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Way too strict moderation.

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Comments

  • SaintPhilipSaintPhilip Bree, MIPosts: 713Member
    Originally posted by Ravenmane

    Reading the rules tend to help.  I've been banned once since being here and at first I was like "WTF" and then I checked my messges and I got told I was banned for posting possible trolling comments.  Pretty much I posted something that looked like trolling and it was intended to start an arguement which is against their policy.  There is a difference between debating things straight up fighting about it.  And I will admit I did make a comment that could have started an online arguement which doesn't help teh community in any way.

    All too often I see someone post their opinion about a game and why they like it or a feature.  And it never fails to amaze me that within the first three responses someone feels the need to make a "OMG you're dumb for liking or not like that" response.  This is where you can tell the difference between a kid, or immature gamer from an adult or mature one.  I am all for hearing someone's opinion but I don't enjoy them getting blasted because they have different likes or dislikes.  Another example is on page 1 or 2 of this post when someone mentioned the moderators and a stick; if you look to the left at the poster you will see the word Banned.  Pretty self explanatory as to why that happened.

    These forums are supposed to be for the support of the MMO community but not every thread started or response posted seem to share that light.  Those of you who have questions as to why should probably take the advice that some have posted about reading the rules for this sight.  Or go back to previous posts you made and see if what you posted could be constured as trolling or abusively negative.  As far as posts about Xfire, I honestly couldn't say other than it may have reached a certain number or pages and they felt it was time to close.  In the end it is their website and we are just teh forum posters, we have to play by the rules here whether you agree or not.

    That is a fine and good theory you have there in a perfect World.

    -But we are discussing not only moderation but the RULES as well (most of us have "read them") and how sometimes it very inconsistant.

    So is that your stock answer- Read the rules, shut up. dont discuss? because technically I think that would be spam since many others have said the exact same thing.

    Your examples are moot as we are not discussing those BLATANT areas but rather the grey areas.

    -Thanks though

  • RavenmaneRavenmane Pensacola, FLPosts: 246Member

    Merely agreeing with some of the posters.  We all know not everybody reads the epic wall of text that is the Rules of MMORPG.com.  Though when it comes down to it they pretty much say "This is a forum for discussing MMO's, play nice."  As far as grey areas go...that's a moral decision for some because the grey area can be different depending on someone's views.  Here it is the moderators views.  If they felt they had to close a thread or ban someone then that is their right, they don't have to explain why.  Would it be nice?  Sure.  But ultimately we're in their playground, we play by their rules regardless of how often they change or are/are not inconsistent.  It's irritating but if you look over other sites, they do the same thing.

    Unfortunately my views could only exist in a perfect world for which we do not live in.  But at the same time we all try to achieve that which could make everyone happy but will ultimately fail because we all have different wants.  I like MMORPG because I can usually find the information I look for in all my games I play or am thinking about playing.  No other MMO news sight will give as much information, even Massively which is still pretty good but they have to divide their resources for regular Joystiq and WoWInsider.

    "If at first you don't succeed, excessive force is probably the answer."
  • SneakyRussianSneakyRussian ?????, SCPosts: 54Member
    Originally posted by Lydon
    Exactly why I rarely post here anymore to be honest. I feel like I can't express my true opinion because it may step on toes. So I just don't bother to begin with.

    Pretty Much

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    not really that hard to not get a warning or a ban just refrain from continuously talking crap about a game or attacking other people.. like most things on these boards though every little thing gets blown out of proportion..

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,452Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by boxsnd

    The mods seem to be closing threads left and right. Why don't you let the users decide what they want to discuss? Those who don't like a particular thread can simply ignore it. I understand that some mods want to show their employers that they are "needed" , but I think you guys are overdoing it.

    We aren't kids. Let us discuss stuff without interfering (unless it's REALLY needed).

     

    edit: this was supposed to be created in the site suggestions forum.

