Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Is this what SWTOR should have been when it comes to space and planets?

«1

Comments

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member

    Sweet, I saw that video when it was posted on the swtor forums last year or so.  I forgot the name of the project engine.

     

    Thanks .. amazing video!

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • bingbongbrosbingbongbros Vista, CAPosts: 650Member Uncommon

    Yes and YES! If Bioware had been able to make this space travel then the game would of destroyed the shit out of everyone.

     

    But it would be literally impossible for them to know how to even do this with their craptastic engine.

    Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
    Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
    Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by bingbongbros

    Yes and YES! If Bioware had been able to make this space travel then the game would of destroyed the shit out of everyone.

     

    But it would be literally impossible for them to know how to even do this with their craptastic engine.

    They would need to use multiple engines in a single game.  EverQuest 1 did that back in the day - zoning to areas in the new expansion The Ruins of Kunark (April 2000) would load an entirely new graphics engine.  The new engine allowed capabilities like swaying trees, which is funny to look back on, because the trees would just go through different still images as they swayed lol - but they looked nice from a distance.  Older zones would revert back to the original engine.

     

    Using multiple engines is possible.  Given that SWTOR seems to want to reload the entire game everytime you change zones, I guess it wouldn't make much of a difference.

    ref:

    Amazon sales info for Ruins of Kunark:

    http://www.amazon.com/EverQuest-The-Ruins-Kunark-Pc/dp/B00004NS01

    Graphically EverQuest has always been the leader of the MMORPGs, though Asheron's Call did have superior environmental graphics until RoK was released. With the release of RoK, EverQuest now uses two seperate graphics engines. The "Old World," which consists of the lands contained in the original game, still use the original graphics engine, which is now 3-4 years old, because the publisher, Verant Interactive, couldn't legally change the system requirements once the game was released. However, the "New World," which consists of the lands added in the expansion, use a brand new graphics engine. The result is that the quality of graphics varies within the game. The Old World is kind of mediocre by today's standards while the New World looks very, very nice.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • SneakyRussianSneakyRussian ?????, SCPosts: 54Member
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by bingbongbros

    Yes and YES! If Bioware had been able to make this space travel then the game would of destroyed the shit out of everyone.

     

    But it would be literally impossible for them to know how to even do this with their craptastic engine.

    They would need to use multiple engines in a single game.  EverQuest 1 did that back in the day - zoning to areas in a new expansion would actually load an entirely different "enhanced" engine. I think it was The Ruins of Kunark (April 2000), but I could be wrong with the exact expansion.  The new engine allowed capabilities like swaying trees, which is funny to look back on, because the trees would just go through different still images as they swayed lol - but they looked nice from a distance.

     

    Using multiple engines is possible.  Given that SWTOR seems to want to reload the entire game everytime you change zones, I guess it wouldn't make much of a difference.

    Let's make a key note here, it would have been possible using mulitple engines BECAUSE they used HERO engine for their craptastic sRPG part. However, it wouldn't be feasible as the logistics are insane to combine two engines like that.

     

    Infinity: The Quest for Earth (which is what that video is, a tech demo from april of 2010) has the right idea in terms of what an MMORPG should be. SWTOR was going back in time to 2005 with the StarWars IP, only not awesome like SWG :|.

  • CujoSWAoACujoSWAoA Nooo, AKPosts: 1,781Member

    That tech demo has floated around quite heavily for awhile now.

    Even with that in SW:TOR the game would still have a terrible ground game and a linear storyline that runs your head-first into a dead-end wall.

    That tech demo, is what SWG 2 needed.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by SneakyRussian
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by bingbongbros

    Yes and YES! If Bioware had been able to make this space travel then the game would of destroyed the shit out of everyone.

     

    But it would be literally impossible for them to know how to even do this with their craptastic engine.

    They would need to use multiple engines in a single game.  EverQuest 1 did that back in the day - zoning to areas in a new expansion would actually load an entirely different "enhanced" engine. I think it was The Ruins of Kunark (April 2000), but I could be wrong with the exact expansion.  The new engine allowed capabilities like swaying trees, which is funny to look back on, because the trees would just go through different still images as they swayed lol - but they looked nice from a distance.

     

    Using multiple engines is possible.  Given that SWTOR seems to want to reload the entire game everytime you change zones, I guess it wouldn't make much of a difference.

    Let's make a key note here, it would have been possible using mulitple engines BECAUSE they used HERO engine for their craptastic sRPG part. However, it wouldn't be feasible as the logistics are insane to combine two engines like that.

     

    Infinity: The Quest for Earth (which is what that video is, a tech demo from april of 2010) has the right idea in terms of what an MMORPG should be. SWTOR was going back in time to 2005 with the StarWars IP, only not awesome like SWG :|.

    I added some source info.  It might be a very innovative concept, but this is Star Wars.  Make it happen.  Star Wars was founded on innovation in a believable universe.

     

    Actually if the new engine were better than the alpha Hero Engine that EA bought, then that would still bring life back to SWTOR.  EA would license the Infinity engine, and during execution, unload Hero and reload Infinity, while passing key arrays of variables (character info).

