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Ok we finally know what's wrong with the AI

FastSlothFastSloth ParisPosts: 132Member

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/threads/ai.79544/#post-1376300

 

Apparently the AI isn't working because it would require work to fix it. And because it's bugged. Genius!

 

"Q: OMG Why AI run away then come back LOL:
A: AI has issues, the 'run away then come back' is a bug, the fail fear check, flee but something doesn't clear good enough and they decide to come back."

 

"Q: ZOMG Why u no make troll and add? U had all dem grafix!
A: We do have the troll, it does have all the graphics and animations. But we want it to pick you up. And doing requires code, a fair amount of code."

 

You don't say, Sebastian Persson..

 

"Q: Why you LIE and say you fix it when U did not NOOBSEB!
A: I did! Every note
in the patchnotes about changes to the AI is indeed a improvement, it's just been a bunch of fairly minor improvements"

 

Reminds me of something:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ntr-pw_6C0

When Sebastian Persson is asked why the product he's being paid for isn't working, he doesn't appologize and gets back to work, he explains why it isn't working - and sucks at that. If he knew what's wrong, he'd be able to fix it. XD Doesn't that say it all?

 

I bet his excuses are longer than the code for the AI.

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Comments

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member

    It's disturbing how he thinks he's in a position to mock the playerbase by mimicking some imaginary "ZOMG U SUX ROFL" speech. He treats his paying customers like spoiled children who don't understand anything and just keep asking stupid questions, which is bizarre given the circumstances.

    SV should be on their fucking knees begging people to keep playing their broken game, instead of talking down to the few people who still support them.

    But it's the way it has always been - before a major patch there's a lot of hype-talk and dev activity on the forums, outlining all the awesomeness to come. Then when the patch finally arrives, underwhelming everyone and breaking everything, there is silence and censorship, threads being removed and people banned for asking legitimate questions, etc.

    Then, when the complaints reach an uncontrollable level, one of the SV guys may stoop to post some "explanation" as to why X and Y is not working as intended, usually ridden with some fake-ass technical jargon to make it look more professional. The fanbois rave and applaud because the glorious leaders deemed them worthy of a reply, while everybody else just frown and wonder how an arrogant-styled "explanation" will actually fix everything that is missing and/or broken.

    Still, people who buy all the bs hype have themselves to blame. Most sensible people were very skeptical about SV's ability to deliver a patch of this magnitude - and as usual, the skeptics were right. Given SV's track record you have to be either extremely stupid, extremely naïve, or extremely brainwashed to expect anything less than a disaster when they attempt to "revolutionize" something.

     

    Edit: Just read the whole thread. I can't believe people actually go out of their way to "help" these guys, putting videos together, posting detailed accounts of AI bugs, etc, as if that would somehow make Sebastian capable of fixing stuff once and for all.

    Isn't it very obvious by now that this guy has no damn clue what he's doing? A professional dev team test their stuff before release, they don't just throw some new code out there and see what happens, letting paying customers do detailed bug reports and quailty testing for them (which still doesn't help ofc). I mean, he coded the damned thing and he still don't know what the problems are?

    Fucking pathetic.

  • LinseshLinsesh SalfordPosts: 14Member

    I still see the same mob behaviour, I still see the same problems with the navigational mesh and pathing, and I still see problems with movement. - and that's probably being overly generous. The AI is in a marginally worse state than it was pre-Awakening, given that it had at least been patched a little up to that point.

     

    I think they took the attitude that their design was sound, but the code wasn't. I believe it was Seb who wrote the old AI code (correct me if I am wrong), so... I don't know *sigh*

     

    The scary thing is that Henrik believes the AI to be revolutionary. Give every actor type a brain of inter-connected neurons, feed them whatever sensor input or messages an actor currently gets, use the state of a few of these neurons to drive any behaviour and evolve for a few hundred generations. That's revolutionary AI. Mortal Online's AI (if it worked) is not only substandard, it's piss-poor  (even worse than The Elder Scrolls).