    Above you ask your question even though I'm sure you read the rules:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/265158/READ-FIRST-Notice-of-Increased-Moderation-in-The-Pub-MMORPGcom.html

    Also see RoC:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/disclaimers.cfm#conduct

    And then you do a pretty innocuous but nice little "belittling" of the mods indicating that part of the reason they eliminate threads is brecause they want to  show that they are actually doing something. Not because they have been trained or that they have been given specific instructions on how they should do their job.

    In any case, read the first link and contact community@mmorpg.com

     

  • karmathkarmath Posts: 827Member Uncommon
    It REALLY depends on the mod. I got a 3 month ban for saying SWTOR was going to go ftp a month or so before they annouced it. I said it in a sarcastic your game bad and you should feel bad way but it wasnt overtly nasty.
  • Kaelano1Kaelano1 Peoria, ILPosts: 375Member

    This site is 20% news and 80% commentary. Much of that commentary is bought with advertising money and it shows.

     

    This is barely a "gaming site". It's just one big advertisement for who pays more.

  • trash656trash656 Here, SKPosts: 357Member Uncommon

    I agree. MMORPG is run like Communist China. it used to be a good site to visit to see how other games were and to read other peoples opinions on the games. You used to get the odd person being being blantly offensive, but for a few years now they started banning people for expressing their opinion in a cival and mature way.

    I've been a member at this site for 7 years and there used to be a lot of cool people on this site but they don't even visit here anymore because the Moderators banned them all for expressing their opinion. There is not as many people as there were when i first came here because they bann everyone for the most stupid things imaginable. I myself hardly ever post here anymore because I get banned just for even being nice to people, and then labled a troll. Moderators seriously need to lay off the crack pipe. Seriously.

     

    *ps* Ill probably get banned again for saying this site is run like communist china then labled a troll.

     

    *Rolls Eyes*

  • phantomghostphantomghost Atlanta, GAPosts: 692Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by trash656

    I agree. MMORPG is run like Communist China. it used to be a good site to visit to see how other games were and to read other peoples opinions on the games. You used to get the odd person being being blantly offensive, but for a few years now they started banning people for expressing their opinion in a cival and mature way.

    I've been a member at this site for 7 years and there used to be a lot of cool people on this site but they don't even visit here anymore because the Moderators banned them all for expressing their opinion. There is not as many people as there were when i first came here because they bann everyone for the most stupid things imaginable. I myself hardly ever post here anymore because I get banned just for even being nice to people, and then labled a troll. Moderators seriously need to lay off the crack pipe. Seriously.

     

    *ps* Ill probably get banned again for saying this site is run like communist china then labled a troll.

     

    *Rolls Eyes*

    QFT communist china... definitely.

    photo SIG_zpszteuyd0ejpg
  • bartoni33bartoni33 Southern IllinoisPosts: 1,080Member Uncommon

    My 2p.

    Been here for years. Had many warnings, and almost as many temp-bans. Mostly for calling out trolls and ocasional trolling myself (can't help itimage). The longest have been for daring to bring up religion. THAT my friends will get you a ban real quick! Oh and don't forget about the "P" word, oh my! File sharing is SOOOO evil! The fall of civilazation for sure. Banned straight to hell for mentioning that abomanation of computing as it was meant to exist and was created for.

    That being said, these here forums are no worse than any other ones I've been on. A quick-fingered Mod here and there but most of the time I deserved it. The calling out of trolls and you getting the warning and not the troll itsself is kinda silly but oh well. It's not bad enough for me to leave.

