It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.
"Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here
During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”
Seems to me you missread.
The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).
It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.
It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october
That is how Bioware rolled, in the past - they take their time creating gaming masterpieces, but EA rushed them. Bioware no longer had the luxury of taking their time with this
They could not manage it well, because EA was breathing down their necks
Others MMO have roundly 4 years, $50ish millions, 200 ish persons
6 years, $200 millions, 800 persons is a luxury.
And contrary to what you are stating EA gave free reign on the development of the game till the last year when they realized BioWare was nowhere to be ready to have any progress made.
It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.
"Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here
During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”
Seems to me you missread.
The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).
It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.
It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october
That is how Bioware rolled, in the past - they take their time creating gaming masterpieces, but EA rushed them. Bioware no longer had the luxury of taking their time with this
They could not manage it well, because EA was breathing down their necks
Others MMO have roundly 4 years, $50ish millions, 200 ish persons
6 years, $200 millions, 800 persons is a luxury.
And contrary to what you are stating EA gave free reign on the development of the game till the last year when they realized BioWare was nowhere to be ready to have any progress made.
You seriously think that Bioware managed to create awesom games for years, and now of all a sudden they have EA to work with, that Bioware alone are really awful developers and that pre-EA, all their awesome games were just flukes?
It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.
"Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here
During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”
Seems to me you missread.
The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).
It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.
It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october
That is how Bioware rolled, in the past - they take their time creating gaming masterpieces, but EA rushed them. Bioware no longer had the luxury of taking their time with this
They could not manage it well, because EA was breathing down their necks
Others MMO have roundly 4 years, $50ish millions, 200 ish persons
6 years, $200 millions, 800 persons is a luxury.
And contrary to what you are stating EA gave free reign on the development of the game till the last year when they realized BioWare was nowhere to be ready to have any progress made.
You seriously think that Bioware managed to create awesom games for years, and now of all a sudden they have EA to work with, that Bioware alone are really awful developers and that pre-EA, all their awesome games were just flukes?
To be fair BG was nice and Kotor too but:
Planescape torment, made without BioWare was way better than BG and it was made by BlackIsle.
Kotor was fine but Kotor II was even better, story and game play wise, even if you consider it was rushed out of the door by LA with half finished story. Now for Kotor, everyones agrees on the story was nice and the combat just fair.
In terms of RP, The Witcher is way better than all BioWare story and game play as Risen is better too.
So BioWare indeed made nice story but not that great games and not even the best story.
I'm not saying they are bad, they are nice but not top notch.
Back to TOR story wise most of TOR scripts are bland, cliche and unappealing.
It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.
"Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here
During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”
Seems to me you missread.
The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).
It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.
It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october
That is how Bioware rolled, in the past - they take their time creating gaming masterpieces, but EA rushed them. Bioware no longer had the luxury of taking their time with this
They could not manage it well, because EA was breathing down their necks
Others MMO have roundly 4 years, $50ish millions, 200 ish persons
6 years, $200 millions, 800 persons is a luxury.
And contrary to what you are stating EA gave free reign on the development of the game till the last year when they realized BioWare was nowhere to be ready to have any progress made.
You seriously think that Bioware managed to create awesom games for years, and now of all a sudden they have EA to work with, that Bioware alone are really awful developers and that pre-EA, all their awesome games were just flukes?
To be fair BG was nice and Kotor too but:
Planescape torment, made without BioWare was way better than BG and it was made by BlackIsle.
Kotor was fine but Kotor II was even better, story and game play wise, even if you consider it was rushed out of the door by LA with half finished story. Now for Kotor, everyones agrees on the story was nice and the combat just fair.
In terms of RP, The Witcher is way better than all BioWare story and game play as Risen is better too.
So BioWare indeed made nice story but not that great games and not even the best story.
I'm not saying they are bad, they are nice but not top notch.
Back to TOR story wise most of TOR scripts are bland, cliche and unappealing.
I think Bioware (rip) got it's almost legendary status thanks to Baldurs Gate 2.
just like blizzard has with Diablo 2 and Valve with Halff life.
And the fact old farts like to give those games more credit then they probably deserve.
It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.
"Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here
During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”
Seems to me you missread.
The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).
It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.