     

    I'll just stop there, I think.

     

     

  • SaintPhilipSaintPhilip Bree, MIPosts: 713Member
    Originally posted by FastSloth

    http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/threads/ai.79544/#post-1376300

     

    Apparently the AI isn't working because it would require work to fix it. And because it's bugged. Genius!

     

    "Q: OMG Why AI run away then come back LOL:
    A: AI has issues, the 'run away then come back' is a bug, the fail fear check, flee but something doesn't clear good enough and they decide to come back."

     

    "Q: ZOMG Why u no make troll and add? U had all dem grafix!
    A: We do have the troll, it does have all the graphics and animations. But we want it to pick you up. And doing requires code, a fair amount of code."

     

    You don't say, Sebastian Persson..

     

    "Q: Why you LIE and say you fix it when U did not NOOBSEB!
    A: I did! Every note
    in the patchnotes about changes to the AI is indeed a improvement, it's just been a bunch of fairly minor improvements"

     

    Reminds me of something:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ntr-pw_6C0

    When Sebastian Persson is asked why the product he's being paid for isn't working, he doesn't appologize and gets back to work, he explains why it isn't working - and sucks at that. If he knew what's wrong, he'd be able to fix it. XD Doesn't that say it all?

     

    I bet his excuses are longer than the code for the AI.

    That "mock" question and answer post is totally disrespectful- That asshole is making it sound as if its foolish "kids" who keep pestering the Dev team for ridiculous reasons-

    Again, SV should really be ashamed. The way he worded that shows (once again) why this game is a sham and will never , ever work properly (nor did it ever have a chance)

    What an egotistical asshole- And he cant code for shit. Its amature hour and when MO fails Seb will be lucky to have a job flipping burgers.

  • xDayxxDayx St Charles, MOPosts: 712Member
    Its too ambitious of a game for Starvault.   
  • BoldynBoldyn PartillePosts: 265Member
    Originally posted by Biskop

    He treats his paying customers like spoiled children who don't understand anything and just keep asking stupid questions

    Well we all know those don't exist in mmo's...

  • SaintPhilipSaintPhilip Bree, MIPosts: 713Member
    Originally posted by xDayx
    Its too ambitious of a game for Starvault.   

    Yes, but the condescending tone of the main dev (who, consequently cannot code for shit) towards his customers - The way he takes valid concerns (like the AI still not working after YEARS, mobs falling through the world, flying around, etc, etc,) and turns it into a joke that essentially paints anyone asking these questions as a kid who cannot formulate a sentence (and again, he is the MAIN DEV who cannot code...) rather than taking a serious stance, perhaps appoogize and stop making excuses.

    -Anyhow... Games on its last legs and with SVs attitude towards its playerbase NOT IMPROVING as the game does NOT IMPROVE after YEARS of broken everything- its just...pathetic.

  • xDayxxDayx St Charles, MOPosts: 712Member
    Originally posted by SaintPhilip
    Originally posted by xDayx
    Its too ambitious of a game for Starvault.   

    Yes, but the condescending tone of the main dev (who, consequently cannot code for shit) towards his customers - The way he takes valid concerns (like the AI still not working after YEARS, mobs falling through the world, flying around, etc, etc,) and turns it into a joke that essentially paints anyone asking these questions as a kid who cannot formulate a sentence (and again, he is the MAIN DEV who cannot code...) rather than taking a serious stance, perhaps appoogize and stop making excuses.

    -Anyhow... Games on its last legs and with SVs attitude towards its playerbase NOT IMPROVING as the game does NOT IMPROVE after YEARS of broken everything- its just...pathetic.

     (Shrug) I guess its a defense mechanism he is utilizing.

    At this point with me personally I dont really care. I was hoping StarVault added a little more fluff by now and punished reds more but it never happened.

