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End Game Grind Now Showing?

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  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802

    Since it has been said that grind is something forced and negative and I agree to that - I have to say that I am doing a volunteer grind.

    Camping a certain and regular DE to get a lot of rare level 80 gear. Salvaging them all to farm Globs of Ectoplasm.

    My gear right now is just green tier gear which i bought for >cheap< from the tradepost. It fully suffices though, so grinding for something better IS optinonal.

    Harbinger of Fools
  • nsignificnsignific Member Posts: 212

    Any grind (in a videogame) is inherently  voluntary.

     

    If your endgame is to kill a boss that requires a specific item level - you grind it out.

    If your endgame is to dress up your toon in fancy clothes - you grind that out instead.

     

    If you feel forced to do any of the above - you've got to stop. Like, right now. Just stop playing that particular game. If you're being pressured by your guildmates / friends, and are willing to endure the grind to keep playing with them - have the decency not to cry about it here.

  • ZefireZefire Member Posts: 676

    if u want to earn gold and get stylised items with power/precision stats u have to grind.

    I remember grinding dungeons many hours same and same thing all the time.

    When i finished i did some wvw for one day then i got bored.

  • lilHealalilHeala Member UncommonPosts: 522

    Like others have pointed out, the grind is optional. You can do all content in game without having full exotics, dungeon or cultural gear sets. The stat difference with green or yellow items is very minimal.

    A lot of players I've seen complain about the grind are those that are still chasing gear like they're used from other games and just look at how long it takes to get it when focusing on just that and nothing else. Even though they often also tend to complain about gear progression, they're unable to let go of that mindset. Like conditioned animals (skritt?).

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by vigg2004

    I'm approaching level 80 in GW2, and I'm looking to the future.  I've seen several posts here indicating that there is a huge grind at endgame, be it DE's, dungeons or WvW, if you want to get good/rare gear.  Is this true?  Was GW2 not supposed to do away with grinding the same content over and over?

    Thanks for the info!

    Not really. I hit 80 last week, crafted my first piece of exotic endgame armor the day after.

    Basically you need 5 ecto for each piece, and as I have leather I also need a few pieces of gossamer silk and some hardened leather. Leather did cost me 34 copper a bit (I needed 10 bits for my jacket) and gosammer silk was expensive, around 1.5 silver each (I needed 20 bits). Then I also used 15s or so for thread.

    Ecto cost around 18 silver each, but you get it cheaper by using a Black lion salvage kit on high level rare and exotic items. I used 4 rare lvl 75-80 drops to get 5 ectos but then I might have been a little lucky. A master salvage kit means you need twice as many rares to get the ectos.

    So, no it is not really expensive if you can craft the gear or know someone who can. 1 gold for the ecto, and the rest actually drop in Orr and Frostgorge.

    What is grindy and expensive is legendary weapons and dungeon gear but they are not really better than the crafted exo gear.

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan Member RarePosts: 3,456

    I'm full exotics now on my "main" warrior, and I never did grind anything. Crafted exotics.

    There's nothing even remotely close to the grinds which are necessary in any of the WoW/EQ clones at max level to become competitive in PvE and PvP. And there's absolutely no "tier" grind.

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  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    I'm 6 exotic Armor, with only accessories left which is planned. I got those by just playing the game normally I.e a mixture of everything. 82k karma, 42 of which I got levelling to 80 and 14 gold gathered since the game started. I have gathered all gems on way so close to 400 jc to get my other bits for cost price.

    So. Max gear for about 16 gold compared to repeating a dungeon for 3 days a week for 6 months-only to have that armor made vendor trash when the next expansion comes. Spot the grind.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Member UncommonPosts: 2,156


    Originally posted by Elandir90
    i guess the lack of grind that's driving people off, they don't have a "goal", no treadmill to run. 
    I find this funny, because the grind treadmill is what runs ME off, the endgame is actually decent in this game, I haven't covered much of many maps yet and haven't run all the dungeons yet and I love pvp'ing (and without subs, I'll be doing it for a long time).

    image
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  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979

    Thankfully my so far #3 looking set I just got cheap while leveling (it's the Lionguard heavy armor look) and my #2 set is purchasable w/ gold at lvl 60 (human heavy Tier 2 cultural) while my #4 is also $ purchase (human Tier 3 heavy cultural)

    so the only set I have to grind for is the dungeon set from CM (heavy)

    For looks anyway.

