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This video explains what is wrong with WoW today,

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Comments

  • sfc1971sfc1971 UtrechtPosts: 421Member
    Originally posted by 7star

    I played solid for 2 years after BC and on and off for 3 more years. I unsubbed and uninstalled 3 days ago. I was saddened by what I saw. I'm not bagging on WoW, but it is not the same game it was -- AT ALL.

     

    I'm not saying it's "bad." It's just not for me. My guild and everyone I knew or met who played WoW is gone. They moved on. 

     

    From my experience up to now, the game is not the same because -- especially because -- the community is not the same. I realize things change, games change and "evolve." But the direction WoW has taken discourages community and communication. It's all about grabbing the lewts as fast as possible and using other people to help you achieve that end only because it is necessary to have others help you. That is not community building. 

     

    And other people are necessary to show your stuff off to. That's the only other reason you need people around in the current iteration of WoW. It was a sad a lonely experience for me -- ironic because the queues on my server were longer than ever. 

     

    That's what made me sad about WoW. We aren't going to change it. There is a new generation of gamers who are not like the first generation of WoW players, so WoW will not go back to how it was. It's time for me to move on. That's all.

    That laughter you are hearing? That is a million EQ/UO/ETC players laughing their ass off. 

    The community off the MMO light for 12yr olds has gone downhill?

    HOW?

    It reminds me of when I went from playing Quake online to Grand Prix Legends (racing game). The difference was amazing. Instead of trash talking, if you won a race in GPL, you got comments like "Nice driving" and "Well done!". 

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by JoeyMMO
    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    The major problem with this guy's video 2 minutes in is that he starts insinuating that the journey means the same thing to everyone as it does to him.  His examples rely almost entirely on achieving world firsts or being one of the view to complete a difficult raid encounter.  What about those of us who don't give two flips about  raid-based achievement?  What about those of us who just enjoyed leveling characters with buddies then running some casual raids on the side?  I've played WoW since launch, but I really got into it near the end of TBC, and I can say that I certainly enjoyed my journey.

    This guy comes off as a crybaby ex-WoW raider who is upset because he can't feel his e-penis getting hard every time he walks into Stormwind with his high item level purples.  Everyone has them now, so he no longer feels special.  Because his entire sense of enjoyment of the game is derived from its ability to make him feel superior, he no longer has any reason to enjoy WoW.

     I totally agree with this post. Special snowflakes are no longer that special. Nuff said.

    The guy is talking about world firsts or difficult encounters because he wants something to aim for, a challenge.

     

    But yeah, slagging the guy off or anyone who enjoys difficult content, that really goes a long way to giving you both a valid argument....

     

    Other people seem to be going on about "theres nothing wrong with opening up content for the non hardcores", er well there is masses of content that the vast majority of people can partake in and enjoy. What exactly is wrong with having some content that is actually difficult to get into? We are not talking about 90% of dungeons being impossble for most to do, we are talking about one or two.

     

    MMO's are meant to appeal to a spectrum of players, people keep on using this as a reason for them having content which is tailored for the more casual player. Well if that is the case, there should clearly also be content which appeals to the player who actually likes a difficult dungeon, who likes a long ass "journey" as well. Oh no wait, special snowflakes don't count right.

     

    Instead of people saying "oh we have loads of content, a hardcore dungeon or two for people to aim at is cool". We have people saying "no I absolutely must be able to do everything, fuck you guys who want difficult content, you are epeen lamers anyway". It's a piss poor attitude. Nuff said.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by 7star

    I played solid for 2 years after BC and on and off for 3 more years. I unsubbed and uninstalled 3 days ago. I was saddened by what I saw. I'm not bagging on WoW, but it is not the same game it was -- AT ALL.

     

    I'm not saying it's "bad." It's just not for me. My guild and everyone I knew or met who played WoW is gone. They moved on. 

     

    From my experience up to now, the game is not the same because -- especially because -- the community is not the same. I realize things change, games change and "evolve." But the direction WoW has taken discourages community and communication. It's all about grabbing the lewts as fast as possible and using other people to help you achieve that end only because it is necessary to have others help you. That is not community building. 

     

    And other people are necessary to show your stuff off to. That's the only other reason you need people around in the current iteration of WoW. It was a sad a lonely experience for me -- ironic because the queues on my server were longer than ever. 

     

    That's what made me sad about WoW. We aren't going to change it. There is a new generation of gamers who are not like the first generation of WoW players, so WoW will not go back to how it was. It's time for me to move on. That's all.

    ROFL! Please.... this has been the case since day one in Vanilla WoW!

    Everyone already forgot about lvl60's parking out in Ironforge and Stormwind showing off their Epic mounts and Epic Raid gair?

    Common now... nothing has changed in that regard really.

    The only thing that changes is that Raiding has become more accessible. It's no longer just 1% of the playerbase that had access to RAIDing and was able to clear it.

    It is just stupid to create all that Endgame content, for just 1% of the playerbase.

    EverQuest and EverQuest 2 suffered from the exact same. So much elitism in Raiding... it's not even funny.

