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This video explains what is wrong with WoW today,

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Comments

  • GrrlGrrl B-Town, CAPosts: 364Member

    LOL, you guys bitch about everything!!! Nothing pleases you, right? Having the games stay  the way they are for life is not profittable and people will get bored with it fast. They do not make money that way. -_-

    At least this weeds out the losers from WoW. 

     

    For those who bitches about certain games that disappointed them; why don't you make your own?

     

     

    LIVE LONG WOW! <3 

  • HurvartHurvart ystadPosts: 565Member
    Originally posted by Luxely

    LOL, you guys bitch about everything!!! Nothing pleases you, right? Having the games stay  the way they are for life is not profittable and people will get bored with it fast. They do not make money that way. -_-

    At least this weeds out the losers from WoW. 

     

    For those who bitches about certain games that disappointed them; why don't you make your own?

     

     

    LIVE LONG WOW! <3 

    There should be new content and some new ideas. But I think the basic design principles should stay the same. Making a game more streamlined and to add convinience-mechanics is bad for a game. It makes the virtual world less interesting to explore.

    WoW is no longer the same game. Some that liked it when it was released are not happy anymore. I think the video explains why. Someone that is a explorer and not a raider could explain it in a different way. But it is the same basic problem for everyone that liked the original game.

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member
    Originally posted by Luxely

    LOL, you guys bitch about everything!!! Nothing pleases you, right? Having the games stay  the way they are for life is not profittable and people will get bored with it fast. They do not make money that way. -_-

    At least this weeds out the losers from WoW. 

     

    For those who bitches about certain games that disappointed them; why don't you make your own?

     

     

    LIVE LONG WOW! <3 

    Saying WoW sucks is bitching.

    Having facts and figures that show, as the raids have become easier the growth in WoW has slowed then declined. That is an assesment.

     

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon

    Naxxramus only being played by 1% of the population was a big problem.

     

    I miss the 40 man raids but not the nightly schedules to see the content.

     

    The problem is that the original WOW formula only works for a small percentage of the population and yet so much development time was dedicated to it.  I think WOW would be pretty fun if they let you play on progression servers where you chose when to update to a patch with the next raiding tier.  They could probably make a lot of money if they did it right. 

     

  • syntax42syntax42 Columbus, OHPosts: 1,305Member Uncommon

    I listened to the first two minutes.  Your argument defeats itself.  You said you want new players to experience the journey (1:52), but at the same time less than 1% of players (1:34) do get to experience it.  How does that even make sense?  Wake up.  You are the 1% who got to experience the content when it was end-game and you want Blizzard to cater to you instead of the average person.  Deal with it or play a different game.

     

    I stopped playing WoW in vanilla when I realized I would not get to experience end-game content.  I simply didn't have time for the hours of raiding per day that it required to experience all that the game had to offer in the time before the next expansion.  I felt left-out and I didn't enjoy being "stuck" at a certain point in the game while my friends passed me by.  It sounds like Blizzard has finally changed their catering from the elitist crowd to the casual player and that makes me seriously consider breaking my oath to never play WoW again.

     

    There is a big difference between making a game accessible and handing it to people on a platter.  Elitists seem to blur that distinction by claiming any accessibility is handing the game to players.  Elitists need to get over themselves and enjoy the game for what it is.  From what I can tell, Blizzard is finally making the game accessible to everyone instead of just the 1%.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    From day one this game was designed for the casual audience. It's had to adapt to keep up with the standards of the times, but no one seeking a real challenge ever played WoW, so why get upset if its easier?
  • SilokSilok Mascouche, QCPosts: 732Member
    I agree completly with this video. There is nothing more to say, it is so sad.
  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by syntax42

    I listened to the first two minutes.  Your argument defeats itself.  You said you want new players to experience the journey (1:52), but at the same time less than 1% of players (1:34) do get to experience it.  How does that even make sense?  Wake up.  You are the 1% who got to experience the content when it was end-game and you want Blizzard to cater to you instead of the average person.  Deal with it or play a different game.

