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This video explains what is wrong with WoW today,

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Comments

  • syntax42syntax42 Columbus, OHPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli
     Do you see the influx of MMO's coming out that have no longevity?  Do you see how subscribers are not sticking?  I don't want to call you blind, but the idea does come to mind.

     

    An attitude is simply an exertion of ones self.  Simply, to my statements, there is no MMO released since WoW Vanilla / TBC that has longevity, because new MMO's are stupidly simple.  This is not what gamers want .  WoW holds a special pass because players have commitment to their characters.  New MMO's just fail because they keep trying to give players every angle of the game as soon as they load it. /fail

    Again, you're exaggerating.  You don't get full sets of epic gear just for logging in.  Instead of claiming things are given away for free in MMOs, look at what is really happening.  Rewards are earned in less time and the randomization that used to frustrate players (like the person 2 posts above me) is being taken out.  Are you that bothered by the fact that you don't feel special because others can obtain the same rewards as you, making you feel less unique and less accomplished?  

     

    Plenty of MMOs are achieving success.  I'm not blind.  You're holding these tiny light bulbs and comparing them to the sun and saying they must be broken because they aren't as bright.  Duplicating the success of the most successful MMO is like attempting to duplicate Microsoft or the king of any other industry.  It takes more than a good product to reach that kind of success.  A game doesn't have to do that to be good, though.  Earning a profit and making a fun game is still a success in my book.

     

    The MMO that will replicate the success of WoW will need to cater to the casual crowd while giving elitists something to strive for that makes them feel special.  The key is to not let the reward obtained by the elitists affect the casual players in a way that makes them feel like they are missing out.

  • HurvartHurvart ystadPosts: 565Member
    Originally posted by syntax42
    Originally posted by Karteli
     Do you see the influx of MMO's coming out that have no longevity?  Do you see how subscribers are not sticking?  I don't want to call you blind, but the idea does come to mind.

     

    An attitude is simply an exertion of ones self.  Simply, to my statements, there is no MMO released since WoW Vanilla / TBC that has longevity, because new MMO's are stupidly simple.  This is not what gamers want .  WoW holds a special pass because players have commitment to their characters.  New MMO's just fail because they keep trying to give players every angle of the game as soon as they load it. /fail

    Again, you're exaggerating.  You don't get full sets of epic gear just for logging in.  Instead of claiming things are given away for free in MMOs, look at what is really happening.  Rewards are earned in less time and the randomization that used to frustrate players (like the person 2 posts above me) is being taken out.  Are you that bothered by the fact that you don't feel special because others can obtain the same rewards as you, making you feel less unique and less accomplished?  

     

    Plenty of MMOs are achieving success.  I'm not blind.  You're holding these tiny light bulbs and comparing them to the sun and saying they must be broken because they aren't as bright.  Duplicating the success of the most successful MMO is like attempting to duplicate Microsoft or the king of any other industry.  It takes more than a good product to reach that kind of success.  A game doesn't have to do that to be good, though.  Earning a profit and making a fun game is still a success in my book.

     

    The MMO that will replicate the success of WoW will need to cater to the casual crowd while giving elitists something to strive for that makes them feel special.  The key is to not let the reward obtained by the elitists affect the casual players in a way that makes them feel like they are missing out.

    There are a lot of games available. I believe that makes it difficult for one game to become big like WoW. To much competition. Even if some of them are very good games...

    When WoW was released it was special. There was no other game like it. And there was also a lot of loyal Blizzard fans that wanted to try it. People that had never played MMO:s with friends that had never played MMO:s. Today the market is different.  MMO:s are not a new genre for most gamers. People play a game and when a new game is released they want to try that instead.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by syntax42
    Originally posted by Karteli
     Do you see the influx of MMO's coming out that have no longevity?  Do you see how subscribers are not sticking?  I don't want to call you blind, but the idea does come to mind.

     

    An attitude is simply an exertion of ones self.  Simply, to my statements, there is no MMO released since WoW Vanilla / TBC that has longevity, because new MMO's are stupidly simple.  This is not what gamers want .  WoW holds a special pass because players have commitment to their characters.  New MMO's just fail because they keep trying to give players every angle of the game as soon as they load it. /fail

    Again, you're exaggerating.  You don't get full sets of epic gear just for logging in.  Instead of claiming things are given away for free in MMOs, look at what is really happening.  Rewards are earned in less time and the randomization that used to frustrate players (like the person 2 posts above me) is being taken out.  Are you that bothered by the fact that you don't feel special because others can obtain the same rewards as you, making you feel less unique and less accomplished?  

     

    Plenty of MMOs are achieving success.  I'm not blind.  You're holding these tiny light bulbs and comparing them to the sun and saying they must be broken because they aren't as bright.  Duplicating the success of the most successful MMO is like attempting to duplicate Microsoft or the king of any other industry.  It takes more than a good product to reach that kind of success.  A game doesn't have to do that to be good, though.  Earning a profit and making a fun game is still a success in my book.

     

    The MMO that will replicate the success of WoW will need to cater to the casual crowd while giving elitists something to strive for that makes them feel special.  The key is to not let the reward obtained by the elitists affect the casual players in a way that makes them feel like they are missing out.

    I played a llot of Vanilla WoW back in the day, and I never got near Naxx.  My guild only got close to finishing Blackwing Lair (BWL).  I don't feel special, and I don't feel jaded, .. I envy all those players who actually did go past where I was.

