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Which upcoming MMO don't have a cash shop?

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Comments

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by VultureSkull

    We the customer have driven the market into creating cash shops and it was not the other away around

    what?

    The cash shops in games came directly from Asian games who had it, not a single person in the West asked for this.

    And as far as people buying old, not everyone buys gold in games, not everyone uses a credit card to go buy gold from some chinese farmers who will probably end up stealing your credit card.

    Now it's our fault? Not the fault of the developers trying to nickle and dime every last penny from the consumer?

    You can't be serious.

    I know so many people whined and complained and protested SoE and many straight up LEFT Everquest when they implemented a cash shop, but you're trying to blame the players?

     

    It's also no longer F2P games, many P2P games either have a cash shop from the start and plenty who didn't got one down the road, usually under protest from the players.

    It's one thing to say you don't mind cash shop, it's another to try to blame the players instead of the developers. MANY players have said no to cash shops, in many games the majority of the players said no, but the developers did it anyway. Many P2P games have gotten cash shop after players said no, because the developers caved in to either greed or pressure from the executives. Don't blame the players for that stuff.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,275Member Uncommon
    TESO?
  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,762Member Uncommon

    I was hoping new MMO's coming up like PS 2 would not have a CS as they are so pvp orientated. But when you realise that in B3 you can buy a "premimum" status, you see that paying after launch for gameplay altering items is rife in the games industry.

    Cash shops are not going anywhere soon as they are seen as a possible savour, I regard this as shortsighted and misguided. 

  • ice-vortexice-vortex Xenia, OHPosts: 951Member

    To those that said Darkfall won't ever have a cash shop.

     

    Will Unholy Wars stick with the original subscription model, or has any thought been given to microtransactions, etc.?

    We're sticking with the original subscription model for now. We feel that it's tricky to take such a competitive PvP game to free-to-play microtransactions, seeing that it's essential you offer a level playing field for everyone, something we're determined to preserve with Darkfall: Unholy Wars.

    This doesn't mean we're not looking at microtransactions. We're very interested if we can get it right. Our main objective right now is to get the game out. After that, we're going to put resources into designing a microtransaction model that works for us and that our players are happy with. We expect to learn a lot from our Korean partners at Mgame, and I'm positive that we'll need to innovate heavily if it's going to be perfect for Darkfall: Unholy Wars.


    We're not going to force it just because everyone seems to be hopping on the microtransaction bandwagon. We understand that more players would try out the game, but they could also end up having to spend more money.

     

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10/09/aventurine-on-darkfalls-new-ui-payment-models-and-more/

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,962Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    With that attitude, I think we are better off without you than trying to explain to you why you are wrong. You'd do yourself a favor by viewing cash shops more openly.

    ... as in, be more willing to open your wallet, as often as possible.

    That's pretty much what Cash Shops, and the games built around them, are designed to do, after all.

    Anyway, back on topic. As was noted, Rift doesn't have a cash shop, though that's not an upcoming game. Darkfall Unholy wars won't have one, so far as we know. Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn won't (again, unless they announce otherwise, which I don't expect they will).

    There's probably others that I'm just not aware of.

    Well, some of them are more about paying than others. EQ2 is more about paying than LOTRO which in turn is more about it than DDO. There are after all layers in hell.

    But yes, companies like EA and Activision dont add cashshops to make a game cheaper, they want more of our money.

    And it sucks that there arent more alternatives without cashshops, it would be best for us if we could choose between P2P with no cashshop, B2P with only cosmetic stuff and F2P with full shop. Adding cashshops to P2P is really what is killing of that payment model.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by VultureSkull

    We the customer have driven the market into creating cash shops and it was not the other away around

    what?

    The cash shops in games came directly from Asian games who had it, not a single person in the West asked for this.

    And as far as people buying old, not everyone buys gold in games, not everyone uses a credit card to go buy gold from some chinese farmers who will probably end up stealing your credit card.

    Now it's our fault? Not the fault of the developers trying to nickle and dime every last penny from the consumer?