     

    I stopped playing WoW in vanilla when I realized I would not get to experience end-game content.  I simply didn't have time for the hours of raiding per day that it required to experience all that the game had to offer in the time before the next expansion.  I felt left-out and I didn't enjoy being "stuck" at a certain point in the game while my friends passed me by.  It sounds like Blizzard has finally changed their catering from the elitist crowd to the casual player and that makes me seriously consider breaking my oath to never play WoW again.

     

    There is a big difference between making a game accessible and handing it to people on a platter.  Elitists seem to blur that distinction by claiming any accessibility is handing the game to players.  Elitists need to get over themselves and enjoy the game for what it is.  From what I can tell, Blizzard is finally making the game accessible to everyone instead of just the 1%.

    Good video, thanks for posting.

    Yes early WoW had a challenge that can not be matched with current WoW.  Nowadays every WoW player has Epics, like they were trash items, and they don't appreciate what obtaining Epics actually meant in early WoW.

     

    Vanilla WoW involved an intense community experience with 40-man raids.  Yes people who were not capable of being in a guild are jaded, but those that were in a guild found an amazing game.  If you were not capable of being in a guild, then try more .. expand your social skills, expand your understanding that other people are different from yourself.  Or accept that you could possibly get better.

    The majority of people who hate early WoW were either anti-social, or failed to be guild worthy.  FACE IT.  Now you are older, look back.

    TBC didn't just get 11+ subscribers on a whim, it was a grand expansion.  Now when Blizzard killed raids down to 10-man and licked tongues with Activision, along with sub-standard quality, this is when WoW started to fall.

    It's no wonder why so many people want to play a Vanilla WoW emulator.  The game was good then.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by syntax42

    I listened to the first two minutes.  Your argument defeats itself.  You said you want new players to experience the journey (1:52), but at the same time less than 1% of players (1:34) do get to experience it.  How does that even make sense?  Wake up.  You are the 1% who got to experience the content when it was end-game and you want Blizzard to cater to you instead of the average person.  Deal with it or play a different game.

     

    I stopped playing WoW in vanilla when I realized I would not get to experience end-game content.  I simply didn't have time for the hours of raiding per day that it required to experience all that the game had to offer in the time before the next expansion.  I felt left-out and I didn't enjoy being "stuck" at a certain point in the game while my friends passed me by.  It sounds like Blizzard has finally changed their catering from the elitist crowd to the casual player and that makes me seriously consider breaking my oath to never play WoW again.

     

    There is a big difference between making a game accessible and handing it to people on a platter.  Elitists seem to blur that distinction by claiming any accessibility is handing the game to players.  Elitists need to get over themselves and enjoy the game for what it is.  From what I can tell, Blizzard is finally making the game accessible to everyone instead of just the 1%.

    Good video, thanks for posting.

    Yes early WoW had a challenge that can not be matched with current WoW.  Nowadays every WoW player has Epics, like they were trash items, and they don't appreciate what obtaining Epics actually meants in early WoW.

     

    WoW involved an intense community experience with 40-man raids.  Yes people who were not capable of being in a guild are jaded, but those that were in a guild found an amazing game.  If you were not capable of being in a guild, then try more .. expand your social skills, expand your understanding that other people are different from yourself.  Or accept that you could possibly get better.

    The majority of people who hate early WoW were either anti-social, or failed to be guild worthy.  FACE IT.  Now you are older, look back.

    TBC didn't just get 11+ subscribers on a whim, it was a grand expansion.  Now when Blizzard killed raids down to 10-man and licked tongues with Activision, along with sub-standard quality, this is when WoW started to fall.

    It's no wonder why so many people want to play a Vanilla WoW emulator.  The game was good then.

    The guild based 40 man raids gave rise to a very elitist exclusionary type of end game. I personally think it's awful game design,e specially when DAoC managed to do massive raids with 100+ people and it awas just about entirely skill based, not gear based, so anyone could come along if they wanted. And those raids were a LOT harder than WoW raids.

