There are some quirks with doors. Just as attacker AoE can make it impossible for players inside to repair a door, AoE and siege weapons from inside the keep fired at the door will damage people banging on the door from the other side. That's why good defenders set up catapults inside the keep pointing right at the door.
I've been doing more WvW lately and door banging is NOT the heart of this game mode. Map strategy and good leadership out on the field make a huge difference. Supply really, really matters. Siege engines really, really matter. Scouts matter. Good cooperative play matters. And, back to the doors, most keeps have dustructible walls, so targetting siege weapons at the door isn't always the prefered route into the keep and the guys banging on the door might just be providing a distraction for a break elsewhere.
Bots are bad yes. But frankly is the problem a bit overrated, I played a lot and never seen an obvious bot in GW2. Sure, there might have been bots I havnt noticed, many even but people here make it sounds like they are everywhere all the time.
Morons banging on doors is not a problem as long as they are on the opposing sides. Seriously, how do you stop people from playing badly? More kills for me at least.
Nah, there are other stuff that need more attention, bots are bads but the account hackings are really what the security guys should have as main focus. Or tracking everyone who send large amounts of gold so they can ban the goldbuyers, that solves both most boths and account hacks rather soon.
The PvP devs should work more on balance and making WvWvW better.
How do you stop them from playing badly? Well easy-to-access ingame tutorials is the best way to go if you want to reach many people, even those who don't like checking wikis or forums. In those tutorials, exactly how much more damage a siege weapon does, should be explained; not just in vague words but exact numbers; furthermore those tutorials should be so easy-to-access for anyone joining World vs World so that the grand majority will know.
However, many MMORPG companies hate releasing formulas to their players, which causes a minority to know the mechanics and exact numbers, which encourages elitism and comments such as "Seriously, how do you stop people from playing badly?"
Originally posted by JoeyMMO Since people banging on doors is them not knowing that they need a siege weapon to do that effectively. "Fixing" that "problem" is done by informing people. If you think a serious gate should be taken down by hitting it with a sword for a few minutes, then I feel sorry for you.
It is fantasy and fantasy can have the most ridiculous rules. Comparing to how it would be done in real life, is not sufficient.
Well I can find an excuse for bots in a game as it is incredibly difficult for a company to try and combat dedicated hackers and people with no morals trying to exploit a game.
I can't though find much of an excuse for the countless people you find banging their heads against doors, quite often with untold amounts of damage raining down upon them from above. So I guess the door bangers are worse.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Originally posted by JoeyMMO Since people banging on doors is them not knowing that they need a siege weapon to do that effectively. "Fixing" that "problem" is done by informing people. If you think a serious gate should be taken down by hitting it with a sword for a few minutes, then I feel sorry for you.
It is fantasy and fantasy can have the most ridiculous rules. Comparing to how it would be done in real life, is not sufficient.
In this case it is. Siege weapons are in the game for a purpose. Stabbing a gate with a dagger for half an hour is firstly not fun and secondly it won't damage the gate anywhere near significantly.
Originally posted by JoeyMMO Since people banging on doors is them not knowing that they need a siege weapon to do that effectively. "Fixing" that "problem" is done by informing people. If you think a serious gate should be taken down by hitting it with a sword for a few minutes, then I feel sorry for you.
It is fantasy and fantasy can have the most ridiculous rules. Comparing to how it would be done in real life, is not sufficient.
In this case it is. Siege weapons are in the game for a purpose. Stabbing a gate with a dagger for half an hour is firstly not fun and secondly it won't damage the gate anywhere near significantly.
I disagree, I don't think it t is sufficient; you had to test the mechanics yourself to make a reasonable conclusion. Just because you bet and you happen to win, it doesn't automatically mean that it was a safe bet.
For instance: there is food in the game and the real-life expectation would be that you use food to get different forms of energy and other things that the body needs. You would also expect your character to get hungry and starting to feel major fatigue and even death if he goes without eating for too long. It wouldn't make sense in real life that a certain food gives +20 power while another gives +20 vitality and yet another type gives 10% chance to get might when you kill a foe; it doesn't work that way, food doesn't "buff" you in that manner in real life.
So for all we know, prior to actual testing, , the siege weapons could have merely been comestic or used only to attack players or a special NPC enemy; it is fantasy after all.
It really depends on the upgrade status of said doors. A relatively small group (10-20) can tear a door down on their own without siege if the door has no upgrades. Even the first upgrade and banging at the door becomes semi futile. Fully upgraded and your only option is sieging really.
Now for a couple of pointers:
Never ever take supplies from towers and keeps, unless you want to help the enemy. Only way for the tower/keep upgrades is to have supplies that the NPCs can use. You can't carry supplies to the keeps, these need to move there by dolyaks and that takes tons of time especially if people grab supplies from keeps and dolyaks are ambushed and killed on the way. Only exception to that is when the door is failing fast and your reinforcements are really slow to arrive.
The first upgrade is reinforced wall. Upgrading the doors is always the second option. That means that the doors will be weak and the tower easily breached by a small force unless a. there is a catapult behind the door that will push people away if they don't use siege and b. there are no defenders or siege up the walls. An unupgraded and undefended keep can go down in less than 5 mins with just a minimum force of 10 people with siege.