  • WendettaWendetta WellingtonPosts: 30Member
    Originally posted by Linsesh

     

     I believe it was Seb who wrote the old AI code (correct me if I am wrong), so... I don't know *sigh*

     

    No, it was an intern who coded this for extra credits. This was made public years back but many have forgotten this no thanks to the MO Fanboy Army in the least. If you are determined enough you can manually dig it up on MO forumspace here, since the search feature on this site is BS, but not like it matters especially at this point of time. 

     

    And ofcourse the thread + post was deleted on the MOFO in short notice, even though it was Henrik or one of the former Lead community mod who posted it. I dont think a cached copy even exists on google since the MO forums have been changed so many times till now, but you can try searching, again if you are determined enough.

     

    Moral of the story: Interns are better at make half assed games than Starvault can ever be. They should be searching for more interns to play the role of lead programmer and CEO.

    Proud Member of the A.F-D-A. [Anti Fanboy-Defense-Army]Association for a Better Tomorrow or [A.F-D-A.]AfaBT, in short.

  • SHOE788SHOE788 Ankeny, IAPosts: 700Member
    Originally posted by Wendetta
    Originally posted by Linsesh

     

     I believe it was Seb who wrote the old AI code (correct me if I am wrong), so... I don't know *sigh*

     

    No, it was an intern who coded this for extra credits. This was made public years back but many have forgotten this no thanks to the MO Fanboy Army in the least. If you are determined enough you can manually dig it up on MO forumspace here, since the search feature on this site is BS, but not like it matters especially at this point of time. 

     

    And ofcourse the thread + post was deleted on the MOFO in short notice, even though it was Henrik or one of the former Lead community mod who posted it. I dont think a cached copy even exists on google since the MO forums have been changed so many times till now, but you can try searching, again if you are determined enough.

     

    Moral of the story: Interns are better at make half assed games than Starvault can ever be. They should be searching for more interns to play the role of lead programmer and CEO.

    So an intern wrote it and it was bad, then Seb scrapped it and rewrote it and it was bad

    lol

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member
    Originally posted by Boldyn
    Originally posted by Biskop

    He treats his paying customers like spoiled children who don't understand anything and just keep asking stupid questions

    Well we all know those don't exist in mmo's...

    Your point being...?

    Of course there are plenty of idiots asking stupid questions on every game forum, but if you think that's is the case here you need to do your homework. Commited fans (some of them long-term players who have supported the game for years and paid these amateur's salaries) posting legitimate concerns should not be treated like idiots by a lead dev just because he failed to deliver yet again.

  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Fresno, CAPosts: 615Member
    Originally posted by xDayx
    Its too ambitious of a game for Starvault.   

    RealmCrafter would confuse and overwhelm these idiots.

    EA CEO John Riccitiello's on future microtransactions: "When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging."

  • hungerjackhungerjack Miami Beach, FLPosts: 14Member
    Originally posted by Biskop

    It's disturbing how he thinks he's in a position to mock the playerbase by mimicking some imaginary "ZOMG U SUX ROFL" speech. He treats his paying customers like spoiled children who don't understand anything and just keep asking stupid questions, which is bizarre given the circumstances.

    SV should be on their fucking knees begging people to keep playing their broken game, instead of talking down to the few people who still support them.

    But it's the way it has always been - before a major patch there's a lot of hype-talk and dev activity on the forums, outlining all the awesomeness to come. Then when the patch finally arrives, underwhelming everyone and breaking everything, there is silence and censorship, threads being removed and people banned for asking legitimate questions, etc.

    Then, when the complaints reach an uncontrollable level, one of the SV guys may stoop to post some "explanation" as to why X and Y is not working as intended, usually ridden with some fake-ass technical jargon to make it look more professional. The fanbois rave and applaud because the glorious leaders deemed them worthy of a reply, while everybody else just frown and wonder how an arrogant-styled "explanation" will actually fix everything that is missing and/or broken.

    Still, people who buy all the bs hype have themselves to blame. Most sensible people were very skeptical about SV's ability to deliver a patch of this magnitude - and as usual, the skeptics were right. Given SV's track record you have to be either extremely stupid, extremely naïve, or extremely brainwashed to expect anything less than a disaster when they attempt to "revolutionize" something.