  • GinazGinaz Calgary, ABPosts: 1,731Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by Luxely

    LOL, you guys bitch about everything!!! Nothing pleases you, right? Having the games stay  the way they are for life is not profittable and people will get bored with it fast. They do not make money that way. -_-

    At least this weeds out the losers from WoW. 

     

    For those who bitches about certain games that disappointed them; why don't you make your own?

     

     

    LIVE LONG WOW! <3 

    Saying WoW sucks is bitching.

    Having facts and figures that show, as the raids have become easier the growth in WoW has slowed then declined. That is an assesment.

     

    Facts?  The fact is the WoW reached its peak with player numbers during WOTLK, which many of you so called "old school harcore" types dimissed as too easy.  Blizzard ramped up the difficulty when Cata launched and guess what happened?  They lost a lot of players because of it.  They eased up on the difficulty and it slowed the bleeding quite a bit.  MoP is a return to WOTLK type of difficulty. 

    image

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by syntax42

    I listened to the first two minutes.  Your argument defeats itself.  You said you want new players to experience the journey (1:52), but at the same time less than 1% of players (1:34) do get to experience it.  How does that even make sense?  Wake up.  You are the 1% who got to experience the content when it was end-game and you want Blizzard to cater to you instead of the average person.  Deal with it or play a different game.

     

    I stopped playing WoW in vanilla when I realized I would not get to experience end-game content.  I simply didn't have time for the hours of raiding per day that it required to experience all that the game had to offer in the time before the next expansion.  I felt left-out and I didn't enjoy being "stuck" at a certain point in the game while my friends passed me by.  It sounds like Blizzard has finally changed their catering from the elitist crowd to the casual player and that makes me seriously consider breaking my oath to never play WoW again.

     

    There is a big difference between making a game accessible and handing it to people on a platter.  Elitists seem to blur that distinction by claiming any accessibility is handing the game to players.  Elitists need to get over themselves and enjoy the game for what it is.  From what I can tell, Blizzard is finally making the game accessible to everyone instead of just the 1%.

    Good video, thanks for posting.

    Yes early WoW had a challenge that can not be matched with current WoW.  Nowadays every WoW player has Epics, like they were trash items, and they don't appreciate what obtaining Epics actually meants in early WoW.

     

    WoW involved an intense community experience with 40-man raids.  Yes people who were not capable of being in a guild are jaded, but those that were in a guild found an amazing game.  If you were not capable of being in a guild, then try more .. expand your social skills, expand your understanding that other people are different from yourself.  Or accept that you could possibly get better.

    The majority of people who hate early WoW were either anti-social, or failed to be guild worthy.  FACE IT.  Now you are older, look back.

    TBC didn't just get 11+ subscribers on a whim, it was a grand expansion.  Now when Blizzard killed raids down to 10-man and licked tongues with Activision, along with sub-standard quality, this is when WoW started to fall.

    It's no wonder why so many people want to play a Vanilla WoW emulator.  The game was good then.

    The guild based 40 man raids gave rise to a very elitist exclusionary type of end game. I personally think it's awful game design,e specially when DAoC managed to do massive raids with 100+ people and it awas just about entirely skill based, not gear based, so anyone could come along if they wanted. And those raids were a LOT harder than WoW raids.

    Having elitist is necessary, and it gives room for other players to strive toward them.  I loved the 40 man raids.  It was pure entertainment.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • syntax42syntax42 Columbus, OHPosts: 1,305Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli
    The game was good then.

    That is a matter of opinion.  I understand that you, like many others, enjoyed the original version of WoW for the social experience it offered.  I also enjoyed the social experience of being in a guild.  However, the guilds that I joined were just as casual as I was and were not able to put together the people required to complete raids.  We attempted Molten Core a couple times, but the repeated failures drove the guild apart because many felt the loss of time with no reward was not worth it.  After that, my guild could not even muster the numbers required to attempt Molten Core.  I tried joining other guilds, but they wouldn't recruit people who still needed gear from MC at that point because they had moved on to the next raid.  

