Originally posted by GaladournAs you yourself said, you are describing one aspect of the game; you like the clan warfare part. That's fine and very much understood. However, others may like to collect herbs and brew potions, explore and mine rare ore to craft armor/weapons/whatnot, build a small farmhouse and cultivate the land to grow and cook food, etc. A sandbox must give these types of players the option to engage in these activities if they so wish. Not risk-free, but viably so. In its implementation, DF1 did not allow for anything else other than fighting. Let's hope DF:UW will exoand on the sandbox options.
good post, i want a good sandbox game but if this game is just constant pvp action, full loot or not, no thanks.
Darkfall is not constant PvP, if you want to PvE or gather stuff then you can. However there is always the chance that someone might find and attack you. This can be mitigated by going off the beaten track or staying close to guard towers which offer good protection, especially at the start of the game when people do not have the resistance jewellery that helps protect from them. You can also simply run away if you do get attacked or wear cheap gear that you don't mind losing.
Bare in mind that at the start of the game everyone will be in the NPC cities, all bunched up. This means that a comparatively small number of spawns will be farmed and as such raiders will be more common. Once the playerbase has spread out to the various player holdings as the are built you will find yourself attacked less often when farming.
You didn't understand what Galadourn and baphamet are getting at. Most of the efforts put into DarkFall were put into it's PvP, the rest of the features (crafting, exploring, PvE, etc) are lackluster to say the least. It's something most PvPers don't see because it's not their focus, but to other experienced players looking for a sandbox, they'll be sorely disappointed.
Well crafting plays a central role in Darkfall as your armour, jewellery, weapons, arrows, potions, food, enchants, and such like are all made by players. Since this gear gets lost a lot and also breaks you can see the demand for crafting. To get the mats to craft all that takes a lot of PvE, fun PvE at that thanks to the aim based combat and good mob AI and the danger of being attacked by players. With regards to exploring, there is plenty of that to do as the world is huge. I was my guilds cartographer at release, mapping out good spots for farm and good places to raid. Whenever I need to farm I also explore and try different places till I find a spot that suits me.
... massive siege warfare where you fight 50 VS 50, 100 VS 100...
A while ago there was a site that used to report on the wars and politics of DF. Is that site still around and are there others? I'm a big fan of the big wars and politics of MMOs and would really like to follow stuff like that. How often are the massive sieges and what is at stake in them?
it was the darkfall political map, i wont give you the link because it's been reported to have been hacked and have a virus on it or something, but in DFs current state the largest of the sieges are 30V30, nothing compared to launch when it used to be 100+V100+, that is what it should be like at DF:UW launch.
You fight over holdings, cities or hamlets, cities ofc are bigger, have more resources in them, more vendors, and provide more bind spots, where as hamlets are a smaller, but can still have important resources, mines being the most valuable for rare ore. There is also the regional factor, meaning you could have a holding near good mob spawns making farming and securing the spawns easier, allowing quick bank access. At the moment it's cheaper to siege hamlets than cities, and easier, seeing as how cities have walls to take down, and it takes longer to destroy the bindstone, also apart from claiming the city as your own, people where the best gear they can to sieges (cause you want to give it your all to keep your holding), so lots of loot is at stake as well, most of the time the amount of gear being used is sumed up to cost more than it takes to siege a holding. I'm not to sure what they plan for DF:UW i'm assuming they aren't going to change siege mechanics, although i think i remember reading or hearing somewhere that they plan to make cannons and siege equipment more useful/viable (in it's current state it's very costly and just used to take down walls/bindstones).
You didn't understand what Galadourn and baphamet are getting at. Most of the efforts put into DarkFall were put into it's PvP, the rest of the features (crafting, exploring, PvE, etc) are lackluster to say the least. It's something most PvPers don't see because it's not their focus, but to other experienced players looking for a sandbox, they'll be sorely disappointed.
Well crafting plays a central role in Darkfall as your armour, jewellery, weapons, arrows, potions, food, enchants, and such like are all made by players. Since this gear gets lost a lot and also breaks you can see the demand for crafting. To get the mats to craft all that takes a lot of PvE, fun PvE at that thanks to the aim based combat and good mob AI and the danger of being attacked by players. With regards to exploring, there is plenty of that to do as the world is huge. I was my guilds cartographer at release, mapping out good spots for farm and good places to raid. Whenever I need to farm I also explore and try different places till I find a spot that suits me.
It's not whether crafting takes an important part of DarkFall or not, it's about how it's done. Again, most of AV's efforts were put into PvP. Everything else, from exploring, crafting, PvE, etc is extremely lackluster.
Crafting has no depth. It's overly simplistic, and coupled with harvesting is an AFK mess. Many of the armor sets are not even complete, not all items can be crafted. Being a dedicated crafter is absolutely pointless when most of the playerbase harvest/craft when they need to AFK and raise their stats.
PvE isn't anything special. Monsters will run around in circle when their HPs get low, hit their allies in the back, etc. Overall, nothing special. Chronicles Of Spellborn had a much more interesting and engaging mob AI.
Exploring. There's nothing to explore, looking for monster spawns is DarkFall is no different from any other MMORPG so it barely passes as exploring. And when developers feel the need to introduce Chaos Chest to encourage players to explore.....actually, I'll just leave it at that.
Even for Housing and Player Cities/Hamlet, AV cutted every corner possible. Static locations, non-customizable. Housing is acquired by looting a Deed from either a mob or chaos chest (just how ridiculous is that for a "sandbox"?).