    At least the CEO of the site hasn't called anyone a dirty thieving "pirate" for (insert deity of choice here) sakes! Now THAT would be cause to bitch.

    image

    Lets hope not...

    image

  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,739Member Uncommon
    "P" word what is the 'p' word I am awfully curious now. I got warned once for talking about the WoW community but I think I deserved it I was very sarcastic.

    image

  • MikeBMikeB MMORPG.com Community Manager Queens, NYPosts: 5,716Administrator Uncommon

    Hi guys,

    Well, I've read through this entire thread, so let me touch on a few things:

    First to address the OP:

    • XFIRE: I addressed this topic at the link posted earlier in this thread.
    • Politics: We simply don't allow political discussion. It never stays within the realm of gaming and goes into very volatile territory very quickly. Believe me, we've tried.
    • Locking threads due to violations: We don't close threads if there are simply a couple of violations in them. We'll just deal with individual violations. Threads are locked in this case if the thread has basically devolved into an unsalvagable mess by the time we got to it. If things were bad enough, but still salvagable, we'll clean it up and warn users in the thread that continued derailments and other violations will result in the locking of the thread. If things continue to spin out of control, the thread will be locked.
    • Temp Locks: Temporary locks are utilized by our mod team in order to give them the time to thoroughly go through a thread. Combing through a thread takes a considerable amount of time. If the thread is particularly active, it may end up spinning further out of control by the time the moderator's done going through what was already there when they got to it.
    Miscellaneous:
    • Thread Deletions: We rarely delete threads. Moderators are instructed to reserve thread deletions for very specific criteria, usually nonsensical spam and threads that are in major violation of our ROC. We prefer locking threads in order to preserve discussions for you all, even if they did ultimately go wildly off-course and necessitate said lock.
    • Mod Edits: Similarly, [Mod Edits] are used to do what we can to preserve a post, though sometimes entire posts will be edited out instead of deleted if its part of an off-topic chain or something of that nature and we want to spare you the hits on your star rank.  We'd actually be able to get a lot more done if we didn't bother and just deleted the post. Let me tell you, it's no fun to [Mod Edit] a post and then every post your post is quoted in. Especially when it's nested in those lovely quote pyramids!  If a post or thread can be salvaged, you bet we'll try to salvage it.
    • Issue? Question? Concern? Contact Me! As many other users noted, if you have an issue with a specific action taken by a moderator either against your account or on the forums  I'll be glad to look into it for you. Just shoot me a note at community AT mmorpg DOT com.
    • Staff & Procedures:  We do actually have paid moderator staff and there is a protocol and process to everything we do. This does include reading non-reported posts and threads (patrolling). If it helps illuminate things, part of our process is to identify our most active forums on a rolling basis and give them priority when it comes to patrolling. Reports are but one layer of our mod team's daily responsibilities.
    • Reports: Speaking of reports. No one is ever actioned just because they are reported. If someone has a vendetta against you and we notice they are just reporting your posts to try and get you in trouble, it's very likely that they will get in trouble instead for abusing our post report tool. Moderators use reports as a way of flagging a post or thread for review. Ultimately, if any action is taken, it is because the post content was in violation of our ROC in some manner.  Of course, we make mistakes, both in patrolling and when dealing with reports, and as I noted above, if we make a mistake, we'll rectify it for you. If you don't feel a report was handled to your satisfaction or have a question, my door is always open and you can contact me about it at the e-mail provided above.
    Ultimately, we have a very simple goal here and that is to ensure that our forums are an environment conducive to constructive discussion. And yes, we're more than aware things aren't perfect.
     

    As far as infractions go, most of the time, people simply need to understand where they went wrong and they never appear on our radar again. Believe me, I'm not interested in punishing the odd lapse of judgment, it happens to all of us, I get that. The point of issuing infractions is to say, "Hey. This isn't acceptable. Please don't do this again." That's essentially what a warning is. If you disagree with the infraction, you feel we legitimately screwed up,  or you have a question about it, all you need to do is reply to the auto-generated e-mail.

     
    Now, if you've received enough of these infractions to end up with lengthy and/or frequent temporary bans, well, I'll be honest, the problem isn't with us. The fact of the matter is that we have a great deal of users who post every day and rarely, if ever, receive an infraction. And they don't have some magic moderator warding trinket or anything. It's really not that complicated. You don't need to be familiar with each and every case and instance something would be considered trolling or flaming to avoid the banstick. Simply post in the interest of cultivating meaningful discussion and treat your fellow community members with civility and respect, especially when you disagree, and you should be fine. 
     