     

    What you really enjoyed was the sense of accomplisment from doing something that most people didn't get to experience.  Apparently, MoP is changing that and you don't like it.  

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,923Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    The guild based 40 man raids gave rise to a very elitist exclusionary type of end game. I personally think it's awful game design,e specially when DAoC managed to do massive raids with 100+ people and it awas just about entirely skill based, not gear based, so anyone could come along if they wanted. And those raids were a LOT harder than WoW raids.

    Um... were you playing the same DAoC as me? 

     

    Seriously though, elitism didn't arrise from players being 'good' it evolved as the skill of players declined massively. Easier content promotes a much less skill based playstyle. The point of the video is highlighting the fact as more and more bad players filled the ranks and its not just them being bad, its the fact they did NOTHING to try and improve themselves. They just had no desire to get better and thats where the current problem exists. 

     

    Your 'elitist' argument is quite silly. In WoW wotlk, you SAW just who was good as the players became less. The 10 man version of OS3D (release, not joke mode outgear patch) was HARDER then the 20 man version. Why? It involved far less room from error with one person. Having more players allows for more room for error compared to less. 1 Bad player in a 100 man means that only 1% of the players are no good. 20 man it means that 5% of the group is bad and needs to be made up for. 10 Man it means that player accounts for 10% of the group that needs to be pulled. With less numbers in particular, this shrinks the ability for players to perform poorly on their role making it much more obvious that they flunked. This is where I believe elitism started to take part and with the dumbing down of content and promotion of not needing effort to get better, it only helped to make elitism that much worst.

  • GinazGinaz Calgary, ABPosts: 1,731Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by syntax42

    I listened to the first two minutes.  Your argument defeats itself.  You said you want new players to experience the journey (1:52), but at the same time less than 1% of players (1:34) do get to experience it.  How does that even make sense?  Wake up.  You are the 1% who got to experience the content when it was end-game and you want Blizzard to cater to you instead of the average person.  Deal with it or play a different game.

     

    I stopped playing WoW in vanilla when I realized I would not get to experience end-game content.  I simply didn't have time for the hours of raiding per day that it required to experience all that the game had to offer in the time before the next expansion.  I felt left-out and I didn't enjoy being "stuck" at a certain point in the game while my friends passed me by.  It sounds like Blizzard has finally changed their catering from the elitist crowd to the casual player and that makes me seriously consider breaking my oath to never play WoW again.

     

    There is a big difference between making a game accessible and handing it to people on a platter.  Elitists seem to blur that distinction by claiming any accessibility is handing the game to players.  Elitists need to get over themselves and enjoy the game for what it is.  From what I can tell, Blizzard is finally making the game accessible to everyone instead of just the 1%.

    Good video, thanks for posting.

    Yes early WoW had a challenge that can not be matched with current WoW.  Nowadays every WoW player has Epics, like they were trash items, and they don't appreciate what obtaining Epics actually meants in early WoW.

     

    WoW involved an intense community experience with 40-man raids.  Yes people who were not capable of being in a guild are jaded, but those that were in a guild found an amazing game.  If you were not capable of being in a guild, then try more .. expand your social skills, expand your understanding that other people are different from yourself.  Or accept that you could possibly get better.

    The majority of people who hate early WoW were either anti-social, or failed to be guild worthy.  FACE IT.  Now you are older, look back.

    TBC didn't just get 11+ subscribers on a whim, it was a grand expansion.  Now when Blizzard killed raids down to 10-man and licked tongues with Activision, along with sub-standard quality, this is when WoW started to fall.

    It's no wonder why so many people want to play a Vanilla WoW emulator.  The game was good then.

