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Human behavior and why force grouping doesn't work

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  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by Deleted User

    I will state one thing,

     

    For some people, the solo-friendly environment that breeds non-cooperation will lead their only social interaction to be anti-social.

    Either that, or perhaps all the idiocy and youth on the internet makes me want to /wrist. At least socially.

     

    I am a very nice, friendly, positive person IRL. I am also logical, rational, and confident...with little tolerance for stupidity, hatred, or arrogance. On most MMORPG's, the only thing I want to do to other people is to make them suffer (PK PK PK!). If there is no FFA PvP, then I will do my best to enter PvP with them and repeatedly shut them down over, and over, and over. Then I /tell "Have you learned your lesson yet kid? Apologize and I'll stop making it to where you can't play the game anymore."

    Facerolling, steamrolling, and repeatedly spawn camping jerks, trolls, or any other anti-social kid is my favorite thing to do. I get a real sense of justice out of it. Regardless of their ego, I put them down. If they want to belittle strangers, I can successfully step in and make them shut up or humiliate them repeatedly if they keep talking. One of the things I"m most grateful for when it comes to video games (besides them merely existing and my having enough wealth to acquire access to them) is my skill in any genre, and the ability to (typically within hours, up to a few days) learn enough to faceroll anyone who insults or attacks innocent people. I love making people rage quit when they were so arrogant as to tell a newer player "wow you suck newb, do the right thing and go kill yourself."

     

    What other social interaction is there? I am so good at these EZ-MODE mmorpg's, that I can literally solo all of the content. If I can't solo it because it's group-required, I can multi-box 5+ versions of the game and steamroll through the dungeon without stopping with a full Tank + Healer + DPS DPS DPS group all composed of me. (Yea, I've been gaming for so long, and these games so easy, I kindof get bored and multi-box like insanity just to get a challenge...not to mention pushing my hardware/scripting abilities to the max!).

     

    Forced grouping and forced cooperation (or a common enemy, like Realm Pride) would actually give me a reason to treat others with favor and friendship. I'd have more to say than "WTB retard free Society" or "Man, these kids make me rethink the evils of genocide."

    I enjoy trolling the trolls, owning the arrogant, putting down those who belittle others, etc. It makes me feel like a vigilante, a superhero, a defender of the innocent. Especially with such a serious and heavy anti-bully stance, I love to bully the bullies. It allows me to show these kids (who are half of the time full grown adults, which is truly pathetic or sometimes sad) that just because "it's the internet" doesn't mean you can pick on others, say harmful things, wish others to die, or not consider the fact other people have feelings online and the people they are beckoning to suicide are actually real human beings.

    I don't wish harm on anyone- but a humble slap in the face is appropriate for some of these spoiled psychopaths that walk through the halls of their dermatory, trying so desperately to get laid, drunk, or some other form of hedonism that it's all they want to talk about in VOIP-- something that's a requirement for professional PvP. (Soap box rant on VOIP slipped in here, but honestly I'm tired of being unable to PvP in some games or types of gameplay because VOIP is a requirement, simply for the fact that I do NOT want to know what happened on last night's episode of Family Guy, and why you thought it was so funny when you were high while whining to your fat girlfriend that you never get sex.)

     

    Bitter much? Only online, where the filth of the world gathers to spew its seed all over the face of what could be the sliver of integrity our species is capable of. Or...maybe I'm just exhausted at the stupidity, close-mindedness, and perversely foul breath that results when a 20-something male speaks what he is REALLY thinking, with all 2% brainpower struggling to activate.

    Pot calling the kettle black? You don't think you sound arrogant in your post talking about how great you are, and calling people kids when you have no clue how old they may be until they tell you? If you're really so great, you would be wise and just rise above the rabble without needing to draw attention to your greatness. People will just see it and honor you for it.

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by m0lly
    Originally posted by Magiknight

    The OP makes me sick.  "I wont talk to someone unless I want something from them."  You don't even have to speak to someone in an MMO with forced grouping if you don't want to. 

     

    It is very generous of the person who started the thread to inform us that forced grouping runs counter to human nature and would never work in an MMO.  The only problem is that Everquest, FFXI, and a handful of other MMOs with forced grouping was the rule at one time. 

    means you. you dont need to speak behalf of all of us.

    I think this is the second time I've had to ask this on this thread.  WTF does this mean????

  • AccountDeleted12341AccountDeleted12341 Houston, TXPosts: 351Member
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by Deleted User

    I will state one thing,

     

    For some people, the solo-friendly environment that breeds non-cooperation will lead their only social interaction to be anti-social.

