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Originally posted by Arakazi Originally posted by DavisFlight Originally posted by GeezerGamer 2 companies that have damaged the MMO genre more than any others are Activision and Turbine. Activision for destryoying the Meta-Games in exchange for ease of leveling and the age of entitlement into MMOs. And Turbine for destroying the idea of paying for equal opportunity.
Blizzard didn't just kill meta game, they killed MMOPGs in general. Its all casual soloing and small scale raids now.
But yes, Turbine's awful FTP system.... even if you subscribe you don't get access to all the stuff you used to before the FTP shift. Meanwhile, you can still sub to Vanguard and get everything you used to get.
And somehow VG is winning the poll. Pathetic.
I don't think Blizzard can take all the blame for this and I don't see the MMORPG market as dead. But... to Blizzard's credit they introduced a lot of players to the MMO genre and set the benchmark in many areras. Over the years I feel that WoW has lost it way more than a bit. However, rather than laying all the blame on what you hate about MMO's on their doorstep, you should look instead to every other game developer reaction to the success of WoW.
They introduced a lot of people to MMOs who aren't interested in MMOs. And so for the rest of us who actually did like MMOs, our genre was warped to accomodate them, when they had no interest in leaving WoW anyway. It set the benchmark in marketing budget and animations, but thats about it.
Originally posted by DavisFlight Originally posted by Arakazi Originally posted by DavisFlight Originally posted by GeezerGamer 2 companies that have damaged the MMO genre more than any others are Activision and Turbine. Activision for destryoying the Meta-Games in exchange for ease of leveling and the age of entitlement into MMOs. And Turbine for destroying the idea of paying for equal opportunity.
I specifically chose Activision over Blizzard, because I think that WoW in its orginal format wasn't that bad. At the time, I was a SWG gamer and loved it. But I did play WoW and I'd still call it a full fledged MMORPG. Yeah, they did some dumb things like penalize players for group leveling. Wierd huh? but at the time, that would have been an easy fix. It wasn't until right after Activision took over that WoW went into decline game quality wise and Blizzard steered that boat in a new direction. One that all the fail clones or at least some fail and some niche clones have copied. (Post Activision model) Isn't it strange that no one will clone Vanilla WoW or TBC? The very models that pulled 12M players into the genre. Instead they copy the ones that bled the genre.
As far as Turbine goes, sure, I can understand what they did and why they did it. But it doesn't change the fact that every MMO company now goes. "Hmmmmmmmmmm, Micro transactions" because of Turbine. But we as the consumer, need to turn our backs on that model. Microtransactions have no place in an environment where you need to foster equal opportunity. GW2 is no exception. I applaud ANET for maintaining their word of no unfair advantages, however, I don't think there are any other companies who will act as reputably in their adoption of that model. I also believe that ANET is going to find themselves with some very difficult decisions surrounding their own Cash Shop in the very near future.
Thanks,MikeWorking on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com
its nice that its F2P, until you loot something you cant even use
Originally posted by worldalpha I'd love to know what people think is the best F2P.
In a game that focuses on being an immersive virtual world?
In a game thats already a chopped up arcade? uhhh... none, I guess.
If a game restrics my access to classes, dungeons, and zones, it's bad.
I would rather have focused that direction as well. Most of that list has a crap model (Turbine, SoE, Funcom - most of the western publishers). The Freemium restriction games where you have to sub in order to enjoy the full game drive me crazy. I gave them an honest shot, but they ripped out some of the things I found most fun.
My favorite F2P/B2P publishers and games are NCSoft/ANet (GW/GW2,Aion), Perfect World (STO, RaidrerZ), Mechanist Games (City of Steam), and an honorable mention to Runic with Torchlight 2 (not really an mmo but for $20 and multiplayer it offers a lot).
I've experienced few difftent f2p models:
1. Lotro far longest since I was huge lotro fan and player once it announced freemium transition so I really tried to like it since I wanted to continue playing. Ultimatelly it's main thing that drove me off from playing it though.
6. few random asian games that were sitting on my hard drive for short amount of time
After getting all that experience. I cannot say that I think of any of them as best.
There is just bad and worse. I learned that I just don't accept cash shops, microtransactions, gold selling,etc that come with f2p / freemium games. So there is no "best" for me.
best ones are the fremium games, where you can play a certain amount and then have to sub to get the rest.
I hate f2p tho and wish it would go away alnog with those stupid cash shops//
Originally posted by InFlamestwo Vanguard: saga of fucking heroes. It's too many restrictions, which also restricts players from being attracted to the game, which then leaves SoE with a game that a minority wants to play and without profit they can't update the game with new content. With no new content the players will leave the game, when players leave the game, Vanguard will die and never come back again unless they spend their time to revamp the game with new graphics, graphic models, new quest system, faster/better combat etc.
Uhh, such harsh restrictions like.... um... well let's see.. they don't restrict the zones... or the quests... or the raids... or the dungeons.. or the classes... or the levels...or the diplomacy... or the crafting...hmm, they restrict 1/100th of the loot, which you can unlock for 25cents. I guess that's harsh, huh? And you have less inventory space. Aaand...thats about it.
Some people, yeesh.
The Western MMO F2P are all crap, seriously.
They have nothing in common with TRUE F2P Asian games, where all the content is available to you as long as you have time.