    The guild based 40 man raids gave rise to a very elitist exclusionary type of end game. I personally think it's awful game design,e specially when DAoC managed to do massive raids with 100+ people and it awas just about entirely skill based, not gear based, so anyone could come along if they wanted. And those raids were a LOT harder than WoW raids.

    Having elitist is necessary, and it gives room for other players to strive toward them.  I loved the 40 man raids.  It was pure entertainment.

    Having less than 5% of your players seeing the end game content is generally not something developers want.  I know some people measure their self worth at being better than others at internet wizards and warriors, but those people can go and you know what themselves.

    image

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • SilokSilok Mascouche, QCPosts: 732Member
    Originally posted by Ginaz
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by syntax42

    I listened to the first two minutes.  Your argument defeats itself.  You said you want new players to experience the journey (1:52), but at the same time less than 1% of players (1:34) do get to experience it.  How does that even make sense?  Wake up.  You are the 1% who got to experience the content when it was end-game and you want Blizzard to cater to you instead of the average person.  Deal with it or play a different game.

     

    I stopped playing WoW in vanilla when I realized I would not get to experience end-game content.  I simply didn't have time for the hours of raiding per day that it required to experience all that the game had to offer in the time before the next expansion.  I felt left-out and I didn't enjoy being "stuck" at a certain point in the game while my friends passed me by.  It sounds like Blizzard has finally changed their catering from the elitist crowd to the casual player and that makes me seriously consider breaking my oath to never play WoW again.

     

    There is a big difference between making a game accessible and handing it to people on a platter.  Elitists seem to blur that distinction by claiming any accessibility is handing the game to players.  Elitists need to get over themselves and enjoy the game for what it is.  From what I can tell, Blizzard is finally making the game accessible to everyone instead of just the 1%.

    Good video, thanks for posting.

    Yes early WoW had a challenge that can not be matched with current WoW.  Nowadays every WoW player has Epics, like they were trash items, and they don't appreciate what obtaining Epics actually meants in early WoW.

     

    WoW involved an intense community experience with 40-man raids.  Yes people who were not capable of being in a guild are jaded, but those that were in a guild found an amazing game.  If you were not capable of being in a guild, then try more .. expand your social skills, expand your understanding that other people are different from yourself.  Or accept that you could possibly get better.

    The majority of people who hate early WoW were either anti-social, or failed to be guild worthy.  FACE IT.  Now you are older, look back.

    TBC didn't just get 11+ subscribers on a whim, it was a grand expansion.  Now when Blizzard killed raids down to 10-man and licked tongues with Activision, along with sub-standard quality, this is when WoW started to fall.

    It's no wonder why so many people want to play a Vanilla WoW emulator.  The game was good then.

    The guild based 40 man raids gave rise to a very elitist exclusionary type of end game. I personally think it's awful game design,e specially when DAoC managed to do massive raids with 100+ people and it awas just about entirely skill based, not gear based, so anyone could come along if they wanted. And those raids were a LOT harder than WoW raids.

    Having elitist is necessary, and it gives room for other players to strive toward them.  I loved the 40 man raids.  It was pure entertainment.

    Having less than 5% of your players seeing the end game content is generally not something developers want.  I know some people measure their self worth at being better than others at internet wizards and warriors, but those people can go and f*** themselves.

    huh why the hate there? In any case you just dont get it. Even if you dont see the engame, you will not run out off content. These days even casual player run out off content, cause this i too easy. So why are you so mad about elitist? For me i think because deep down you know you cant do what they do, so you are so mad then it is better to just bash them..

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by Ginaz
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by syntax42

    I listened to the first two minutes.  Your argument defeats itself.  You said you want new players to experience the journey (1:52), but at the same time less than 1% of players (1:34) do get to experience it.  How does that even make sense?  Wake up.  You are the 1% who got to experience the content when it was end-game and you want Blizzard to cater to you instead of the average person.  Deal with it or play a different game.

