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BioWare is dead. Electronic Arts (EA) is all thats left :-(

24

Comments

  • RavenmaneRavenmane Pensacola, FLPosts: 246Member

    I am very wary when it comes to buy an EA product.  Sadly, they buy everythign that threatens their business, such as the rights to create an NFL game.  Anyone remember the 2K Football games?  Remember how they were awesome compared to Madden?  EA bought up the company that owned Bioware in hopes that the games they made would in turn make them money.  Problem is EA is one of the worst publishers out there.  They demand returns on their investments in an almost impossible manner.  And when one of their smaller companies fail, that studio is closed and the developers are dismissed, sent to look for a job elsewhere. 

    Take a look at Kingdoms of Amalur.  In it's own right it was an awesome game.  But due to 38 Studios being closed and EA pretty much giving up on it, we will neevr see another piece of DLC or game come from this unless someone fights to aquire the rights to the IP.  Because to me, Project Copernicus looked amazing.

    I can't place all the blame on Bioware since I'm sure inter-company issues are probably what cause a lot fo the original developers to leave.  Not SWTOR is stuck with a small team of original developers and the rest are people hired on by EA.  SWTOR was a beautiful idea but teh execution left me wanting somethign more.  I usually find myself wishing I could log into SWG again.

    "If at first you don't succeed, excessive force is probably the answer."
  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph SarajevoPosts: 1,070Member Uncommon
    they make only two great rpg's ; Baldurs Gate & KOTOR ,all other games are crap

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    Originally posted by JosephJR

    they make only two great rpg's ; Baldurs Gate & KOTOR ,all other games are crap

     

    Neverwinter (best toolingset ever) and Mass Effect were great games too, as well as DA:O and Jade Empire for some, but differing tastes I guess :-)
  • taziartaziar Hollywood, FLPosts: 52Member
    EA is the gray goo of gaming.
  • defector1968defector1968 Nar ShaddaaPosts: 393Member Common
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Origin
    Bullfrog
    Maxis
    Westwood
    Firaxis
    Mythic
    Bioware

    Who's EA going to buy up and ruin next then?

    EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry

    hope not Bethesda, arent many good left

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Bynt:

    Jeff hickman and talent. Wtf?

    You do know about this guy right, before ea bought mythic he was a CSR. He managed to brownose his way up with the new ea suits, elbowing the likes of Jacobs out of the way during his rise.

    He's not a programmer
    He's not an artist
    He's not even a music / sound guy.
    He has no hands on development skills, he's just a marketing / sales bullshitter

    Same applies to amangetello and barnet.

    In a toxic corporate environment like ea, the bullshitters and the politicians thrive, thoose with artistic talent and integrity get the hell out.
  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Origin
    Bullfrog
    Maxis
    Westwood
    Firaxis
    Mythic
    Bioware

    Who's EA going to buy up and ruin next then?

    EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry

    I'm still waiting for EA to attempt to buy out CD Projekt.  They already tried to float an offer to Valve, but Gabe told em to suck it.

  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member
    Originally posted by defector1968
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Origin
    Bullfrog
    Maxis
    Westwood
    Firaxis
    Mythic
    Bioware

    Who's EA going to buy up and ruin next then?

    EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry

    hope not Bethesda, arent many good left

    Bethesda is owned by Zenimax.  EA simply couldn't get the capital required to take over Zenimax, nor would Zenimax have any interest in such a deal.

  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,009Member Uncommon

    EA is not to blame here.  Bioware's overall game design is to blame.

    • Terrible Use of the Hero Engine
    • Annoying Traveling System (too much zoning and clicking)
    • Tiered Class Design (same as EQ2 at launch)
    • Combat System (mechanics of a Fantasy system didn't translate well)
    • Fleets as central hubs (instead of capital cities)
    • Exhaustion "Zones" (tattooine, really?)
    • Linear Questing on Rails (basically one zone after another to advance in PvE leveling)
    • Replay Value Diminished (creating alts wasn't enjoyable; stuck in same starter zones for specific classes, akin to WoW's phasing for Worgen/Goblin/Pandas)
    I haven't even touched upon the Legacy System, which was really bad, but i hope you all get the point.
    Remeber though, i didn't list the standard dungeons & pvp systems, because those are expected.  It's the overall design of the MMO that was bad.
  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by defector1968
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Origin
    Bullfrog
    Maxis
    Westwood
    Firaxis
    Mythic
    Bioware

    Who's EA going to buy up and ruin next then?

    EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry

    hope not Bethesda, arent many good left

    Yeah or Rockstar

    but hopefully with the poor year that EA have had, people will avoid them like the plague, and EA will not have enough money to con(vince) them to join them

    "EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry"

    Lets not forget their recent achivement image

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,705Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by revy66
    Source for Bioware being defunct?