  • KareliaKarelia HeraklionPosts: 668Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by 7star

    I played solid for 2 years after BC and on and off for 3 more years. I unsubbed and uninstalled 3 days ago. I was saddened by what I saw. I'm not bagging on WoW, but it is not the same game it was -- AT ALL.

     

    I'm not saying it's "bad." It's just not for me. My guild and everyone I knew or met who played WoW is gone. They moved on. 

     

    From my experience up to now, the game is not the same because -- especially because -- the community is not the same. I realize things change, games change and "evolve." But the direction WoW has taken discourages community and communication. It's all about grabbing the lewts as fast as possible and using other people to help you achieve that end only because it is necessary to have others help you. That is not community building. 

     

    And other people are necessary to show your stuff off to. That's the only other reason you need people around in the current iteration of WoW. It was a sad a lonely experience for me -- ironic because the queues on my server were longer than ever. 

     

    That's what made me sad about WoW. We aren't going to change it. There is a new generation of gamers who are not like the first generation of WoW players, so WoW will not go back to how it was. It's time for me to move on. That's all.

    ROFL! Please.... this has been the case since day one in Vanilla WoW!

    Everyone already forgot about lvl60's parking out in Ironforge and Stormwind showing off their Epic mounts and Epic Raid gair?

    Common now... nothing has changed in that regard really.

    The only thing that changes is that Raiding has become more accessible. It's no longer just 1% of the playerbase that had access to RAIDing and was able to clear it.

    It is just stupid to create all that Endgame content, for just 1% of the playerbase.

    EverQuest and EverQuest 2 suffered from the exact same. So much elitism in Raiding... it's not even funny.

    i like content to be hard. i like to be challenging. i like to put skill and effort to achieve things.

    but i also have to agree with you. its really stupid to create a content that will be reached by 1% of the playerbase.

    plus if you see the facts ppl like to be casual. there are very few players left that have the will and time(?) to progress through a very difficult content.

  • BizkitNLBizkitNL NetherlandsPosts: 2,280Member Common

    Over the years, I've identified the one and only "wrong" with MMO's:

    People.

     

    :).

    10
  • HurvartHurvart ystadPosts: 565Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by 7star

    I played solid for 2 years after BC and on and off for 3 more years. I unsubbed and uninstalled 3 days ago. I was saddened by what I saw. I'm not bagging on WoW, but it is not the same game it was -- AT ALL.

     

    I'm not saying it's "bad." It's just not for me. My guild and everyone I knew or met who played WoW is gone. They moved on. 

     

    From my experience up to now, the game is not the same because -- especially because -- the community is not the same. I realize things change, games change and "evolve." But the direction WoW has taken discourages community and communication. It's all about grabbing the lewts as fast as possible and using other people to help you achieve that end only because it is necessary to have others help you. That is not community building. 

     

    And other people are necessary to show your stuff off to. That's the only other reason you need people around in the current iteration of WoW. It was a sad a lonely experience for me -- ironic because the queues on my server were longer than ever. 

     

    That's what made me sad about WoW. We aren't going to change it. There is a new generation of gamers who are not like the first generation of WoW players, so WoW will not go back to how it was. It's time for me to move on. That's all.

    ROFL! Please.... this has been the case since day one in Vanilla WoW!

    Everyone already forgot about lvl60's parking out in Ironforge and Stormwind showing off their Epic mounts and Epic Raid gair?

    Common now... nothing has changed in that regard really.

    The only thing that changes is that Raiding has become more accessible. It's no longer just 1% of the playerbase that had access to RAIDing and was able to clear it.

    It is just stupid to create all that Endgame content, for just 1% of the playerbase.

    EverQuest and EverQuest 2 suffered from the exact same. So much elitism in Raiding... it's not even funny.

    In a good game everything at the highest level should be designed for the 1%. But it will not be for the same 1%. Only 1% should be able to craft the best items. Only 1% should be able to do the most difficult group content or solo content. Only 1% should be able to explore everything. Only 1% should be able to be among the best PvP players and compete at the highest level.. And so on.

    If you compete in some sport and everyone gets a gold medal just for showing up it will be boring for some. For some winning is everything. The fight, the competition... If they cant experience that they will not be interested in the sport. They will think the guy that is not atletic at all with a gold medal telling people "we are all winners" is offensive and it makes the sport pointless. Because there would be no reason to train hard or to compete. Because there is no reward, no goal and no honor...

    People that think like that also play games. They will have that attitude regardless what they do in game. Regardless what goals they have. If everything is easy and dumbed down they will just leave.

  • LissylLissyl Peru, INPosts: 271Member Common

    Sure is a lot of talk in here about how easy the game is, how dull and lifeless it is to do anything, how current dungeons can be soloed, how just showing up gives you a gold medal, and all that other tripe.

    A whole lot of talk.

    But what I -don't- see is some -proof- to back up that talk.   I don't see anyone posting their character with no deaths while levelling.  I don't see anyone posting their world-first heroic DW kill with a group of random strangers.  I -certainly- don't see anyone showing how they soloed Heroic Stormstout Brewery or grabbed 9 random people that fit the minimum requirements and will have the World First Heroic Mogushan Vault kill with them.  I don't see anyone's full clears of the Challenge Modes with Gold timings.  You know...all those things that are so 'easy' and 'dumbed down' and 'mindless' and 'dull' to do. 