It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october
That is how Bioware rolled, in the past - they take their time creating gaming masterpieces, but EA rushed them. Bioware no longer had the luxury of taking their time with this
They could not manage it well, because EA was breathing down their necks
Others MMO have roundly 4 years, $50ish millions, 200 ish persons
6 years, $200 millions, 800 persons is a luxury.
And contrary to what you are stating EA gave free reign on the development of the game till the last year when they realized BioWare was nowhere to be ready to have any progress made.
You seriously think that Bioware managed to create awesom games for years, and now of all a sudden they have EA to work with, that Bioware alone are really awful developers and that pre-EA, all their awesome games were just flukes?
To be fair BG was nice and Kotor too but:
Planescape torment, made without BioWare was way better than BG and it was made by BlackIsle.
Kotor was fine but Kotor II was even better, story and game play wise, even if you consider it was rushed out of the door by LA with half finished story. Now for Kotor, everyones agrees on the story was nice and the combat just fair.
In terms of RP, The Witcher is way better than all BioWare story and game play as Risen is better too.
So BioWare indeed made nice story but not that great games and not even the best story.
I'm not saying they are bad, they are nice but not top notch.
Back to TOR story wise most of TOR scripts are bland, cliche and unappealing.
You are the odd one out then / in the minority, as many many people / the majority found Bioware games awesome and why it sold 2 million at launch. If the game was made by Cryptic or SOE, it would not have sold well at all. Plus I doubt a Risen or a Witcher MMO would sell as well either. Not that that they are bad games, but Bioware had built up a hugely better reputation.
Also KOTOR > KOTOR 2 and KOTOR 2 was by Obsidian not Bioware.
TOR can not be viewed as a Bioware project any more, it had too many extra people on it, especially noobs straight out of school They may be the best but they certainly would not have had any / much experience, especially Bioware experience.
If Bioware were in total control, they would not have released the game until it was ready, even if it meant not releasing until 2014 or later, and the last 6 months would not have been done cutting the game down, as Bioware were all about creating awesome games, EA is all about making money.
If Bioware kept the game within their own budget, and did not have the millions EA chucked at it, the game probably would have been smaller, but a lot lot better.
EA just wanted to hit Activision/Blizzard where it hurt, and Bioware got caught up in the middle
It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.
"Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here
During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”
Seems to me you missread.
The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).
It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.
It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october
That is how Bioware rolled, in the past - they take their time creating gaming masterpieces, but EA rushed them. Bioware no longer had the luxury of taking their time with this
They could not manage it well, because EA was breathing down their necks
Others MMO have roundly 4 years, $50ish millions, 200 ish persons
6 years, $200 millions, 800 persons is a luxury.
And contrary to what you are stating EA gave free reign on the development of the game till the last year when they realized BioWare was nowhere to be ready to have any progress made.
You seriously think that Bioware managed to create awesom games for years, and now of all a sudden they have EA to work with, that Bioware alone are really awful developers and that pre-EA, all their awesome games were just flukes?
To be fair BG was nice and Kotor too but:
Planescape torment, made without BioWare was way better than BG and it was made by BlackIsle.
Kotor was fine but Kotor II was even better, story and game play wise, even if you consider it was rushed out of the door by LA with half finished story. Now for Kotor, everyones agrees on the story was nice and the combat just fair.
In terms of RP, The Witcher is way better than all BioWare story and game play as Risen is better too.
So BioWare indeed made nice story but not that great games and not even the best story.
I'm not saying they are bad, they are nice but not top notch.
Back to TOR story wise most of TOR scripts are bland, cliche and unappealing.
You are the odd one out then / in the minority, as many many people / the majority found Bioware games awesome and why it sold 2 million at launch. If the game was made by Cryptic or SOE, it would not have sold well at all. Plus I doubt a Risen or a Witcher MMO would sell as well either. Not that that they are bad games, but Bioware had built up a hugely better reputation.
Also KOTOR > KOTOR 2 and KOTOR 2 was by Obsidian not Bioware.
TOR can not be viewed as a Bioware project any more, it had too many extra people on it, especially noobs straight out of school They may be the best but they certainly would not have had any / much experience, especially Bioware experience.
If Bioware were in total control, they would not have released the game until it was ready, even if it meant not releasing until 2014 or later, and the last 6 months would not have been done cutting the game down, as Bioware were all about creating awesome games, EA is all about making money.