    You can't be serious.

    I know so many people whined and complained and protested SoE and many straight up LEFT Everquest when they implemented a cash shop, but you're trying to blame the players?

    You don't see the contradiction in your statement because you have accepted your personal perception as fact.

    • "not a single person in the West asked for this"
    • "not everyone buys gold in games"
    • "so many people complained" "many straight up left"
    • "the fault of the developers trying to nickle and dime every last penny from the consumer"

     

    Well, wait a second here. You say players don't want this and they aren't buying game gold and they are leaving the games because of this option, but then go on to say the companies are trying to "nickel and dime" the playerbase. Are you saying MMO gamers (except you, of course) are all extremely stupid and they will spend money they don't want to spend on things they don't want in games they don't like?

    If they don't want this, don't buy game gold and are leaving the games, how are the MMO companies making money?

    You're suggesting that the game devs are manipulative and greedy, but then suggesting they will use a business model that the audience doesn't like or want. There's no logic to your reasoning there.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by VultureSkull

    We the customer have driven the market into creating cash shops and it was not the other away around

    what?

    The cash shops in games came directly from Asian games who had it, not a single person in the West asked for this.

    And as far as people buying old, not everyone buys gold in games, not everyone uses a credit card to go buy gold from some chinese farmers who will probably end up stealing your credit card.

    Now it's our fault? Not the fault of the developers trying to nickle and dime every last penny from the consumer?

    You can't be serious.

    I know so many people whined and complained and protested SoE and many straight up LEFT Everquest when they implemented a cash shop, but you're trying to blame the players?

    You don't see the contradiction in your statement because you have accepted your personal perception as fact.

    • "not a single person in the West asked for this"
    • "not everyone buys gold in games"
    • "so many people complained" "many straight up left"
    • "the fault of the developers trying to nickle and dime every last penny from the consumer"

     

    Well, wait a second here. You say players don't want this and they aren't buying game gold and they are leaving the games because of this option, but then go on to say the companies are trying to "nickel and dime" the playerbase. Are you saying MMO gamers (except you, of course) are all extremely stupid and they will spend money they don't want to spend on things they don't want in games they don't like?

    If they don't want this, don't buy game gold and are leaving the games, how are the MMO companies making money?

    You're suggesting that the game devs are manipulative and greedy, but then suggesting they will use a business model that the audience doesn't like or want. There's no logic to your reasoning there.

     

    Habituation and manipulation can go a long way to make people do things that they wouldn't have done without those methods.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon

    Cash shops are fundamentally bad for game design in the genre, far past P2W which is usually seen as the only bugbear in the received wisdom of many.

    Look at GW2...I love it as a solo player RPG, it has delivered the value of it's box cost to me and I am still playing it, BUT anyone that can't see the blatant design choices in that game even that are intended to manipulate you into the cash shop is in some kind of denial. It informs almost every design decision made in the game, alongside E-Sports PvP, and in not one case for the better. 

     

    I could also go into, at length, about how pay to achieve in these things effects their basic natures, moving them from 'games' and into the more vague 'entertainment product' area and why this is bad, but that may be a different thread. I could also talk about their impact on community building as they create a transient player base, but again... maybe another time.

     

    Is any game actually made 'better' by a cash shop? Has it as a model actually made any game more 'fun'? Or has it simply tapped into greed, laziness and compulsive 'addiction', the same way as loading chocolate bars at a supermarket checkout does in order to generate *more* profit at the consumer's expense?

     

     

  • LawlmonsterLawlmonster Dallas, TXPosts: 953Member Uncommon

    The overlying problem with cash shops isn't that they're an unethical platform for providing profit or stabilization, despite several instances in which they've been presented that way, but that they manifest artifical obstacles for developers to program buyable solutions to bypass. How that makes you feel depends entirely on how you perceive your time playing games and what it is you're looking for, but I'm an art before commerce kind of guy. I like the integrity of a project to be wholely based upon the process of creation, without the necessity to design for financial success. That doesn't mean the two are exclusive from one another, or should be. It's fairly obvious that most studios are forced to blance the two, so I wouldn't dispute that budgeting and management are a large fraction of what promotes success.