     

    Infinity wants business, EA wants business.  Win / Win ?

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member
    Infinity uses a procedurally generated game world. And that's a bit tricky when it comes to placing objects and tying them with quests, etc in a MMORPG. SWTOR should have been a different game to make full use of this technology.
  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by Galadourn
    Infinity uses a procedurally generated game world. And that's a bit tricky when it comes to placing objects and tying them with quests, etc in a MMORPG. SWTOR should have been a different game to make full use of this technology.

    I would imagine that Infinity would love if their engine hit mainstream though, so perhaps they would be willing to assist with the tricky parts.  There can't possibly be a huge market for a space flight sim without any functionality, so Infinity is likely interested in selling their invention, licensing it, and modifying it so it has a high market value.

     

    Unless they just want to sell it to governments to assist with some kind of flight training, in which case we should all be sad.

     

    btw, I'm not familiar with a procedurally generated game world.  What does this mean? thanks in advance.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • defector1968defector1968 Nar ShaddaaPosts: 393Member Common
    Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

    That tech demo has floated around quite heavily for awhile now.

    Even with that in SW:TOR the game would still have a terrible ground game and a linear storyline that runs your head-first into a dead-end wall.

    That tech demo, is what SWG 2 needed.

    yes, agreed

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,284Member Uncommon
    such a shame that they tacked on that star fox side game.
  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by Galadourn
    Infinity uses a procedurally generated game world. And that's a bit tricky when it comes to placing objects and tying them with quests, etc in a MMORPG. SWTOR should have been a different game to make full use of this technology.

    I would imagine that Infinity would love if their engine hit mainstream though, so perhaps they would be willing to assist with the tricky parts.  There can't possibly be a huge market for a space flight sim without any functionality, so Infinity is likely interested in selling their invention, licensing it, and modifying it so it has a high market value.

     

    Unless they just want to sell it to governments to assist with some kind of flight training, in which case we should all be sad.

     

    btw, I'm not familiar with a procedurally generated game world.  What does this mean? thanks in advance.

    Well, Infinity hasn't invented the wheel when it comes to procedurally generated landscape. These programs have been around for some time now. They offer immense data compression capabilities, however (and I'm no programmer), I would imagine that that's all that they can do - generate terrain with a given set of physics rules applicable to the entire 'map'.

    Now in a MMORPG you have objects that behave differently - quest objects, NPCs etc - and I don't know how feasible it would be to have these on top of a procedurally generated landscape. Something tells me it's not easy to do - if at all doable.

  • sfc1971sfc1971 UtrechtPosts: 421Member

    Sorry, NO.

    The engine looks like a pretty pony but a one trick pony. 

    To lazy to look up the name but the company behind the engine that powers Dayz made a "real" world in which you could land almost realistic aircraft on real runways. It also allowed ground combat. This meant you had to deal with missions in which you had to run along a runway several kilometers long and that is a small airport.

    The video shows you decending while crossing what would be the size of a continent. What is filling that continent? Where are the ground players? 

    There are WW2 combat MMO's where you can be in a plane of driving a truck but it appeals only to the hard core because ultimately the truck driver is driving for long hours along boring empty roads with nothing happening until a tornado bomber blows him up in a milli-second. 

    Star Wars Galaxies had procedurally generated worlds and for the most part they were completely empty of players. Activity revolved around a single hub, a single town on a single planet.

    Want further proof? Bioware's space RPG, the planet exploration missions. Considered so bad in the original they skipped them in the sequels. 

    That decent looks fun once, the second time you go "seen it" and by the 100th time you are raging at your screen to get on with it and stop wasting your time. 

    A true open exploration space game COULD work, but it would attract the kind of people who play Flight simulators, the kind that don't go pew-pew.

    It is nice to fantasize about a game that can combine ground, air and space combat seemlessly but it would create a very specilist type of game.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by sfc1971

    Sorry, NO.

    The engine looks like a pretty pony but a one trick pony. 

    To lazy to look up the name but the company behind the engine that powers Dayz made a "real" world in which you could land almost realistic aircraft on real runways. It also allowed ground combat. This meant you had to deal with missions in which you had to run along a runway several kilometers long and that is a small airport.

    The video shows you decending while crossing what would be the size of a continent. What is filling that continent? Where are the ground players? 

    There are WW2 combat MMO's where you can be in a plane of driving a truck but it appeals only to the hard core because ultimately the truck driver is driving for long hours along boring empty roads with nothing happening until a tornado bomber blows him up in a milli-second. 

    Star Wars Galaxies had procedurally generated worlds and for the most part they were completely empty of players. Activity revolved around a single hub, a single town on a single planet.

    Want further proof? Bioware's space RPG, the planet exploration missions. Considered so bad in the original they skipped them in the sequels. 

    That decent looks fun once, the second time you go "seen it" and by the 100th time you are raging at your screen to get on with it and stop wasting your time. 

    A true open exploration space game COULD work, but it would attract the kind of people who play Flight simulators, the kind that don't go pew-pew.

    It is nice to fantasize about a game that can combine ground, air and space combat seemlessly but it would create a very specilist type of game.