    If I was able to clear Karazan in a day with my guild within the first week or 2 of TBC, I doubt I would have still played WoW.  It was the strive for something "more" that kept players like me logging in.

    The genre seems to be more controlled now by players who couldn't really form social bonds and couldn't be asked to sit in a chair for several hours to participate.  It's all NOW NOW NOW. blech.

     

    I'm not an elitist, I was just an average player, but I had a ton of fun then.  The Elitist argument is null .. fun is fun.  At least back in the mid 2000's gamers had the option of going hardcore or going casual .. MMO's today are all casual with no option.  Which is why they lack longevity, IMO.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

    sorry your argument defeats itself.

    u want players to enjoy the journey, but less then 1% were seeing the content, there was no journey for the rest of the players.

    being difficult for the sake of being difficult is not a genius design, it's lazy, and cutting off players from seeing content is never a good thing. notably when it comes to these lobby style raiding-is-the-only-end-game style titles with a monthly fee. they needed to make two raids, one for the elitist jerks and one for the rest of the playerbase.

     

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    sorry your argument defeats itself.

    u want players to enjoy the journey, but less then 1% were seeing the content, there was no journey for the rest of the players.

    being difficult for the sake of being difficult is not a genius design, it's lazy, and cutting off players from seeing content is never a good thing. notably when it comes to these lobby style raiding-is-the-only-end-game style titles with a monthly fee. they needed to make two raids, one for the elitist jerks and one for the rest of the playerbase.

     

    That argument is why I hate MMO's sometimes.  MMO's used to bring gamers together to play.  Now they just bring anyone and everyone, with the entitlement you speak of (thanks WoW).  You expect to have the whole game layed out for you, and you don't expect to work for anything.  You expect to be on equal ground with everyone, even though you play 10 minutes per week versus others that spend 20 hours per week.

     

    Wonderful.

     

    Heres something for you .. the extra content was not meant for you.  If you strive for it, you might achieve it, but it isn't guaranteed.  It is, however, there for the taking.  You are not being opressed.

     

    If I play any game I don't simply demand to see the end-game cinematic.  I want to work for it.  Why even buy a game when you only want to see the end?  Buy Mario Bros and demand to see the Princess rescued, without struggling through Mario's trials and tribulations? oh my.. Mama-mia.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • syntax42syntax42 Columbus, OHPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli
    I played a llot of Vanilla WoW back in the day, and I never got near Naxx.  My guild only got close to finishing Blackwing Lair (BWL).  I don't feel special, and I don't feel jaded, .. I envy all those players who actually did go past where I was.

    If I was able to clear Karazan in a day with my guild within the first week or 2 of TBC, I doubt I would have still played WoW.  It was the strive for something "more" that kept players like me logging in.

    The genre seems to be more controlled now by players who couldn't really form social bonds and couldn't be asked to sit in a chair for several hours to participate.  It's all NOW NOW NOW. blech.

     

    I'm not an elitist, I was just an average player, but I had a ton of fun then.  The Elitist argument is null .. fun is fun.  At least back in the mid 2000's gamers had the option of going hardcore or going casual .. MMO's today are all casual with no option.  Which is why they lack longevity, IMO.

     

    I get it then.  You want a carrot-on-a-stick that you can never get but always have to chase.  There is nothing wrong with wanting that.  I think the game has changed for the better for people like me, who want to see content without feeling like we are excluded for having a real life.  The gear and difficulty progression system made the carrot on a stick attractive for some, but frustrating for others.  As I pointed out, the next MMO to achieve WoW's success will have to ensure the carrot isn't attractive to the casual crowd but still give something to chase for the crowd that wants to chase a carrot.  If I could figure out how to do that, I would be pitching my game idea to companies right now.

  • syntax42syntax42 Columbus, OHPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    sorry your argument defeats itself.

    u want players to enjoy the journey, but less then 1% were seeing the content, there was no journey for the rest of the players.

    being difficult for the sake of being difficult is not a genius design, it's lazy, and cutting off players from seeing content is never a good thing. notably when it comes to these lobby style raiding-is-the-only-end-game style titles with a monthly fee. they needed to make two raids, one for the elitist jerks and one for the rest of the playerbase.

     

    That argument is why I hate MMO's sometimes.  MMO's used to bring gamers together to play.  Now they just bring anyone and everyone, with the entitlement you speak of (thanks WoW).  You expect to have the whole game layed out for you, and you don't expect to work for anything.  You expect to be on equal ground with everyone, even though you play 10 minutes per week versus others that spend 20 hours per week.

     

    Wonderful.

     

    Heres something for you .. the extra content was not meant for you.  If you strive for it, you might achieve it, but it isn't guaranteed.  It is, however, there for the taking.  You are not being opressed.

     

    If I play any game I don't simply demand to see the end-game cinematic.  I want to work for it.  Why even buy a game when you only want to see the end?  Buy Mario Bros and demand to see the Princess rescued, without struggling through Mario's trials and tribulations? oh my.. Mama-mia.

    I thought you were understanding the other side's point of view until I saw this post.  Again, you're exaggerating things far beyond the reality of the situation.  

     

    The post by itgrowls was not expressing a sense of entitlement.  It is the same argument I made earlier.  Why even make a game if only a small percentage of people who play it can enjoy it?  Vanilla WoW wasn't made so that you had to earn your way through the content.  You had to get lucky with drops and rolls, in addition to playing more hours than an average person can spend gaming.