    Until then...keep on talking.  But it's just hot air, and anyone with the ability to think recognizes it for what it is.  I don't mind if you don't like WoW -- everyone has their own opinions on things.  I'm not saying the game is perfect, or that it doesn't have any flaws or is the greatest game of all time.  But this 'easy' meme has reached a critical juncture and it's based on -nothing-.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by papardelios
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by 7star

    I played solid for 2 years after BC and on and off for 3 more years. I unsubbed and uninstalled 3 days ago. I was saddened by what I saw. I'm not bagging on WoW, but it is not the same game it was -- AT ALL.

     

    I'm not saying it's "bad." It's just not for me. My guild and everyone I knew or met who played WoW is gone. They moved on. 

     

    From my experience up to now, the game is not the same because -- especially because -- the community is not the same. I realize things change, games change and "evolve." But the direction WoW has taken discourages community and communication. It's all about grabbing the lewts as fast as possible and using other people to help you achieve that end only because it is necessary to have others help you. That is not community building. 

     

    And other people are necessary to show your stuff off to. That's the only other reason you need people around in the current iteration of WoW. It was a sad a lonely experience for me -- ironic because the queues on my server were longer than ever. 

     

    That's what made me sad about WoW. We aren't going to change it. There is a new generation of gamers who are not like the first generation of WoW players, so WoW will not go back to how it was. It's time for me to move on. That's all.

    ROFL! Please.... this has been the case since day one in Vanilla WoW!

    Everyone already forgot about lvl60's parking out in Ironforge and Stormwind showing off their Epic mounts and Epic Raid gair?

    Common now... nothing has changed in that regard really.

    The only thing that changes is that Raiding has become more accessible. It's no longer just 1% of the playerbase that had access to RAIDing and was able to clear it.

    It is just stupid to create all that Endgame content, for just 1% of the playerbase.

    EverQuest and EverQuest 2 suffered from the exact same. So much elitism in Raiding... it's not even funny.

    i like content to be hard. i like to be challenging. i like to put skill and effort to achieve things.

    but i also have to agree with you. its really stupid to create a content that will be reached by 1% of the playerbase.

    plus if you see the facts ppl like to be casual. there are very few players left that have the will and time(?) to progress through a very difficult content.


    I think what guy in video was trying to say is that he does not agree with a notion that WHOLE content should be avabile to everyone - just because.  

    As long as there is plenty to do for player why he would care that some raid is very hard?   I am saying as player that never was in hardcore raiding guild that was trying to get hardest raids as first, etc

     

    Another question is : how we set pecentages?   Is making content for 3% of players is enough? Or it have to be 10% or at least 30%?    No matter how you set percentage if it won't be super easy avabile to everyone then always someone will be displeased.

     

    You know it is same as with streamlining in some of modern single player rpg's.  Some of them have severely cut the corners.   Argument was that some small things are expeienced in those games by small subset of players.

    Another was that they are shorter because long old games like Baldur's Gate 2 or Fallout 2 was not finished by most players.

    I myself finished Fallout 2 at third time I was playing it, almost 2 years after it released. 

    First two times I stopped far in the game and haven't finished for various reasons, but I still had tons of fun.

    I am sure that if Fallout 2 was more streamlined, with lesser amount of details and small things and shorter I would not consider it best game I played in my life.

     

    There is a mindset that every player should experience whole game in fast and conveniant matter and game should be streamlined, simplified and fast / short enough that above would be possible to most players.

    I think that one of reasons why so many games overally are so bad and boring nowadays.   Games were about achieving, finding, beating and experiencing things.   Replayability was a plus.

    Nowadays most games are made in a manner like simple action movies that you would never think of watching again.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hurvart
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by 7star

    I played solid for 2 years after BC and on and off for 3 more years. I unsubbed and uninstalled 3 days ago. I was saddened by what I saw. I'm not bagging on WoW, but it is not the same game it was -- AT ALL.

     

    I'm not saying it's "bad." It's just not for me. My guild and everyone I knew or met who played WoW is gone. They moved on. 

     

    From my experience up to now, the game is not the same because -- especially because -- the community is not the same. I realize things change, games change and "evolve." But the direction WoW has taken discourages community and communication. It's all about grabbing the lewts as fast as possible and using other people to help you achieve that end only because it is necessary to have others help you. That is not community building. 

     

    And other people are necessary to show your stuff off to. That's the only other reason you need people around in the current iteration of WoW. It was a sad a lonely experience for me -- ironic because the queues on my server were longer than ever. 

     

    That's what made me sad about WoW. We aren't going to change it. There is a new generation of gamers who are not like the first generation of WoW players, so WoW will not go back to how it was. It's time for me to move on. That's all.

    ROFL! Please.... this has been the case since day one in Vanilla WoW!

    Everyone already forgot about lvl60's parking out in Ironforge and Stormwind showing off their Epic mounts and Epic Raid gair?

    Common now... nothing has changed in that regard really.

    The only thing that changes is that Raiding has become more accessible. It's no longer just 1% of the playerbase that had access to RAIDing and was able to clear it.