    It comes down to what SW fans want.  Non-stop action? naw.  Realism in sci-fantasy, as we know SW? sure.  SWTOR did try realism with docking to a ship, going to an air hanger, then going to the planet.  But what killed the idea .. was it the concept or the incessent loading screens, while traveling through the exact same hanger every damn time, no matter what planet you were on?  A new form of a game engine could only benefit SWTOR.

     

    Also with Infinity, you wouldn't necessarily go through the exact same entry point every time.  You would have a choice of how you approached a landing site.  The only changing aspect would be how you approached the planet.  Every time you entered the atmosphere, it would be different.  Hell sometimes you could crash :P

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • romanator0romanator0 Glendora, CAPosts: 2,382Member
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by bingbongbros

    Yes and YES! If Bioware had been able to make this space travel then the game would of destroyed the shit out of everyone.

     

    But it would be literally impossible for them to know how to even do this with their craptastic engine.

    Well, no one should have expected quality from Bioware after the last 5 years or so of mediocre games.

    And Bioware only ever makes linear singleplayer RPGs, I don't know why anyone expected a real MMO from them.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,467Member Uncommon

    Well only remotely like that lol.

    IMO Space type MMO`s SHOULD be the ultimate gaming genre,however nobody and i mean nobody is going to spend the dollars and time to give the genre what is deserves.

    The efforts i have seen are absolutley abysmal,yes including Eve,not even 25% of what the genre should contain.Even in thaqt video the cockpit is extremely low detail,the planet is just a generated planet and the ship is extremely low detail.

    LOD is what MOST games lack.

     


    Samoan Diamond

  • CujoSWAoACujoSWAoA Nooo, AKPosts: 1,781Member
    Would've made a good Firefly game.
  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by bingbongbros

    Yes and YES! If Bioware had been able to make this space travel then the game would of destroyed the shit out of everyone.

     

    But it would be literally impossible for them to know how to even do this with their craptastic engine.

    Well, no one should have expected quality from Bioware after the last 5 years or so of mediocre games.

    And Bioware only ever makes linear singleplayer RPGs, I don't know why anyone expected a real MMO from them.

    EA bought BioWare in 2007.

     

    http://www.gamespot.com/news/ea-buying-bioware-pandemic-for-860m-6180818

     

    So really you mean no one should have expected quality from EA.  They produce mediocre games.

     

    I could only hope this changes, especially when dealing with Star Wars. /sigh

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,933Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Galadourn
    Infinity uses a procedurally generated game world. And that's a bit tricky when it comes to placing objects and tying them with quests, etc in a MMORPG. SWTOR should have been a different game to make full use of this technology.

    Yeah it's a pipe dream right now for MMOs.  It's just not feasible.

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    Epic! Reminds me of parachuting the Alps! ^^

    Anywhoo, I think what a Star Wars MMO NEEDS are SWG-sized planets with tons of "pointless" space to roam, build and discover. Aww well... the grand old days, how I miss them. :(

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • UronksurUronksur Redmond, WAPosts: 311Member Uncommon

    Would have been so awesome.

  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member
    Not what many want to hear, but although Ptoject Titan is rumored to just be a FPS, it may be part space MMO. (Though I wouldn't hold my breath.)
  • YakamomotoYakamomoto Osaka, ARPosts: 363Member

    Ah, the i-Novae engine. I suggested it to BW during beta for real space flight, never got a response. The video got posted several times by different users over time on the TOR forums, never did a dev respond but people were always thrilled about this engine.

    Well this is what SWG 2 should have been but thanks to World of Torcraft, we won't see another SW MMO for the next 20 years, if ever.

    They can't even manage hood toggle or companions putting away their lightsabers, how should they be able to create anything like  a seemless universe with planetary atmospheric flight.

    Let's be happy they got rid of the minecraft 2004 shadows after nearly a year after release

  • UronksurUronksur Redmond, WAPosts: 311Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    Ah, the i-Novae engine. I suggested it to BW during beta for real space flight, never got a response. The video got posted several times by different users over time on the TOR forums, never did a dev respond but people were always thrilled about this engine.

    Well this is what SWG 2 should have been but thanks to World of Torcraft, we won't see another SW MMO for the next 20 years, if ever.

    They can't even manage hood toggle or companions putting away their lightsabers, how should they be able to create anything like  a seemless universe with planetary atmospheric flight.

    Let's be happy they got rid of the minecraft 2004 shadows after nearly a year after release

    Actually, they fixed companion lightsabers and hood toggle. But seeing as it took them 9 months, I'd say your point stands.

  • ClawzonClawzon PitePosts: 192Member

    Nice video indeed! Really feels like you're goin into a planet from space. And the issue with multiple planets very far away in the Galaxy could easily be solved by using that light speed thingy that we seen in the movies as a "loader" and voila!! Look at that planet ahead....  go go go there just like in your video!  (oh noes, Hordes are flying around here aswell...... hordes???  No but the enemy faction!!! World pvp even in space)  See, the OP got it all right!  EA/BioWare didn't...

     

     

     

     

    :)

«1
Sign In or Register to comment.