Some people choose second upgrade to cannon instead of doors. Problem with cannons is that they need supply runs to supply camps (remember what we said earlier abot not using supplies from the tower/keeps?) and having no reinforced doors means that you need a token force of people to slow the attackers and equal numbers to drive them away.
The more reinforced a tower/keep is, the more reaction time it provides and the easiest it is to defend with less people.
Player weapons don't do damage to walls. Rams don't do damage to walls. Balistas need a target to fire and are vertically challenged, but are the best weapons to deny choke point access. The higher you put trebs and catapults, the futher the projectile goes. They also have a dead zone, an area around them that they can't hit. You can't place a treb just outside a keep and expect it to hit the wall next to it. Alpha golems cost shit tons of supplies, are slow and really vulnerable to player fire, not to mention expensive.
Tactics like assaulting the door (and have the defenders repair it) while trebbing or catapulting a wall somewhere else work wonders against heavily fortified targets. Assaulting the guards locks the waypoints in upgraded keeps. Assaulting dolyaks deny upgrade supplies from keeps/towers. Assaulting the supply camps hinder the supply lines even more.
Some general things:
Siege cost gold so people are reluctant to place them. People are even more reluctant to place them when the rest of the group don't bother to bring supplies on a siege.
A server that has no 24/7 coverage loses everything during the night/early morning. People become less and less motivated to upgrade stuff on such a server. Consider that the cost to bring down an empty keep is 20silver at best while the cost to fully upgrade can go up to 20g plus karma. Supply wise it's 80 supplies to attack compared to 8000 to upgrade.
If you die in GW2 and you ca't obviously move, the game considers you afk, regardless on whether you're talking in chat. If you see that noone is rezzing you in the puzzles, consider taking the bullet and recalling to waypoint, else you may have to suffer queue on top of that.
You can queue to all battlegrounds from the outside, just pick them all and confirm queue, one by one. You can do it from the inside by clicking on the spawn waypoint of each one. The most popular (and with the highest queue) is usually the eternal, because it's also the most balanced.
There are issues atm, imbalances and cheat/exploits that tarnish a good WvW experience, but should be dealt with in time and I don't think they are appropriate for this post.
Yeah all the bots I see are in frostgorge sound. Teleporting, 5 people running in unison for 10+ hours. I saw one group of 5 in the same spot for more then 24 hours, who know they might still be there.
But one thing that has really ruined it for me is the server transfers. I cant tell you how annoying it is to be killing someone in wvw and have a player or group from the other server come and save them. Wtf is that. Or once we had one server take down the outer wall of the keep and leave and let the other server take down the inner wall and the keep for points. Just way to much of this stuff it really ruins it, have been seeing it more and more to.
As for door banging, yeah alot of people still need to learn how to play wvw.
Some of what you describe can be cross-server coordination but a lot are due to chance.
For example, what you described as one server taking the outer wall and the other the inner happened a couple times with us. We observed the opposing server taking out the wall, then when they did we moved in wiped them and moved to the inner part.
Also what seem like server grouping up it may just be both servers just hitting the weakest one. Human nature and all to take the path of least resistance and if both of them are hammering you and your defenses are not up, guess what, you're the path of least resistance all the way up to the spawn point.
What some DAoC purists and the most hardcore GW2 fans thought that would happen is that the two weakest servers would band to take out the strongest. What it actually happens is that the two strongest servers usually band up and try to eliminate the weakest, then fight for the remaining territory themselves.
Originally posted by JoeyMMO Since people banging on doors is them not knowing that they need a siege weapon to do that effectively. "Fixing" that "problem" is done by informing people. If you think a serious gate should be taken down by hitting it with a sword for a few minutes, then I feel sorry for you.
It is fantasy and fantasy can have the most ridiculous rules. Comparing to how it would be done in real life, is not sufficient.
In this case it is. Siege weapons are in the game for a purpose. Stabbing a gate with a dagger for half an hour is firstly not fun and secondly it won't damage the gate anywhere near significantly.
I disagree, I don't think it t is sufficient; you had to test the mechanics yourself to make a reasonable conclusion. Just because you bet and you happen to win, it doesn't automatically mean that it was a safe bet.
For instance: there is food in the game and the real-life expectation would be that you use food to get different forms of energy and other things that the body needs. You would also expect your character to get hungry and starting to feel major fatigue and even death if he goes without eating for too long. It wouldn't make sense in real life that a certain food gives +20 power while another gives +20 vitality and yet another type gives 10% chance to get might when you kill a foe; it doesn't work that way, food doesn't "buff" you in that manner in real life.
So for all we know, prior to actual testing, , the siege weapons could have merely been comestic or used only to attack players or a special NPC enemy; it is fantasy after all.
If you've been following the game then siege weapon concept was explained, so betting was not really involved. Unless you don't believe what the devs say of course. They've been reasonably good on their word thus far.
As to the food thing, it says what it does in the description, no real need to try it all out to learn what it does.
