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Structured Player vs. Player: The Iceberg

2

Comments

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member

    I am starting to worry that they are overestimating the time they have to develop their sPvP so that it becomes a worthy E-sport game. Right now, the active population altogether in guild wars 2 seems healthy, now it is the time to try to create a large player base for the sPvP. 

     

    A good ladder system based on ELO, observer mode and replay mode neeeds to be developed quickly. I deem all those three aspects to be important and helpful for an E-sport game.

     

    I am afraid that if they take too much time to develop those key features, by the time they are done, the active population is already low and people will be over this initial "love-phase" one can have with new games; by then it would be much harder to get people interested to even give sPvP a serious chance. 

  • Preacher26Preacher26 saranac, NYPosts: 378Member

    having to buy tournament tickets with gems is ridiculous. Yes you can get them in chest but nowhere near enough to be playing tournaments competitvely.

    The "join now" and pug tournaments are a joke as far as organization and teamwork. Yes we do premades for the current free tournaments but that mostly entails rolling pugs which is no fun either.

    This is just the beginning... having gems as a requirment for a game feature. Whats next.. special dungeons that require entry tickets.. found on the item shop or in black lion chest. BS imho.

    I want to compete in tournaments but as many have requested LEADERBOARDS or some sort of ranking system. I am not going to buy gems/tickets with RL money so I can keep getting useless cosmetic gear.. wth

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    When you say gems you really mean gold. So you can do pretty much any activity in the game to get your gold. The game is free for god sake, switch off the entitlement hormone.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Preacher26

    having to buy tournament tickets with gems is ridiculous. Yes you can get them in chest but nowhere near enough to be playing tournaments competitvely.

    The "join now" and pug tournaments are a joke as far as organization and teamwork. Yes we do premades for the current free tournaments but that mostly entails rolling pugs which is no fun either.

    This is just the beginning... having gems as a requirment for a game feature. Whats next.. special dungeons that require entry tickets.. found on the item shop or in black lion chest. BS imho.

    I want to compete in tournaments but as many have requested LEADERBOARDS or some sort of ranking system. I am not going to buy gems/tickets with RL money so I can keep getting useless cosmetic gear.. wth

    you dont need to buy tourny tickets they are rewards from the free join tournys I have a stack of them right now if you actually read the article

    "As the name implies, paid automated tournaments have an entry fee. You’ll need tickets to enter a paid tournament, which you can purchase in the gem store, find in reward chests from free tournaments, and receive when you rank up!"

    i have gotten tickets from getting 2nd place many times so you don't even need to win a free tourny to get a ticket

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • Preacher26Preacher26 saranac, NYPosts: 378Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    When you say gems you really mean gold. So you can do pretty much any activity in the game to get your gold. The game is free for god sake, switch off the entitlement hormone.

    Tournament tickets bought with gems..

    The gold --> gem rates are horrible.

    For people playing sPvP competively... having to dish out RL cash to participate is a joke.

    Its nothing to do with feeling entitled, this is the first addition to the game and its forcing the item shop on people. Of coarse someone doesnt have to participate.. but thats an aspect of the game they advertised and the reason many bought the game after playing it extensively in GW1.

    And the rewards for these PAID tournaments... more useless cosemtic gear. No rankings.. no leaderboards... bad move.

     

    For those stating you do not need to BUY tickets I am aware they are random awards in chest... the chest you buy with glory, get when you rank up or win a tournament. When you max your rank the last thing you want to do is grind more pugs for glory to buy chest in hopes of getting a ticket so you can play competitvely.

     

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon

    I just read the mmorpg article earlier.  

     

    The first two things are already in game.

     

    The "arenas" are exactly like WoW wargames. Nobody did wargames.  Not "arena".

    http://www.wowpedia.org/War_Game wargames

    "Using the War Games feature, groups of players can challenge one another to player versus player combat that affects neither ratings nor currency but is intended solely for fun, practice, or recruitment." 