    Google a bit, all the top talents left the company, most joining Bethesda under the name of Battlecry Studios.

    After DA2, ME3 and SWTOR, Bioware is dead, at least in my eyes

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Ea can't afford valve or bethseda
    Rockstar would be pushing it to.
  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Cedar Springs, MIPosts: 762Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bynt

    You do realize that when a company like electronic arts Buys another company like Bioware (or whatever the holding company is named), that the top management will be leaving very shortly afterwards?  There is a honeymoon/adjustment phase, but then those people will be leaving as there is New management now.  Not sure why anybody is surprised when a bigger company buys a smaller company that the leadership will be transitioning out soon.

    Its the whole concept of a ship can't have two captains.  As was mentioned in this thread already, several companies have been bought by EA, all of them have had the leadership transition out shortly there after.  The funny thing is people calling fail for this when that was how the buy out would most likely be structured.  New leadership won't be the leaders that employees look to for guidance until the old leaders are gone. 

    Take Mythic Entertainment for example, how long did Mark Jacobs stay around after EA purchased them?  Less than a year, not because the game did poorly, but because the buyout would be structured that way.  Same thing with Bioware, it was only a matter of time before leadership was gone.  Do people thing the doctors at Bioware were actually still writing stories for the games?  They haven't written anything for a long time, the people doing all the leg work still work there and are still producing, why EA bought them, to get the talent working for them.  Like Jeff Hickman, used to work for Mythic, now he's working on SWTOR, still around and still doing good stuff, but he was purchased talent.

    And don't forget, that when a company buys another company, they have to protect themselves and prevent the old owners from immediately starting a new company and stealing back all the employees that were just purchased, which is why many of these people go do something else for a while.  Its a non-competition clause.

     

    So True. and for a regular business this is acceptable.

    but MMOs are not regular businesses.... Yes legally they are... but in a practical sense they never will be. Same with any game development studio.

    When all the good stuff like game Dev Studios and other creative organizations have been bought up and streamlined like BioWare then maybe more people will take notice and ask why we are accepting this.

  • thekid1thekid1 GroningenPosts: 789Member

    No shit :)

    To me it was evident after reading about  Dragon age 2 and SWTOR.

    Especially since EA put the Bioware name on several other of their studios.

     

    "Nice" to see my gut feeling was right. That's another studio raped by EA. (still haven't forgiven them for Westwood!!)

  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Cedar Springs, MIPosts: 762Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by observer

    EA is not to blame here.  Bioware's overall game design is to blame.

    • Terrible Use of the Hero Engine
    • Annoying Traveling System (too much zoning and clicking)
    • Tiered Class Design (same as EQ2 at launch)
    • Combat System (mechanics of a Fantasy system didn't translate well)
    • Fleets as central hubs (instead of capital cities)
    • Exhaustion "Zones" (tattooine, really?)
    • Linear Questing on Rails (basically one zone after another to advance in PvE leveling)
    • Replay Value Diminished (creating alts wasn't enjoyable; stuck in same starter zones for specific classes, akin to WoW's phasing for Worgen/Goblin/Pandas)
    I haven't even touched upon the Legacy System, which was really bad, but i hope you all get the point.
    Remeber though, i didn't list the standard dungeons & pvp systems, because those are expected.  It's the overall design of the MMO that was bad.

    True... Bioware didn't know what they were doing to be honest... they never made a MMO before.... so EA is not the only one to blame...

    LA and Ea should have been thier jobs overseeing the project, and failed miserably.

    I'll leave it there.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by observer

    EA is not to blame here.  Bioware's overall game design is to blame.

    • Terrible Use of the Hero Engine
    • Annoying Traveling System (too much zoning and clicking)
    • Tiered Class Design (same as EQ2 at launch)
    • Combat System (mechanics of a Fantasy system didn't translate well)
    • Fleets as central hubs (instead of capital cities)
    • Exhaustion "Zones" (tattooine, really?)
    • Linear Questing on Rails (basically one zone after another to advance in PvE leveling)
    • Replay Value Diminished (creating alts wasn't enjoyable; stuck in same starter zones for specific classes, akin to WoW's phasing for Worgen/Goblin/Pandas)
    I haven't even touched upon the Legacy System, which was really bad, but i hope you all get the point.
    Remeber though, i didn't list the standard dungeons & pvp systems, because those are expected.  It's the overall design of the MMO that was bad.

    I still blame EA, as the game was huge, and Bioware are slow, and take ages to release stuff, as they make sure the game is all working OK before it gets launched. With EA, they wanted the game out ASAP, and getting them their monthly subs.