    Nobody is asking for end-game to be handed to them.  We just want to be able to get there.  The system they had in place did not allow that for most people.  It wasn't atttainable.  We want attainable, not a free hand-out.

    You are being an elitist without realizing it.  You want something that only the elite can reach.  Anything less is a hand-out to you, which is a complete exaggeration of the truth.  Get your head out of the dark hole it is in and face reality.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by syntax42
    Originally posted by Karteli
    I played a llot of Vanilla WoW back in the day, and I never got near Naxx.  My guild only got close to finishing Blackwing Lair (BWL).  I don't feel special, and I don't feel jaded, .. I envy all those players who actually did go past where I was.

    If I was able to clear Karazan in a day with my guild within the first week or 2 of TBC, I doubt I would have still played WoW.  It was the strive for something "more" that kept players like me logging in.

    The genre seems to be more controlled now by players who couldn't really form social bonds and couldn't be asked to sit in a chair for several hours to participate.  It's all NOW NOW NOW. blech.

     

    I'm not an elitist, I was just an average player, but I had a ton of fun then.  The Elitist argument is null .. fun is fun.  At least back in the mid 2000's gamers had the option of going hardcore or going casual .. MMO's today are all casual with no option.  Which is why they lack longevity, IMO.

     

    I get it then.  You want a carrot-on-a-stick that you can never get but always have to chase.  There is nothing wrong with wanting that.  I think the game has changed for the better for people like me, who want to see content without feeling like we are excluded for having a real life.  The gear and difficulty progression system made the carrot on a stick attractive for some, but frustrating for others.  As I pointed out, the next MMO to achieve WoW's success will have to ensure the carrot isn't attractive to the casual crowd but still give something to chase for the crowd that wants to chase a carrot.  If I could figure out how to do that, I would be pitching my game idea to companies right now.

    Aye, if it was figured out, it would be done :-)

     

    The carrot on the stick is in all games really.  It's a combination of social interaction capabilities and the number of carrots on the stick that seem to determine longevity.  No social bonds = customers gone.  Eat the last carrot = customers gone.  MMO's of the past had this down (a few still do though not mainstream).

    Don't feed your customers all the carrots in the first month, and institute tools for heavy social interaction.  Because a solo gamer who feels that he/she has finished the game will leave.  Leaving = lost revenue, possibly resulting in a failed game, ESPECIALLY if a critical mass departs.

     

    This can really be applied to many recent releases, SWTOR in particular.  Maybe GW2 also, but too early to tell (XFire is tanking though. 10-20% per week).

     

    But look at SWTOR, the game was EZ mode pretty much, targetting a "casual" market.  Some fans got pissy and left.  Many others didn't like what they saw.  The future of SWTOR is hinging on F2P now.  It just didn't have either social interactions or a carrott on the stick .. or at least not in MMO sense.  Any raid gear in SWTOR was just 5% better than old gear with rediculous graphics .. raid gear was easy to get or it was something similar found on the AH (either or).  Zzzzzz.  Hardly a carrot, and more people could care less.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • zephermarkuszephermarkus qunatico, MDPosts: 201Member
    Originally posted by Lissyl

    No.

    You know what happened to that teary-eyed trip down nostalgia lane?  The raiders happened.

    When, in TBC, they decided it was better to poach other guilds instead of taking newer players, it happened.  When they decided that it was no longer their place to teach new people how to raid, it happened.  When they decided that they were too good to have to regear new recruits, it happened.  They did it to themselves.  And what -happened- was that a chain of guilds started forming and people would move from one to another to another straight on up until they saw the content...then many of them would go on their way.  After all, you recruit a bunch of guild-hoppers, why would you be surprised when they guild-hop?  This led to only an incredibly tiny number of people seeing anything and led to extreme frustration on the part of everyone else who -also- wanted that magical journey but couldn't get it because of the guys at the top stealing their talent out of laziness.  They left the room for the 'we deserve to see it too' argument, and -now- they're all misty-eyed about it, complaining to all and sundry about how the games are trash nowadays, all the while refusing to accept the responsibility for causing it in the first place.

    No, what was trash was the entitlement attitude that the top raiders had when they tore apart the guilding system.  You reap what you sow.

    This is true on all points I was in a top end raiding guild in vanilla we were doing mc when the teir gear didnt even have graphics yet and dropped teir 2 items aswell and did see the end of naxx had 9/9 teir 3 and we got most of are raiders from other guilds if someone left. It took to long to regear and teach a new person so we snag the most geared people we could find and teach them less time invested. On a side note I sold my 9/9 teir 3 char for 2000 dollars had thudefury aswell this shows the lengths people would go to to see content which is a shame. Yes we did it to are selves I say many people just go to new realms trying to find a guild to see the content. Me and my best friend coudn't even raid together cause my guild had to many druids so he went to a new server..Now we play together and love it.