On paper, DarkFall meets most of the criterias to be a sandbox game. In action, however, it barely passes as one. It's much closer to a PvP themepark without any rules, than an actual Sandbox MMORPG.
I have so many good memories of Darkfall, even as a 250 ping aussie who prefers pve (with risk).
Darkfall always felt like a world.
Defending cities was always a blast, dungeon runs with the guild were always fun, seiges well Lineage2 came close but Darkfall was better.
Out soloing mobs was always fun because you never knew when someone would show up and you'd be fighting to the death to survive.
Bring on DFUW, even with shitty ping I'll be there.
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76) Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
all in all, i have no idea why people think they are more manly for playing a game with a different "more hardcore" style. Elitism is annoying. Yes I like full loot pvp, makes risk/reward high, and it is kind of more imersive, and intensive, since you wont be saying "eh I died." However, this doesn't give right to make fun of people who don't like that style of gameplay, and doesnt make you any more mainly. At the end of the day, both games are simply images on a screen, and have little to none real life worth.
Originally posted by Goll25 all in all, i have no idea why people think they are more manly for playing a game with a different "more hardcore" style. Elitism is annoying. Yes I like full loot pvp, makes risk/reward high, and it is kind of more imersive, and intensive, since you wont be saying "eh I died." However, this doesn't give right to make fun of people who don't like that style of gameplay, and doesnt make you any more mainly. At the end of the day, both games are simply images on a screen, and have little to none real life worth.
Well...when those people come and make a thread in a game like darkfall that is totally sunny bear...then yes it does...
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
I heard Mists of Pandaria just came out, why don't you go boss it up as a cuddly wuddly panduh, dawwwww.
No but seriously, this game is a hardcore PVP game, if you can't deal with PVP, if you can't deal with losing you're precious pixels, stop posting, stop looking at the game, and just go play something else, cause this is what it is and this is how it should be. Carebear themepark mmos have ruined the mmo genre as we all know and leave no room for original content, DF is original, it's got something everything nowadays doesn't. This game is already dumbing down it's combat system so some of the "slower" players can keep up.
If you guys like action-packed skill-based pvp thrillrides (anyone who thinks otherwise about the skill part more than likely sucked at this part), massive siege warfare where you fight 50 VS 50, 100 VS 100, where the game feels like a game of starcraft, but from the perspective of a zealot ( perfect example, each one of those spells individually aimed, the target called) for control over resources, dominance over land, than this game is for you. There's more to DF than just this ofc, but this is the part I found most enjoyable.
In totally unrelated news, It's hilarious to me, given my long history of telling stupid people how stupid they are, that the admins here continue to give me warnings as if I care.
Now back on topic. Cute post bro. That mentality is exactly why this game can't become what it should become. It's that black and white, tunnel vision that the AV developers appear to share with you. You can still have your PvP game, though, I'm pretty sure that most of us would actually like a little more UO or SWG mixed in. I think most sandbox gamers who follow the game, do just that, follow the game.
But go ahead. Keep blaming us and telling us that we are wrong. While your beloved game continues to fail in drawing in it's targetted market. Continue believing that it has the best PvP and the most robust AI. Continue to make excuses for a small dev team with little money. Continue making excuses for a playerbase that is currently under 10,000 active subscriptions. Nothing to see here guys, nothing is wrong. Everything is rainbows and butterflies!
It's like you are just pissing all over yourself and you actually enjoy it.
(You know, some people like that crap... now that I think of it)
I heard Mists of Pandaria just came out, why don't you go boss it up as a cuddly wuddly panduh, dawwwww.
No but seriously, this game is a hardcore PVP game, if you can't deal with PVP, if you can't deal with losing you're precious pixels, stop posting, stop looking at the game, and just go play something else, cause this is what it is and this is how it should be. Carebear themepark mmos have ruined the mmo genre as we all know and leave no room for original content, DF is original, it's got something everything nowadays doesn't. This game is already dumbing down it's combat system so some of the "slower" players can keep up.
If you guys like action-packed skill-based pvp thrillrides (anyone who thinks otherwise about the skill part more than likely sucked at this part), massive siege warfare where you fight 50 VS 50, 100 VS 100, where the game feels like a game of starcraft, but from the perspective of a zealot ( perfect example, each one of those spells individually aimed, the target called) for control over resources, dominance over land, than this game is for you. There's more to DF than just this ofc, but this is the part I found most enjoyable.
In totally unrelated news, It's hilarious to me, given my long history of telling stupid people how stupid they are, that the admins here continue to give me warnings as if I care.
Now back on topic. Cute post bro. That mentality is exactly why this game can't become what it should become. It's that black and white, tunnel vision that the AV developers appear to share with you. You can still have your PvP game, though, I'm pretty sure that most of us would actually like a little more UO or SWG mixed in. I think most sandbox gamers who follow the game, do just that, follow the game.
But go ahead. Keep blaming us and telling us that we are wrong. While your beloved game continues to fail in drawing in it's targetted market. Continue believing that it has the best PvP and the most robust AI. Continue to make excuses for a small dev team with little money. Continue making excuses for a playerbase that is currently under 10,000 active subscriptions. Nothing to see here guys, nothing is wrong. Everything is rainbows and butterflies!
It's like you are just pissing all over yourself and you actually enjoy it.
(You know, some people like that crap... now that I think of it)
I will agree with you on the admins here...its stupid how they love the carebears and you get warnings for the stupidist stuff...