    There was an article with Dallas Dickinson (who also was a part of SWG and the reason they thought the game needed the NGE as I think it was her who said people did not want to be a moisture farmer or something, she may have been part of Bioware for SWTOR but she is not part of the Biioware team that gave Bioware its awesome reputation) saying that a lot of content was dropped to get the game out, and things like the spaceports looked all identical was because there was no time to make them different.

    You can not rush quality, and that is exactly what happened with SWTOR, it got rushed, and quality took a nose dive. EA rushed Bioware, but then with a game of this size Bioware would taken about 5 more years or maybe more, but then it was only big because EA poured more money into than Bioware could afford.

    Given what they had to work with, and in the timeframe they had, Bioware did well, and any other company would have made more of a pigs ear of it.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by observer

    EA is not to blame here.  Bioware's overall game design is to blame.

    • Terrible Use of the Hero Engine
    • Annoying Traveling System (too much zoning and clicking)
    • Tiered Class Design (same as EQ2 at launch)
    • Combat System (mechanics of a Fantasy system didn't translate well)
    • Fleets as central hubs (instead of capital cities)
    • Exhaustion "Zones" (tattooine, really?)
    • Linear Questing on Rails (basically one zone after another to advance in PvE leveling)
    • Replay Value Diminished (creating alts wasn't enjoyable; stuck in same starter zones for specific classes, akin to WoW's phasing for Worgen/Goblin/Pandas)
    I haven't even touched upon the Legacy System, which was really bad, but i hope you all get the point.
    Remeber though, i didn't list the standard dungeons & pvp systems, because those are expected.  It's the overall design of the MMO that was bad.

    I still blame EA, as the game was huge, and Bioware are slow, and take ages to release stuff, as they make sure the game is all working OK before it gets launched. With EA, they wanted the game out ASAP, and getting them their monthly subs.

    There was an article with Dallas Dickinson (who also was a part of SWG and the reason they thought the game needed the NGE as I think it was her who said people did not want to be a moisture farmer or something, she may have been part of Bioware for SWTOR but she is not part of the Biioware team that gave Bioware its awesome reputation) saying that a lot of content was dropped to get the game out, and things like the spaceports looked all identical was because there was no time to make them different.

    You can not rush quality, and that is exactly what happened with SWTOR, it got rushed, and quality took a nose dive. EA rushed Bioware, but then with a game of this size Bioware would taken about 5 more years or maybe more, but then it was only big because EA poured more money into than Bioware could afford.

    Given what they had to work with, and in the timeframe they had, Bioware did well, and any other company would have made more of a pigs ear of it.

    How was it rushed? They spend over 5 years on the darn game. More than most developers have these days.

    They wasted a hell of a resources on the stupid Space Part they should have left out at launch and spend that time on the ground game to polish it and to the level it is now with Patch 1.4 .

    If the game was released last year with the content, patches and updates up until and including patch 1.4, the overal response would have been a lot different.

    But they had to have Space in the game at launch and did it terribly. Huge waste of resources!

    Then directly after launch they could have focussed on the usual fixes and start working on adding mini games and other non-combat activities.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by observer

    EA is not to blame here.  Bioware's overall game design is to blame.

    • Terrible Use of the Hero Engine
    • Annoying Traveling System (too much zoning and clicking)
    • Tiered Class Design (same as EQ2 at launch)
    • Combat System (mechanics of a Fantasy system didn't translate well)
    • Fleets as central hubs (instead of capital cities)
    • Exhaustion "Zones" (tattooine, really?)
    • Linear Questing on Rails (basically one zone after another to advance in PvE leveling)
    • Replay Value Diminished (creating alts wasn't enjoyable; stuck in same starter zones for specific classes, akin to WoW's phasing for Worgen/Goblin/Pandas)
    I haven't even touched upon the Legacy System, which was really bad, but i hope you all get the point.
    Remeber though, i didn't list the standard dungeons & pvp systems, because those are expected.  It's the overall design of the MMO that was bad.

    I still blame EA, as the game was huge, and Bioware are slow, and take ages to release stuff, as they make sure the game is all working OK before it gets launched. With EA, they wanted the game out ASAP, and getting them their monthly subs.

    There was an article with Dallas Dickinson (who also was a part of SWG and the reason they thought the game needed the NGE as I think it was her who said people did not want to be a moisture farmer or something, she may have been part of Bioware for SWTOR but she is not part of the Biioware team that gave Bioware its awesome reputation) saying that a lot of content was dropped to get the game out, and things like the spaceports looked all identical was because there was no time to make them different.

    You can not rush quality, and that is exactly what happened with SWTOR, it got rushed, and quality took a nose dive. EA rushed Bioware, but then with a game of this size Bioware would taken about 5 more years or maybe more, but then it was only big because EA poured more money into than Bioware could afford.