    Of course, we do understand that things get heated at times and our emotions get the best of us, which is why, as many members in this thread have already attested to, I'm pretty lenient about forgiving that sort of thing from your record. The infraction system we have in place is also designed to forgive the odd lapse of judgment even without me even having to overturn it for you. It's pretty hard to get yourself permanently banned or put on a long vacation unless your behavior has become a considerable source of toxicity on the forums. Basically, we give you a considerable length of rope. It's up to you whether or not you ultimately hang yourself with it.

     

    As far as us missing things goes, as much as we try, our team can't be everywhere at once. It's likely that we'll sometimes miss things given the volume of posts on our boards, but it doesn't mean we're OK with that behavior if it is out of line. This is why we ask that you pitch in and report posts instead of fighting it out on the open forums. While it is our moderators' jobs to enforce our Rules of Conduct, this is ultimately your community. If you see something lingering somewhere that you know from experience that we'd jump on, there's a very good chance we just missed it somehow.  So, please just flag it and we'll look into it!

    Anyways, this post has gone on far too long as it is. I'd just like to assure you all that I've read through each and every post and we do appreciate your taking the time to offer your feedback, both positive and negative.

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

  • phantomghostphantomghost Atlanta, GAPosts: 692Member Uncommon

    How come people come in my threads, ruin them, attack me, and I say something back I get temp banned... I ignore them, the thread gets locked?

     

    Almost every ban/warning I have comes after somebody decides to call me out or I receive a ridiculous warning/ban because I feel SWTOR was the 2nd worst game now (TSW) being the worst imo that I have every played.

    photo SIG_zpszteuyd0ejpg
  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member
    Originally posted by phantomghost

    How come people come in my threads, ruin them, attack me, and I say something back I get temp banned... I ignore them, the thread gets locked?

     

    Almost every ban/warning I have comes after somebody decides to call me out or I receive a ridiculous warning/ban because I feel SWTOR was the 2nd worst game now (TSW) being the worst imo that I have every played.

    It's your avatar.

     

    You've been profiled.

     

    /just saying

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • phantomghostphantomghost Atlanta, GAPosts: 692Member Uncommon

    Oh well I think it is obvious by the hundreds of warnings/bans I have that I will never stop arguing back when somebody tells me I am wrong, or cannot comprehend something and tells me its contradicting, or comes in attacking my thread and gets it locked...

     

     

    photo SIG_zpszteuyd0ejpg
  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Acidon
    Originally posted by Impulse47
    I've been here a long time now. Every year the mods get a slightly longer stick up their asses. Very saddening as this board in general used to be awesome.

    Having been warned recently (for good reason, I think), I certainly think about what I write more than I used to.  It certainly put a damper on how much I enjoy this site, but they gotta do what they gotta do.  

    I don't feel that I can truly express my opinion any longer though.

    image

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Do any of you folks posting specific moderation actions or comments that your other account got banned actually read the rules for this site?

    It's been a pretty typical Fight The Man thread.  See: Chapter 13=Authority Figures, Problems With.

    Becoming what you expect to see appear on a weekend, pretty much every weekend.  Odd coincidence, eh?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • ConnmacartConnmacart OsloPosts: 681Member Uncommon
    I simply don't feel like the moderator team knows what trolling is. Often blatant trolling threads are open for hours to days, because it's not openly negative. It's still trolling if the OP has no intention of engaging in a discussion. Or worse ignores counter arguments and only focusses on those that agree.
  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member

    The problem is that the RoC is pretty broad and open to interpretation depending on the mod and those who like to spam the report button.

    Basically, you can report anyones' ideas if you do not like what was said or you lack a valid response. Personally, I think it's a cowards way out. But, if you can spin your report into an interpretation of offending the RoC, you'll win. Depending of course, on who the mod is that day.