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
Darkfall may not be the perfect sandbox but imposing themepark restrictions like safe zones, PvE servers, limiting full loot, etc will only make it less of a sandbox. Yes Darkfall could attract more players by turning into something it was not designed to be but what is the point of that? There are plenty of PvE/consensual PvP games out there so why change games that try to do something different into something that is already abundant?
You need none of that to attract more people. Most sandbox fans, and there are a ton who don't play DF, do not want those changes.
Try this.
- Less restrictive player housing and customizing
- Skill Cap with all crafting professions being a viable form of advancement
- Safer cities and safer ways to trade wares
- 3rd person perspective support and development for all types of combat
- The removal of bunny hopping, launch spells, macros and scripted spells and abilities (Making it less auto-pilot)
- Books, musical instruments, mini-games, etc. (more sandbox fluff that is non-PvP)
- Multiple character slots (Why is your Sandbox game allowing free class changes on the fly?)
- Harsher penalty for being a murderer (You can still PvP at high levels without killing young players with no reason)
Those are just a few things. None of them will undermine the core of the game. It will just add more options for people who are less interested in PvP, which is a good thing. The only thing to remotely affect PvP is the removal of bunny hopping and such. But, if you are actually in favor of an exploit that is frowned upon in literally every multiplayer game ever made, then I guess I can't argue with you.
There, I gave examples. What do the supporters have to say?
I heard Mists of Pandaria just came out, why don't you go boss it up as a cuddly wuddly panduh, dawwwww.
No but seriously, this game is a hardcore PVP game, if you can't deal with PVP, if you can't deal with losing you're precious pixels, stop posting, stop looking at the game, and just go play something else, cause this is what it is and this is how it should be. Carebear themepark mmos have ruined the mmo genre as we all know and leave no room for original content, DF is original, it's got something everything nowadays doesn't. This game is already dumbing down it's combat system so some of the "slower" players can keep up.
If you guys like action-packed skill-based pvp thrillrides (anyone who thinks otherwise about the skill part more than likely sucked at this part), massive siege warfare where you fight 50 VS 50, 100 VS 100, where the game feels like a game of starcraft, but from the perspective of a zealot ( perfect example, each one of those spells individually aimed, the target called) for control over resources, dominance over land, than this game is for you. There's more to DF than just this ofc, but this is the part I found most enjoyable.
In totally unrelated news, It's hilarious to me, given my long history of telling stupid people how stupid they are, that the admins here continue to give me warnings as if I care.
Now back on topic. Cute post bro. That mentality is exactly why this game can't become what it should become. It's that black and white, tunnel vision that the AV developers appear to share with you. You can still have your PvP game, though, I'm pretty sure that most of us would actually like a little more UO or SWG mixed in. I think most sandbox gamers who follow the game, do just that, follow the game.
But go ahead. Keep blaming us and telling us that we are wrong. While your beloved game continues to fail in drawing in it's targetted market. Continue believing that it has the best PvP and the most robust AI. Continue to make excuses for a small dev team with little money. Continue making excuses for a playerbase that is currently under 10,000 active subscriptions. Nothing to see here guys, nothing is wrong. Everything is rainbows and butterflies!
It's like you are just pissing all over yourself and you actually enjoy it.
(You know, some people like that crap... now that I think of it)
I will agree with you on the admins here...its stupid how they love the carebears and you get warnings for the stupidist stuff...
It's just that most DF players have never actually played a good sandbox MMO. And I know that, that, in itself is the main problem. They didn't have the pleasure to see what a truly well made sandox actually is or how it plays. So they don't have the success to draw from. All they know is Dark and Light, Shadowbane, and even some only know Darkfall and Mortal Online.
For whatever reason, sandbox developers have gone from a fully fledged fantasy world that invites all playstyles, to a large arena fantasy FPS deathmatch. Yet they still call it a sandbox. I guess... Only us old timers can see where I'm coming from.
It's a shame. I feel so sorry for these new sandbox gamers.
It would be a more enjoyable concept if individuals could pioneer the landscape, form villages and towns of their own, elect officals of that town and form player militias to defend them. From my understanding though ( and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong ) you can only form cities if you belong to a clan. I've never personally cared for clans because the players themselves have no control over who makes the decisions and usually ends up with only a few top clans running the whole game.
It's just that most DF players have never actually played a good sandbox MMO. And I know that, that, in itself is the main problem. They didn't have the pleasure to see what a truly well made sandox actually is or how it plays. So they don't have the success to draw from. All they know is Dark and Light, Shadowbane, and even some only know Darkfall and Mortal Online.
For whatever reason, sandbox developers have gone from a fully fledged fantasy world that invites all playstyles, to a large arena fantasy FPS deathmatch. Yet they still call it a sandbox. I guess... Only us old timers can see where I'm coming from.
It's a shame. I feel so sorry for these new sandbox gamers.
This is exactly spot on. For players who've never really played sandbox games, DarkFall is a great sandbox. But for anyone who has played many sandboxes, DarkFall clearly falls short.
It's just that most DF players have never actually played a good sandbox MMO. And I know that, that, in itself is the main problem. They didn't have the pleasure to see what a truly well made sandox actually is or how it plays. So they don't have the success to draw from. All they know is Dark and Light, Shadowbane, and even some only know Darkfall and Mortal Online.
For whatever reason, sandbox developers have gone from a fully fledged fantasy world that invites all playstyles, to a large arena fantasy FPS deathmatch. Yet they still call it a sandbox. I guess... Only us old timers can see where I'm coming from.
It's a shame. I feel so sorry for these new sandbox gamers.