    Been trying to save my karma for 80 purchases of exotics.

    Anyone know if you can get the Lionguard shield + weapon models?

  • NaralNaral Member UncommonPosts: 748
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    I'm 6 exotic Armor, with only accessories left which is planned. I got those by just playing the game normally I.e a mixture of everything. 82k karma, 42 of which I got levelling to 80 and 14 gold gathered since the game started. I have gathered all gems on way so close to 400 jc to get my other bits for cost price.

    So. Max gear for about 16 gold compared to repeating a dungeon for 3 days a week for 6 months-only to have that armor made vendor trash when the next expansion comes. Spot the grind.

    The question is (and I do not mean this in a snarky way, but a serious question) what will you be doing for the next six months now that you pretty much have everything this game has to offer?

    Again, I really do not mean this in a snarky way, it is something I am struggling with in the game, as much as I like it. I just am not sure I can find anything to keep me here when everything seems relatively easy to accomplish, and in very little time when compared to other games.

  • halflife25halflife25 Member Posts: 737

    It is very difficult to get what you want in GW2 just by keep playing without worrying about 'grind' or 'repetition' part.  The crafting of legendary alone will take 200+ hours so there is lot of grind at the end. Question is if you enjoy it or not. 

    For some reason people only associate word grind with 'gear based dungeons' as if  grind can not exist without it.

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    Lol Tekno for me the legendary requirement screams out to me as a BIG long term goal which I love. It is good that gw2 supports us both and that's what Anet tried to achieve.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by vigg2004

    I'm approaching level 80 in GW2, and I'm looking to the future.  I've seen several posts here indicating that there is a huge grind at endgame, be it DE's, dungeons or WvW, if you want to get good/rare gear.  Is this true?  Was GW2 not supposed to do away with grinding the same content over and over?

     

    Thanks for the info!

    There is some grinding, but it's not a requirement. It's very easy to get optimal gear in this game. Nearly all of the grind comes from being trying to obtain rare skins for weapons or armor. The amount of grind this can entail really depends on what you think looks cool, and how bad you want a certain skin.

    Basically, GW2 has a cosmetic grind. The people who play longer will generally have cooler looking stuff. However, if you have the money for it, you can also buy components for the mystic forge. Some of the best looking stuff in the game is obtained through hidden recipies in the mystic forge.

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    That's the thing halife you don't need to grind gear or anything for dungeons or Pvp. If you don't like pvp or pve then everything a person sees will be a 'grind'. In 99% of other mmorgs you are forced to do certain activities to Gain rewards that are Compulsary for progress - and that is usually dungeon repetitions.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by halflife25

    It is very difficult to get what you want in GW2 just by keep playing without worrying about 'grind' or 'repetition' part.  The crafting of legendary alone will take 200+ hours so there is lot of grind at the end. Question is if you enjoy it or not. 

    For some reason people only associate word grind with 'gear based dungeons' as if  grind can not exist without it.

    One misconception I see a lot from people, is they think that they need to get a legendary item (as if they are the best items in the game). Not so. They are simply the hardest to obtain. Tbh, most of the legendary items (imho) look like crap, but there are a few that look pretty awesome. There's a list online of hidden mystic forge items (that I think someone data mined) and there are some really cool looking stuff that you can get that way, which are just as powerful.

    As for the word 'grind', I think if people actually took a step back and looked at what they are calling a grind now, vs. what they considered a grind 2-4 years ago, they'd be shocked. Grind is quickly becoming synonymous with 'anything repetative', which is basically any videogame ever made, ever. What grind used to be, is a mundaine repeated task that was required in order to progress. GW2 doesn't have that. The 'grind' in this game is one that is completely optional. Sure there's incentives to do it, but as some have said, it's definitely a more longterm goal. You are still just as powerful w/ out a legendary, you just won't be cleaving the night sky, or shooting rainbows out of your butt.