    It is just stupid to create all that Endgame content, for just 1% of the playerbase.

    EverQuest and EverQuest 2 suffered from the exact same. So much elitism in Raiding... it's not even funny.

    In a good game everything at the highest level should be designed for the 1%. But it will not be for the same 1%. Only 1% should be able to craft the best items. Only 1% should be able to do the most difficult group content or solo content. Only 1% should be able to explore everything. Only 1% should be able to be among the best PvP players and compete at the highest level.. And so on.

    If you compete in some sport and everyone gets a gold medal just for showing up it will be boring for some. For some winning is everything. The fight, the competition... If they cant experience that they will not be interested in the sport. They will think the guy that is not atletic at all with a gold medal telling people "we are all winners" is offensive and it makes the sport pointless. Because there would be no reason to train hard or to compete. Because there is no reward, no goal and no honor...

    People that think like that also play games. They will have that attitude regardless what they do in game. Regardless what goals they have. If everything is easy and dumbed down they will just leave.

     

    Spending hours to get a group of 40 people together isn't a challenge.  It's stupid and horribly time consuming. Nothing but frustration!

    Spending over 6 hours to clear a Raid isn't challenging either. Just stupidly long and horribly time consuming.

    Challenge shouldn't be dictated by time!  As that is what caused it to be inaccesible for the vast majority of the playerbase.

    You can create plenty challenging content and make it just as rewarding by reducing a (Raid) dungeon to 1-3 hours.

    It doesn't have to be 5-6 hours or longer.

    I rather have 3-5 Smaller Raid dungeons to create more variation, then one very large one I will never be able to complete due to time constrains.

    Most people have a life outside gaming! Most people can't spend 5-6 hours in a stretch in front of the computer due to real life commitments. Like family, work, school, friends, etc.

    It's not even healthy to spend such long sessions in front of the computer! It's really bad for your health and overall physique! No joking here. As I know what I am talking about.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by Hurvart
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by 7star
     

     

    Spending hours to get a group of 40 people together isn't a challenge.  It's stupid and horribly time consuming. Nothing but frustration!

    Spending over 6 hours to clear a Raid isn't challenging either. Just stupidly long and horribly time consuming.

    Challenge shouldn't be dictated by time!  As that is what caused it to be inaccesible for the vast majority of the playerbase.

    You can create plenty challenging content and make it just as rewarding by reducing a (Raid) dungeon to 1-3 hours.

    It doesn't have to be 5-6 hours or longer.

    I rather have 3-5 Smaller Raid dungeons to create more variation, then one very large one I will never be able to complete due to time constrains.

    Most people have a life outside gaming! Most people can't spend 5-6 hours in a stretch in front of the computer due to real life commitments. Like family, work, school, friends, etc.

    It's not even healthy to spend such long sessions in front of the computer! It's really bad for your health and overall physique! No joking here. As I know what I am talking about.

    Nice, so because you'd rather have every single dungeon/raid to fit into your own time constraints, everyone else can just piss off right? Maybe you personally are not saying that, but it certainly seems a theme going on in this thread (well that and a lot of "hurr epeeners!!".

     

    Personally I'd rather have plenty of raids which cater to people with time contraints, as well as raids which cater to people who want to clear an evening, or a weekend and go at it for 6 hours if that is what they want to do.

     

    Same goes for difficulty. The fact of the matter is not everyone within the game has the same ability at said game. So having plenty of content for everyone to enjoy.. good. Having some content which challenges the top players as well.. also good.

     

    "I don't have the time for it so don't bother putting it in for those who do" seems a somewhat selfish stance for people to take.

     

    I don't have the time (or the inclination) for 6 hour raids or hanging around trying to get a massive group together. Doesn't mean I think all content within a multiplayer game should be aimed at me though does it. "Oh noes, someone is doing a dungeon I don't have the time for, take it away from them quick!!!"

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • bubalubabubaluba LjubljanaPosts: 434Member
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by bubaluba
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by bubaluba
    Are you serious with that video??? Can't you remeber to post something better or what? In this video some dude is talking crap and he didn't show anything from Pandaria and probably never tried mop. It is like to talk crap about Mercedes and never tried to drive one. Sorry but it is demode to post again and again some crap about wow. Sub is again over 10 mill and servers are full of players, everyone i know are for now happy with mop.

    7 million Chinese and 3 million from US+EU? Mmkay.  But thanks for the marketing tactics.

     

    2.7 million MoP sales of 10 mil .. oh yeah, Asians get expansions for free as part of an agreement between Activision-Blizzard and China.  I guess thats why sales are low compared to "subs" >)

    Oh very nice  and games like eq2, aoc, gw2 you can't buy from China :) Only Blizzard is so ''Samaritan'' with rest of the world. And by the way DO you have some problems with Asian people or what? Well i am from Europe and we don't think about Chinese people as second class of humans and in fact Chinese probably made hardware in your PC

    Oh get off your high horse.

    Nobody has problems with Chinese, except people like you who start crap about allegations of what everyone else "might" feel, but doesn't.

     

    Chinese do get free expansions, they also get Game Room Passes, which cost 6 cents per hour to play WoW.  Blizzard made them feel different, the rest of the world had no part.  This is not subjective, it is pure fact.