If Bioware kept the game within their own budget, and did not have the millions EA chucked at it, the game probably would have been smaller, but a lot lot better.
EA just wanted to hit Activision/Blizzard where it hurt, and Bioware got caught up in the middle
You're missing the point entirely. Time had nothing to do with it. They had plenty of time. 5+ years. Their overall design philosophy was flawed from the start. This was their first MMO, so no amount of time would change that. Bioware failed at making a stellar MMO to hold people's interest. Read my list again, and realize how the design of the game effected the outcome of what we see now. Time had nothing to do with it. Planning, designing, managing, budgeting, etc.; was what they failed at.
Blizzard pretty much died the day Activision got involved too . The only difference is it had WoW in place by that time which is a bit like a zombie it just wont die but the life it had is gone forever .
Originally posted by ShakyMo Origin Bullfrog Maxis Westwood Firaxis Mythic Bioware
Who's EA going to buy up and ruin next then?
EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry
Oh lordy, it reads like a serial killer's "best of" list. Origin....the company that almost single handedly invented the computer RPG with the "Ultima" series. Bullfrog, the company that defined the "sim" genre of games. Maxis, who took the "sim" in "sim" genre literally and created what was probably the first game to suck in non-gamers. Westwood. Command & Conquer. 'Nuff said. Firaxis was essentially Sid Meier, and if you don't know who Sid Meir is, then you need to get off the internet right now. Mythic was the first (and possibly only) company that ever managed to get massive PvPvP right. Bioware is just the latest victim.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Origin Bullfrog Maxis Westwood Firaxis Mythic Bioware
Who's EA going to buy up and ruin next then?
EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry
Runic?
Fingers crossed that they go after Zynga....
LOL they can have zynga and tear it up that would make me so happy to see all those crapy facebook games go poof. I swear every time I get a game invite on facebook I want to defriend that person who sent it.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Origin Bullfrog Maxis Westwood Firaxis Mythic Bioware
Who's EA going to buy up and ruin next then?
EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry
Runic?
Fingers crossed that they go after Zynga....
Firaxis is owned by take 2 interactive or 2KGames and is not part of EA....yet. EA did try to buy take 2 in 2008 but the board told them to take a hike
It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.
"Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here
During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”
Seems to me you missread.
The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).
It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.
It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october
That is how Bioware rolled, in the past - they take their time creating gaming masterpieces, but EA rushed them. Bioware no longer had the luxury of taking their time with this
They could not manage it well, because EA was breathing down their necks
Others MMO have roundly 4 years, $50ish millions, 200 ish persons
6 years, $200 millions, 800 persons is a luxury.
And contrary to what you are stating EA gave free reign on the development of the game till the last year when they realized BioWare was nowhere to be ready to have any progress made.
You seriously think that Bioware managed to create awesom games for years, and now of all a sudden they have EA to work with, that Bioware alone are really awful developers and that pre-EA, all their awesome games were just flukes?
To be fair BG was nice and Kotor too but:
Planescape torment, made without BioWare was way better than BG and it was made by BlackIsle.
Kotor was fine but Kotor II was even better, story and game play wise, even if you consider it was rushed out of the door by LA with half finished story. Now for Kotor, everyones agrees on the story was nice and the combat just fair.
In terms of RP, The Witcher is way better than all BioWare story and game play as Risen is better too.
So BioWare indeed made nice story but not that great games and not even the best story.
I'm not saying they are bad, they are nice but not top notch.
Back to TOR story wise most of TOR scripts are bland, cliche and unappealing.
You are the odd one out then / in the minority, as many many people / the majority found Bioware games awesome and why it sold 2 million at launch. If the game was made by Cryptic or SOE, it would not have sold well at all. Plus I doubt a Risen or a Witcher MMO would sell as well either. Not that that they are bad games, but Bioware had built up a hugely better reputation.
Also KOTOR > KOTOR 2 and KOTOR 2 was by Obsidian not Bioware.
TOR can not be viewed as a Bioware project any more, it had too many extra people on it, especially noobs straight out of school They may be the best but they certainly would not have had any / much experience, especially Bioware experience.
If Bioware were in total control, they would not have released the game until it was ready, even if it meant not releasing until 2014 or later, and the last 6 months would not have been done cutting the game down, as Bioware were all about creating awesome games, EA is all about making money.