     

    Subscription games have their own problems with monetization and artificial obstacles, as many of you would be sure to notify me. What's in it for a developer to provide constant updates for content or technicality when they've a fixed income at the end of every month? In order to maintain subscriptions, developers are forced to produce to keep players interested. I'm fairly certain there are cases which this isn't true, but when looking at games like WoW, AOC, or Rift -- especially Rift -- it's proved to be in the best interest of designers of subscription games to constantly find new ways to make the experience worth the price.

     

    Now consider that  F2P games can thrive on a minority of frequently purchasing players, which makes the retention of membership or long term expansion less vital. What do designers create in this situation, to prompt the continuation of profit? Content isn't necessarily as important if maintaining players can be placed on the back burner, which doesn't mean it's completely ignored, so how do they convince players to spend money? In the istance of games like Allods, which is probably one of the most unethical forms of implementation for a cash shop, designers hinder the experience of players who aren't paying by removing helpful features, or creating artificial obstacles like reduced experience gain and inventory space, while conveniently providing priced solutions.

     

    So when I say F2P games are inherently flawed, I'm not saying they're bad, or particularly unethical. Guild Wars 2 seems to be doing the cash shop model of B2P with respect for the player experience, which I can appreciate. More options is always a good thing, but F2P games are flawed from conception. That is to say, any game designed to provide a frustrating or less adequate experience which can be removed by paying, particularly under the guise of being "free to play", was not designed with the player in mind, for the player. And again, this all depends upon which side of the art versus commerce debate you've seated yourself. Obviously, a game or project designed with flaws to frustrate or coerce players into paying was not designed specifically with artistic integrity in mind.

     

    I also posted this response in my blog, so feel free to let me know what you think.

    "This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by Hurvart
    I think there is no CS in Rift. There will be a new expansion soon. I hope more developers understand that some players refuse to play CS games.  We need good games that are worth playing.

    There is a CS shop in Rift - it is on their website. You can buy mounts, etc.

     

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by Loke666

    And it sucks that there arent more alternatives without cashshops, it would be best for us if we could choose between P2P with no cashshop, B2P with only cosmetic stuff and F2P with full shop. Adding cashshops to P2P is really what is killing of that payment model.

    Agreed.

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member

    I have a feeling there will be more games with CS to offset the lowering of sub fees or no sub fees.

     

    It is not inherently bad - far from it, but it does make people feel elitist when they can get all the shiny armor you don't. THat is the inherent flaw.

     

    I like GW2 and have not used the CS yet.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Lawlmonster

    The overlying problem with cash shops isn't that they're an unethical platform for providing profit or stabilization, despite several instances in which they've been presented that way, but that they manifest artifical obstacles for developers to program buyable solutions to bypass. How that makes you feel depends entirely on how you perceive your time playing games and what it is you're looking for, but I'm an art before commerce kind of guy. I like the integrity of a project to be wholely based upon the process of creation, without the necessity to design for financial success. That doesn't mean the two are exclusive from one another, or should be. It's fairly obvious that most studios are forced to blance the two, so I wouldn't dispute that budgeting and management are a large fraction of what promotes success.

     

    Subscription games have their own problems with monetization and artificial obstacles, as many of you would be sure to notify me. What's in it for a developer to provide constant updates for content or technicality when they've a fixed income at the end of every month? In order to maintain subscriptions, developers are forced to produce to keep players interested. I'm fairly certain there are cases which this isn't true, but when looking at games like WoW, AOC, or Rift -- especially Rift -- it's proved to be in the best interest of designers of subscription games to constantly find new ways to make the experience worth the price.