     

    I stopped playing WoW in vanilla when I realized I would not get to experience end-game content.  I simply didn't have time for the hours of raiding per day that it required to experience all that the game had to offer in the time before the next expansion.  I felt left-out and I didn't enjoy being "stuck" at a certain point in the game while my friends passed me by.  It sounds like Blizzard has finally changed their catering from the elitist crowd to the casual player and that makes me seriously consider breaking my oath to never play WoW again.

     

    There is a big difference between making a game accessible and handing it to people on a platter.  Elitists seem to blur that distinction by claiming any accessibility is handing the game to players.  Elitists need to get over themselves and enjoy the game for what it is.  From what I can tell, Blizzard is finally making the game accessible to everyone instead of just the 1%.

    Good video, thanks for posting.

    Yes early WoW had a challenge that can not be matched with current WoW.  Nowadays every WoW player has Epics, like they were trash items, and they don't appreciate what obtaining Epics actually meants in early WoW.

     

    WoW involved an intense community experience with 40-man raids.  Yes people who were not capable of being in a guild are jaded, but those that were in a guild found an amazing game.  If you were not capable of being in a guild, then try more .. expand your social skills, expand your understanding that other people are different from yourself.  Or accept that you could possibly get better.

    The majority of people who hate early WoW were either anti-social, or failed to be guild worthy.  FACE IT.  Now you are older, look back.

    TBC didn't just get 11+ subscribers on a whim, it was a grand expansion.  Now when Blizzard killed raids down to 10-man and licked tongues with Activision, along with sub-standard quality, this is when WoW started to fall.

    It's no wonder why so many people want to play a Vanilla WoW emulator.  The game was good then.

    The guild based 40 man raids gave rise to a very elitist exclusionary type of end game. I personally think it's awful game design,e specially when DAoC managed to do massive raids with 100+ people and it awas just about entirely skill based, not gear based, so anyone could come along if they wanted. And those raids were a LOT harder than WoW raids.

    Having elitist is necessary, and it gives room for other players to strive toward them.  I loved the 40 man raids.  It was pure entertainment.

    Having less than 5% of your players seeing the end game content is generally not something developers want.  I know some people measure their self worth at being better than others at internet wizards and warriors, but those people can go and f*** themselves.

    But it gives players something to srive toward.. A goal.

     

    You can say all you want that everyone should have equal access to all content, but there is no longevity in a game like this.  Why bother to keep logging on if you can have end game a day or 2 after creating a character?

     

    Reaching the impossible is what keeps players coming back, something that moden MMO's have completely lost.  Everything is casual friendly now.

     

    This means more money initially, but far less in the long run.  Who will keep paying for a game that they "beat".

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,923Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ginaz

    Having less than 5% of your players seeing the end game content is generally not something developers want.  I know some people measure their self worth at being better than others at internet wizards and warriors, but those people can go and f*** themselves.

    But do you realize how much more motivated people were to progress in the old days then today? Heck, a lot of people played the game in the past, even with 1% experiencing it MORE played back then and the 'increase' was far less as time went on. Its that motivation, that carrot on a stick that got people interested. Even without getting to the end, it gave something to do. Now, people just expect to raid and it cheapens the experience into some thrill thats expected of them as other features are neglected in the game.

    I KNOW I'm one of the 'elitists' of sorts, I prize myself on being good at the game and excelling and beating people, and heck, I can be a jerk (haha get it? ) about it when it comes to people who do terrible... and I mean god aweful... or just repeat the same mistakes over and over and over and over again making the group bash their heads in the wall for the sake they can't fix something that is so trivial to fix. You know what I enjoy most? Its not being the best (though its fun) its the competition. Nothing makes dps fun (which is where I'm elitist at, can't care less any other place) unless its competing to be on the top which makes it etertaining.  That competition and strive is what makes people get better and really enhances the fun of playing while also working to reach a goal that will feel SO gratifying to hit.