    Given what they had to work with, and in the timeframe they had, Bioware did well, and any other company would have made more of a pigs ear of it.

    How was it rushed? They spend over 5 years on the darn game. More than most developers have these days.

    They wasted a hell of a resources on the stupid Space Part they should have left out at launch and spend that time on the ground game to polish it and to the level it is now with Patch 1.4 .

    If the game was released last year with the content, patches and updates up until and including patch 1.4, the overal response would have been a lot different.

    But they had to have Space in the game at launch and did it terribly. Huge waste of resources!

    Then directly after launch they could have focussed on the usual fixes and start working on adding mini games and other non-combat activities.

    Like I said there is a Behind the Scenes interview with several people including Dallas Dickinsion, and they said a lot of content had to be dropped, and the spaceports all  look identical because there was no time to make them look different.

    The game was HUGE ad not viable for a decent quality MMO within 5 years, and Bioware are generally slow (and even the original Mass Effect game took over 2 years to get released), and no doubt there was conflicts going on between the two - EA and Bioware, slowing things down even further. With all the money and hype with the game, the pressure of it all was also HUGE.

    Bioware would not have been able to do it without EAs backing, but if they could have done, the game would have been a whole lot better.

  • defector1968defector1968 Nar ShaddaaPosts: 393Member Common
    Originally posted by iceman00
    Originally posted by defector1968
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Origin
    Bullfrog
    Maxis
    Westwood
    Firaxis
    Mythic
    Bioware

    Who's EA going to buy up and ruin next then?

    EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry

    hope not Bethesda, arent many good left

    Bethesda is owned by Zenimax.  EA simply couldn't get the capital required to take over Zenimax, nor would Zenimax have any interest in such a deal.

    actually ZeniMax Media is parent company of Bethesda Softworks (its a side company) but most people dont know zenimax thast why i refered as bethesda

  • defector1968defector1968 Nar ShaddaaPosts: 393Member Common
    Originally posted by JeroKane

    How was it rushed? They spend over 5 years on the darn game. More than most developers have these days.

    They wasted a hell of a resources on the stupid Space Part they should have left out at launch and spend that time on the ground game to polish it and to the level it is now with Patch 1.4 .

    If the game was released last year with the content, patches and updates up until and including patch 1.4, the overal response would have been a lot different.

    But they had to have Space in the game at launch and did it terribly. Huge waste of resources!

    Then directly after launch they could have focussed on the usual fixes and start working on adding mini games and other non-combat activities.

    (yellow) LOL space? huge waste of money? thats a 2 month work, a shooter tunneled shootem up can be created from a single person in some months

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    Here is the article:

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/08/behind-the-scenes-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-throwing-people-at-the-problem/

    It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.

    "Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here

    During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”

     

  • DeeweDeewe Long Beach, CAPosts: 1,965Member
    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Here is the article:

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/08/behind-the-scenes-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-throwing-people-at-the-problem/

    It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.

    "Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here

    During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”

     

    Seems to me you missread.

     

    The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).

     

    It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.

    It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Deewe
    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Here is the article:

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/08/behind-the-scenes-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-throwing-people-at-the-problem/

    It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.

    "Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here

    During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”

     

    Seems to me you missread.

     

    The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).

     

    It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.

    It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october

    That is how Bioware rolled, in the past - they take their time creating gaming masterpieces, but EA rushed them. Bioware no longer had the luxury of taking their time with this

    They could not manage it well, because EA was breathing down their necks

     

     

  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by defector1968
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Origin
    Bullfrog
    Maxis
    Westwood
    Firaxis
    Mythic
    Bioware

    Who's EA going to buy up and ruin next then?

    EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry

    hope not Bethesda, arent many good left

    Yeah or Rockstar

    but hopefully with the poor year that EA have had, people will avoid them like the plague, and EA will not have enough money to con(vince) them to join them

    "EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry"

    Lets not forget their recent achivement image

    LOL :D

    Looking at: The Repopulation
    Preordering: None
    Playing: Random Games

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,454Member Uncommon

    I actually feel sorry for Bioware,they should have never sold out to EA.

    I go way back to the beginning of Electronic Arts,i was a HUGE fan of EA.Over the years i have seen this operation turn real bad.I was also a big fan of Bioware having owned and played the Baldurs gate games.

    I am at the point that i actually detest EA and will not support them at all.EA now owns the rights to Bioware but perhaps the guys that have left can start up a new Bio type developer name and regain their following.

    Maybe Biocode...Biofirm...Biotech gaming ..idk something to identify them with the gamers.


    Samoan Diamond

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