  • Thomas2006Thomas2006 Millersburg, INPosts: 805Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Homitu
    I definitely agree with a lot of the video, and I actually think there is a way to maintain both the elitism (not used in the traditional negative sense) of top tier raids as well as accessibility.  The answer lies in not making previous raid tiers (let alone previous expansions' raids and dungeons) utterly obsolete the moment a new tier of content is released.  Imagine how much content current WoW would have if it featured a down-scaling system similar to GW2 or even FFXI.  This isn't meant to be a "praise the holy features of GW2!" moment, so bear with me.  I'm simply inviting you to imagine this one particular feature, perhaps not implemented in exactly the same way, in an aged game like WoW, which now features 4 full expansions of content.  Imagine if every WoW raid and dungeon was still challenging and offered relevant rewards.  There would be no need to remake 1 or 2 classic dungeons with each expansion; they'd all still be available!But not only that, the top tier of content could once again be made to be ridiculously challenging and become an elite feat.  The rest of the WoW community, that 99%, would still have so much content to enjoy.  The journey would continue to exist for both subsets.  Then when a new tier comes out once again, that supposed 1% would move on (in addition to still being able to raid any other content they please), while the previous raids would continue to be progressed by the rest of the WoW raiding community.  This content will eventually be able to be seen, relevantly, by all WoW players as a function of both added time dedicated to downing those bosses as well as slightly improved stats (after down-scaling).  Now, I do think several things will need to be monitored to actually make all content relevant, namely dungeon rewards compared to current tier gear as well as just how challenging the older content remains after down-scaling.  I think increased gear power after down-scaling needs to be significant enough to allow players who couldn't beat that content while it was top tier to get in there and, after making an earnest effort, begin to down the bosses, but not so significant that it feels like a level 85 group returning to a level 70 raid and just blasting their way through, or even a T6 geared group returning to T4 content and completely dominating everything without abiding by the raid mechanics.  But those are all just the logistics of implementation.  The idea stands regardless of tuning.  

    You do know that the lead dev has come out and said that he wants to do a scaling system similar to GW2 as far as dungeons go. That way if a 90 wants to group with a 15 they can and they will still get good gear for a 90. They have just finished all the tech needed to make that happen. Its just a matter of finding a good balance as far as the gear / xp goes for the higher player.

    Something they have wanted to do and now that the tech is there is just a matter of making it happen / taking the time to do it.

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,858Member Uncommon

    I wonder how many of that 1% were the players the genre was originally for and about.

    I wonder if there's a correlation between those players, the new players to the genre, and the simplification of certain aspects.

    I just wonder.

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member
    Originally posted by Ginaz
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by Luxely

    LOL, you guys bitch about everything!!! Nothing pleases you, right? Having the games stay  the way they are for life is not profittable and people will get bored with it fast. They do not make money that way. -_-

    At least this weeds out the losers from WoW. 

     

    For those who bitches about certain games that disappointed them; why don't you make your own?

     

     

    LIVE LONG WOW! <3 

    Saying WoW sucks is bitching.

    Having facts and figures that show, as the raids have become easier the growth in WoW has slowed then declined. That is an assesment.

     

    Facts?  The fact is the WoW reached its peak with player numbers during WOTLK, which many of you so called "old school harcore" types dimissed as too easy.  Blizzard ramped up the difficulty when Cata launched and guess what happened?  They lost a lot of players because of it.  They eased up on the difficulty and it slowed the bleeding quite a bit.  MoP is a return to WOTLK type of difficulty. 

    I am not arguing the video is right or wrong. (although I do agree with it) I am saying, a well presented argument where you make a thought out case, is different than Bitching.

    Not everyone who complains about a game is a Troll (This is an overall assessment how, on this site, if you say anything negitive about a game, you are accused of being a troll)

    Not everyone who enjoys a game and sticks up for it is a fanboi (Same as above)

     

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by Ginaz
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by Luxely

    LOL, you guys bitch about everything!!! Nothing pleases you, right? Having the games stay  the way they are for life is not profittable and people will get bored with it fast. They do not make money that way. -_-

    At least this weeds out the losers from WoW. 

     

    For those who bitches about certain games that disappointed them; why don't you make your own?

     

     

    LIVE LONG WOW! <3 

    Saying WoW sucks is bitching.

    Having facts and figures that show, as the raids have become easier the growth in WoW has slowed then declined. That is an assesment.

     

    Facts?  The fact is the WoW reached its peak with player numbers during WOTLK, which many of you so called "old school harcore" types dimissed as too easy.  Blizzard ramped up the difficulty when Cata launched and guess what happened?  They lost a lot of players because of it.  They eased up on the difficulty and it slowed the bleeding quite a bit.  MoP is a return to WOTLK type of difficulty. 

    Umm Blizzard merged with Activision in 2009, during WotLK.  Quality went down from there.  Cataclysm was an Activisoin-Blizzard attempt to spark life back into the game.  Folks like me found out the difference that Activision brought .. quality went down, details went down, a few raid bosses were hard? Pffft. hardly an expansion.

     

    I saw the difference.  I didn't like it and I unsubscribbed.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Amory, MSPosts: 2,544Member Uncommon

    The major problem with this guy's video 2 minutes in is that he starts insinuating that the journey means the same thing to everyone as it does to him.  His examples rely almost entirely on achieving world firsts or being one of the view to complete a difficult raid encounter.  What about those of us who don't give two flips about  raid-based achievement?  What about those of us who just enjoyed leveling characters with buddies then running some casual raids on the side?  I've played WoW since launch, but I really got into it near the end of TBC, and I can say that I certainly enjoyed my journey.