If Bioware kept the game within their own budget, and did not have the millions EA chucked at it, the game probably would have been smaller, but a lot lot better.
EA just wanted to hit Activision/Blizzard where it hurt, and Bioware got caught up in the middle
You're missing the point entirely. Time had nothing to do with it. They had plenty of time. 5+ years. Their overall design philosophy was flawed from the start. This was their first MMO, so no amount of time would change that. Bioware failed at making a stellar MMO to hold people's interest. Read my list again, and realize how the design of the game effected the outcome of what we see now. Time had nothing to do with it. Planning, designing, managing, budgeting, etc.; was what they failed at.
They may not have done a MMO before but Mythic did, and they were part of the team, and the main point is it was not just Bioware but a whole load of other people getting it done as well
"Too many cooks spoil the broth"
Time was relevant, as it proportionate to the size of the game which was HUGE. 5+ years was apparently not enough time for it. If Bioware had just their budget to work with, then the game would have been smaller, but it would have come out a lot lot better. They managed to "plan, design, manage, budget" all their other games OK. Why not this one? EA is why - They poured too much money into it, and was not going to let Bioware do it alone.
Originally posted by Langsdorff Going on the first few posts, this is yet another TOR, Bioware/EA bashing thread.
After ME3 and SWTOR can you really blame people? I mean I saw SWTOR coming from a mile away and after 1 beta weekend I gave up on it completely and I still bought ME3 as sort of a sendoff to ME1. People are pissed and rightfuly so but considering the time it would take for EA to die it's better for people to bitch, moan and complain somewhere and slowly get the counter shitball rolling against Turd EA.
Super: I'm not sure the people left at mythic had made a mmo before. Many left when they got wind of ea getting involved Most of the old management were push out the door shortly after So you had people like Jeff hickman (csr turned manager / lead designer), Gabe amangetello (marketing dept guy turned game designer) and Paul barnet (marketing guy from games workshop turned game designer) running war. None of the war management worked on daoc except marc Jacobs who was elbowed out and Jeff hickman / Carrie gouskous who dealt with support / in game issues / forums.
Originally posted by Azaqin My point exactly. Isn't it a sad comment on the industry that Zynga is one of the most profitable game companies in history?
EA can't be blamed for Zynga's problems but there are parallels: another loss predicted for the upcoming quarter; the same unrealistic predictions from Wedbush Securities; companies being purchased and then failing to live up to the premium price paid.
Following a stellar support from SWG fans, SWTOR was created, and it was met with a lackluster following. SWTOR just didn't have elements that would actually make this game feel like Star Wars. Sadly, it felt more like a WoW clone. But it was a WoW clone:
....
Never enjoyed any game more then swtor. Incredible sw feeling every second just staying in game. And have witnessed release of first sw movie from first hand. Never ever played any game in my life for 7 to 8 months strait without interruptions on daily basis. Maybe have failed to retain more subscribers. According to my personal experience this could be only due to broken pvp and end game. Two areas to which I could not care less. For the rest all the best.
After server merge many areas are again full. I hope for some expansion for all of my 16 alts, 4 in rep in 4 in emp maxed out, rest waiting.
Mommentarely in pausing from swtor (but stil will continue to pay sub as support, so much I love this game) and have played again CO, then TSW, GW2, ... and of course now Pandas. And if somebody says some game is clone of wow ... well in my eyes this can be only meant as compliment.
And swtor and wow for sure share one common thing: no other games have so many haters. Must be very good then.
I wouldn't blame everything in EA.. Bioware staff is just as much to blame as EA., when it comes to the TOR debackle.. I personally think Bioware saw they were as high as they were going to get in value.. and then SOLD OUT for money.. Companies often peak in performance, and if the owners are smart, they'll sell before their value drops.. Business is Business.. It's all a gamble in the end.. Bioware played the game of profit like any other company would and does..
I still have not seen this WoW-Clone talk actually ingame, sure some feature's are similar, but SWtOR does NOT give me the feeling as if I am playing a clone-like game. Else I would have played WoW longer then I did.
I also do not agree that SWtOR doesn't feel like a Star Wars game cause to me it surely feels like a Star Wars GAME. Unfortunaly for me it doesn't feel like a Star Wars MMORPG.
