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End Game Grind Now Showing?

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  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    Here we go again with the misuse of the word grind. Grind = being forced to do a repetitive action that you don't want to do. For example not grinding for an armor set puts you at a disadvantage. Gw2 does not force you to do anything.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member
    Originally posted by Xasapis

    I'm not sure where the content you're referring to is tbh. If it wasn't for WvW and a good guild, I'd be looking for a different mmorpg, since the only thing left to do is to grind for legendaries. PvE content lasted me as much as the one in SW:TOR did and it is as much repeatable to somebody with 100% map completion. And lets face it, GW2 personal story is even less interesting than SW:TOR was.

    Good thing WvW is there to save the day.

     

    Of course, you can argue that SW:TOR developers spent a metric ton of money to produce as much content as a B2P cash shop game and I would agree.

     

    I'm assuming you are talking to me. The content is there, but not if you only like gear grind tread mills for content. I take it you are only playing 1 character? Have you don't world completion? You won't see just how much content there is if all you do is rush from one DE to the next and only play 1 character. Hell, each race has at least 4 different options to making at least the first half of the game a different experience. Thats content.

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    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
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    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
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  • XasapisXasapis VolosPosts: 5,561Member Uncommon

    Yes, I dislike alts tbh and since I found the personal story of my first kind of generic in nature, I don't feel inclined to roll any alts just for that. I do have 100% map completion, so I've seen pretty much everything there is to see in the open world. I've also got over 400 hours /age at this point, though the majority of them is spent in WvW. This is the only content I find non repeatable or grindy in nature.

     

    The only other repeatable content that would be interesting in other mmorpgs, dungeons, is just not appealing enough. Maybe if the dungeons resemble more the dynamic events and less a headless (tankless) chicken approach to dungeoning, I would be inclined to play. As of now, unless I decide to start the token grind for the legendaries, I don't see myself setting foot any more in them.

  • jondifooljondifool cphPosts: 1,114Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Here we go again with the misuse of the word grind. Grind = being forced to do a repetitive action that you don't want to do. For example not grinding for an armor set puts you at a disadvantage. Gw2 does not force you to do anything.

    Exsactly what the word means- and though not entirely true that Gw2 does not force you to do any grind. There isn't enough high end Zones to avoid having to repeat alot of stuff if you want to equip in top gear.

    if you stay with your lvl curve you will get to lvl 80, in a mix of green, yellow and orange-( the orange gotten from map compleation). You can get a really long way down the road if willing to mix equipment from crafting, karma, wvw and all they other sources. If going to have a complete set from one source, you will have to grind it out. Trading can go along way to accomplish this. But there is a huge differense in the wealth availble for an active Guild member and a solo player.

    Alot of players are simply not taken advantage to all what GW2 has to offer to avoid grind- and alot are willing to live with the grind to actual get a complete set from one source, instead of mixing it up.

    IMHO ArenaNet have tried to get the balance right but havent really hit it spot on, but its close. Alot will be remedied with expansions as more Highend lvl Zones for sure will make it feel less of a grind to achive your goal in the game.

     

     

     

     

     

    read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  • DakeruDakeru Posts: 1,655Member Uncommon

    Since it has been said that grind is something forced and negative and I agree to that - I have to say that I am doing a volunteer grind.

    Camping a certain and regular DE to get a lot of rare level 80 gear. Salvaging them all to farm Globs of Ectoplasm.

    My gear right now is just green tier gear which i bought for >cheap< from the tradepost. It fully suffices though, so grinding for something better IS optinonal.

    I have an entitlement delusion - because I have this strange idea that my 50$ should have the same value as anyone else's 50$
    "Your account is not entitled to the same value as a new account. Just saying you are entitled to the same as someone else because you said so is exactly what expresses your entitlement issues."

  • nsignificnsignific ljPosts: 212Member

    Any grind (in a videogame) is inherently  voluntary.

     

    If your endgame is to kill a boss that requires a specific item level - you grind it out.

