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I dont understand regular players botting. To me it makes no sense. If you don't really want to sit a play the game why use a bot. Gold sellers, that is a different story, I do understand that and they usually name their characters JJJuuggEE or some such nonsense. Names like that could be banned outright but it may catch real players also.
"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum
Originally posted by meddyck I started a new character the other day and by the time I loaded into game I already had a gold spam mail. All of these forms of botting are symptoms of a game that doesn't provide enough gold to players through the normal process of playing and requires too much gold to purchase end game gear. Increase gold drops and/or decrease gear costs and there wouldn't be such a huge market for 3rd party gold sellers and they'd move on.
First off gold spamming is not botting. Secondly, by your reasoning almost every popular MMO must not provide the right ratio of gold income to purchase power because every MMO I have ever played has had botting, gold selling and exploiters.
In GW2 I have not found a huge overwhelming need for mor gold than I can make. I do not see where gear or item costs are so outragous that I need to buy gold. Now in a game like WoW it seemed like you never had enough gold to get what you wanted. The extra mount prices alone were costly and before recent times the cost to get higher level riding and flying skills were steep.
Thanks for the update. They really should have had data experts from the beginning. Of all the wisdom that went into this game somehow they didn't do something so simple as protect their players at launch. It's odd. oh well, can't change the past and they are making an effort.
The problem i have with this diminishing returns thing is this. First, unless you've been reported it shouldn't activate. Seriously these botters are running around in areas easily soloable so people will see them and report them. When players go out to farm mats for crafting because it simply doesn't drop enough it's retarded to limit a players drops just because some botter is breaking the rules. I think they should make that restriction only activate if they are reported so the rest of us can continue to play the game normally.
I'm not even talking about the dungeon thing because I've discovered there seems to be a DR in open world. Tried three times now to gather enough coarse leather for my leatherworker, the first few drops are great then suddenly i get nothing over and over again accept greys and some useless items. And why aren't animals dropping furs more often? I'd gladly trade some minor coin to be able to salvage leather from creatures. It's just too weird.
Same goes for cloth. It's like they would have us believe that these humanoid mobs or animal mobs aren't wearing clothes/have no skin.
Originally posted by TeknoBug Deny all you want with "I haven't seen any" I'm uploading more videos of them, they're all over on Yak's Bend, even in the 55-70 zones. http://www.youtube.com/nolegu
I watched the videos and there are a lot of characters moving around at once. They might be concidered "bots", but I fail to see how a group of characters playing and leveling together interfers with your game progress or enjoying the content? Are they stopping you from collecting resources? Can't happen in GW2. Are they preventing you from completing a quest or progression in the game? Can't happen in GW2. So what is it with a large group of characters in game that gets people all worked up? If I had multiple accounts and a way to play them at once I would level more than one character at a time also. Does that make me a bot?
In WoW people could have multiple accounts and dual-box them, playing 2+ accounts at the same time. In pvp it was not uncommon to see someone playing 2-5 toons at once. This was not an illegel act nor did it interfer with my gaming experience. For the most part a few developers from Blizzard even said more power to a person if they wanted to do it.
So I ask..... what is the big deal with a large group of characters leveling together in a game? Unless they are doing something against the game rules they aren't hurting my gaming experience, especially in GW2 because they can't ruin or impede my progression by stealing kills, hogging resources or blocking questing items/bosses. AND the in game gold spamming in GW2 is no where close to as bad as other MMOs. Will it go away? Absolutely not. Gold sellers, exploiters, and people who play multiple accounts at once will always be in MMOs.
They're doing it to generate gold, to sell to the buyers. The amount of spam has gone up, each time I log in I get 3-4 emails I have to report and delete. I used to get 1-2 spam emails a day in SWTOR, and City of Heroes it was worse. The increase in bots over the past month means people has been buying from them, if there were no business, there wouldn't be many.
Pay attention to some of the names in those videos; WHo rolls a toon named kjdfdfh? And none of them are ever in a guild, and they're almost always wearing the same gear.