Seeing people say WoW-Clone in certain games tells me more about HOW people seem to play a game then it tells something about the game.
Also Bioware has 7 gamestudio's worldwide.
Everything SWtOR is we already could read allot about before release, kinda the reason I never bought the game on release, but am enjoying the GAME for nearly 3 months now, started with the Free till lvl 15, and actually bought a 60-day time card to see if the full GAME might give me pleasure, and it does. Again I state to me the game fails as a MMORPG, but regardless it's still a very good GAME, I just have to go in with a different mindset then with the mindset of expecations of a MMORPG.
But to be on topic Bioware is still there with 7 studio's.
And lets not forget as gamers there are so many more people still enjoying games from EA, including on some games even me.
But then again if I let my imagination run wild in how I would like to see a game being made then no actuall released game would even come close to what I actually would love. But many games do have certain elements I do like/love (gamewise)
Comments
Others MMO have roundly 4 years, $50ish millions, 200 ish persons
6 years, $200 millions, 800 persons is a luxury.
And contrary to what you are stating EA gave free reign on the development of the game till the last year when they realized BioWare was nowhere to be ready to have any progress made.
You seriously think that Bioware managed to create awesom games for years, and now of all a sudden they have EA to work with, that Bioware alone are really awful developers and that pre-EA, all their awesome games were just flukes?
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
To be fair BG was nice and Kotor too but:
Planescape torment, made without BioWare was way better than BG and it was made by BlackIsle.
Kotor was fine but Kotor II was even better, story and game play wise, even if you consider it was rushed out of the door by LA with half finished story. Now for Kotor, everyones agrees on the story was nice and the combat just fair.
In terms of RP, The Witcher is way better than all BioWare story and game play as Risen is better too.
So BioWare indeed made nice story but not that great games and not even the best story.
I'm not saying they are bad, they are nice but not top notch.
Back to TOR story wise most of TOR scripts are bland, cliche and unappealing.
I think Bioware (rip) got it's almost legendary status thanks to Baldurs Gate 2.
just like blizzard has with Diablo 2 and Valve with Halff life.
And the fact old farts like to give those games more credit then they probably deserve.
You are the odd one out then / in the minority, as many many people / the majority found Bioware games awesome and why it sold 2 million at launch. If the game was made by Cryptic or SOE, it would not have sold well at all. Plus I doubt a Risen or a Witcher MMO would sell as well either. Not that that they are bad games, but Bioware had built up a hugely better reputation.
Also KOTOR > KOTOR 2 and KOTOR 2 was by Obsidian not Bioware.
TOR can not be viewed as a Bioware project any more, it had too many extra people on it, especially noobs straight out of school They may be the best but they certainly would not have had any / much experience, especially Bioware experience.
If Bioware were in total control, they would not have released the game until it was ready, even if it meant not releasing until 2014 or later, and the last 6 months would not have been done cutting the game down, as Bioware were all about creating awesome games, EA is all about making money.
If Bioware kept the game within their own budget, and did not have the millions EA chucked at it, the game probably would have been smaller, but a lot lot better.
EA just wanted to hit Activision/Blizzard where it hurt, and Bioware got caught up in the middle
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
You're missing the point entirely. Time had nothing to do with it. They had plenty of time. 5+ years. Their overall design philosophy was flawed from the start. This was their first MMO, so no amount of time would change that. Bioware failed at making a stellar MMO to hold people's interest. Read my list again, and realize how the design of the game effected the outcome of what we see now. Time had nothing to do with it. Planning, designing, managing, budgeting, etc.; was what they failed at.
Nothing new or original in the op. Boring.
The game, however, continues to humm along.
Ahnog
Hokey religions are no replacement for a good blaster at your side.
Runic?
Oh lordy, it reads like a serial killer's "best of" list. Origin....the company that almost single handedly invented the computer RPG with the "Ultima" series. Bullfrog, the company that defined the "sim" genre of games. Maxis, who took the "sim" in "sim" genre literally and created what was probably the first game to suck in non-gamers. Westwood. Command & Conquer. 'Nuff said. Firaxis was essentially Sid Meier, and if you don't know who Sid Meir is, then you need to get off the internet right now. Mythic was the first (and possibly only) company that ever managed to get massive PvPvP right. Bioware is just the latest victim.
Fingers crossed that they go after Zynga....