    Either that, or perhaps all the idiocy and youth on the internet makes me want to /wrist. At least socially.

     

    I am a very nice, friendly, positive person IRL. I am also logical, rational, and confident...with little tolerance for stupidity, hatred, or arrogance. On most MMORPG's, the only thing I want to do to other people is to make them suffer (PK PK PK!). If there is no FFA PvP, then I will do my best to enter PvP with them and repeatedly shut them down over, and over, and over. Then I /tell "Have you learned your lesson yet kid? Apologize and I'll stop making it to where you can't play the game anymore."

    Facerolling, steamrolling, and repeatedly spawn camping jerks, trolls, or any other anti-social kid is my favorite thing to do. I get a real sense of justice out of it. Regardless of their ego, I put them down. If they want to belittle strangers, I can successfully step in and make them shut up or humiliate them repeatedly if they keep talking. One of the things I"m most grateful for when it comes to video games (besides them merely existing and my having enough wealth to acquire access to them) is my skill in any genre, and the ability to (typically within hours, up to a few days) learn enough to faceroll anyone who insults or attacks innocent people. I love making people rage quit when they were so arrogant as to tell a newer player "wow you suck newb, do the right thing and go kill yourself."

     

    What other social interaction is there? I am so good at these EZ-MODE mmorpg's, that I can literally solo all of the content. If I can't solo it because it's group-required, I can multi-box 5+ versions of the game and steamroll through the dungeon without stopping with a full Tank + Healer + DPS DPS DPS group all composed of me. (Yea, I've been gaming for so long, and these games so easy, I kindof get bored and multi-box like insanity just to get a challenge...not to mention pushing my hardware/scripting abilities to the max!).

     

    Forced grouping and forced cooperation (or a common enemy, like Realm Pride) would actually give me a reason to treat others with favor and friendship. I'd have more to say than "WTB retard free Society" or "Man, these kids make me rethink the evils of genocide."

    I enjoy trolling the trolls, owning the arrogant, putting down those who belittle others, etc. It makes me feel like a vigilante, a superhero, a defender of the innocent. Especially with such a serious and heavy anti-bully stance, I love to bully the bullies. It allows me to show these kids (who are half of the time full grown adults, which is truly pathetic or sometimes sad) that just because "it's the internet" doesn't mean you can pick on others, say harmful things, wish others to die, or not consider the fact other people have feelings online and the people they are beckoning to suicide are actually real human beings.

    I don't wish harm on anyone- but a humble slap in the face is appropriate for some of these spoiled psychopaths that walk through the halls of their dermatory, trying so desperately to get laid, drunk, or some other form of hedonism that it's all they want to talk about in VOIP-- something that's a requirement for professional PvP. (Soap box rant on VOIP slipped in here, but honestly I'm tired of being unable to PvP in some games or types of gameplay because VOIP is a requirement, simply for the fact that I do NOT want to know what happened on last night's episode of Family Guy, and why you thought it was so funny when you were high while whining to your fat girlfriend that you never get sex.)

     

    Bitter much? Only online, where the filth of the world gathers to spew its seed all over the face of what could be the sliver of integrity our species is capable of. Or...maybe I'm just exhausted at the stupidity, close-mindedness, and perversely foul breath that results when a 20-something male speaks what he is REALLY thinking, with all 2% brainpower struggling to activate.

    Pot calling the kettle black? You don't think you sound arrogant in your post talking about how great you are, and calling people kids when you have no clue how old they may be until they tell you? If you're really so great, you would be wise and just rise above the rabble without needing to draw attention to your greatness. People will just see it and honor you for it.

    Little children and adults with the mind of children, trolls, and all that are mentioned will never honor anyone for anything.

    If you actually read this deleted user's post, he makes some great points and I personally applaud him. How many times are arrogant trolls, mean gamers, or abusive people getting away with their negativity scott free? At least this user states that he typically beats them in PvP. Why is this so hard for you to believe?

    Last time I checked, if someone states they're good at PvP and win most of the time, they're either lying or telling the truth. Since people exist in the world that are far superior to all of us in every subject and skill, I see no reason why he would be lying. He has nothing to gain from sharing his feelings that he feels satisfied and justified when he puts an abusive player to a more humble level.