    Define "troll". Or even better, define "hate". How can you ban or censor a feeling? If you asked everyone what the definition of some RoC, you would get that many different answers.

    If you look at a dictionary for some of the RoC buzzwords, one stands out for me, you will see that the definition of the word includes "usually", which of course is not definite at all. My point is that definitions are definite. The wording of the RoC is up for interpretation by a moderator. Which will make a decision based on their personal belief of what they consider right and wrong based on personal, political, and moral ideas. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's how we all make decisions and why we protect those among us that share those same beliefs.

    Threads can't be expected to be constructive all the time. If I didn't have a chuckle once in awhile, I wouldn't come to this site anymore. Nothing says you have to agree or disagree with anyone. Nobody says that you have to respond to other peoples' ideas or thoughts. What's important is having the ability to have different thoughts and ideas. Sometimes it's nice to hear other peoples' ideas. "Oh good, I'm not the only one". Ever say that to yourself?

    I think Gen. Patton said, "If everyone is thinking the same, then nobody is thinking." That's why censorship is bad.

    Am I calling for everyone to run amuck here? No. But, banning someone for stating something so daring, so dangerous, such as,

    A: "themeparks are for simpletons with neck-beards and fat, little sausage fingers"

    instead of stating,

    B: "In my opinion and experience, I highly suspect that a number in the majority of those who patron, what is refered to as "themeparks", have low IQs and expectations in life, to include social, financial, and health."

    I said the same exact thing but with less pork products and facial (neck?) hair.

     

     

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • OzivoisOzivois Phoenix, AZPosts: 598Member

    Everyone like the referees until the call goes against them...

    OP left less than 10 posts so far and is complaining about moderation; moderation is a philosphical topic and at the end of the day "it is what it is". A forum will take eventually take on the personality of the moderators, which is I am sure what the site owners prefer.

    Most of us do, too.

  • OzivoisOzivois Phoenix, AZPosts: 598Member
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    The problem is that the CoC is pretty broad and open to interpretation depending on the mod and those who like to spam the report button.

    Basically, you can report anyones' ideas if you do not like what was said or you lack a valid response. Personally, I think it's a cowards way out. But, if you can spin your report into an interpretation of offending the CoC, you'll win. Depending of course, on who the mod is that day.

    Define "troll". Or even better, define "hate". How can you ban or censor a feeling? If you asked everyone what the definition of some CoC, you would get that many different answers.

    If you look at a dictionary for some of the buzzwords, one stands out for me, you will see that the definition of the word includes "usually", which of course is not definite at all. My point is that definitions are definite. The wording of the CoC is up for interpretation by a moderator. Which will make a decision based on their personal belief of what they consider right and wrong based on personal, political, and moral ideas. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's how we all make decisions and why we protect those among us that share those same beliefs.

    Threads can't be expected to be constructive all the time. If I didn't have a chuckle once in awhile, I wouldn't come to this site anymore. Nothing says you have to agree or disagree with anyone. Nobody says that you have to respond to other peoples' ideas or thoughts. What's important is having the ability to have different thoughts and ideas. Sometimes it's nice to hear other peoples' ideas. "Oh good, I'm not the only one". Ever say that to yourself?

    I think Gen. Patton said, "If everyone is thinking the same, then nobody is thinking." That's why censorship is bad.

    Am I calling for everyone to run amuck here? No. But, banning someone for stating something so daring, so dangerous, such as,

    A: "themeparks are for simpletons with neck-beards and fat little sausage fingers"

    instead of stating,

    B: "In my opinion and experience, I highly suspect that a number in the majority of those who patron what is refered to as "themeparks", have low IQs and expectations in life, to include social, financial, and health."

    I said the same exact thing but with less pork products and facial (neck?) hair.

    Being a mod must be hard at times.They are hated and loved at the same time.