     

    Blizzard’s World of Warcraft: The China Growth Story

    http://www.sinletter.com/2010/03/blizzards-world-of-warcraft-the-china-growth-story/

    [2009] Between 4 to 6 millions subscribers are from China and they pay 6 cents per hour to play the game.

     

    China is a low source of income for Blizzard, especially since China limits citizens to a number of hours per week to play.  Hours played are tracked by the equivalent of a social security card, or government ID.

     

    10 mil subscribers is just a frill number; it's not indicitive of actual revenue.

    I hope that you can uderstand how much money is 6cents per hourX24X30, it is much more from that what you pay per month for sub, somebody was missing math hours in school:). You forgot to copy paste something from your link-----------The Blizzard division of Activision Blizzard (ATVI) generated $1.2 billion in annual revenue last year without releasing a single new game in 2009.  lol that is a dream for rest of gaming industry

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by Hurvart
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by 7star
     

     

    Spending hours to get a group of 40 people together isn't a challenge.  It's stupid and horribly time consuming. Nothing but frustration!

    Spending over 6 hours to clear a Raid isn't challenging either. Just stupidly long and horribly time consuming.

    Challenge shouldn't be dictated by time!  As that is what caused it to be inaccesible for the vast majority of the playerbase.

    You can create plenty challenging content and make it just as rewarding by reducing a (Raid) dungeon to 1-3 hours.

    It doesn't have to be 5-6 hours or longer.

    I rather have 3-5 Smaller Raid dungeons to create more variation, then one very large one I will never be able to complete due to time constrains.

    Most people have a life outside gaming! Most people can't spend 5-6 hours in a stretch in front of the computer due to real life commitments. Like family, work, school, friends, etc.

    It's not even healthy to spend such long sessions in front of the computer! It's really bad for your health and overall physique! No joking here. As I know what I am talking about.

    Nice, so because you'd rather have every single dungeon/raid to fit into your own time constraints, everyone else can just piss off right? Maybe you personally are not saying that, but it certainly seems a theme going on in this thread (well that and a lot of "hurr epeeners!!".

     

    Personally I'd rather have plenty of raids which cater to people with time contraints, as well as raids which cater to people who want to clear an evening, or a weekend and go at it for 6 hours if that is what they want to do.

     

    Same goes for difficulty. The fact of the matter is not everyone within the game has the same ability at said game. So having plenty of content for everyone to enjoy.. good. Having some content which challenges the top players as well.. also good.

     

    "I don't have the time for it so don't bother putting it in for those who do" seems a somewhat selfish stance for people to take.

     

    I don't have the time (or the inclination) for 6 hour raids or hanging around trying to get a massive group together. Doesn't mean I think all content within a multiplayer game should be aimed at me though does it. "Oh noes, someone is doing a dungeon I don't have the time for, take it away from them quick!!!"

    Maybe you should reread my post again!

    Making content takes time. And it is stupid to spend a ridiculous amount of developer time creating a 6 hour RAID dungeon which only a tiny fraction of the entire playerbase is going to enjoy.

    The time for hardcore raiding has past. Most of the hardcore raiders have become older, got family commitments, moved on to less time consuming activities.

    The new generation of (MMO) gamers don't have the same commitment anymore. I have seen it myself (having been part of RAID guilds in both WoW and EQ2 years ago) in how it was just dying out.

    There have been plenty of developer blogs from various games (WoW, EQ2, LOTRO, etc) where this has been discussed and where developers saw a contineous decline in people participating these said RAID content.

    They all came to the same conclusion that it's too time consuming and simply not profitible to spend that much time and money on huge RAIDs to only see a tiny fraction of the playerbase doing it.

    It's also not rewarding / satisfactory for the Designers and Developers spending so much time to create this type of content and then see so few people enjoying it.

     

    Just accept it that times have changed. People change. It's just the way of life!

  • SlickShoesSlickShoes EdinburghPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon
    Ahh the myth that all the nerfs were because of casual players moaning. I have played it since 2006 and things have changed vastly since then, some good and some bad, you just have to get on with it, there is no point dedicating your life to the campaign to change a game back to the way it used to be. Either play it or just move on with your life.

    image
  • ZecktorinZecktorin Bloomingdale, MIPosts: 231Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by Hurvart
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by 7star

    I played solid for 2 years after BC and on and off for 3 more years. I unsubbed and uninstalled 3 days ago. I was saddened by what I saw. I'm not bagging on WoW, but it is not the same game it was -- AT ALL.

     

    I'm not saying it's "bad." It's just not for me. My guild and everyone I knew or met who played WoW is gone. They moved on. 

     

    From my experience up to now, the game is not the same because -- especially because -- the community is not the same. I realize things change, games change and "evolve." But the direction WoW has taken discourages community and communication. It's all about grabbing the lewts as fast as possible and using other people to help you achieve that end only because it is necessary to have others help you. That is not community building. 

     

    And other people are necessary to show your stuff off to. That's the only other reason you need people around in the current iteration of WoW. It was a sad a lonely experience for me -- ironic because the queues on my server were longer than ever. 