The cash shop in Asian games sell Boost Potions and Equipment, which is the best way to go IMO.
If you have time you can get your Armor by playing, otherwise if you have little time to play you can buy it on the shop.
That's how it should be.
So in Asian MMO all content is available for FREE, with the shop as a "shortcut" tool.
In the Western MMOs instead, they block the actual content which you have to pay for if you want to unlock it.
Why is Star Trek Online on this list? They have an excellent free to play plan, one of the best ones on the market. The cash shop, however, not so much (why do I get the feeling that it is only on this list BECAUSE of the cash shop), but a cash shop and free to play plan are different things.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Originally posted by ste2000 The Western MMO F2P are all crap, seriously. They have nothing in common with TRUE F2P Asian games, where all the content is available to you as long as you have time. The cash shop in Asian games sell Boost Potions and Equipment, which is the best way to go IMO. If you have time you can get your Armor by playing, otherwise if you have little time to play you can buy it on the shop. That's how it should be. So in Asian MMO all content is available for FREE, with the shop as a "shortcut" tool. In the Western MMOs instead, they block the actual content which you have to pay for if you want to unlock it. Not good...........
Holy Moses, I could not disagree more. The notion of "shortcut tools" or pay-2-win cash shops is an absolute red flag to me that it's not a game I want to invest any time with. I don't want to waste my time with a player community that's too lazy to earn their rewards or levels, neither do I want to be lorded over by dilitantes who buy up monumental equipment and sucki the fun out of PvP for those who've actually taken time to play the game. P2W financing strategies cater to the lazy and ego-challenged, and in almost every case end up costing players much more than had they paid to unlock game content.
Originally posted by DavisFlight Originally posted by InFlamestwo Vanguard: saga of fucking heroes. It's too many restrictions, which also restricts players from being attracted to the game, which then leaves SoE with a game that a minority wants to play and without profit they can't update the game with new content. With no new content the players will leave the game, when players leave the game, Vanguard will die and never come back again unless they spend their time to revamp the game with new graphics, graphic models, new quest system, faster/better combat etc.
They do restrict almost all classes and races or did they make it to where you could play them all past lvl 20 besides the 6 classes and races they allow. And saying they only block you out of 1/100th of equipment is a joke my lvl 30 bard can not use most items I find cause I need to sub and I can only use quest items if I follow the path they tell me to cause they have not fixed the items from more then half the quests in the game. I even started a new toon and got them a half elf monk to lvl 25 and am not happy with there F2P. I think its great we get to play in all the stuff the game has but cutting out classes races and what not from those that bought the game is kinda lame I could really care less about gear but they also limit mounts to where I can't use any better mount in the game then a basic one all others are sub only same with ships oh and your can craft but still can not use everything you craft same with diplomicy is cut off cause of gear restrictions that then cuts most players out of contnet as well cause you cant do everything in the game with out gear.
And those who say you just pay a small fee to unlock gear at max lvl yeah thats $10 to $15 dollars to unlock a whole set of gear and then a mount for $20 that flys and a ship if you want one is another $20 so thats $55 dollars per toon where in games like DDO and Lotro once you buy the content its open for your whole account I own all of DDO content and I only paid up to Redfens release all others was from TP earned on one toon pplaying to lvl 20 that includes the new expansion and in Lotro I own all content up to ROI and will most likely get the next one with the 18,000tp earned from playing I only bought upto Moria and I got it for 10 dollars all other content was with TP. STO I have to lvl 50 toons one FeD one Klingon both in maxed out ships only ever bought the game never subbed and I have the CE of it. I also own all of EQ2's expasions and am a FTP player and not once subbed sense FTP release. DCUO again own all content and FTP player with 6 toons 3 in end game gear. But I dont like how VG and EQ2 lock races and classes on stuff that comes with the purchase of most games.
To me I enjoy gaming I dont play to be uber I play to have fun. If a game is not fun to me guess what I move on and play something else till I find one that is. When I find that great game and not sure if in my life time there will be one I hope it has everything I want in an mmo.
Originally posted by Aelious Truly free to play games will be of less quality or close because you need to cover costs. It's a sliding scale and you can't have both nor should you expect it. If I'm going to play for free I'll take a quality deep game with restrictions rather that a shallow one with a truly free to play model.
Allods Online was an excellent game, despite being free to play. It was set to be the WoW killer before everyone started thinking Guild Wars 2 would be the WoW killer.
Then the cash shop happened, and it tanked.
Allods Online has an excellent free to play plan as well, but a crappy cash shop (or at least previously crappy, as the original cash shop problem turned me off Allods for good, so I don't know how the cash shop is nowadays).
Also, I have one word that completely disproves your "free to play games are always of worse quality than buy to pay or subscription based MMOs" theory: Alganon.
Originally posted by Daneril Lotro is by far the worst. After doing the starting area, you cant do ANYTHING at all without paying. Everquest 2 is pretty bad as well. Especially end game as you can only equip treasured armor and weapons.
Yeah people that defend the Lotro system are nuts. I did the starting area hit the no content (other than mob grinding) wall and immediately quit. I can't imagine mob grinding for days and days just so I can do some lame quests in one zone.
I also understand people not liking the SOE system, but at least you can do the quests and use some of the loot. Hell you can play EQ1 for a very long time and not pay a cent until the last ten levels.