This is exactly spot on. For players who've never really played sandbox games, DarkFall is a great sandbox. But for anyone who has played many sandboxes, DarkFall clearly falls short.
Darkfall may not be perfect but it is still a sandbox game. The fact is noone else is making a game like it so we should give props to them for what they have acheived and encourage them with feedback and ideas on how to improve the game.
It's just that most DF players have never actually played a good sandbox MMO. And I know that, that, in itself is the main problem. They didn't have the pleasure to see what a truly well made sandox actually is or how it plays. So they don't have the success to draw from. All they know is Dark and Light, Shadowbane, and even some only know Darkfall and Mortal Online.
For whatever reason, sandbox developers have gone from a fully fledged fantasy world that invites all playstyles, to a large arena fantasy FPS deathmatch. Yet they still call it a sandbox. I guess... Only us old timers can see where I'm coming from.
It's a shame. I feel so sorry for these new sandbox gamers.
This is exactly spot on. For players who've never really played sandbox games, DarkFall is a great sandbox. But for anyone who has played many sandboxes, DarkFall clearly falls short.
Darkfall may not be perfect but it is still a sandbox game. The fact is noone else is making a game like it so we should give props to them for what they have acheived and encourage them with feedback and ideas on how to improve the game.
Here's some feedback: Don't launch the game with a bunch of broken stuff and exploitable game mechanics. And actually punish the botters, and other people that exploit the broken mechanics for months, unlike the last launch.
With a full loot, PvP centric game, the devs must ensure the playing field is very level.
And last time, with the launch of DF and for many months after, it wasn't. And they didn't, and didn't care.
Why do you think so many people quit? Not because it was "too hardcore" and "they were carebears", it is that AV was unwilling or unable to keep a lid on the hacks/exploits and couldn't/wouldn't/didn't fix the exploitable mechanics like the Bloodwall and the "swimmers" and all the other people that botted their way to skills in the early days. Or punish those that did. Or just plain fix things that were broken.
I like sandbox games, but I like well made, non-exploitable games more.
When AV demonstrates it can put out the second, and as well as the first, they might get my money.
But until then, and based on their first release of DF which was a mess, they won't.
First point of order. A MMO can be a sandbox without FFA Full Loot PVP.
EVE is a sandbox style game, and it has a very elaborate set of rules in place to enable players to control their level of risk hence some folks favor its design. But I'm not going to debate that here, not the point.
Problem is the shortage of sandbox style titles. The very few created in recent years have all included FFA full loot PVP, leaving those who like the sandbox concept but not with full loot out in the cold. (Think AC many years ago)
I'm not saying DF:UW should be anything else but what it is, just saying it's understandable why people would invade the space here hoping for a different design.
Very much this.
I don't get the point of people creating "if you don't like it leave or don't play it" threads. It doesn't make the game look better, it doesn't make the community look better, It doesn't encourage anyone to actually try the game.
Instead of telling people to "go away" why don't you help to alleviate some of the issue they may have. I love EVE and I talk to people all the time about the game. When they mention something that worries them about it, like FFA PvP, I explain to them how you can play for years and never worry about PvP. When they mention full loot, I epxlain that it's not hard to replace what you lose and that it's what allows the game to have such a robust economic side to it.
Instead of telling people who are worreid about full loot in DF to "go play WoW" why don't you explain that it's the only real penalty for dying and that it's INCREDIBLY EASY to replace items.
However, people who want to see more PvE in DF are absolutely correct. AV agrees with them, many of the formaer and current DF players agree with them. Elitist PvP doods, who only want a FFA deathmatch game disagree.
When poeple complain about constant ganking when you first start, they're right. AV agrees with them, many former and current players agree with them. Ganking was a huge problem when the game first released, all the places new players would have to grind mobs or resources to get started were camped by other players who just wanted to gank. AV did not impliment newbie protection and change the flagging mechanics becuase there was no problem, they did those things because there was indeed a problem.
People that want a sandbox game that offers more than grinding mobs, generic crafting, and PvP are correct. AV agrees with them, many former and current players agree with them. AV isn't redoing the world, dungeons, outdoor raid bosses, adding more quests and lore to the world because "there's so much to do in DF". They're doing these things to address the non PvP problems DF was facing.
AV even agreed that the game needed more "sandboxyness".
It's very much an arena deathmatch/ king of the hill MMO. Running around and fighting other players is pretty much the only point of the game.
In totally unrelated news, It's hilarious to me, given my long history of telling stupid people how stupid they are, that the admins here continue to give me warnings as if I care.
Now back on topic. Cute post bro. That mentality is exactly why this game can't become what it should become. It's that black and white, tunnel vision that the AV developers appear to share with you. You can still have your PvP game, though, I'm pretty sure that most of us would actually like a little more UO or SWG mixed in. I think most sandbox gamers who follow the game, do just that, follow the game.
But go ahead. Keep blaming us and telling us that we are wrong. While your beloved game continues to fail in drawing in it's targetted market. Continue believing that it has the best PvP and the most robust AI. Continue to make excuses for a small dev team with little money. Continue making excuses for a playerbase that is currently under 10,000 active subscriptions. Nothing to see here guys, nothing is wrong. Everything is rainbows and butterflies!
It's like you are just pissing all over yourself and you actually enjoy it.
(You know, some people like that crap... now that I think of it)
I will continue making excuses here, because nothing is wrong, this is the way game was made, and is intended. Enough of these same old dime a dozen people that come into original content, and asking to change it into something that has been done, 20 times over.