    This guy comes off as a crybaby ex-WoW raider who is upset because he can't feel his e-penis getting hard every time he walks into Stormwind with his high item level purples.  Everyone has them now, so he no longer feels special.  Because his entire sense of enjoyment of the game is derived from its ability to make him feel superior, he no longer has any reason to enjoy WoW.

  • Goll25Goll25 bath, PAPosts: 187Member

    I kept posting that around lately. This is 100% correct though!

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    The major problem with this guy's video 2 minutes in is that he starts insinuating that the journey means the same thing to everyone as it does to him.  His examples rely almost entirely on achieving world firsts or being one of the view to complete a difficult raid encounter.  What about those of us who don't give two flips about  raid-based achievement?  What about those of us who just enjoyed leveling characters with buddies then running some casual raids on the side?  I've played WoW since launch, but I really got into it near the end of TBC, and I can say that I certainly enjoyed my journey.

    This guy comes off as a crybaby ex-WoW raider who is upset because he can't feel his e-penis getting hard every time he walks into Stormwind with his high item level purples.  Everyone has them now, so he no longer feels special.  Because his entire sense of enjoyment of the game is derived from its ability to make him feel superior, he no longer has any reason to enjoy WoW.

    If you "really" got into WoW at the end of TBC you would know the value of purples, and not be trivializing them now.

     

    I feel it is silly to have everyone now in "epic" purple gear.  Does this make everyone feel normal now?  Is everyone comfortable in the same gear?

     

    I'd get my ass kicked if I went into my ADnD group and demanded that we all have the same level & gear, regardless of time spent campaigning.  And yes, contrary to stigma, some roleplayers are bodybuilders.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Amory, MSPosts: 2,544Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    The major problem with this guy's video 2 minutes in is that he starts insinuating that the journey means the same thing to everyone as it does to him.  His examples rely almost entirely on achieving world firsts or being one of the view to complete a difficult raid encounter.  What about those of us who don't give two flips about  raid-based achievement?  What about those of us who just enjoyed leveling characters with buddies then running some casual raids on the side?  I've played WoW since launch, but I really got into it near the end of TBC, and I can say that I certainly enjoyed my journey.

    This guy comes off as a crybaby ex-WoW raider who is upset because he can't feel his e-penis getting hard every time he walks into Stormwind with his high item level purples.  Everyone has them now, so he no longer feels special.  Because his entire sense of enjoyment of the game is derived from its ability to make him feel superior, he no longer has any reason to enjoy WoW.

    If you "really" got into WoW at the end of TBC you would know the value of purples, and not be trivializing them now.

     

    I feel it is silly to have everyone now in "epic" purple gear.  Does this make everyone feel normal now?  Is everyone comfortable in the same gear?

     

    I'd get my ass kicked if I went into my ADnD group and demanded that we all have the same level, regardless of time spent campaigning.

    First of all, everyone doesn't have the same gear regardless of time spent.  It takes time to obtain enough badges for tiered armor, and even then, the badge gear isn't the highest level gear a raider can achieve.  The difference is that these days, gear is more about a number than a physical appearance.  Everyone looks the same because Blizzard is lazy and doesn't really provide players with a wide variety of endgame armor styles.  Beyond that, there's actually a fair amount of gear variety that makes it easy to distinguish players who have been raiding for a week from players who have been raiding for months as long as you have a gear score or item level add-on.  Raid bosses drop tokens to exchange for better gear among other loot that is often better than common badge gear.  This isn't even getting into heroic raid drops.  Heroic raiding is something people always forget about when mentioning WoW anyway.

    Regardless of all that, I don't really care about other people.  My sense of enjoyment is not derived from what other people have or do not have.  I know what I enjoy doing in WoW, and I do what I have to in order to get to that point.  I really don't need some sort of gold star to prove to everyone that I'm elite because I've been subscribed longer than the other guy.

  • nsignificnsignific ljPosts: 212Member

    Basically crying about how more people than just his elite get to see content?

    Yeah, very interesting video.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by SuperXero89
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    The major problem with this guy's video 2 minutes in is that he starts insinuating that the journey means the same thing to everyone as it does to him.  His examples rely almost entirely on achieving world firsts or being one of the view to complete a difficult raid encounter.  What about those of us who don't give two flips about  raid-based achievement?  What about those of us who just enjoyed leveling characters with buddies then running some casual raids on the side?  I've played WoW since launch, but I really got into it near the end of TBC, and I can say that I certainly enjoyed my journey.

    This guy comes off as a crybaby ex-WoW raider who is upset because he can't feel his e-penis getting hard every time he walks into Stormwind with his high item level purples.  Everyone has them now, so he no longer feels special.  Because his entire sense of enjoyment of the game is derived from its ability to make him feel superior, he no longer has any reason to enjoy WoW.

    If you "really" got into WoW at the end of TBC you would know the value of purples, and not be trivializing them now.

     

    I feel it is silly to have everyone now in "epic" purple gear.  Does this make everyone feel normal now?  Is everyone comfortable in the same gear?

     

    I'd get my ass kicked if I went into my ADnD group and demanded that we all have the same level, regardless of time spent campaigning.