     

    Sounding arrogant and being arrogant are quite different. Would you call a NFL player arrogant if he claimed to be good at football? Unfortunately, you would, as you are calling what is most likely a good PvPer arrogant simply for stating he is good at PvP. If he isn't a good PvPer and is lying, that would just be silly as well as irrelevant. Somewhere, some place, there are good PvPers who put jerks in their place. Why do you object so vehemently to this? Why argue with someone who claims to do good?

    My last remarks are about the "kid" reference. If you would take the time to read other user's posts for what they are, you would clearly see that this user states a kid can be a fully grown adult, and the user's definition of a "kid" is that of an immature mind, not a person of young age.

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,925Member Uncommon
    In a way this kind of brings up a reason why GW2 feels less social. Sure, you work with groups, but your not needing to actually 'party' or talk with them. This ends up making it feel like your alone despite playing around with a raid of people (ignoring the bots for this point). It 'benefits' you having a large group (or zerg) to trivialize the content, yet at the same time you really have no reason to actually 'group' and play together. It shows human nature in this regard to just how we percieve interaction.
  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYPosts: 2,211Member
    Wow, lokto really called it on magnus be disastified9. Solid work.
  • MMO-BPMMO-BP Downey, CAPosts: 21Member
    While I did like Guild Wars 2, I felt like I was soloing in a large group most of the time, rather than really playing with other players. The events were also scaled down to the point that you really shouldn't fail many of them, which sort of removes any comparison of them to a real raid. 
  • ExiledTyrantExiledTyrant nowhere news, WYPosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    Why a person that don't like or want grouping would play a mmo instead of a single-player game?  Anyone knows?

    I play an MMO mostly solo because I like the thought of an every changing world where I am not the "hero" and the world isn't solely centered around me. In any single rpg whether the game hints at you being the hero or not you are the hero. You will be the sole reason the world is saved and you will look damn good doing it. Online in a world influenced by other players this is not the case. Just because I adventure solo and progress my character the way I want without having to submit  to a  group doesn't mean i should be punished by force grouping or limited content. George Carlin, one of m favorite comedians, once said " I like people I really do, but I like them in short burst." This could be used to sum up my social tolerance with people as I explore and progress my character in an MMO world. Solo minded players add just as much to an MMO world as group players and shouldn't be singled out every time they don't want to be handicaped by required group content to progress and have fun. I don't mind grouping from time to time, but I shouldn't be forced to to enjoy game content and character fulfillment. No other person should have control over my character.

    Forced grouping can lead to needless time sinks forming a group to level, while you should be out there leveling and having fun with your character.Being LFG for 2 hours - 2 days(depending on what game or server you play on in said game) is not fun, nor is trying your luck at chat spam to get a group. Force grouping can deny users story driven  content  and can cause imbalances in gear. Force grouping can promote people to power and twist the game in  bad direction. I will elaborate on my last point. My first example is small scale dealing with something minor like WoW's dungeons needing tanks and healers when these 2 roles began to wane. The need for tanks ushered in a new age of whiny, obnoxious and flat out rude tanks/healers. Being that they were in demand you either had to bite the bullet, while trying to combat these awful personailties or you leave and try your luck again and again until you luck out  with a reasonable party. This had negative effect on my gaming experience, but it was forced so there was no way around it. Now let's talk large scale with a game called Anarchy Online. AO had a terrible raid system where loot roles were not supported and there were 0 ways to organize your huge raid  to take on the end game content( I think it would result in 100+ people to get in order with nothing but a public chat window. I'ts been years for me now though). Jump forward and enter the era of player made Bots. 3 or so private Bots made by players were put in the game run by a few select people. They could do die rolls for lot, make a point system for raids done, organize people in roles etc. Ok great, but put simply if you didn't raid with these bots you didn't raid. The entire endgame of your toon was in the fate of maybe 4 people. I won't go into any ugly details, but having an entire endgame pretty much run by a handful of players can have very nasty consequences. WoW's end game raiding is handicapped like this to a lesser degree.

    I am a solo player that doesn't mind grouping on occasion to break the monotony of the solo grind. I enjoy open market competition vs other people and I can enjoy competing in pvp from time to time. I don't like it when the power of the group has say on how i play my charater, how far I will advance, and how I enjoy the game i am playing. I play MMORPs to become apart of the world not to be controlled by it.

    "Do not speak to me of fate!" ~ A fairy tale for the Demon Lord

  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member

    ExiledTyrant, so why to play a mmo instead of a single-player game. The single-player game "solo" content is far better, richer and complex.

     

     

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

    image
  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member

    These "forced grouping" versus solo content issue only exists in themepark mmos. In sandboxes, that question haven't even place to be made.