    If your endgame is to dress up your toon in fancy clothes - you grind that out instead.

     

    If you feel forced to do any of the above - you've got to stop. Like, right now. Just stop playing that particular game. If you're being pressured by your guildmates / friends, and are willing to endure the grind to keep playing with them - have the decency not to cry about it here.

  • ZefireZefire lol, CAPosts: 676Member

    if u want to earn gold and get stylised items with power/precision stats u have to grind.

    I remember grinding dungeons many hours same and same thing all the time.

    When i finished i did some wvw for one day then i got bored.

  • lilHealalilHeala ZwollePosts: 513Member Uncommon

    Like others have pointed out, the grind is optional. You can do all content in game without having full exotics, dungeon or cultural gear sets. The stat difference with green or yellow items is very minimal.

    A lot of players I've seen complain about the grind are those that are still chasing gear like they're used from other games and just look at how long it takes to get it when focusing on just that and nothing else. Even though they often also tend to complain about gear progression, they're unable to let go of that mindset. Like conditioned animals (skritt?).

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,033Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by vigg2004

    I'm approaching level 80 in GW2, and I'm looking to the future.  I've seen several posts here indicating that there is a huge grind at endgame, be it DE's, dungeons or WvW, if you want to get good/rare gear.  Is this true?  Was GW2 not supposed to do away with grinding the same content over and over?

    Thanks for the info!

    Not really. I hit 80 last week, crafted my first piece of exotic endgame armor the day after.

    Basically you need 5 ecto for each piece, and as I have leather I also need a few pieces of gossamer silk and some hardened leather. Leather did cost me 34 copper a bit (I needed 10 bits for my jacket) and gosammer silk was expensive, around 1.5 silver each (I needed 20 bits). Then I also used 15s or so for thread.

    Ecto cost around 18 silver each, but you get it cheaper by using a Black lion salvage kit on high level rare and exotic items. I used 4 rare lvl 75-80 drops to get 5 ectos but then I might have been a little lucky. A master salvage kit means you need twice as many rares to get the ectos.

    So, no it is not really expensive if you can craft the gear or know someone who can. 1 gold for the ecto, and the rest actually drop in Orr and Frostgorge.

    What is grindy and expensive is legendary weapons and dungeon gear but they are not really better than the crafted exo gear.

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member

    I'm full exotics now on my "main" warrior, and I never did grind anything. Crafted exotics.

    There's nothing even remotely close to the grinds which are necessary in any of the WoW/EQ clones at max level to become competitive in PvE and PvP. And there's absolutely no "tier" grind.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    I'm 6 exotic Armor, with only accessories left which is planned. I got those by just playing the game normally I.e a mixture of everything. 82k karma, 42 of which I got levelling to 80 and 14 gold gathered since the game started. I have gathered all gems on way so close to 400 jc to get my other bits for cost price.

    So. Max gear for about 16 gold compared to repeating a dungeon for 3 days a week for 6 months-only to have that armor made vendor trash when the next expansion comes. Spot the grind.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Calgary, ABPosts: 2,156Member


    Originally posted by Elandir90
    i guess the lack of grind that's driving people off, they don't have a "goal", no treadmill to run. 
    I find this funny, because the grind treadmill is what runs ME off, the endgame is actually decent in this game, I haven't covered much of many maps yet and haven't run all the dungeons yet and I love pvp'ing (and without subs, I'll be doing it for a long time).

    image
    image

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Thankfully my so far #3 looking set I just got cheap while leveling (it's the Lionguard heavy armor look) and my #2 set is purchasable w/ gold at lvl 60 (human heavy Tier 2 cultural) while my #4 is also $ purchase (human Tier 3 heavy cultural)

    so the only set I have to grind for is the dungeon set from CM (heavy)

    For looks anyway.

    Been trying to save my karma for 80 purchases of exotics.

    Anyone know if you can get the Lionguard shield + weapon models?