Who cares if "legit" players suffer? As in, if they create systems that prevent ANYONE from farming a single location for hours on end... So what? A legit player could just move to another camp.
The ISSUE that needs resolved and is an epic-failure on Guild Wars 2 part is the teleporting. You're not going to be able to stop botting as it's possible to do it via mouse and keyboard inputs making it nearly impossible to track. And who cares, if the game is so simple that you can automate combat I say thats failure on development and gameplay design.
Being able to teleport across the map and between targets instantly is the real issue and it's something that CAN be resolved.
Originally posted by botrytis I dont understand regular players botting. To me it makes no sense. If you don't really want to sit a play the game why use a bot. Gold sellers, that is a different story, I do understand that and they usually name their characters JJJuuggEE or some such nonsense. Names like that could be banned outright but it may catch real players also.
Because people have responsabilities that force them to not be able to play 24/7. Bots have no limits, they don't need to sleep, they don't need a break because of tired hand. So while the players may play 1-2 hours daily, they can bot the remaining 22 hours.
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour Originally posted by botrytis I dont understand regular players botting. To me it makes no sense. If you don't really want to sit a play the game why use a bot. Gold sellers, that is a different story, I do understand that and they usually name their characters JJJuuggEE or some such nonsense. Names like that could be banned outright but it may catch real players also.
That and to gain enough gold/karma to get the legendaries. It costs so much to get them that it could take an average player months to get just 1. But take all the downtime away and replace it with half productive (since its not like they can farm as effective as an actual player) and you can get it within a month I'd assume.
Originally posted by GrumpyCharr I made this original post in a moment of genuine frustration. The following must happen: 1. Response time must be improved. Bots at work for days is not acceptable. 2. Bot/exploit detection must improve. Goes without saying. 3. All of this must be done without damaging the experience of legit players.
I also propose the following:
1) Illegal pirating of media must be stopped
2) world peace must be achieved
3) cancer must be cured
4) time travel must be realized
.... point is, the problem is much larger than you comprehend- and have you ever thought that at this point in time, it is not possible from a technological or financial standpoint to completely fulfill all three points that you listed? Every MMORPG that has come out has had problems with gold selling/bots/hacks and none of them were able to completely stop them.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
Originally posted by gessekai332 Originally posted by GrumpyCharr I made this original post in a moment of genuine frustration. The following must happen: 1. Response time must be improved. Bots at work for days is not acceptable. 2. Bot/exploit detection must improve. Goes without saying. 3. All of this must be done without damaging the experience of legit players.
1) Get rid of the internet
2) Kill all the people
3) pretty sure death fixes that one too
4) As the last surviving member you can makeup whatever day it is you want.
Oh... without harming others... you got me there.
Some people just have to realize that you can work hard for your money and earn it, or you can get it the easy way and bum it off of people (darn lazy hobos, always sitting there on the streets for change *shakes fist*). These things can all be doable, yes, but I'd rather new content, new DEs, improved instances, and bug fixes over caring about a few botters. Sure they are annoying, but as long as they are at least putting in their time to fix it a little, it's a lot better than not doing anything at all or putting in more resources than necessary to fix it.
If you want all that to happen, you have to sacrifice something. Problems to these solutions don't magically appear out of air. You have to either hire new employees or use existing to help with regulation. You need to waste the developers time trying to find fixes in code to stop hackers rather than making new content. There is a tradeoff to everything, so regardless of whether or not you try to fix the problem or not, the legit players are going to suffer (if botting really is such an epidemic that people suffer that bad because of it).
Originally posted by TomBaker_fan Geez, drama much? I reported a gaggle of 4 botters yesterday and within 15 minutes they disapeared. This is the only time I have ever seen bots, so they are doing the best they can. It is up to us to report what we see, if we do, they respond. Why do people love drama so much?
Cool story, i dont believe you.