    First of all, everyone doesn't have the same gear regardless of time spent.  It takes time to obtain enough badges for tiered armor, and even then, the badge gear isn't the highest level gear a raider can achieve.  The difference is that these days, gear is more about a number than a physical appearance.  Everyone looks the same because Blizzard is lazy and doesn't really provide players with a wide variety of endgame armor styles.  Beyond that, there's actually a fair amount of gear variety that makes it easy to distinguish players who have been raiding for a week from players who have been raiding for months as long as you have a gear score or item level add-on.  Raid bosses drop tokens to exchange for better gear among other loot that is often better than common badge gear.  This isn't even getting into heroic raid drops.  Heroic raiding is something people always forget about when mentioning WoW anyway.

    Regardless of all that, I don't really care about other people.  My sense of enjoyment is not derived from what other people have or do not have.  I know what I enjoy doing in WoW, and I do what I have to in order to get to that point.  I really don't need some sort of gold star to prove to everyone that I'm elite because I've been subscribed longer than the other guy.

    But do you get a feeling of acomplishment knowing that you bested the game in whatever your time frame is, a week, a couple weeks or even a month?  Is the tier grind sufficient, or would you rather tiers stack (like MC, BWL, NAXX).

     

    I prefer tiers to stack, that adds to my feeling of accomplishment.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • ReizlaReizla AlkmaarPosts: 3,301Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zecktorin
    Originally posted by Reizla
    This is not a problem with WoW only. It's a problem with all (older) MMORPG's out there. I used to play Lineage II since C2 (2005). It was damn hard then. By now every new player can hit 85 in less than 1 month, and it took me 4 years to reach it back then.
    Just face it us (old-school players) are a dieing breed and either have to giev in to the kids who want things easy or quit playing MMORPG's all together *opting latter choice*

    Not yet theres still hope with sandbox games coming from indie devs. EvE is doing well( good game but im a littel biased on that lol). Archeage looks promising as a pve sandbox. Lets not forget Darkfall which I will be playing. I'm a big pvp guy and im currently enjoying the hell out of the first darkfall.

    As far as themeparks I think TESO jsu tmight surprise people, but news so far isn't looking good.

    Naming only 4 titles here proofs my point I think... With over 400 games in the list here on MMORPG.com, 1% of the games that didn't get that easy for the general public is real sad :(

    I know EVE is awesome, IF you like a SciFi game (which I don't). I am waiting for ArcheAge as well, I hope that'll give me back that old Lineage Ii feeling of slow progression and actually being proud of accomplishments. DF might be good, but it's 1st person combat, and I just suck at that... TESo as themepark is one thing I'll probably skip for sure. TES is a sandbox siingle-player and they make it a themepark for online? #FAIL!

    AsRock 990FX Extreme3
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    GEiL 16Gb DDR3 1600Mhz
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  • AusareAusare adamstown, MDPosts: 850Member
    You call it easier....many call it more fun. Not enough people to support, financially, non fun games like eve and df.
  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Amory, MSPosts: 2,544Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperXero89
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    The major problem with this guy's video 2 minutes in is that he starts insinuating that the journey means the same thing to everyone as it does to him.  His examples rely almost entirely on achieving world firsts or being one of the view to complete a difficult raid encounter.  What about those of us who don't give two flips about  raid-based achievement?  What about those of us who just enjoyed leveling characters with buddies then running some casual raids on the side?  I've played WoW since launch, but I really got into it near the end of TBC, and I can say that I certainly enjoyed my journey.

    This guy comes off as a crybaby ex-WoW raider who is upset because he can't feel his e-penis getting hard every time he walks into Stormwind with his high item level purples.  Everyone has them now, so he no longer feels special.  Because his entire sense of enjoyment of the game is derived from its ability to make him feel superior, he no longer has any reason to enjoy WoW.

    If you "really" got into WoW at the end of TBC you would know the value of purples, and not be trivializing them now.

     

    I feel it is silly to have everyone now in "epic" purple gear.  Does this make everyone feel normal now?  Is everyone comfortable in the same gear?

     

    I'd get my ass kicked if I went into my ADnD group and demanded that we all have the same level, regardless of time spent campaigning.

    First of all, everyone doesn't have the same gear regardless of time spent.  It takes time to obtain enough badges for tiered armor, and even then, the badge gear isn't the highest level gear a raider can achieve.  The difference is that these days, gear is more about a number than a physical appearance.  Everyone looks the same because Blizzard is lazy and doesn't really provide players with a wide variety of endgame armor styles.  Beyond that, there's actually a fair amount of gear variety that makes it easy to distinguish players who have been raiding for a week from players who have been raiding for months as long as you have a gear score or item level add-on.  Raid bosses drop tokens to exchange for better gear among other loot that is often better than common badge gear.  This isn't even getting into heroic raid drops.  Heroic raiding is something people always forget about when mentioning WoW anyway.

    Regardless of all that, I don't really care about other people.  My sense of enjoyment is not derived from what other people have or do not have.  I know what I enjoy doing in WoW, and I do what I have to in order to get to that point.  I really don't need some sort of gold star to prove to everyone that I'm elite because I've been subscribed longer than the other guy.

    But do you get a feeling of acomplishment knowing that you bested the game in whatever your time frame is, a week, a couple weeks or even a month?  Is the tier grind sufficient, or would you rather tiers stack (like MC, BWL, NAXX).

     

    I prefer tiers to stack, that adds to my feeling of accomplishment.

    I don't care about your sense of accomplishment though. That's the problem.  You really shouldn't be using a video game to derive a sense of accomplishment.   I don't understand why so many people can't seem to enjoy a video game for any other reason aside from its ability to make them feel good about themselves.  It's sad really.