  • halflife25halflife25 Member Posts: 737
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    That's the thing halife you don't need to grind gear or anything for dungeons or Pvp. If you don't like pvp or pve then everything a person sees will be a 'grind'. In 99% of other mmorgs you are forced to do certain activities to Gain rewards that are Compulsary for progress - and that is usually dungeon repetitions.

    You don't need to grind anything in any MMO. I have been playing MMOS for a long time and never felt that i 'have to' grind neither i was forced into it. But regardless of what i personally feel....grind is just another word for repetition.

    However, you people under estimate the attraction of skins and many would want it regardless of whether 'it is needed' or not. Also there are three tiers of armor sets and tier 3 does have better stats and looks than tier 1. Which is 'must' have for many.

  • halflife25halflife25 Member Posts: 737
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by halflife25

    It is very difficult to get what you want in GW2 just by keep playing without worrying about 'grind' or 'repetition' part.  The crafting of legendary alone will take 200+ hours so there is lot of grind at the end. Question is if you enjoy it or not. 

    For some reason people only associate word grind with 'gear based dungeons' as if  grind can not exist without it.

    One misconception I see a lot from people, is they think that they need to get a legendary item (as if they are the best items in the game). Not so. They are simply the hardest to obtain. Tbh, most of the legendary items (imho) look like crap, but there are a few that look pretty awesome. There's a list online of hidden mystic forge items (that I think someone data mined) and there are some really cool looking stuff that you can get that way, which are just as powerful.

    As for the word 'grind', I think if people actually took a step back and looked at what they are calling a grind now, vs. what they considered a grind 2-4 years ago, they'd be shocked. Grind is quickly becoming synonymous with 'anything repetative', which is basically any videogame ever made, ever. What grind used to be, is a mundaine repeated task that was required in order to progress. GW2 doesn't have that. The 'grind' in this game is one that is completely optional. Sure there's incentives to do it, but as some have said, it's definitely a more longterm goal. You are still just as powerful w/ out a legendary, you just won't be cleaving the night sky, or shooting rainbows out of your butt.

    If legendary items exist in game and are advertised as end game weapons which make you look unique and different ofcourse a lot of players would think they 'need' it. it is just how they are advertised.

    Also it is in interest of Anet that players keep playing and trying to get those weapons because lets be fair for PVE players there is not much to look for ward to once you hit 80. So legendary weapons gives them a reason to log in and play.

    However, i completely disagree that mystic forged items look better. Not even clsoe in terms of design and effects. my personal opinion ofcourse.

    As far as word 'grind' is concerned. It has always been about repeition but at some point it got associated only with 'gear progression dungeons'.  It is the asian titles which amde this word famous and i doubt at that time anyone though that the word grind was specificaly made for tier based dungeon MMOS.

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    Again you can choose to either do it or not. If you are forced to do something that is repetitive then that's a grind. If you choose to do something that is repetitive and feels Grindy and not fun then you are mad to do it - it is a game! Beyond this all games without an end point has repetition, it's a moot point.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    So for me I love these types of goals that requires repetition, it's not a grind to me. As an example though repeat farming one instance over and over in gw1 is a grind (to me) do I don't do it!

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • halflife25halflife25 Member Posts: 737
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Again you can choose to either do it or not. If you are forced to do something that is repetitive then that's a grind. If you choose to do something that is repetitive and feels Grindy and not fun then you are mad to do it - it is a game! Beyond this all games without an end point has repetition, it's a moot point.

    And that is exactly what i said.  Question is whether you enjoy the repetition or not.

    I was talking more about word grind and how it is exclusively associated only with dungeon tear based grind. Which in my opinion is not true since grind exists anywhere in game where you start feeling that you are not enjoying the repetitive tasks.

    Everytime someone says GW2 has grind, people often try to down play it by pointing towards abscense of 'gear based dungeon design'. Both are not mutually exclusive.

  • SiphaedSiphaed Member RarePosts: 1,114
    Originally posted by vigg2004

    I'm approaching level 80 in GW2, and I'm looking to the future.  I've seen several posts here indicating that there is a huge grind at endgame, be it DE's, dungeons or WvW, if you want to get good/rare gear.  Is this true?  Was GW2 not supposed to do away with grinding the same content over and over?