     

    Edit: Just read the whole thread. I can't believe people actually go out of their way to "help" these guys, putting videos together, posting detailed accounts of AI bugs, etc, as if that would somehow make Sebastian capable of fixing stuff once and for all.

    Isn't it very obvious by now that this guy has no damn clue what he's doing? A professional dev team test their stuff before release, they don't just throw some new code out there and see what happens, letting paying customers do detailed bug reports and quailty testing for them (which still doesn't help ofc). I mean, he coded the damned thing and he still don't know what the problems are?

    Fucking pathetic.

    Wow you hit the nail on the head!

  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member

    Incompetence?

     

     

    /end thread

  • argiropargirop AthensPosts: 300Member
    After all this time around SV on and off in MO i m convinced that bugs will driven out of the game obly if theres a possibility for them to die from natural causes, old age or accidents. No one is expecting anymore from SV to fix the game.
  • SaintPhilipSaintPhilip Bree, MIPosts: 713Member

    So....Some folks on the thread linked have also felt the attitude of Seb (making fun of the supporters of the game who are seeking the answer as to why basic systems still do not work after 2+ years and untold amounts of money) and Seb said he was essentially "making a joke..."

    -If it was a joke it was in VERY BAD taste...

    To look at it a different way- Imagine a Chef who has worked in an establishment for over 2 years. The Buisness looked very promising and for the first few Months the lines of people waiting to get a table stretched around the Block. Yes the food was burned or undercooked, yes the portions were small, yes the service kind of sucked, yes it was very expensive- BUT the type of food they were serving was something we were promised could be found nowhere else... So we ate there, and continued to eat there in hopes that the chef and the service would improve with time (After all- This food was supposed to really be something special and unique and we wanted to give the Chef the time needed to Master the culinary skill of this cuisine...)

    A few Months later (with no impovements to the food and service) the complaints start rolling in. The Critics have given this eatery bad reviews. The lines  of folks waiting for a table are gone. The entire place is now half empty... The Chef and the Customers who are left begin making fun of the people and critics by saying "They have no refined taste like WE do...They should just eat at Mcdonalds since..."

    A couple YEARS later (...now) the entire place is mostly empty. Rats and Roaches scurry across the floor. The paint is peeling, the bathroom filthy, the carpet hasnt been vaccumed in months, the Kitchen is a mess, the waitstaff are rude and unkempt and the food has gotten worse...Yes worse.

    The Chef still cannot make a Hamburger properly, still burn steaks, undercooks noodles , burns water and generally makes unedible food in tiny portions for TOP DOLLAR...

    His remaining few customers want answers.

    "We supported you for years" they say.... "Why is our food still coming out so horrible? Why is the waitstaff so rude? Why ? We have politly been telling you for years what is wrong- We have given you time to fix these things...We WANT to love the food you cook. We WANT to believe your promises...What is going on here???"

    The Chef then makes fun of them by replying " Blah, blah, crying about why I burn food and wait people is rude, blah blah... I tell you why. It because good food takes time..."

    -Then he says he was joking...

    The joke wasnt funny since he has ran this place into the ground and ripped his customers off at every turn with sub par and undercooked shit thrown on a plate.

    -EDIT- The Buisness needs a complete restructure from managment on down the line. It will never happen (should have happened long ago) and with SV's stellar customer support and the way they handle complaints- Its just a matter of time and they will be Unemployed- Thank God.

     

  • JakdstripperJakdstripper logan lake, BCPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon

    we have always known what is wrong with the AI: it doesn't work because of crappy code.

     

    wake up dudes. SV does not have good coders. never had, never will. it was a incredibly ambitious project even if they had had professionals. what the heck do you think happens if you try and build a race car from scratch? it most likely wont work, and if it does it wont work worth a damn.

     

    RIP Mortal Online.

  • TsaboHavocTsaboHavoc PinheiralPosts: 351Member

    i remember i saw a guy here posting that codding is like building, "if the foundations are fked up u have to start all over again".