     

    Now consider that  F2P games can thrive on a minority of frequently purchasing players, which makes the retention of membership or long term expansion less vital. What do designers create in this situation, to prompt the continuation of profit? Content isn't necessarily as important if maintaining players can be placed on the back burner, which doesn't mean it's completely ignored, so how do they convince players to spend money? In the istance of games like Allods, which is probably one of the most unethical forms of implementation for a cash shop, designers hinder the experience of players who aren't paying by removing helpful features, or creating artificial obstacles like reduced experience gain and inventory space, while conveniently providing priced solutions.

     

    So when I say F2P games are inherently flawed, I'm not saying they're bad, or particularly unethical. Guild Wars 2 seems to be doing the cash shop model of B2P with respect for the player experience, which I can appreciate. More options is always a good thing, but F2P games are flawed from conception. That is to say, any game designed to provide a frustrating or less adequate experience which can be removed by paying, particularly under the guise of being "free to play", was not designed with the player in mind, for the player. And again, this all depends upon which side of the art versus commerce debate you've seated yourself. Obviously, a game or project designed with flaws to frustrate or coerce players into paying was not designed specifically with artistic integrity in mind.

     

    I also posted this response in my blog, so feel free to let me know what you think.

    I'd imagine a person like you would give their unreserved support only B2P games, possibly with a strictly cosmetic and service oriented CS.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by VultureSkull

    We the customer have driven the market into creating cash shops and it was not the other away around

    what?

    The cash shops in games came directly from Asian games who had it, not a single person in the West asked for this.

    And as far as people buying old, not everyone buys gold in games, not everyone uses a credit card to go buy gold from some chinese farmers who will probably end up stealing your credit card.

    Now it's our fault? Not the fault of the developers trying to nickle and dime every last penny from the consumer?

    You can't be serious.

    I know so many people whined and complained and protested SoE and many straight up LEFT Everquest when they implemented a cash shop, but you're trying to blame the players?

    You don't see the contradiction in your statement because you have accepted your personal perception as fact.

    • "not a single person in the West asked for this"
    • "not everyone buys gold in games"
    • "so many people complained" "many straight up left"
    • "the fault of the developers trying to nickle and dime every last penny from the consumer"

     

    Well, wait a second here. You say players don't want this and they aren't buying game gold and they are leaving the games because of this option, but then go on to say the companies are trying to "nickel and dime" the playerbase. Are you saying MMO gamers (except you, of course) are all extremely stupid and they will spend money they don't want to spend on things they don't want in games they don't like?

    If they don't want this, don't buy game gold and are leaving the games, how are the MMO companies making money?

    You're suggesting that the game devs are manipulative and greedy, but then suggesting they will use a business model that the audience doesn't like or want. There's no logic to your reasoning there.

     

    I see many posts of you and most don't make sense.

    I said NOT EVERYONE buys gold, and MANY disagreed with P2P made into cash shop games. I didn't say EVERYONE.

    And because some use the cash shop does not mean EVERYONE agrees with this.

    How is that concept so hard to grasp, jesus.

    Sorry if my post comes over harch but I have argued with people like you before, who purpously refuse to see any logic in someone's post even though the original post is crystal clear, arguing back and forth. 1 explanation for you, not 2, I have no time for this.

  • LawlmonsterLawlmonster Dallas, TXPosts: 953Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Lawlmonster
    TL;DR

    I'd imagine a person like you would give their unreserved support only B2P games, possibly with a strictly cosmetic and service oriented CS.

    I certainly think it's the most beneficial platform for players, though I'm more than willing to pay a subscription fee for a game before I spend my time with something that's made profitable by microtransactions. Like I mentioned, I have a problem with commerce and finance calling shotgun over art in the caddy wagon of success.

    "This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by VultureSkull

    We the customer have driven the market into creating cash shops and it was not the other away around

    what?

    The cash shops in games came directly from Asian games who had it, not a single person in the West asked for this.

    And as far as people buying old, not everyone buys gold in games, not everyone uses a credit card to go buy gold from some chinese farmers who will probably end up stealing your credit card.

    Now it's our fault? Not the fault of the developers trying to nickle and dime every last penny from the consumer?

    You can't be serious.