    The best part is players WILL see that content. As expansions are released, it opens the door for that old content once barred to be experienced and they can see just what they missed. Are you the type that really thinks you would get the same sense of joy having a rubix cube already solved with you just having 1 twist to win as you would solving a rubix cube from the start completely on your own? 

     

    Oh and as a FYI, I played Vanilla and BC, and I NEVER hit the Black Temple (Before changes/nerfs) and I was greatly enjoying raiding every week and working my way up.

  • syntax42syntax42 Columbus, OHPosts: 1,305Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli

    But it gives players something to srive toward.. A goal.

     

    You can say all you want that everyone should have equal access to all content, but there is no longevity in a game like this.  Why bother to keep logging on if you can have end game a day or 2 after creating a character?

     

    Reaching the impossible is what keeps players coming back, something that moden MMO's have completely lost.  Everything is casual friendly now.

     

    This means more money initially, but far less in the long run.

    Only the insane have goals they know they can never achieve.  WoW was setting the bar far beyond what average players could strive for.  It is like you looking up at the stars and setting a goal to fly to another planet.  Maybe you are a NASA pilot and have that chance, but I'm betting your job isn't going to get you in space.

     

    "Why bother to keep logging on if you can have end game a day or 2 after creating a character?"

    Now you're just pushing your elitist attitude.  This must be an exaggeration or the average person would have quit playing long ago.  Maybe the 1% crowd has done this after playing the beta extensively.  The game isn't catering to the 1% anymore.  Provide a link for a fact like this or it is simply an exaggeration.

  • JetrpgJetrpg Whitehouse, OHPosts: 2,376Member
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

    I agree with the video. By todays standard what he is talking about is called a grind and considered bad; You had to work to see content because it was hard. But it also made downing bosses an achievement. 

    (And now days when blizzard does add content that is more difficult, like the heroic troll dungeons. Players just complain and then no one wants to tank)

    I don't think this is a grind. a Grind would be doing dailies until you had equipment. Having to actually run content to get equiped seems different.

    One thing that was nice about sunweel but at the same time crappy was is easy access high equip from dailies.

    "Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  • syntax42syntax42 Columbus, OHPosts: 1,305Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    The best part is players WILL see that content. As expansions are released, it opens the door for that old content once barred to be experienced and they can see just what they missed. 

    But there is no point in "seeing it" once the content has become irrelevant through the release of an expansion.  It would be like you going back to a starter zone after completing yours just to "see it."  Once you progress past the content, it becomes meaningless.

  • JetrpgJetrpg Whitehouse, OHPosts: 2,376Member
    Originally posted by Lissyl

    No.

    You know what happened to that teary-eyed trip down nostalgia lane?  The raiders happened.

    When, in TBC, they decided it was better to poach other guilds instead of taking newer players, it happened.  When they decided that it was no longer their place to teach new people how to raid, it happened.  When they decided that they were too good to have to regear new recruits, it happened.  They did it to themselves.  And what -happened- was that a chain of guilds started forming and people would move from one to another to another straight on up until they saw the content...then many of them would go on their way.  After all, you recruit a bunch of guild-hoppers, why would you be surprised when they guild-hop?  This led to only an incredibly tiny number of people seeing anything and led to extreme frustration on the part of everyone else who -also- wanted that magical journey but couldn't get it because of the guys at the top stealing their talent out of laziness.  They left the room for the 'we deserve to see it too' argument, and -now- they're all misty-eyed about it, complaining to all and sundry about how the games are trash nowadays, all the while refusing to accept the responsibility for causing it in the first place.

    No, what was trash was the entitlement attitude that the top raiders had when they tore apart the guilding system.  You reap what you sow.

    I had friends in a guild they were down a player and in in ssc and BT when i filled in.. i beat their well equiped dps with a toon with some blue and green equipment and tied others. I rocked it, and i had  not raided for some time. So while i hear you, i lived it and later i did it agian. The truth was guilds wanted good players, if your a bad player top end guilds down want you and rightfully so. New and inexperinced players need to gain experince in poor guilds first, to develop.