     

    Thanks for the info!

    No.  There's not much "grinding" unless you're trying to rush to a high vlaued target item (i.e. cultural armor, corrupted weapons, legendaries).  As for the game: just play it.


  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    That is true, im more ir less agreeing with you. the problem comes not from gw2 but from games like wow that focuses its gameplay with dungeon repetition. The majority of mmorg players are forced to grind dungeons. Gw2 has lots of repetition all over the place and as I say it is not a grind purely because it would only be a grind if you were daft enough to take part in repetitive activity that you don't find fun.

    Repetitive activity = grind if you don't want to do it.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by halflife25

    If legendary items exist in game and are advertised as end game weapons which make you look unique and different ofcourse a lot of players would think they 'need' it. it is just how they are advertised.

    Also it is in interest of Anet that players keep playing and trying to get those weapons because lets be fair for PVE players there is not much to look for ward to once you hit 80. So legendary weapons gives them a reason to log in and play.

    However, i completely disagree that mystic forged items look better. Not even clsoe in terms of design and effects. my personal opinion ofcourse.

    As far as word 'grind' is concerned. It has always been about repeition but at some point it got associated only with 'gear progression dungeons'.  It is the asian titles which amde this word famous and i doubt at that time anyone though that the word grind was specificaly made for tier based dungeon MMOS.

    Well, as you say, Anet wants people playing the game for a while. And yes, of course there's incentive. However it's not forced. And that's the key difference. You don't need them.

    It's like a high end car. You don't need it, but damn does it look cool. You want it, and unless you do something clever, it's going to take you a long time to get enough money to afford it. It's only a grind for people who get it into their heads that they 'need' to have it.

    As for the mystic forged items, of course it's all a matter of opinion. However, I think you'd be surprised. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you haven't seen a full list of what's available. (Tbh I'm not sure there is a 100% complete list atm, as there's still a lot of items that are unknown). However, for example, all of the elementalists' conjured items are actual skins in the game, and you can craft items that look the same. I.E. you can have a warrior running around permanently wielding a fiery greatsword.

    There's also items that are spectral that you can craft in the mystic forge, that each have their own effects.  There's weapons that have runes etched in them that glow and look pretty awesome. There's ones that glow different colors during different times. Etc. There's a couple foci that also look awesome. One looks like you're manipulating magics in your hand, the other basically looks like a crystal that permanently drips blood. There's some really cool items hidden in there that people haven't discovered yet. Not to mention, there's also legendary armor, which exists, but noone has even begun to figure out how to make them.

  • TdogSkalTdogSkal Member UncommonPosts: 1,244
    Originally posted by vigg2004

    I'm approaching level 80 in GW2, and I'm looking to the future.  I've seen several posts here indicating that there is a huge grind at endgame, be it DE's, dungeons or WvW, if you want to get good/rare gear.  Is this true?  Was GW2 not supposed to do away with grinding the same content over and over?

     

    Thanks for the info!

    You can grind if you choose too.

    I choice to grind Dungeons as the armor looks great.

    Once you have a lvl 80 exotic gear you have max stats.   No reason to grind gear for stats, only looks and runes/sigils.

    I am just about done with my stat gear and been grinding for look now. 

    WvW - Grind badges for PvP gear (look not stats)

    Dungeons - Each dungeon has its own set of armor and weapons with different looks.  Each dungeon has certain stats on the armor as well but no better than dropped exotic stats

    DEs -  Grind for Karma gear.

    Even the top of the line weapons and armor have the same max stats.  Once you have those max stats its all about grind for type of look you want and its not really that much grinding.    3 to 4 runs of a dungeon on explorer will get you a piece of armor

    Sooner or Later

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    I can give a really abstract example that demonstrates what I'm talking about. Imagine 2 basic arcade machines sat side by side- space invaders and asteroids. Both games are both repetitive in the extreme. Historically you can put your 10 pence in either and play the repetitive levels to try and reach a high score. This was never known as a grind - you can play either game whenever you like. Now imagine you were only allowed to play asteroids if you cleared 50 levels of space invaders first - even when you did not want to play space invaders. .. This is a grind.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

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