  • NaralNaral Solway, MNPosts: 751Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    I'm 6 exotic Armor, with only accessories left which is planned. I got those by just playing the game normally I.e a mixture of everything. 82k karma, 42 of which I got levelling to 80 and 14 gold gathered since the game started. I have gathered all gems on way so close to 400 jc to get my other bits for cost price.

    So. Max gear for about 16 gold compared to repeating a dungeon for 3 days a week for 6 months-only to have that armor made vendor trash when the next expansion comes. Spot the grind.

    The question is (and I do not mean this in a snarky way, but a serious question) what will you be doing for the next six months now that you pretty much have everything this game has to offer?

    Again, I really do not mean this in a snarky way, it is something I am struggling with in the game, as much as I like it. I just am not sure I can find anything to keep me here when everything seems relatively easy to accomplish, and in very little time when compared to other games.

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member

    It is very difficult to get what you want in GW2 just by keep playing without worrying about 'grind' or 'repetition' part.  The crafting of legendary alone will take 200+ hours so there is lot of grind at the end. Question is if you enjoy it or not. 

    For some reason people only associate word grind with 'gear based dungeons' as if  grind can not exist without it.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    Lol Tekno for me the legendary requirement screams out to me as a BIG long term goal which I love. It is good that gw2 supports us both and that's what Anet tried to achieve.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by vigg2004

    I'm approaching level 80 in GW2, and I'm looking to the future.  I've seen several posts here indicating that there is a huge grind at endgame, be it DE's, dungeons or WvW, if you want to get good/rare gear.  Is this true?  Was GW2 not supposed to do away with grinding the same content over and over?

     

    Thanks for the info!

    There is some grinding, but it's not a requirement. It's very easy to get optimal gear in this game. Nearly all of the grind comes from being trying to obtain rare skins for weapons or armor. The amount of grind this can entail really depends on what you think looks cool, and how bad you want a certain skin.

    Basically, GW2 has a cosmetic grind. The people who play longer will generally have cooler looking stuff. However, if you have the money for it, you can also buy components for the mystic forge. Some of the best looking stuff in the game is obtained through hidden recipies in the mystic forge.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    That's the thing halife you don't need to grind gear or anything for dungeons or Pvp. If you don't like pvp or pve then everything a person sees will be a 'grind'. In 99% of other mmorgs you are forced to do certain activities to Gain rewards that are Compulsary for progress - and that is usually dungeon repetitions.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by halflife25

    It is very difficult to get what you want in GW2 just by keep playing without worrying about 'grind' or 'repetition' part.  The crafting of legendary alone will take 200+ hours so there is lot of grind at the end. Question is if you enjoy it or not. 

    For some reason people only associate word grind with 'gear based dungeons' as if  grind can not exist without it.

    One misconception I see a lot from people, is they think that they need to get a legendary item (as if they are the best items in the game). Not so. They are simply the hardest to obtain. Tbh, most of the legendary items (imho) look like crap, but there are a few that look pretty awesome. There's a list online of hidden mystic forge items (that I think someone data mined) and there are some really cool looking stuff that you can get that way, which are just as powerful.

    As for the word 'grind', I think if people actually took a step back and looked at what they are calling a grind now, vs. what they considered a grind 2-4 years ago, they'd be shocked. Grind is quickly becoming synonymous with 'anything repetative', which is basically any videogame ever made, ever. What grind used to be, is a mundaine repeated task that was required in order to progress. GW2 doesn't have that. The 'grind' in this game is one that is completely optional. Sure there's incentives to do it, but as some have said, it's definitely a more longterm goal. You are still just as powerful w/ out a legendary, you just won't be cleaving the night sky, or shooting rainbows out of your butt.

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    That's the thing halife you don't need to grind gear or anything for dungeons or Pvp. If you don't like pvp or pve then everything a person sees will be a 'grind'. In 99% of other mmorgs you are forced to do certain activities to Gain rewards that are Compulsary for progress - and that is usually dungeon repetitions.