    Yes, I do feel accomplished when I complete a raid on the first try, but then again, I put things in perspective.  I realize it's not that big of a deal.  It's a video game.  No one in the real world cares that you finished Nax 25-man after 3 months of failed attempts.  Likewise, I do not enjoy beating my head against a brick wall for months trying to complete some content.  If that happens, I'm likely to find more productive ways to spend my time.  It's honestly a balancing act.  You want content that is not mind numbingly easy, but at the same time, you don't want to make content so difficult that it frustrates the majority of the game's playerbase.  Overall, I think WoW strikes a fine balance.

    Lastly, stacking tiers as you call it was done away with to help new players break into the raid scene.  In the original EverQuest, it was very difficult, if not impossible for a player who started in around 2003 to break into the raid scene which largely consisted of content that had been stacking on top of itself since Ruins of Kunark.  At least WoW reset the gear cycle every expansion, so it wasn't as bad, but it was still a major pain for new players who hit the level cap in the middle of the expansion cycle.  I'm sure you felt good being able to strut around Stormwind in your exclusive gear, but sometimes, you have to give a little up for the benefit of the game.  There are still ways in which you can set yourself apart even if everyone has purple gear now.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by SuperXero89
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperXero89
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    The major problem with this guy's video 2 minutes in is that he starts insinuating that the journey means the same thing to everyone as it does to him.  His examples rely almost entirely on achieving world firsts or being one of the view to complete a difficult raid encounter.  What about those of us who don't give two flips about  raid-based achievement?  What about those of us who just enjoyed leveling characters with buddies then running some casual raids on the side?  I've played WoW since launch, but I really got into it near the end of TBC, and I can say that I certainly enjoyed my journey.

    This guy comes off as a crybaby ex-WoW raider who is upset because he can't feel his e-penis getting hard every time he walks into Stormwind with his high item level purples.  Everyone has them now, so he no longer feels special.  Because his entire sense of enjoyment of the game is derived from its ability to make him feel superior, he no longer has any reason to enjoy WoW.

    If you "really" got into WoW at the end of TBC you would know the value of purples, and not be trivializing them now.

     

    I feel it is silly to have everyone now in "epic" purple gear.  Does this make everyone feel normal now?  Is everyone comfortable in the same gear?

     

    I'd get my ass kicked if I went into my ADnD group and demanded that we all have the same level, regardless of time spent campaigning.

    First of all, everyone doesn't have the same gear regardless of time spent.  It takes time to obtain enough badges for tiered armor, and even then, the badge gear isn't the highest level gear a raider can achieve.  The difference is that these days, gear is more about a number than a physical appearance.  Everyone looks the same because Blizzard is lazy and doesn't really provide players with a wide variety of endgame armor styles.  Beyond that, there's actually a fair amount of gear variety that makes it easy to distinguish players who have been raiding for a week from players who have been raiding for months as long as you have a gear score or item level add-on.  Raid bosses drop tokens to exchange for better gear among other loot that is often better than common badge gear.  This isn't even getting into heroic raid drops.  Heroic raiding is something people always forget about when mentioning WoW anyway.

    Regardless of all that, I don't really care about other people.  My sense of enjoyment is not derived from what other people have or do not have.  I know what I enjoy doing in WoW, and I do what I have to in order to get to that point.  I really don't need some sort of gold star to prove to everyone that I'm elite because I've been subscribed longer than the other guy.

    But do you get a feeling of acomplishment knowing that you bested the game in whatever your time frame is, a week, a couple weeks or even a month?  Is the tier grind sufficient, or would you rather tiers stack (like MC, BWL, NAXX).

     

    I prefer tiers to stack, that adds to my feeling of accomplishment.

    I don't care about your sense of accomplishment though. That's the problem.  You really shouldn't be using a video game to derive a sense of accomplishment.   I don't understand why so many people can't seem to enjoy a video game for any other reason aside from its ability to make them feel good about themselves.  It's sad really.

    Yes, I do feel accomplished when I complete a raid on the first try, but then again, I put things in perspective.  I realize it's not that big of a deal.  It's a video game.  No one in the real world cares that you finished Nax 25-man after 3 months of failed attempts.  Likewise, I do not enjoy beating my head against a brick wall for months trying to complete some content.  If that happens, I'm likely to find more productive ways to spend my time.  It's honestly a balancing act.  You want content that is not mind numbingly easy, but at the same time, you don't want to make content so difficult that it frustrates the majority of the game's playerbase.  Overall, I think WoW strikes a fine balance.

    Lastly, stacking tiers as you call it was done away with to help new players break into the raid scene.  In the original EverQuest, it was very difficult, if not impossible for a player who started in around 2003 to break into the raid scene which largely consisted of content that had been stacking on top of itself since Ruins of Kunark.  At least WoW reset the gear cycle every expansion, so it wasn't as bad, but it was still a major pain for new players who hit the level cap in the middle of the expansion cycle.  I'm sure you felt good being able to strut around Stormwind in your exclusive gear, but sometimes, you have to give a little up for the benefit of the game.  There are still ways in which you can set yourself apart even if everyone has purple gear now.

    Like I mentioned earlier, I was an average raider who topped off midway in BWL in my guild, without completing it during Vanilla.  I wouldn't call that exclusive raiding, but you might.