YOU HAVE RUINED THIS GAMING GENRE, you have opened the path for blood sucking money grabbers to come in and keep developing the same CRAP over and over again, and you dumbasses play into this, and buy these games, pay the subscription for the same thing dressed in different clothes. You are the reason people like me exist, you are the reason minimal original content has been developed in the past 10 years. Stop questioning full loot pvp, asking for PVE servers, stop trying to change it, cause those things are what makes darkfall different than the other piles of steaming feces.
The fact that people are hesitant to try this game because of full loot, PVP based game, wanting to PVE, is sad. There is a reason for full loot (gear is easy as shit to obtain, theres tons of it everywhere, who cares if you lose some? If you're looking into this game, and asking about this, than you should already know this.), PVE is still there, it just comes with a little risk, it makes the game more exciting, why would you want to kill the same ai OVER and OVER again, for what, to say you can beat a computer? where is the fun in that, i just dont see it, true challenge comes from other players, who aren't programmed to do the samething, where eventually you find the loophole to beat. It's different everytime.
In totally unrelated news, It's hilarious to me, given my long history of telling stupid people how stupid they are, that the admins here continue to give me warnings as if I care.
Now back on topic. Cute post bro. That mentality is exactly why this game can't become what it should become. It's that black and white, tunnel vision that the AV developers appear to share with you. You can still have your PvP game, though, I'm pretty sure that most of us would actually like a little more UO or SWG mixed in. I think most sandbox gamers who follow the game, do just that, follow the game.
But go ahead. Keep blaming us and telling us that we are wrong. While your beloved game continues to fail in drawing in it's targetted market. Continue believing that it has the best PvP and the most robust AI. Continue to make excuses for a small dev team with little money. Continue making excuses for a playerbase that is currently under 10,000 active subscriptions. Nothing to see here guys, nothing is wrong. Everything is rainbows and butterflies!
It's like you are just pissing all over yourself and you actually enjoy it.
(You know, some people like that crap... now that I think of it)
I will continue making excuses here, because nothing is wrong, this is the way game was made, and is intended. Enough of these same old dime a dozen people that come into original content, and asking to change it into something that has been done, 20 times over.
YOU HAVE RUINED THIS GAMING GENRE, you have opened the path for blood sucking money grabbers to come in and keep developing the same CRAP over and over again, and you dumbasses play into this, and buy these games, pay the subscription for the same thing dressed in different clothes. You are the reason people like me exist, you are the reason minimal original content has been developed in the past 10 years. Stop questioning full loot pvp, asking for PVE servers, stop trying to change it, cause those things are what makes darkfall different than the other piles of steaming feces.
The fact that people are hesitant to try this game because of full loot, PVP based game, wanting to PVE, is sad. There is a reason for full loot (gear is easy as shit to obtain, theres tons of it everywhere, who cares if you lose some? If you're looking into this game, and asking about this, than you should already know this.), PVE is still there, it just comes with a little risk, it makes the game more exciting, why would you want to kill the same ai OVER and OVER again, for what, to say you can beat a computer? where is the fun in that, i just dont see it, true challenge comes from other players, who aren't programmed to do the samething, where eventually you find the loophole to beat. It's different everytime.
Great post. People that want mindless drivel should look elsewhere. It's pretty sad when the last sliver of decent gaming that has any challenge whatsoever for the non-brain dead is being assaulted.
It's always amazed me as time progresses games get more and more simplified and worthless. Pretty soon gaming will be a spectator only sport. I'm still waiting for the first "game" that is just one long cut scene cinematic.
In totally unrelated news, It's hilarious to me, given my long history of telling stupid people how stupid they are, that the admins here continue to give me warnings as if I care.
Now back on topic. Cute post bro. That mentality is exactly why this game can't become what it should become. It's that black and white, tunnel vision that the AV developers appear to share with you. You can still have your PvP game, though, I'm pretty sure that most of us would actually like a little more UO or SWG mixed in. I think most sandbox gamers who follow the game, do just that, follow the game.
But go ahead. Keep blaming us and telling us that we are wrong. While your beloved game continues to fail in drawing in it's targetted market. Continue believing that it has the best PvP and the most robust AI. Continue to make excuses for a small dev team with little money. Continue making excuses for a playerbase that is currently under 10,000 active subscriptions. Nothing to see here guys, nothing is wrong. Everything is rainbows and butterflies!
It's like you are just pissing all over yourself and you actually enjoy it.
(You know, some people like that crap... now that I think of it)
I will continue making excuses here, because nothing is wrong, this is the way game was made, and is intended. Enough of these same old dime a dozen people that come into original content, and asking to change it into something that has been done, 20 times over.
YOU HAVE RUINED THIS GAMING GENRE, you have opened the path for blood sucking money grabbers to come in and keep developing the same CRAP over and over again, and you dumbasses play into this, and buy these games, pay the subscription for the same thing dressed in different clothes. You are the reason people like me exist, you are the reason minimal original content has been developed in the past 10 years. Stop questioning full loot pvp, asking for PVE servers, stop trying to change it, cause those things are what makes darkfall different than the other piles of steaming feces.
The fact that people are hesitant to try this game because of full loot, PVP based game, wanting to PVE, is sad. There is a reason for full loot (gear is easy as shit to obtain, theres tons of it everywhere, who cares if you lose some? If you're looking into this game, and asking about this, than you should already know this.), PVE is still there, it just comes with a little risk, it makes the game more exciting, why would you want to kill the same ai OVER and OVER again, for what, to say you can beat a computer? where is the fun in that, i just dont see it, true challenge comes from other players, who aren't programmed to do the samething, where eventually you find the loophole to beat. It's different everytime.