     

    That's what made me sad about WoW. We aren't going to change it. There is a new generation of gamers who are not like the first generation of WoW players, so WoW will not go back to how it was. It's time for me to move on. That's all.

    ROFL! Please.... this has been the case since day one in Vanilla WoW!

    Everyone already forgot about lvl60's parking out in Ironforge and Stormwind showing off their Epic mounts and Epic Raid gair?

    Common now... nothing has changed in that regard really.

    The only thing that changes is that Raiding has become more accessible. It's no longer just 1% of the playerbase that had access to RAIDing and was able to clear it.

    It is just stupid to create all that Endgame content, for just 1% of the playerbase.

    EverQuest and EverQuest 2 suffered from the exact same. So much elitism in Raiding... it's not even funny.

    In a good game everything at the highest level should be designed for the 1%. But it will not be for the same 1%. Only 1% should be able to craft the best items. Only 1% should be able to do the most difficult group content or solo content. Only 1% should be able to explore everything. Only 1% should be able to be among the best PvP players and compete at the highest level.. And so on.

    If you compete in some sport and everyone gets a gold medal just for showing up it will be boring for some. For some winning is everything. The fight, the competition... If they cant experience that they will not be interested in the sport. They will think the guy that is not atletic at all with a gold medal telling people "we are all winners" is offensive and it makes the sport pointless. Because there would be no reason to train hard or to compete. Because there is no reward, no goal and no honor...

    People that think like that also play games. They will have that attitude regardless what they do in game. Regardless what goals they have. If everything is easy and dumbed down they will just leave.

     

    Spending hours to get a group of 40 people together isn't a challenge.  It's stupid and horribly time consuming. Nothing but frustration!

    Spending over 6 hours to clear a Raid isn't challenging either. Just stupidly long and horribly time consuming.

    Challenge shouldn't be dictated by time!  As that is what caused it to be inaccesible for the vast majority of the playerbase.

    You can create plenty challenging content and make it just as rewarding by reducing a (Raid) dungeon to 1-3 hours.

    It doesn't have to be 5-6 hours or longer.

    I rather have 3-5 Smaller Raid dungeons to create more variation, then one very large one I will never be able to complete due to time constrains.

    Most people have a life outside gaming! Most people can't spend 5-6 hours in a stretch in front of the computer due to real life commitments. Like family, work, school, friends, etc.

    It's not even healthy to spend such long sessions in front of the computer! It's really bad for your health and overall physique! No joking here. As I know what I am talking about.

    Well I work hard at my job and the payoff is i'm better at my job. I play video games the same way. When its a single player game I always play the hardest setting it will let me my first time through. I still find time to go out and chill with friends and hang out with family. I do that quite often actually. I prefer to work my ass off at everything I do because it makes me better at doing it is all. Your argument is set towards people who spend 8 to 12 hours a day playing. I've always had time to raid hardcore and still do other things. A lot of hardcore MMOers have the time to do all of that as well. The argument of a old guy sitting in his parents basement is really false and people who play that much really dont exist. (except in very small numbers) Heck one of my friends play more than I do and his is a marine and still manages his time better. Your argument of no lifers is really false mate. For the most part.

  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,745Member Uncommon
    This is not a criticism but how does anyone who works from 8.30 am to 7 pm manage with a family and kids and travel time to play 5-6 hours a night during the week ? I know when I worked I was so tired with those hours I was zonked in front of the telly most nights. That was with my mum cooking but when I started cooking and cleaning oh boy even less time to zonk out. Add baby who is now thankfully grown up I could never ever manage that time frame.

    image

  • thexratedthexrated OuluPosts: 1,368Member Common
    I agree with the video. It describes the main reason I have no interest in WoW anymore. Or why I did not enjoy WoTLK and did not even bother with Cataclysm.

    "The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  • david361107david361107 chattanooga, TNPosts: 279Member
    Originally posted by Homitu

    I definitely agree with a lot of the video, and I actually think there is a way to maintain both the elitism (not used in the traditional negative sense) of top tier raids as well as accessibility.  The answer lies in not making previous raid tiers (let alone previous expansions' raids and dungeons) utterly obsolete the moment a new tier of content is released.  

    Imagine how much content current WoW would have if it featured a down-scaling system similar to GW2 or even FFXI.  This isn't meant to be a "praise the holy features of GW2!" moment, so bear with me.  I'm simply inviting you to imagine this one particular feature, perhaps not implemented in exactly the same way, in an aged game like WoW, which now features 4 full expansions of content.  Imagine if every WoW raid and dungeon was still challenging and offered relevant rewards.  There would be no need to remake 1 or 2 classic dungeons with each expansion; they'd all still be available!

    But not only that, the top tier of content could once again be made to be ridiculously challenging and become an elite feat.  The rest of the WoW community, that 99%, would still have so much content to enjoy.  The journey would continue to exist for both subsets.  Then when a new tier comes out once again, that supposed 1% would move on (in addition to still being able to raid any other content they please), while the previous raids would continue to be progressed by the rest of the WoW raiding community.  This content will eventually be able to be seen, relevantly, by all WoW players as a function of both added time dedicated to downing those bosses as well as slightly improved stats (after down-scaling).  