     

    I never said I like excessively difficult content, as inferred by your post.  I also never struted around Stormwind in my exclusive gear, unless you consider full MC as exclusive, a year into the game.  I liked the fact that my guild "could" complete content and get more, if we were capable of it (which we weren't), although obtaining the new content was in no way necessary or required.  It would just be for fun.  It was there if we wanted it.

     

    I get the feeling you are venting, not at anything I said, but just to everyone in general.  Hence all the misdirections and incorrect accusations.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • I think the guy is extremely wrong when he says it's OK that less than 1% goes in a certain dungeon. But I do agree with lots of other points he makes.
  • HurvartHurvart ystadPosts: 565Member
    Originally posted by SuperXero89
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperXero89
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    The major problem with this guy's video 2 minutes in is that he starts insinuating that the journey means the same thing to everyone as it does to him.  His examples rely almost entirely on achieving world firsts or being one of the view to complete a difficult raid encounter.  What about those of us who don't give two flips about  raid-based achievement?  What about those of us who just enjoyed leveling characters with buddies then running some casual raids on the side?  I've played WoW since launch, but I really got into it near the end of TBC, and I can say that I certainly enjoyed my journey.

    This guy comes off as a crybaby ex-WoW raider who is upset because he can't feel his e-penis getting hard every time he walks into Stormwind with his high item level purples.  Everyone has them now, so he no longer feels special.  Because his entire sense of enjoyment of the game is derived from its ability to make him feel superior, he no longer has any reason to enjoy WoW.

    If you "really" got into WoW at the end of TBC you would know the value of purples, and not be trivializing them now.

     

    I feel it is silly to have everyone now in "epic" purple gear.  Does this make everyone feel normal now?  Is everyone comfortable in the same gear?

     

    I'd get my ass kicked if I went into my ADnD group and demanded that we all have the same level, regardless of time spent campaigning.

    First of all, everyone doesn't have the same gear regardless of time spent.  It takes time to obtain enough badges for tiered armor, and even then, the badge gear isn't the highest level gear a raider can achieve.  The difference is that these days, gear is more about a number than a physical appearance.  Everyone looks the same because Blizzard is lazy and doesn't really provide players with a wide variety of endgame armor styles.  Beyond that, there's actually a fair amount of gear variety that makes it easy to distinguish players who have been raiding for a week from players who have been raiding for months as long as you have a gear score or item level add-on.  Raid bosses drop tokens to exchange for better gear among other loot that is often better than common badge gear.  This isn't even getting into heroic raid drops.  Heroic raiding is something people always forget about when mentioning WoW anyway.

    Regardless of all that, I don't really care about other people.  My sense of enjoyment is not derived from what other people have or do not have.  I know what I enjoy doing in WoW, and I do what I have to in order to get to that point.  I really don't need some sort of gold star to prove to everyone that I'm elite because I've been subscribed longer than the other guy.

    But do you get a feeling of acomplishment knowing that you bested the game in whatever your time frame is, a week, a couple weeks or even a month?  Is the tier grind sufficient, or would you rather tiers stack (like MC, BWL, NAXX).

     

    I prefer tiers to stack, that adds to my feeling of accomplishment.

    I don't care about your sense of accomplishment though. That's the problem.  You really shouldn't be using a video game to derive a sense of accomplishment.   I don't understand why so many people can't seem to enjoy a video game for any other reason aside from its ability to make them feel good about themselves.  It's sad really.

    Yes, I do feel accomplished when I complete a raid on the first try, but then again, I put things in perspective.  I realize it's not that big of a deal.  It's a video game.  No one in the real world cares that you finished Nax 25-man after 3 months of failed attempts.  Likewise, I do not enjoy beating my head against a brick wall for months trying to complete some content.  If that happens, I'm likely to find more productive ways to spend my time.  It's honestly a balancing act.  You want content that is not mind numbingly easy, but at the same time, you don't want to make content so difficult that it frustrates the majority of the game's playerbase.  Overall, I think WoW strikes a fine balance.

    Lastly, stacking tiers as you call it was done away with to help new players break into the raid scene.  In the original EverQuest, it was very difficult, if not impossible for a player who started in around 2003 to break into the raid scene which largely consisted of content that had been stacking on top of itself since Ruins of Kunark.  At least WoW reset the gear cycle every expansion, so it wasn't as bad, but it was still a major pain for new players who hit the level cap in the middle of the expansion cycle.  I'm sure you felt good being able to strut around Stormwind in your exclusive gear, but sometimes, you have to give a little up for the benefit of the game.  There are still ways in which you can set yourself apart even if everyone has purple gear now.

    Reseting the gear cycle ruins content.  There is no reason to do old raid content if the gear you get is useless. And if you can get sometning better from a simple solo quest. In EQ that worked much better. A new player in a new raiding guild had to start with raid content from the first expansion. And after farming that he and his guild could eventually start with the latest content. IMO, that means more content for the new player. All content is new the first time you do it. Even if it is old and not part of the latest expansion. How can less content that is rewarding to do make a game better?

    In EQ a guild that had to do kunark dragons when the top guilds could do planes of power raids was not very elit. But it was fair. They had to progress and get better gear and later they could do the latest content. There was still a reason to do the kunark dragons. The loot from them was still good for most players. The content was still meaningful to do.

    From that point of view reseting the gear cycle will create a dead virtual world. The new player will have less content.

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