Great post. People that want mindless drivel should look elsewhere. It's pretty sad when the last sliver of decent gaming that has any challenge whatsoever for the non-brain dead is being assaulted.
It's always amazed me as time progresses games get more and more simplified and worthless. Pretty soon gaming will be a spectator only sport. I'm still waiting for the first "game" that is just one long cut scene cinematic.
What is really sad are DF fans thinking that DF is the last sliver of challenging gameplay when there are plenty of superior options out there; without the endless, arrogant, chest beating fans.
In totally unrelated news, It's hilarious to me, given my long history of telling stupid people how stupid they are, that the admins here continue to give me warnings as if I care.
Now back on topic. Cute post bro. That mentality is exactly why this game can't become what it should become. It's that black and white, tunnel vision that the AV developers appear to share with you. You can still have your PvP game, though, I'm pretty sure that most of us would actually like a little more UO or SWG mixed in. I think most sandbox gamers who follow the game, do just that, follow the game.
But go ahead. Keep blaming us and telling us that we are wrong. While your beloved game continues to fail in drawing in it's targetted market. Continue believing that it has the best PvP and the most robust AI. Continue to make excuses for a small dev team with little money. Continue making excuses for a playerbase that is currently under 10,000 active subscriptions. Nothing to see here guys, nothing is wrong. Everything is rainbows and butterflies!
It's like you are just pissing all over yourself and you actually enjoy it.
(You know, some people like that crap... now that I think of it)
I will continue making excuses here, because nothing is wrong, this is the way game was made, and is intended. Enough of these same old dime a dozen people that come into original content, and asking to change it into something that has been done, 20 times over.
YOU HAVE RUINED THIS GAMING GENRE, you have opened the path for blood sucking money grabbers to come in and keep developing the same CRAP over and over again, and you dumbasses play into this, and buy these games, pay the subscription for the same thing dressed in different clothes. You are the reason people like me exist, you are the reason minimal original content has been developed in the past 10 years. Stop questioning full loot pvp, asking for PVE servers, stop trying to change it, cause those things are what makes darkfall different than the other piles of steaming feces.
The fact that people are hesitant to try this game because of full loot, PVP based game, wanting to PVE, is sad. There is a reason for full loot (gear is easy as shit to obtain, theres tons of it everywhere, who cares if you lose some? If you're looking into this game, and asking about this, than you should already know this.), PVE is still there, it just comes with a little risk, it makes the game more exciting, why would you want to kill the same ai OVER and OVER again, for what, to say you can beat a computer? where is the fun in that, i just dont see it, true challenge comes from other players, who aren't programmed to do the samething, where eventually you find the loophole to beat. It's different everytime.
I guess you haven't read his post, and/or don't know what UO and SWG are.
I'll leave it at that, as the rest of your drivel shows clear ignorance about the sandbox genre and what DarkFall was supposed to be.
I heard Mists of Pandaria just came out, why don't you go boss it up as a cuddly wuddly panduh, dawwwww.
No but seriously, this game is a hardcore PVP game, if you can't deal with PVP, if you can't deal with losing you're precious pixels, stop posting, stop looking at the game, and just go play something else, cause this is what it is and this is how it should be. Carebear themepark mmos have ruined the mmo genre as we all know and leave no room for original content, DF is original, it's got something everything nowadays doesn't. This game is already dumbing down it's combat system so some of the "slower" players can keep up.
If you guys like action-packed skill-based pvp thrillrides (anyone who thinks otherwise about the skill part more than likely sucked at this part), massive siege warfare where you fight 50 VS 50, 100 VS 100, where the game feels like a game of starcraft, but from the perspective of a zealot ( perfect example, each one of those spells individually aimed, the target called) for control over resources, dominance over land, than this game is for you. There's more to DF than just this ofc, but this is the part I found most enjoyable.
I tell you this only one time again, so please pay attention ...
Hardcore PvP = WoW Arena PvP
The griefing thing from darkfall has nothing to do with hardcore.
Why? Simple... take the best Arena Gamer from WoW and the best darkfall player. Invente a new PvP game and let them play against each other. You will see how the WoW-Gamer rips the Darkfail-Boy appart.
I tell you this only one time again, so please pay attention ...
Hardcore PvP = WoW Arena PvP
The griefing thing from darkfall has nothing to do with hardcore.
Why? Simple... take the best Arena Gamer from WoW and the best darkfall player. Invente a new PvP game and let them play against each other. You will see how the WoW-Gamer rips the Darkfail-Boy appart.
A game is supposed to be the vision of the developer, not the players. If the players want to create a game; they can get together to make their own game. Don't make demands of a developer to go outside what their vision of their game should be.
"If at first you don't succeed, excessive force is probably the answer."
Comments
Well crafting plays a central role in Darkfall as your armour, jewellery, weapons, arrows, potions, food, enchants, and such like are all made by players. Since this gear gets lost a lot and also breaks you can see the demand for crafting. To get the mats to craft all that takes a lot of PvE, fun PvE at that thanks to the aim based combat and good mob AI and the danger of being attacked by players. With regards to exploring, there is plenty of that to do as the world is huge. I was my guilds cartographer at release, mapping out good spots for farm and good places to raid. Whenever I need to farm I also explore and try different places till I find a spot that suits me.