    Now, I do think several things will need to be monitored to actually make all content relevant, namely dungeon rewards compared to current tier gear as well as just how challenging the older content remains after down-scaling.  I think increased gear power after down-scaling needs to be significant enough to allow players who couldn't beat that content while it was top tier to get in there and, after making an earnest effort, begin to down the bosses, but not so significant that it feels like a level 85 group returning to a level 70 raid and just blasting their way through, or even a T6 geared group returning to T4 content and completely dominating everything without abiding by the raid mechanics.  

    But those are all just the logistics of implementation.  The idea stands regardless of tuning.  

    Just got to the part where you said down-scaling was a good idea, hate it in PVP when i'm scaled up and hate even more the scale down so I stopped reading there. Seems to be the lazy way out and still bowing down to the casuals.

     

    Peace

    Lascer

  • david361107david361107 chattanooga, TNPosts: 279Member

    I have to say I agree with everything the OP posted here. I played WOW starting at V and loved BC. Was Guild officer during the Kara hell and spent months downing boss after boss making our way deeper. I've never played another MMO that everyone on vent screamed in victory when we downed a Kara boss we've been working on for weeks and weeks. Blizzard and all MMO's need to stop this doing everthing for the casual players because it's killing their games. Casual plays don't bring other players they barely play themselves. Hardcore players give other players something to work to and bring other players to games and also hardcore players stick with games longer. I played WOW for 7 years and everything after BC, the dumbing down of tree's, easy raids, the end of the 40 man raids, everything they did started killing the game. I never did see half the endgame bosses in WOW and I was ok with that because I knew if I tried harder and worked at it I would see them. Even though i never did get to see a lot of them I did hear about people down them and it was exciting all over the communitry.

    This caving when the baby players start crying has got to end. And if anyone at blizzard would like to debate this business practice I would love to hear it because all I'm seeing out here is how dumbed down WOW has become, candy land MMO is what I like to call it, and subs keep going down and down more and more.

    If WOW would go back to the way it was, like when BC was out, change the tree's back to giving players options so every Priest isnt the same then I might come back. When i hear of big raids coming back and it taking 2 months and not 2 days to down a epic boss then I will look into coming back but never before that.

    If Blizzard did everything this dude says in this little video then I believe over time their subs would start going up again.

     

    Peace

    Lascer

  • david361107david361107 chattanooga, TNPosts: 279Member
    Originally posted by kitarad
    This is not a criticism but how does anyone who works from 8.30 am to 7 pm manage with a family and kids and travel time to play 5-6 hours a night during the week ? I know when I worked I was so tired with those hours I was zonked in front of the telly most nights. That was with my mum cooking but when I started cooking and cleaning oh boy even less time to zonk out. Add baby who is now thankfully grown up I could never ever manage that time frame.

    We all know it's hard work taking care of a family, work and finding time for hobbies and fun. I've been in raid where one of my friends would be feeding their baby and working on a boss fight at the same time, that's not the norm usually..lol

     

    As i said before in a post on this subject. Everyone didn't get to see every dungeon or every boss fight when I was hardcore in WOW, me included. But I will say this, it made the game a lot better for me when I didn't get to see those things.

     

    Peace,

    Lascer

  • OnigodOnigod Noord-HollandPosts: 688Member

    Its a pvp expansion.   Bought it but dont like it being a pvp expansion? shouldnt have bought it! it was well known.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by david361107
    Originally posted by kitarad
    This is not a criticism but how does anyone who works from 8.30 am to 7 pm manage with a family and kids and travel time to play 5-6 hours a night during the week ? I know when I worked I was so tired with those hours I was zonked in front of the telly most nights. That was with my mum cooking but when I started cooking and cleaning oh boy even less time to zonk out. Add baby who is now thankfully grown up I could never ever manage that time frame.

    We all know it's hard work taking care of a family, work and finding time for hobbies and fun. I've been in raid where one of my friends would be feeding their baby and working on a boss fight at the same time, that's not the norm usually..lol

     

    As i said before in a post on this subject. Everyone didn't get to see every dungeon or every boss fight when I was hardcore in WOW, me included. But I will say this, it made the game a lot better for me when I didn't get to see those things.

     

    Peace,

    Lascer

    And still there are loads of people that never come to do any 25 man RAID's, yet alone 25 man Hardmode RAID's.

    If you so desperately want to RAID 6 hours a day. Well you still can!  Just do 2 RAIDs then.

    Anyone claiming WoW has become easymode are just complaining for the sake of complaining.

    The REAL truth is that these people don't feel "Special" anymore. That they are no longer part of just the 1% that could do 6 hour RAIDs to get the EPIC gear.

    Now they have to share the bragging with 5% of the playerbase instead of just 1%.  /shrug

    That's just all it comes down to. Acting "elitish" and "L337" to pinch peope's eyes out, only because they have more time to play each night.

     

     

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    Mm elitist arguements asside wow is fundementally about getting gear that is supposed to reflect your prestige within that games society. If you devalue this then there is no point being a gear centric game. The game has really confused and conflicting viewpoints.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • MyriaMyria Lowell, MAPosts: 570Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lissyl

    Sure is a lot of talk in here about how easy the game is, how dull and lifeless it is to do anything, how current dungeons can be soloed, how just showing up gives you a gold medal, and all that other tripe.