I agree that fantasy can have some silly rules, but in the case of siege weapons they're just not all that silly.
Comments
There are some quirks with doors. Just as attacker AoE can make it impossible for players inside to repair a door, AoE and siege weapons from inside the keep fired at the door will damage people banging on the door from the other side. That's why good defenders set up catapults inside the keep pointing right at the door.
I've been doing more WvW lately and door banging is NOT the heart of this game mode. Map strategy and good leadership out on the field make a huge difference. Supply really, really matters. Siege engines really, really matter. Scouts matter. Good cooperative play matters. And, back to the doors, most keeps have dustructible walls, so targetting siege weapons at the door isn't always the prefered route into the keep and the guys banging on the door might just be providing a distraction for a break elsewhere.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
How do you stop them from playing badly? Well easy-to-access ingame tutorials is the best way to go if you want to reach many people, even those who don't like checking wikis or forums. In those tutorials, exactly how much more damage a siege weapon does, should be explained; not just in vague words but exact numbers; furthermore those tutorials should be so easy-to-access for anyone joining World vs World so that the grand majority will know.
However, many MMORPG companies hate releasing formulas to their players, which causes a minority to know the mechanics and exact numbers, which encourages elitism and comments such as "Seriously, how do you stop people from playing badly?"
In short: easy-to-access information is the key.
It is fantasy and fantasy can have the most ridiculous rules. Comparing to how it would be done in real life, is not sufficient.
Well I can find an excuse for bots in a game as it is incredibly difficult for a company to try and combat dedicated hackers and people with no morals trying to exploit a game.
I can't though find much of an excuse for the countless people you find banging their heads against doors, quite often with untold amounts of damage raining down upon them from above. So I guess the door bangers are worse.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Jesus some people are just TERRIBLE at this game eh? Then blames the mechanic's.
Pro-Tip - if you want to blow down a door, use that silly siege equipment stuff you see people using - it makes you suck a whole lot less.
Sitting there like a bunch of monkies hitting the auto attack button will takes you forever to get through, that's working as designed.
Bad players are bad... probably level 12's in WvW wondering why their autoattack doesn't break open keeps in 3 hits.
In this case it is. Siege weapons are in the game for a purpose. Stabbing a gate with a dagger for half an hour is firstly not fun and secondly it won't damage the gate anywhere near significantly.
I disagree, I don't think it t is sufficient; you had to test the mechanics yourself to make a reasonable conclusion. Just because you bet and you happen to win, it doesn't automatically mean that it was a safe bet.
For instance: there is food in the game and the real-life expectation would be that you use food to get different forms of energy and other things that the body needs. You would also expect your character to get hungry and starting to feel major fatigue and even death if he goes without eating for too long. It wouldn't make sense in real life that a certain food gives +20 power while another gives +20 vitality and yet another type gives 10% chance to get might when you kill a foe; it doesn't work that way, food doesn't "buff" you in that manner in real life.
So for all we know, prior to actual testing, , the siege weapons could have merely been comestic or used only to attack players or a special NPC enemy; it is fantasy after all.
It really depends on the upgrade status of said doors. A relatively small group (10-20) can tear a door down on their own without siege if the door has no upgrades. Even the first upgrade and banging at the door becomes semi futile. Fully upgraded and your only option is sieging really.
Now for a couple of pointers:
I hope no one ever sees this out of context.
Yeah all the bots I see are in frostgorge sound. Teleporting, 5 people running in unison for 10+ hours. I saw one group of 5 in the same spot for more then 24 hours, who know they might still be there.
But one thing that has really ruined it for me is the server transfers. I cant tell you how annoying it is to be killing someone in wvw and have a player or group from the other server come and save them. Wtf is that. Or once we had one server take down the outer wall of the keep and leave and let the other server take down the inner wall and the keep for points. Just way to much of this stuff it really ruins it, have been seeing it more and more to.
As for door banging, yeah alot of people still need to learn how to play wvw.
Some of what you describe can be cross-server coordination but a lot are due to chance.
For example, what you described as one server taking the outer wall and the other the inner happened a couple times with us. We observed the opposing server taking out the wall, then when they did we moved in wiped them and moved to the inner part.
Also what seem like server grouping up it may just be both servers just hitting the weakest one. Human nature and all to take the path of least resistance and if both of them are hammering you and your defenses are not up, guess what, you're the path of least resistance all the way up to the spawn point.
What some DAoC purists and the most hardcore GW2 fans thought that would happen is that the two weakest servers would band to take out the strongest. What it actually happens is that the two strongest servers usually band up and try to eliminate the weakest, then fight for the remaining territory themselves.
If you've been following the game then siege weapon concept was explained, so betting was not really involved. Unless you don't believe what the devs say of course. They've been reasonably good on their word thus far.
As to the food thing, it says what it does in the description, no real need to try it all out to learn what it does.
I agree that fantasy can have some silly rules, but in the case of siege weapons they're just not all that silly.
please dont refer to it like that ...there are mmos where you unlikely bump into bots or not at all because the gamemechanic isnt suitable for it
Banging doors down? I don't understand.
Also, this forum needs a quick reply feature.