     

    they replaced skirmishes with wargames. people are still pissed 2 years later.

    http://hydramist.tv/arena/bring-back-skirmishes-in-mists-of-pandaria/

     

    There they go trying to "redefine" things...

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Preacher26
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    When you say gems you really mean gold. So you can do pretty much any activity in the game to get your gold. The game is free for god sake, switch off the entitlement hormone.

    Tournament tickets bought with gems..

    The gold --> gem rates are horrible.

    For people playing sPvP competively... having to dish out RL cash to participate is a joke.

    Its nothing to do with feeling entitled, this is the first addition to the game and its forcing the item shop on people. Of coarse someone doesnt have to participate.. but thats an aspect of the game they advertised and the reason many bought the game after playing it extensively in GW1.

    And the rewards for these PAID tournaments... more useless cosemtic gear. No rankings.. no leaderboards... bad move.

     

     

    try actually reading the whole article

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • Preacher26Preacher26 saranac, NYPosts: 378Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Preacher26
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    When you say gems you really mean gold. So you can do pretty much any activity in the game to get your gold. The game is free for god sake, switch off the entitlement hormone.

    Tournament tickets bought with gems..

    The gold --> gem rates are horrible.

    For people playing sPvP competively... having to dish out RL cash to participate is a joke.

    Its nothing to do with feeling entitled, this is the first addition to the game and its forcing the item shop on people. Of coarse someone doesnt have to participate.. but thats an aspect of the game they advertised and the reason many bought the game after playing it extensively in GW1.

    And the rewards for these PAID tournaments... more useless cosemtic gear. No rankings.. no leaderboards... bad move.

     

     

    try actually reading the whole article

    [mod edit]

    Someone playing tournaments as the main focus will have to buy them with gems (or stop, leave their team and go farm glory/chest). The random ones obtained from chest are not enough to keep up. [mod edit]

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    I just read the mmorpg article earlier.  

     

    The first two things are already in game.

     

    The "arenas" are exactly like WoW wargames. Nobody did wargames.  Not "arena".

    http://www.wowpedia.org/War_Game wargames

    "Using the War Games feature, groups of players can challenge one another to player versus player combat that affects neither ratings nor currency but is intended solely for fun, practice, or recruitment." 

     

    they replaced skirmishes with wargames. people are still pissed 2 years later.

    http://hydramist.tv/arena/bring-back-skirmishes-in-mists-of-pandaria/

     

    There they go trying to "redefine" things...

    What do you mean that those two things are already in  game? Im trying to make sense of your post...

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  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Preacher26
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Preacher26
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    When you say gems you really mean gold. So you can do pretty much any activity in the game to get your gold. The game is free for god sake, switch off the entitlement hormone.

    Tournament tickets bought with gems..

    The gold --> gem rates are horrible.

    For people playing sPvP competively... having to dish out RL cash to participate is a joke.

    Its nothing to do with feeling entitled, this is the first addition to the game and its forcing the item shop on people. Of coarse someone doesnt have to participate.. but thats an aspect of the game they advertised and the reason many bought the game after playing it extensively in GW1.

    And the rewards for these PAID tournaments... more useless cosemtic gear. No rankings.. no leaderboards... bad move.

     

     

    try actually reading the whole article

     Are you rank 80? how many tournament wins do you have? I am well aware the current ways to obtain tickets without gems.

    i have done 15 free tournys and have 10 tickets.. so your point is? also only 5 of those 15 were wins.. point is your post is a complete lie you do not need to spend any money to enjoy paid tournys and you can easily get them through free tournys

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • Preacher26Preacher26 saranac, NYPosts: 378Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Preacher26
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Preacher26
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    When you say gems you really mean gold. So you can do pretty much any activity in the game to get your gold. The game is free for god sake, switch off the entitlement hormone.

    Tournament tickets bought with gems..

    The gold --> gem rates are horrible.

    For people playing sPvP competively... having to dish out RL cash to participate is a joke.

    Its nothing to do with feeling entitled, this is the first addition to the game and its forcing the item shop on people. Of coarse someone doesnt have to participate.. but thats an aspect of the game they advertised and the reason many bought the game after playing it extensively in GW1.