    Just like anything else ... surrounding group play.

    "Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by syntax42
    Originally posted by Karteli

    But it gives players something to srive toward.. A goal.

     

    You can say all you want that everyone should have equal access to all content, but there is no longevity in a game like this.  Why bother to keep logging on if you can have end game a day or 2 after creating a character?

     

    Reaching the impossible is what keeps players coming back, something that moden MMO's have completely lost.  Everything is casual friendly now.

     

    This means more money initially, but far less in the long run.

    Only the insane have goals they know they can never achieve.  WoW was setting the bar far beyond what average players could strive for.  It is like you looking up at the stars and setting a goal to fly to another planet.  Maybe you are a NASA pilot and have that chance, but I'm betting your job isn't going to get you in space.

     

    "Why bother to keep logging on if you can have end game a day or 2 after creating a character?"

    Now you're just pushing your elitist attitude.  This must be an exaggeration or the average person would have quit playing long ago.  Maybe the 1% crowd has done this after playing the beta extensively.  The game isn't catering to the 1% anymore.  Provide a link for a fact like this or it is simply an exaggeration.

    Do you see the influx of MMO's coming out that have no longevity?  Do you see how subscribers are not sticking?  I don't want to call you blind, but the idea does come to mind.

     

    An attitude is simply an exertion of ones self.  Simply, to my statements, there is no MMO released since WoW Vanilla / TBC that has longevity, because new MMO's are stupidly simple.  This is not what gamers want .  WoW holds a special pass because players have commitment to their characters.  New MMO's just fail because they keep trying to give players every angle of the game as soon as they load it. /fail

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • eddieg50eddieg50 Tolland, CTPosts: 1,613Member Uncommon
    Yea i wish i could just download Vanilla and bc and just stop there--no other expansions or patches
  • onlinenow25onlinenow25 San Diego, CAPosts: 275Member

    You guys really enjoy the mindless grinding of materials and items just to progress to another raid?

    You enjoy waiting every week to do a raid because its on cooldown?

    Hell in BC I couldn't gear up to tank simply because w/ever that tanking sword was in the heroic with the bloodelf/robot boss never dropped for me.

    I litterally remember running the instance a month straight everyday and never getting the sword to even drop.

    No guild would take me with out that sword.

    Is that what you guys consider fun?  I mean I did that instance so many times people were amazed that I could hold agro so well with my PoS tanking axe from a quest.

    I could never get past the feeling that the game was a job.  I remember playing WoW one afternoon thinking how cool it would be to clone my self and have one me go to work and the other me play WoW.  I sat there and realised I would rather go to work than play WoW because of how much of a job it felt like.  And then proceeded to cancel my subscription and never went back.

    Maybe for some of you this grinding was fun but not for me.  Doing the samething months on end to see no progression or no reward is not fun.  Also relying on 39 other people just sounds terrible to me.  It was hard enough to rely on the foot runners at my job to run food properly I couldnt imagine working with 39 other people on the internet to do a raid.

    I don't find waiting for a day to do something enjoyable.  I don't think real life timers should enter a video game setting.  Its the defining thing that turns a game into a job for me.

    There is a difference between working for something and doing a mindless grind for little reward.  

     

     

  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,002Member Uncommon

    I saw this video awhile back, and i disagree with it.  There is no reason that only a minority percentage of people should experience content.  Players should be able to experience 100% of the content that is offered to them.  When you only have around 1% of raiders doing Naxx, something is wrong with the design.

    The argument he makes, that it should be earned, doesn't hold up either, because currently you can earn the achievements in the game proving that you did finish the content.  The only difference is, that in the past, it required more time; not more skill, or more strategy.  The top guilds would always release videos and strategy guides anyway, and the rest would copy.

    Is the current system perfect? No, but it's a lot better by giving everyone access to the content.  The Dungeon Finder & Raid Finder helped greatly with this.

    The real question is; At what pace should players experience 5 man dungeon & raid content?

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