    I know so many people whined and complained and protested SoE and many straight up LEFT Everquest when they implemented a cash shop, but you're trying to blame the players?

    You don't see the contradiction in your statement because you have accepted your personal perception as fact.

    • "not a single person in the West asked for this"
    • "not everyone buys gold in games"
    • "so many people complained" "many straight up left"
    • "the fault of the developers trying to nickle and dime every last penny from the consumer"

     

    Well, wait a second here. You say players don't want this and they aren't buying game gold and they are leaving the games because of this option, but then go on to say the companies are trying to "nickel and dime" the playerbase. Are you saying MMO gamers (except you, of course) are all extremely stupid and they will spend money they don't want to spend on things they don't want in games they don't like?

    If they don't want this, don't buy game gold and are leaving the games, how are the MMO companies making money?

    You're suggesting that the game devs are manipulative and greedy, but then suggesting they will use a business model that the audience doesn't like or want. There's no logic to your reasoning there.

     

    I see many posts of you and most don't make sense.

    I said NOT EVERYONE buys gold, and MANY disagreed with P2P made into cash shop games. I didn't say EVERYONE.

    And because some use the cash shop does not mean EVERYONE agrees with this.

    How is that concept so hard to grasp, jesus.

    Sorry if my post comes over harch but I have argued with people like you before, who purpously refuse to see any logic in someone's post even though the original post is crystal clear, arguing back and forth. 1 explanation for you, not 2, I have no time for this.

    Actually, your response to the statement that this is customer driven was to say the customer did not want this. To address your "I didnt say EVERYONE" point, your exact reply was "not a single person in the West asked for this."

    I'm sorry that many posts of me don't make sense to you. That your contention is to say "I don't have time for this" rather than to try to understand is disappointing. However, it doesn't change the fact that it is an illogical leap to say the companies are greedy and then try to suggest they are using a monetization system that the target audience is most resistant to.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    Cash shops are fundamentally bad for game design in the genre...

    Can't that be said about subscriptions, as well?

    A monthly subscription revenue could just as easily be tied to the level/faction/raid/gear grind-based game design of the majority of MMOs.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    Cash shops are fundamentally bad for game design in the genre...

    Can't that be said about subscriptions, as well?

    A monthly subscription revenue could just as easily be tied to the level/faction/raid/gear grind-based game design of the majority of MMOs.

     

    I am not talking about retention mechanics here specifically, because you are right, most of these make for pretty lackluster game play whatever the model.

    Cash shops bring a whole raft of required bad design elements into the game on top of retention systems though.

     

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

    i dont blame asian influence for cash shops

     

    mmos have been trying to raise more revenue for years

     

    SOE had something similar to D3 Real money AH back in 2006 (Station Exchange)

    except it included selling characters too

     

    even before some mmos added Cash shop, you had the spinoff Trading Card games

    where players could spend hundreds of dollars on ebay for loot card ingame items

     

    card game items like WOW Spectral Tiger mount ($1000.00)  or EQ2 Shrink Cloak ($100.00)

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Reins_of_the_Swift_Spectral_Tiger

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    Cash shops are fundamentally bad for game design in the genre...

    Can't that be said about subscriptions, as well?

    A monthly subscription revenue could just as easily be tied to the level/faction/raid/gear grind-based game design of the majority of MMOs.

    I am not talking about retention mechanics here specifically, because you are right, most of these make for pretty lackluster game play whatever the model.

    Cash shops bring a whole raft of required bad design elements into the game on top of retention systems though.

    I guess I can agree there. With the way many cash shops are designed, it's hard to tell whether some devs are exploiting the system to its fullest (gachapon, for example) or they're simply just trying to embrace something they don't fully understand yet (o hai, monocle).

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    Cash shops are not inherently bad but cash shops comes in many forms.

     

    Some compliment gameplay and others make it a near necessity to use, in order for you to feel you get a complete experience and the complete fun you can have with the title. The latter is one of the evils of the concept

     

    Some of you are very defensive about cash shops in its current form. A stance you probably wouldn't have taken 10 years ago, but it seems, the line crossed, is moved every year where people are a bit more accepting of what developers are trying to push through. They are very sneaky about it too. You don't get it all at once. It starts with a little experimentation, going a bit further than your competitor.