    A whole lot of talk.

    But what I -don't- see is some -proof- to back up that talk.   I don't see anyone posting their character with no deaths while levelling.  I don't see anyone posting their world-first heroic DW kill with a group of random strangers.  I -certainly- don't see anyone showing how they soloed Heroic Stormstout Brewery or grabbed 9 random people that fit the minimum requirements and will have the World First Heroic Mogushan Vault kill with them.  I don't see anyone's full clears of the Challenge Modes with Gold timings.  You know...all those things that are so 'easy' and 'dumbed down' and 'mindless' and 'dull' to do. 

    Until then...keep on talking.  But it's just hot air, and anyone with the ability to think recognizes it for what it is.  I don't mind if you don't like WoW -- everyone has their own opinions on things.  I'm not saying the game is perfect, or that it doesn't have any flaws or is the greatest game of all time.  But this 'easy' meme has reached a critical juncture and it's based on -nothing-.

    Kind of amusing how this post has been completely ignored.

    Let's see some links from these people who claim there's no challenge and everything is easy mode. Let's see proof that you're really as "1337" as you think you are.

    Let's see something besides talk, ego, and a stadium full of rose coloured glasses.

     

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Mm elitist arguements asside wow is fundementally about getting gear that is supposed to reflect your prestige within that games society. If you devalue this then there is no point being a gear centric game. The game has really confused and conflicting viewpoints.

    No. Being a gear centric game should have nothing to do with acting like an Elitsh entitled prick!

    It's those top 1% in games as WoW, EQ and EQ2 that have made it that way.

    I like to collect gear in MMO's. Advance my character. But I still play just for fun!

    Being able to clear a difficult dungeon or a RAID I see as both personal achievement for myself as together with the people I did it with.

    I had never any desire to parade my characters through Stormwind, Ironforge, Quenos or Freeport to show off, brag and look down on fellow gamers! Just because I had the time to spend those 6 hours in a row to participate in a RAID at that time.

    I find that childish and idiotic. It's terrible for the community as a whole. It had nothing but a poisoning effect.

    It's exacly this childish and elitish behaviour of that top 1% that gave both WoW and EQ2 such a bad name during the years! /shrug

     

    The title of the Topic should be changed to: "This video explains what is wrong with gamers today".

    As there is nothing wrong with WoW itself. It just evolved over the years.

     

  • VikingGamerVikingGamer Nowhere, TXPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon

    I agree that it is a shame that a lot of the epic has disappeared from these raids. It also doesn't help that you throw away all the raids from previous expansions with each new expansion. I really like how you had a literal spider web of unlocks to earn in BC to get into places like TK, SSC and BK. Remember the questline you had to do to get into Kara?

    Now understand that I am no fan of elitists. I don't give a flying F*** about enabling epeen. I think raid content should be accessible. But that is just in terms of general boss difficulty. What they never should have gotten rid of was the epic journey needed to get to some of this content. Working your way up the ladder of progression is what the game needs. They don't need to tune bosses so that only 1% of the community can down the boss. That is what hard modes are for and those were a good idea to keep the truely elite players challenged. But they never should have removed the progression ladder and replaced it with a freakin' elevator.

    The big mistake that blizzard has made was to grandfather everyone up to the latest raid tier with each content release. This was the mistake of  WotLK. But once most raiders have moved on it can become hard or even impossible to get the unlocks you need to bring a new character into raiding. You either have to be an existing player in a raid guild and be able to twist some arms or you need to be a class that is desparately needed. I saw this in BC. I was late to the raiding scene. I got into a guild that was in TK and SSC. I had to bust my butt to get though the Kara attunement quest but from their they helped me get through all the rest of the attuning and gearing that I needed because they really needed another full healing priest. And yeah, I remember weeks of wiping on Kelthalas but man when we got him down it was the best feeling and being a part of your guilds first kill of a tier final boss is a feeling you cant  replace.

    But the problem for most is not that the bosses were hard, they were but that was a different thing. The bigger problem is that most people can't even get to those bosses in the first place because most raiders will not help them get there. Most raiders want to get the kill and move on. Sometimes guilds will even leave behind some of their own members in the mad rush to try something new.. That is why Blizz removed the attunement quests. But that is again replacing the ladder with an elevator when it really shouldn't have to be.

    I would like to see blizzard bring back the attunements of Vanilla and BC but create an incentive for guilds to get new people attuned. Now this doesn't mean that guilds need to stop progressing but what if they had an incentive to keep farming the earlier tiers. Not just for gear for the people they like but rather what if a guild got rewarded for each character they got attuned and geared for a particular tier of raiding. What if vet raid members got bonus "raid mentor" rewards for being in a raid that got someone new attuned to the next level.

    Dont remove the journey from the game just because not enough people are traveling that path any more and it cannot be done alone. And don't make the journey completely soloable. Give people a reason to keep on making the journey with new friends.

    If you want a social game, reward people for being social.

    All die, so die well.

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