LOL they can have zynga and tear it up that would make me so happy to see all those crapy facebook games go poof. I swear every time I get a game invite on facebook I want to defriend that person who sent it.
Firaxis is owned by take 2 interactive or 2KGames and is not part of EA....yet. EA did try to buy take 2 in 2008 but the board told them to take a hike
They may not have done a MMO before but Mythic did, and they were part of the team, and the main point is it was not just Bioware but a whole load of other people getting it done as well
"Too many cooks spoil the broth"
Time was relevant, as it proportionate to the size of the game which was HUGE. 5+ years was apparently not enough time for it. If Bioware had just their budget to work with, then the game would have been smaller, but it would have come out a lot lot better. They managed to "plan, design, manage, budget" all their other games OK. Why not this one? EA is why - They poured too much money into it, and was not going to let Bioware do it alone.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Langsdorff
After ME3 and SWTOR can you really blame people? I mean I saw SWTOR coming from a mile away and after 1 beta weekend I gave up on it completely and I still bought ME3 as sort of a sendoff to ME1. People are pissed and rightfuly so but considering the time it would take for EA to die it's better for people to bitch, moan and complain somewhere and slowly get the counter shitball rolling against Turd EA.
I'm not sure the people left at mythic had made a mmo before.
Many left when they got wind of ea getting involved
Most of the old management were push out the door shortly after
So you had people like Jeff hickman (csr turned manager / lead designer), Gabe amangetello (marketing dept guy turned game designer) and Paul barnet (marketing guy from games workshop turned game designer) running war. None of the war management worked on daoc except marc Jacobs who was elbowed out and Jeff hickman / Carrie gouskous who dealt with support / in game issues / forums.
thats why i banned allg ames thath as todo with EA
if i can dl it for free (the ones that realy interest me) then i wont bother
EA can't be blamed for Zynga's problems but there are parallels: another loss predicted for the upcoming quarter; the same unrealistic predictions from Wedbush Securities; companies being purchased and then failing to live up to the premium price paid.
Never enjoyed any game more then swtor. Incredible sw feeling every second just staying in game. And have witnessed release of first sw movie from first hand. Never ever played any game in my life for 7 to 8 months strait without interruptions on daily basis. Maybe have failed to retain more subscribers. According to my personal experience this could be only due to broken pvp and end game. Two areas to which I could not care less. For the rest all the best.
After server merge many areas are again full. I hope for some expansion for all of my 16 alts, 4 in rep in 4 in emp maxed out, rest waiting.
Mommentarely in pausing from swtor (but stil will continue to pay sub as support, so much I love this game) and have played again CO, then TSW, GW2, ... and of course now Pandas. And if somebody says some game is clone of wow ... well in my eyes this can be only meant as compliment.
And swtor and wow for sure share one common thing: no other games have so many haters. Must be very good then.
the guys who make oddworld games were approached by EA to pretty much buy them out.
heres their responce http://www.cinemablend.com/games/EA-Denies-Oddworld-Buyout-Recommends-Lithium-Oddworld-Dev-47658.html
I still have not seen this WoW-Clone talk actually ingame, sure some feature's are similar, but SWtOR does NOT give me the feeling as if I am playing a clone-like game. Else I would have played WoW longer then I did.
I also do not agree that SWtOR doesn't feel like a Star Wars game cause to me it surely feels like a Star Wars GAME. Unfortunaly for me it doesn't feel like a Star Wars MMORPG.
Seeing people say WoW-Clone in certain games tells me more about HOW people seem to play a game then it tells something about the game.
Also Bioware has 7 gamestudio's worldwide.
Everything SWtOR is we already could read allot about before release, kinda the reason I never bought the game on release, but am enjoying the GAME for nearly 3 months now, started with the Free till lvl 15, and actually bought a 60-day time card to see if the full GAME might give me pleasure, and it does. Again I state to me the game fails as a MMORPG, but regardless it's still a very good GAME, I just have to go in with a different mindset then with the mindset of expecations of a MMORPG.
But to be on topic Bioware is still there with 7 studio's.
And lets not forget as gamers there are so many more people still enjoying games from EA, including on some games even me.
But then again if I let my imagination run wild in how I would like to see a game being made then no actuall released game would even come close to what I actually would love. But many games do have certain elements I do like/love (gamewise)