     

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

    image
  • ExiledTyrantExiledTyrant nowhere news, WYPosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004

    ExiledTyrant, so why to play a mmo instead of a single-player game. The single-player game "solo" content is far better, richer and complex.

     

     

     I would go as far as to say you didn't even bother to read my first paragraph o_O. my argument is that single player games are not far richer or complex. MMOs have their own charm in that you are not the center of the world, can go beyond the complexity of scripted events, things may  or may not play out the same. The difference is the multitude of people shaping the world vs a stagnant story driven npc world. You don't need to group all the time to see the differences.

    "Do not speak to me of fate!" ~ A fairy tale for the Demon Lord

  • PalebanePalebane Tucson, AZPosts: 3,225Member

    Interesting point of view, OP. I think that when MMOS first started, the internet was new, so it was like a bunch of people coming out of thier shells for the first time. You could suddenly interact with thousands of people you would never have had the chance to before.

     

    I belive modern MMO players, even the old schoolers, pretty much take that for granted these days, and so the social interactions that used to be popular in the past have largely fallen by the wayside.

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • pkpkpkpkpkpk amherst, MAPosts: 85Member
    Anyone who disagrees with forced grouping is an idiot and not worth talking to. There's not even an alternative in MMORPGs. These games will never evolve without introducing complexity and dynamics to the game. As an example of how stupid these people are, there have been 5 or more high profile MMORPGs released since WoW, with budgets in the millions, and every one of them has failed. DAOC, FF XI, WoW, EQ2, EQ, UO--all can be considered successes. This is the difference between creating a good game with an ideal and trying to rekindle a waning trend, an indistinct bit of nostalgia. Ask the idiots what they want in a game and they won't know, ask them what they like in a game and they'll describe a game they didn't like. This is why you don't consult idiots when you make a game. Designing worlds, just like ruling them, is the business of the intelligent elite.
  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by pkpkpk
    Anyone who disagrees with forced grouping is an idiot and not worth talking to. There's not even an alternative in MMORPGs. These games will never evolve without introducing complexity and dynamics to the game. As an example of how stupid these people are, there have been 5 or more high profile MMORPGs released since WoW, with budgets in the millions, and every one of them has failed. DAOC, FF XI, WoW, EQ2, EQ, UO--all can be considered successes. This is the difference between creating a good game with an ideal and trying to rekindle a waning trend, an indistinct bit of nostalgia. Ask the idiots what they want in a game and they won't know, ask them what they like in a game and they'll describe a game they didn't like. This is why you don't consult idiots when you make a game. Designing worlds, just like ruling them, is the business of the intelligent elite.

    This.  More of this please!

  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member
    Originally posted by ExiledTyrant

     my argument is that single player games are not far richer or complex. MMOs have their own charm in that you are not the center of the world, can go beyond the complexity of scripted events, things may  or may not play out the same. The difference is the multitude of people shaping the world vs a stagnant story driven npc world. You don't need to group all the time to see the differences.

    Is the contrary. MMOs pve-based have a world far more stagnant than single-player games. In single-player games, the world changes with each action you do. In pve-based mmo, the scenario is completely fixed, with thousands of players completing the same quest (Ex: the son of npc X is rescued thousand of times) and absolutely nothing changing. MMOs based only in single-player contents necesserarily will suck if compared with single-player games, since they can't change the scenario with each player action because others players will need do the same role and pass through the same experience.

    Thus, if you wanna a dinamic world, you will play either a single-player game or a sandbox mmo.

     

     

     

     

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

    image
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    Why a person that don't like or want grouping would play a mmo instead of a single-player game?  Anyone knows?

    Yes. AH? Showing off gear? PvP? They like the combat mechanics (i mean which SP has 10 classes with 3 talent spec like WOW?)

    There are many reasons.

  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    Why a person that don't like or want grouping would play a mmo instead of a single-player game?  Anyone knows?

    Yes. AH? Showing off gear? PvP? They like the combat mechanics (i mean which SP has 10 classes with 3 talent spec like WOW?)

    There are many reasons.

     

    PVP in mmo that allow highly viable single-player gaming usually sucks (themepark pve-based mmos). Who like pvp or combat mechanics will more likely to choose sandboxes mmos (provided that have a minimal of technical quality).

    Remain only AH (whats is this, auction house?) and "showing off gear". I dont believe much because these are very silly and asshole motives to play a game. :I

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

    image
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