    You don't need to grind anything in any MMO. I have been playing MMOS for a long time and never felt that i 'have to' grind neither i was forced into it. But regardless of what i personally feel....grind is just another word for repetition.

    However, you people under estimate the attraction of skins and many would want it regardless of whether 'it is needed' or not. Also there are three tiers of armor sets and tier 3 does have better stats and looks than tier 1. Which is 'must' have for many.

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by halflife25

    It is very difficult to get what you want in GW2 just by keep playing without worrying about 'grind' or 'repetition' part.  The crafting of legendary alone will take 200+ hours so there is lot of grind at the end. Question is if you enjoy it or not. 

    For some reason people only associate word grind with 'gear based dungeons' as if  grind can not exist without it.

    One misconception I see a lot from people, is they think that they need to get a legendary item (as if they are the best items in the game). Not so. They are simply the hardest to obtain. Tbh, most of the legendary items (imho) look like crap, but there are a few that look pretty awesome. There's a list online of hidden mystic forge items (that I think someone data mined) and there are some really cool looking stuff that you can get that way, which are just as powerful.

    As for the word 'grind', I think if people actually took a step back and looked at what they are calling a grind now, vs. what they considered a grind 2-4 years ago, they'd be shocked. Grind is quickly becoming synonymous with 'anything repetative', which is basically any videogame ever made, ever. What grind used to be, is a mundaine repeated task that was required in order to progress. GW2 doesn't have that. The 'grind' in this game is one that is completely optional. Sure there's incentives to do it, but as some have said, it's definitely a more longterm goal. You are still just as powerful w/ out a legendary, you just won't be cleaving the night sky, or shooting rainbows out of your butt.

    If legendary items exist in game and are advertised as end game weapons which make you look unique and different ofcourse a lot of players would think they 'need' it. it is just how they are advertised.

    Also it is in interest of Anet that players keep playing and trying to get those weapons because lets be fair for PVE players there is not much to look for ward to once you hit 80. So legendary weapons gives them a reason to log in and play.

    However, i completely disagree that mystic forged items look better. Not even clsoe in terms of design and effects. my personal opinion ofcourse.

    As far as word 'grind' is concerned. It has always been about repeition but at some point it got associated only with 'gear progression dungeons'.  It is the asian titles which amde this word famous and i doubt at that time anyone though that the word grind was specificaly made for tier based dungeon MMOS.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    Again you can choose to either do it or not. If you are forced to do something that is repetitive then that's a grind. If you choose to do something that is repetitive and feels Grindy and not fun then you are mad to do it - it is a game! Beyond this all games without an end point has repetition, it's a moot point.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    So for me I love these types of goals that requires repetition, it's not a grind to me. As an example though repeat farming one instance over and over in gw1 is a grind (to me) do I don't do it!

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Again you can choose to either do it or not. If you are forced to do something that is repetitive then that's a grind. If you choose to do something that is repetitive and feels Grindy and not fun then you are mad to do it - it is a game! Beyond this all games without an end point has repetition, it's a moot point.

    And that is exactly what i said.  Question is whether you enjoy the repetition or not.

    I was talking more about word grind and how it is exclusively associated only with dungeon tear based grind. Which in my opinion is not true since grind exists anywhere in game where you start feeling that you are not enjoying the repetitive tasks.

    Everytime someone says GW2 has grind, people often try to down play it by pointing towards abscense of 'gear based dungeon design'. Both are not mutually exclusive.

  • SiphaedSiphaed Everywhere!Posts: 879Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by vigg2004

    I'm approaching level 80 in GW2, and I'm looking to the future.  I've seen several posts here indicating that there is a huge grind at endgame, be it DE's, dungeons or WvW, if you want to get good/rare gear.  Is this true?  Was GW2 not supposed to do away with grinding the same content over and over?

     

    Thanks for the info!

    No.  There's not much "grinding" unless you're trying to rush to a high vlaued target item (i.e. cultural armor, corrupted weapons, legendaries).  As for the game: just play it.


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