     

    I believe that both examples "A" and "B" are inappropriate and the poster should be warned.  Both are personal attacks against a subset of the community. 

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Ozivois

    OP left less than 10 posts so far and is complaining about moderation

    Which leads one to believe that he's a full-on pure antagonist pulling down warnings at an unprecedented rate; or he's indulging in a little forum-alt fun...which happens to be..something he can also get into trouble for.

    So OP? Curiosity wants to know, which?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by phantomghost

    Oh well I think it is obvious by the hundreds of warnings/bans I have that I will never stop arguing back when somebody tells me I am wrong, or cannot comprehend something and tells me its contradicting, or comes in attacking my thread and gets it locked...

     

     

    Sounds like there is some that don't want you to speak. It also sounds that they didn't offer any ideas of their own to challenge you so they had to get someone else to force your silence. How brave.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member
    Originally posted by Ozivois
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    The problem is that the CoC is pretty broad and open to interpretation depending on the mod and those who like to spam the report button.

    Basically, you can report anyones' ideas if you do not like what was said or you lack a valid response. Personally, I think it's a cowards way out. But, if you can spin your report into an interpretation of offending the CoC, you'll win. Depending of course, on who the mod is that day.

    Define "troll". Or even better, define "hate". How can you ban or censor a feeling? If you asked everyone what the definition of some CoC, you would get that many different answers.

    If you look at a dictionary for some of the buzzwords, one stands out for me, you will see that the definition of the word includes "usually", which of course is not definite at all. My point is that definitions are definite. The wording of the CoC is up for interpretation by a moderator. Which will make a decision based on their personal belief of what they consider right and wrong based on personal, political, and moral ideas. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's how we all make decisions and why we protect those among us that share those same beliefs.

    Threads can't be expected to be constructive all the time. If I didn't have a chuckle once in awhile, I wouldn't come to this site anymore. Nothing says you have to agree or disagree with anyone. Nobody says that you have to respond to other peoples' ideas or thoughts. What's important is having the ability to have different thoughts and ideas. Sometimes it's nice to hear other peoples' ideas. "Oh good, I'm not the only one". Ever say that to yourself?

    I think Gen. Patton said, "If everyone is thinking the same, then nobody is thinking." That's why censorship is bad.

    Am I calling for everyone to run amuck here? No. But, banning someone for stating something so daring, so dangerous, such as,

    A: "themeparks are for simpletons with neck-beards and fat little sausage fingers"

    instead of stating,

    B: "In my opinion and experience, I highly suspect that a number in the majority of those who patron what is refered to as "themeparks", have low IQs and expectations in life, to include social, financial, and health."

    I said the same exact thing but with less pork products and facial (neck?) hair.

    Being a mod must be hard at times.They are hated and loved at the same time.

     

    I believe that both examples "A" and "B" are inappropriate and the poster should be warned.  Both are personal attacks against a subset of the community. 

    It's not a personal attack if it's a general statement. A personal attack is an insult against a specific user, not a broad subset of users. Neither of those statements qualify as personal attacks.

    It doesn't surprise me that people overreact and view general statements as personal attacks, and it also doesn't surprise me that the modding staff reinforces that overreaction by warning or banning users. I wish people were less ignorant about that specific issue.

    I agree with NorseGod, and not just because I fear that he'll use his divine powers to smite me if I don't. When rules are not strictly defined and left open to interpretation, you'll have confusion and disagreement from all parties on whether or not a rule is violated.

  • MikeBMikeB MMORPG.com Community Manager Queens, NYPosts: 5,716Administrator Uncommon
    Originally posted by phantomghost

    How come people come in my threads, ruin them, attack me, and I say something back I get temp banned... I ignore them, the thread gets locked?

     

    Almost every ban/warning I have comes after somebody decides to call me out or I receive a ridiculous warning/ban because I feel SWTOR was the 2nd worst game now (TSW) being the worst imo that I have every played.

    Shoot me and e-mail with an example or two and let's talk!

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

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