DanesLaw
DF Dev Tracker
it was the darkfall political map, i wont give you the link because it's been reported to have been hacked and have a virus on it or something, but in DFs current state the largest of the sieges are 30V30, nothing compared to launch when it used to be 100+V100+, that is what it should be like at DF:UW launch.
You fight over holdings, cities or hamlets, cities ofc are bigger, have more resources in them, more vendors, and provide more bind spots, where as hamlets are a smaller, but can still have important resources, mines being the most valuable for rare ore. There is also the regional factor, meaning you could have a holding near good mob spawns making farming and securing the spawns easier, allowing quick bank access. At the moment it's cheaper to siege hamlets than cities, and easier, seeing as how cities have walls to take down, and it takes longer to destroy the bindstone, also apart from claiming the city as your own, people where the best gear they can to sieges (cause you want to give it your all to keep your holding), so lots of loot is at stake as well, most of the time the amount of gear being used is sumed up to cost more than it takes to siege a holding. I'm not to sure what they plan for DF:UW i'm assuming they aren't going to change siege mechanics, although i think i remember reading or hearing somewhere that they plan to make cannons and siege equipment more useful/viable (in it's current state it's very costly and just used to take down walls/bindstones).
It's not whether crafting takes an important part of DarkFall or not, it's about how it's done. Again, most of AV's efforts were put into PvP. Everything else, from exploring, crafting, PvE, etc is extremely lackluster.
Crafting has no depth. It's overly simplistic, and coupled with harvesting is an AFK mess. Many of the armor sets are not even complete, not all items can be crafted. Being a dedicated crafter is absolutely pointless when most of the playerbase harvest/craft when they need to AFK and raise their stats.
PvE isn't anything special. Monsters will run around in circle when their HPs get low, hit their allies in the back, etc. Overall, nothing special. Chronicles Of Spellborn had a much more interesting and engaging mob AI.
Exploring. There's nothing to explore, looking for monster spawns is DarkFall is no different from any other MMORPG so it barely passes as exploring. And when developers feel the need to introduce Chaos Chest to encourage players to explore.....actually, I'll just leave it at that.
Even for Housing and Player Cities/Hamlet, AV cutted every corner possible. Static locations, non-customizable. Housing is acquired by looting a Deed from either a mob or chaos chest (just how ridiculous is that for a "sandbox"?).
On paper, DarkFall meets most of the criterias to be a sandbox game. In action, however, it barely passes as one. It's much closer to a PvP themepark without any rules, than an actual Sandbox MMORPG.
I have so many good memories of Darkfall, even as a 250 ping aussie who prefers pve (with risk).
Darkfall always felt like a world.
Defending cities was always a blast, dungeon runs with the guild were always fun, seiges well Lineage2 came close but Darkfall was better.
Out soloing mobs was always fun because you never knew when someone would show up and you'd be fighting to the death to survive.
Bring on DFUW, even with shitty ping I'll be there.
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76)
Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
There is no stealth nor steal skills in DarkFall. I do believe you can steal in Mortal Online however, but that game's doing worse than DarkFall.
Well...when those people come and make a thread in a game like darkfall that is totally sunny bear...then yes it does...
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
In totally unrelated news, It's hilarious to me, given my long history of telling stupid people how stupid they are, that the admins here continue to give me warnings as if I care.
Now back on topic. Cute post bro. That mentality is exactly why this game can't become what it should become. It's that black and white, tunnel vision that the AV developers appear to share with you. You can still have your PvP game, though, I'm pretty sure that most of us would actually like a little more UO or SWG mixed in. I think most sandbox gamers who follow the game, do just that, follow the game.
But go ahead. Keep blaming us and telling us that we are wrong. While your beloved game continues to fail in drawing in it's targetted market. Continue believing that it has the best PvP and the most robust AI. Continue to make excuses for a small dev team with little money. Continue making excuses for a playerbase that is currently under 10,000 active subscriptions. Nothing to see here guys, nothing is wrong. Everything is rainbows and butterflies!
It's like you are just pissing all over yourself and you actually enjoy it.
(You know, some people like that crap... now that I think of it)
I will agree with you on the admins here...its stupid how they love the carebears and you get warnings for the stupidist stuff...
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
You need none of that to attract more people. Most sandbox fans, and there are a ton who don't play DF, do not want those changes.
Try this.
- Less restrictive player housing and customizing
- Skill Cap with all crafting professions being a viable form of advancement
- Safer cities and safer ways to trade wares
- 3rd person perspective support and development for all types of combat
- The removal of bunny hopping, launch spells, macros and scripted spells and abilities (Making it less auto-pilot)
- Books, musical instruments, mini-games, etc. (more sandbox fluff that is non-PvP)
- Multiple character slots (Why is your Sandbox game allowing free class changes on the fly?)
- Harsher penalty for being a murderer (You can still PvP at high levels without killing young players with no reason)
Those are just a few things. None of them will undermine the core of the game. It will just add more options for people who are less interested in PvP, which is a good thing. The only thing to remotely affect PvP is the removal of bunny hopping and such. But, if you are actually in favor of an exploit that is frowned upon in literally every multiplayer game ever made, then I guess I can't argue with you.
There, I gave examples. What do the supporters have to say?
It's just that most DF players have never actually played a good sandbox MMO. And I know that, that, in itself is the main problem. They didn't have the pleasure to see what a truly well made sandox actually is or how it plays. So they don't have the success to draw from. All they know is Dark and Light, Shadowbane, and even some only know Darkfall and Mortal Online.