    And the rewards for these PAID tournaments... more useless cosemtic gear. No rankings.. no leaderboards... bad move.

     

     

    try actually reading the whole article

     Are you rank 80? how many tournament wins do you have? I am well aware the current ways to obtain tickets without gems.

    i have done 15 free tournys and have 10 tickets.. so your point is? also only 5 of those 15 were wins.. point is your post is a complete lie you do not need to spend any money to enjoy paid tournys and you can easily get them through free tournys

    maybe your missing the point... I am well aware you can grind glory to buy chest in hopes of obtaining tourny tickets, I am also aware you can grind free tournies for the same purpose.

    Why though should you have to grind those game types to participate in the one you enjoy.

     

    Lets compare it to dungeons. How would you feel if you needed an admission ticket to enter an explorable dungeon. You could obtain these tickets on the item shop, as random rewards from black lion chest or randomly from finishing a story mode instance. Would that be acceptable to you...

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Preacher26
     

    maybe your missing the point... I am well aware you can grind glory to buy chest in hopes of obtaining tourny tickets, I am also aware you can grind free tournies for the same purpose.

    Why though should you have to grind those game types to participate in the one you enjoy.

     

    Lets compare it to dungeons. How would you feel if you needed an admission ticket to enter an explorable dungeon. You could obtain these tickets on the item shop, as random rewards from black lion chest or randomly from finishing a sotry mode instance. Would that be acceptable to you...

    that wasn't the point you were making originally(or how it came off) you said you need to spend money to enjoy paid tournys which is what I responded to and it isn't true..  you also know gems will be rewards for paid tournys as well right? you will have several routes of getting tourny tickets easily without spending money.. but think it's sort of pointless to get all up and arms about it till it's fully implemented.

     

    Also for the dungeon thing if the rewards of finishing that dungeon matched that type of system no i wouldn't have an issue with it, it would make the explorable feel little more of a rewarding experience overall as it wouldn't be as easy to get in. Which is one of the reasons I think they are doing the ticket thing with the paid tournys.

    It's like going from the free day at the park minor league baseball game to the big leagues

     

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by bcbully

    I just read the mmorpg article earlier.  

     

    The first two things are already in game.

     

    The "arenas" are exactly like WoW wargames. Nobody did wargames.  Not "arena".

    http://www.wowpedia.org/War_Game wargames

    "Using the War Games feature, groups of players can challenge one another to player versus player combat that affects neither ratings nor currency but is intended solely for fun, practice, or recruitment." 

     

    they replaced skirmishes with wargames. people are still pissed 2 years later.

    http://hydramist.tv/arena/bring-back-skirmishes-in-mists-of-pandaria/

     

    There they go trying to "redefine" things...

    What do you mean that those two things are already in  game? Im trying to make sense of your post...

    Free automated tournys and paid automated tournys. Am I missing something?

  • drakaenadrakaena Posts: 488Member Uncommon
    Bad PvP system is bad. Get at me when they add death matches and a ladder system with unique rewards based on bracket placement.
  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by bcbully

    I just read the mmorpg article earlier.  

     

    The first two things are already in game.

     

    The "arenas" are exactly like WoW wargames. Nobody did wargames.  Not "arena".

    http://www.wowpedia.org/War_Game wargames

    "Using the War Games feature, groups of players can challenge one another to player versus player combat that affects neither ratings nor currency but is intended solely for fun, practice, or recruitment." 

     

    they replaced skirmishes with wargames. people are still pissed 2 years later.

    http://hydramist.tv/arena/bring-back-skirmishes-in-mists-of-pandaria/

     

    There they go trying to "redefine" things...

    What do you mean that those two things are already in  game? Im trying to make sense of your post...

    Free automated tournys and paid automated tournys. Am I missing something?

    No, I thought you were talking about the stuff you were writting.

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  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by drakaena
    Bad PvP system is bad. Get at me when they add death matches and a ladder system with unique rewards based on bracket placement.

    death matches as in FFA? that would be kind of cool just for fun.