     

    Believe me the cash shops are still in its infancy concept wise. They have not even begun the nickle and diming yet. If somebody comes along and want to take a stance against this development, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Some of you really need to check yourselves, if you think your opinions are the 'right ones' and everyone elses is wrong. If you support this development then more power to you, I won't argue with you. I just hope for your sake you don't sit on message boards 10 years from now, complaining how you can't break a wind without having to pay 5 bucks for it. You supported this and helped show the way

     

     

  • popsicleFTWpopsicleFTW bla, LAPosts: 4Member

    I also think that cash shops can be used in the right way but generally speaking they are not for many reasons that are quite obvious.  I once played a f2p game( I no longer play ) which I was spending average $50/month and even with that much money that I spent within amonth it was impossible to compete with many other players who spend a lot more.

    So that brings up two issues, one is that the players are stupid enough to pay ourageous amounts of money if they can justify playing it in their own mind.  The other is that the creators have no issues with a person paying $300+/month to play a free game.

    Don't get me wrong I am always happy to pay for playing a game that I like to play which gives me entertainment but after seeing so many cash shop games that can easily be classified as p2w to p2hf( pay to have fun ) it really leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth that I just can't get rid of.

    I have no idea what if at all there is a solution to this issue but I am more an more in favor of monthly subscriptions as a result of this.  And I think that over time those people who pay outrageous amounts of money will come to this same realization and the trend of cash shop games might go back to being monthly memberships.  But that is just speculation and I have no idea how things will turn out in 5 years from now because there will always be more suckers as the new flock of gamers emerge from the next generations.

    Cute rpg with pets Candy Sugar Kingdom

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,762Member Uncommon

    "There are after all layers in hell."

    Indeed there are, which of us has not had to sup with the devil to play a MMO they like the look of?

    - - -

    We have consistently on this site said no to cash shops. It has made no difference.

    Many players on official forums have also said no. It has made no difference.

    So I do think it is true that against the wishes of most players cash shops have been forced on us.

    In answer to the manipulative greedy devs question, you do know that gaming companies are run by businessmen who call the shots? It is corporate mentality that loves the idea of a cash shop and they see them as a saviour at a time when MMO subscriptions are not sustainable in even the medium term. The fact that players will not play a game because of a cash shop or leave early does not seem to be a concern.

    We complain but do nothing. It is like pre-order, we know that pre-order allows companies to get away with releasing a incomplete game. We complain about it, but we still buy pre-oreder. I don't btw, but I have played in games with a cash shop.

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by worldalpha
    Sorry?!  F2P is the only model I think that can work for my game.  If I thought every player would pay $20 for it and I could make it viable, then I'd do it.

    I have no problem with F2P, just on't want a cash shop.

     

    if they can get financially stable by other means - like using real-life products in game, advertizing, etc, i'm fine with that.

     

    F2P without a cash shop would be as Free to play as it gets.

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  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    Players in the West have been complaining about the subscription model for years. The fans of GW2 were triumphant in declaring the sub model as "finally dead". Countless posts on these forums have celebrated the demise of the subscription model. When TSW was about to launch, the forum had many posts proclaiming that they wouldn't be playing the game, because it was a subscription-only game.

     

    Nowhere on the internet in any gaming forums have I seem an overwhelming support for subscription-model games. Quite the contrary.

     

    It's no wonder that game developers have listened to the majority of their customers. However, those developers still have to make a profit selling games, else they may as well use their talents to build social media apps or accounting applications. So the Cash Shop was born.

     

    If you don't want to pay a subscription and don't want a Cash Shop, then the only way a game developer can make money is to sell you a box copy. That means they will earn the same from a MMO as they would make from building a single-player game. Given that MMO's cost 2 to 3 times more money to develop than SPG's, that is not going to happen.

     

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