    MO foundations are screwed and its clear that the game is beyond repair, even worse, beyond repair in SV hands.

  • olepiolepi Austin, TXPosts: 1,150Member Uncommon

    I tried MO in the beginning, for about 5 minutes. 

    The thing that gets me about this is that SV would release something that is obviously broken. As a software developer, I know there are three main stages of design:

    1) alpha -- each independent piece of code works, at least to some extent. None of it has been tested in the full context, but unit tests pass.

    2) beta -- the whole game is put together, and each unit is then tested in the full context. Since each unit passed alpha, the only real problems should be coming from integration problems, not individual unit problems.

    3) release -- the whole game is together, and has passed beta tests. Everything is supposed to work.

    It seems SV releases right after alpha (or even possibly before). They apparently are counting on their paying customers to do beta testing, since it appears obvious that SV doesn't test the game themselves.

    Hard to believe someone could stay in business for years doing that ....

    ------------
    RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.

  • Darth_OsorDarth_Osor Mt Laurel, NJPosts: 1,089Member

    Hmm let me get this straight...

    1) Dev of failing game holding on by a thread makes a response mocking customers.

    2) Thread goes nearly two pages of fanboys thanking dev for response.

    3) Two customers who finally call out dev for his attitude are promptly attacked by fanboys.

    My God...this is hilarious. 

  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by Darth_Osor

    Hmm let me get this straight...

    1) Dev of failing game holding on by a thread makes a response mocking customers.

    2) Thread goes nearly two pages of fanboys thanking dev for response.

    3) Two customers who finally call out dev for his attitude are promptly attacked by fanboys.

    My God...this is hilarious. 

    Its the only entertaining part of MOrtal Online.

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by Darth_Osor

    Hmm let me get this straight...

    1) Dev of failing game holding on by a thread makes a response mocking customers.

    2) Thread goes nearly two pages of fanboys thanking dev for response.

    3) Two customers who finally call out dev for his attitude are promptly attacked by fanboys.

    My God...this is hilarious. 

    Its the only entertaining part of MOrtal Online.

    I find it quite sad actually. Those brainwashed people still, after they've been lied to and treated like idiots for years, defend SV's every stupid move and attack anyone who dare voice a different opinion.

    Sebastian is right when he says the thread has derailed - but not for the reasons he thinks. MOFO has really turned into some bizarre variant of Stockholm syndrome by now.

  • SaintPhilipSaintPhilip Bree, MIPosts: 713Member
    Originally posted by Biskop
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by Darth_Osor

    Hmm let me get this straight...

    1) Dev of failing game holding on by a thread makes a response mocking customers.

    2) Thread goes nearly two pages of fanboys thanking dev for response.

    3) Two customers who finally call out dev for his attitude are promptly attacked by fanboys.

    My God...this is hilarious. 

    Its the only entertaining part of MOrtal Online.

    I find it quite sad actually. Those brainwashed people still, after they've been lied to and treated like idiots for years, defend SV's every stupid move and attack anyone who dare voice a different opinion.

    Sebastian is right when he says the thread has derailed - but not for the reasons he thinks. MOFO has really turned into some bizarre variant of Stockholm syndrome by now.

    ^This...All the way.^

     

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    People still play this?    Seriously. Don't allow yourself to be treated that way and just quit.
  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by fenistil
    People still play this?   

    Many dont, but they still pay their subs.  image

  • hungerjackhungerjack Miami Beach, FLPosts: 14Member
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by fenistil
    People still play this?   

    Many dont, but they still pay their subs.  image

    Foolish people with money!

    This is the problem with MO, SV has horrible work ethics but as long as they have players who will keep multiple accounts sub they will continue to produce the minimal progress.

    They only seem to be motivated to actually progress when there are hard low pop low sub times like now.

    I noticed the same with Adventurine.

    No offense but is this a Greek and Swedish thing????

    These two companies seem to have absolute horrible work and business ethics.

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