For whatever reason, sandbox developers have gone from a fully fledged fantasy world that invites all playstyles, to a large arena fantasy FPS deathmatch. Yet they still call it a sandbox. I guess... Only us old timers can see where I'm coming from.
It's a shame. I feel so sorry for these new sandbox gamers.
This is exactly spot on. For players who've never really played sandbox games, DarkFall is a great sandbox. But for anyone who has played many sandboxes, DarkFall clearly falls short.
Darkfall may not be perfect but it is still a sandbox game. The fact is noone else is making a game like it so we should give props to them for what they have acheived and encourage them with feedback and ideas on how to improve the game.
DanesLaw
DF Dev Tracker
Here's some feedback: Don't launch the game with a bunch of broken stuff and exploitable game mechanics. And actually punish the botters, and other people that exploit the broken mechanics for months, unlike the last launch.
With a full loot, PvP centric game, the devs must ensure the playing field is very level.
And last time, with the launch of DF and for many months after, it wasn't. And they didn't, and didn't care.
Why do you think so many people quit? Not because it was "too hardcore" and "they were carebears", it is that AV was unwilling or unable to keep a lid on the hacks/exploits and couldn't/wouldn't/didn't fix the exploitable mechanics like the Bloodwall and the "swimmers" and all the other people that botted their way to skills in the early days. Or punish those that did. Or just plain fix things that were broken.
I like sandbox games, but I like well made, non-exploitable games more.
When AV demonstrates it can put out the second, and as well as the first, they might get my money.
But until then, and based on their first release of DF which was a mess, they won't.
Very much this.
I don't get the point of people creating "if you don't like it leave or don't play it" threads. It doesn't make the game look better, it doesn't make the community look better, It doesn't encourage anyone to actually try the game.
Instead of telling people to "go away" why don't you help to alleviate some of the issue they may have. I love EVE and I talk to people all the time about the game. When they mention something that worries them about it, like FFA PvP, I explain to them how you can play for years and never worry about PvP. When they mention full loot, I epxlain that it's not hard to replace what you lose and that it's what allows the game to have such a robust economic side to it.
Instead of telling people who are worreid about full loot in DF to "go play WoW" why don't you explain that it's the only real penalty for dying and that it's INCREDIBLY EASY to replace items.
However, people who want to see more PvE in DF are absolutely correct. AV agrees with them, many of the formaer and current DF players agree with them. Elitist PvP doods, who only want a FFA deathmatch game disagree.
When poeple complain about constant ganking when you first start, they're right. AV agrees with them, many former and current players agree with them. Ganking was a huge problem when the game first released, all the places new players would have to grind mobs or resources to get started were camped by other players who just wanted to gank. AV did not impliment newbie protection and change the flagging mechanics becuase there was no problem, they did those things because there was indeed a problem.
People that want a sandbox game that offers more than grinding mobs, generic crafting, and PvP are correct. AV agrees with them, many former and current players agree with them. AV isn't redoing the world, dungeons, outdoor raid bosses, adding more quests and lore to the world because "there's so much to do in DF". They're doing these things to address the non PvP problems DF was facing.
AV even agreed that the game needed more "sandboxyness".
It's very much an arena deathmatch/ king of the hill MMO. Running around and fighting other players is pretty much the only point of the game.
I will continue making excuses here, because nothing is wrong, this is the way game was made, and is intended. Enough of these same old dime a dozen people that come into original content, and asking to change it into something that has been done, 20 times over.
YOU HAVE RUINED THIS GAMING GENRE, you have opened the path for blood sucking money grabbers to come in and keep developing the same CRAP over and over again, and you dumbasses play into this, and buy these games, pay the subscription for the same thing dressed in different clothes. You are the reason people like me exist, you are the reason minimal original content has been developed in the past 10 years. Stop questioning full loot pvp, asking for PVE servers, stop trying to change it, cause those things are what makes darkfall different than the other piles of steaming feces.
The fact that people are hesitant to try this game because of full loot, PVP based game, wanting to PVE, is sad. There is a reason for full loot (gear is easy as shit to obtain, theres tons of it everywhere, who cares if you lose some? If you're looking into this game, and asking about this, than you should already know this.), PVE is still there, it just comes with a little risk, it makes the game more exciting, why would you want to kill the same ai OVER and OVER again, for what, to say you can beat a computer? where is the fun in that, i just dont see it, true challenge comes from other players, who aren't programmed to do the samething, where eventually you find the loophole to beat. It's different everytime.
Great post. People that want mindless drivel should look elsewhere. It's pretty sad when the last sliver of decent gaming that has any challenge whatsoever for the non-brain dead is being assaulted.
It's always amazed me as time progresses games get more and more simplified and worthless. Pretty soon gaming will be a spectator only sport. I'm still waiting for the first "game" that is just one long cut scene cinematic.
What is really sad are DF fans thinking that DF is the last sliver of challenging gameplay when there are plenty of superior options out there; without the endless, arrogant, chest beating fans.
I guess you haven't read his post, and/or don't know what UO and SWG are.
I'll leave it at that, as the rest of your drivel shows clear ignorance about the sandbox genre and what DarkFall was supposed to be.
I tell you this only one time again, so please pay attention ...
Hardcore PvP = WoW Arena PvP
The griefing thing from darkfall has nothing to do with hardcore.
Why? Simple... take the best Arena Gamer from WoW and the best darkfall player. Invente a new PvP game and let them play against each other. You will see how the WoW-Gamer rips the Darkfail-Boy appart.
Silly argument. You don't know who'd win.