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  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by drakaena
    Bad PvP system is bad. Get at me when they add death matches and a ladder system with unique rewards based on bracket placement.

    death matches as in FFA? that would be kind of cool just for fun.

    No I'm sure he means as in Arena, 2v2 3v3 5v5.

  • SirFubarSirFubar SeoulPosts: 397Member
    Originally posted by drakaena
    Bad PvP system is bad. Get at me when they add death matches and a ladder system with unique rewards based on bracket placement.

    Bad troll is bad. DM PvP is the most nonsense useless form of PVP.

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by drakaena
    Bad PvP system is bad. Get at me when they add death matches and a ladder system with unique rewards based on bracket placement.

    death matches as in FFA? that would be kind of cool just for fun.

    No I'm sure he means as in Arena, 2v2 3v3 5v5.

    That will be in with the custom arenas....so Im thinking he didn't mean that.

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  • SirFubarSirFubar SeoulPosts: 397Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by drakaena
    Bad PvP system is bad. Get at me when they add death matches and a ladder system with unique rewards based on bracket placement.

    death matches as in FFA? that would be kind of cool just for fun.

    No I'm sure he means as in Arena, 2v2 3v3 5v5.

    If he means that, then hes like all the other troll here who can't even read the post that was linked in the OP.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by drakaena
    Bad PvP system is bad. Get at me when they add death matches and a ladder system with unique rewards based on bracket placement.

    death matches as in FFA? that would be kind of cool just for fun.

    No I'm sure he means as in Arena, 2v2 3v3 5v5.

    That will be in with the custom arenas....so Im thinking he didn't mean that.

    Without the rankings and rewards. just like WoW wargames. The problem with the system as it was in WoW you need to find people to play with. Once one team beats on the other for awhile you have to find more people. Where as an arena system would find more players for you, rank you, and reward you. 

     

    On paper I can see how someone would say "this looks cool" but in practice it's just not practical. It's much easier to just hot join a game, plus you get rewarded for it. Rule number one of mmos "People will follow the path of least resistance"

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    sad thing is I could of posted an article from a developer stating that they are giving away $50 checks to all players by end of next month and I bet you would see threads stating 1. Why do I have to wait till end of next month and  2. Why a check? who uses checks nowadays?

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by drakaena
    Bad PvP system is bad. Get at me when they add death matches and a ladder system with unique rewards based on bracket placement.

    death matches as in FFA? that would be kind of cool just for fun.

    No I'm sure he means as in Arena, 2v2 3v3 5v5.

    That will be in with the custom arenas....so Im thinking he didn't mean that.

    Without the rankings and rewards. just like WoW wargames. The problem with the system as it was in WoW you need to find people to play with. Once one team beats on the other for awhile you have to find more people. Where as an arena system would find more players for you, rank you, and reward you. 

     

    On paper I can see how someone would say "this looks cool" but in practice it's just not practical. It's much easier to just hot join a game, plus you get rewarded for it. Rule number one of mmos "People will follow the path of least resistance"

    They don't say anywere that you can't get rewards from it. And you can open it to the public.

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  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    sad thing is I could of posted an article from a developer stating that they are giving away $50 checks to all players by end of next month and I bet you would see threads stating 1. Why do I have to wait till end of next month and  2. Why a check? who uses checks nowadays?

    lol word

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  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    sad thing is I could of posted an article from a developer stating that they are giving away $50 checks to all players by end of next month and I bet you would see threads stating 1. Why do I have to wait till end of next month and  2. Why a check? who uses checks nowadays?

    If they are giving away money like that, one has to discuss what the intention is and if it is good for the game as  a whole to do so.

     

    I want the Structured PvP to succeed as an E-sport, but I think their current path is worrysome.  Like I mentioned above, they don't seem to either realize or agree with the analysis that it is important to hurry up while a lot of people are still interested; time is of essence. 

     

    I don't want to read in 1 year how they finaly got replay, spectator and an ELO system going but it being too late due to not enough people interested.

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