Outside 2 waypoints in Orr is a group of bots on Tarnished Coast that have been there since the end of the first week of launch, we report them daily, we have an alliance fo 4 guilds that report them daily. one guild even has video of the bots teleport hacking to spawn points, and yet they are STILL THERE, and now they have even MORE bots with them.
I can provide pics, video, etc etc.
I will even transfer to YOUR SERVER, find BOTS and see if you can report them and they disappear in 15 minutes.
Originally posted by Zzad Originally posted by sfc1971 I am still amazed people are suprised. Korean MMO's have never had quality, that is why they could afford to be free. Because they were very simple games with just lot of flash in the frontend. Before and during launch, you saw countless posts how GW2 lnot needing a subscription was proof western developers were lying with their claim they needed subs to pay for servers and support. Well guess what? Those posters were wrong.
Did you know ARENANET is an American Studio ,right ???
Well guess what? You were wrong......
Guild wars 2 is owned by a Korean company, they have total say in how much money it gets, if it will get new content, if it is shut down and about how it's run, and everything else. Arenanet work for Ncsoft which is a Korean company.
Originally posted by tank017 Originally posted by ste2000 I heard of Bots from other players, but never met one in game yet, so it is not rampant as the OP make out to be.
then I have to ask... what does it even matter?
If they are THAT unnoticable I mean.
I have seen a few bots, but I only really PvE and I don't use the cash shop, so I don't report them because I don't play to protect ANet's gold sales. They are no more impactful for me then the real players that have exploited and farmed tbh. If anything bots keep market prices down, and for someone that hasn't farmed or exploited that is kinda a good thing..
Rampant botting! An epidemic! Really? I'm a pretty observant guy, I tend to notice things a lot of other people miss. I also report people I see botting, along with gold sellers.
So far I've reported ... wait for it ... 4 bots in GW2. 4, not 40, nor 400, just 4. Count them, 1,2,3,4. OMFG! We've got an epidemic of rampant bots!
I'm eagerly awaiting the next installment of "How to Derail GW2 with Bullshit Posts".
Originally posted by SgtOx How bad would it be for there to be an MMO without an economy? JUst adventure, loot souldbound shit for your class only and make all crafting materials soul bound? I rather that then botting and people paying these spammers money to get ahead in a game.
Not so bad at all. If a company hates that its players try to become rich through the market, I suggest to remove the market altogether. Markets, in which players can trade with other players, is not necessary for every themepark; people can enjoy themselves without a such market.
Originally posted by Vesavius Originally posted by tank017 Originally posted by ste2000 I heard of Bots from other players, but never met one in game yet, so it is not rampant as the OP make out to be.
becuase on other servers they are VERY noticeable..
I just switched servers becuase of them.I see packs of anywhere from 2-10 everytime I log on.
Just becuase you arent having a problem,doesnt mean others arent.
Originally posted by GrumpyCharr Teleport hacks and rampant botting are out of control in this game. ArenaNet has recently addresed this issue via their forums, but it's looking more and more like PR speak. I've personally witnessed hordes of bots left unchecked for days. As I logged off in frustration just now, I was wacthing a guardian bot teleport from mob to mob while attacking w/ his scepter at unlimited range, through terrain. I've been on the Guild Wars 2 bandwagon for a year and a half and it's crushing to have an issue as basic as anti-cheat measures break it. Only recently have they reported hiring some people to develop better anti-cheat people. But the whole problem is that they are trying to automate something that it takes real humans to address. Without actual human beings to contact about these serious issues, they are left unchecked long enough that by the time those accounts are banned, the damage is done and they've moved on to other places, other hacks. ArenaNet is flat out too slow in addressing these issues. Outside of one forum post on the issue, they haven't said squat about how they are going to fix it. I simply cannot enjoy a game where bots are running as rampant as they are allowed to right now. UPDATE: Since I've posted this, ArenaNet has stated that they are combating botting in three ways (summary of their statements): 1. Diminishing Returns. When a bot farms a group of enemies over a period of time, drops go down. The purpose is to limit their damage until they can be reported and banned. They have clearly stated that they are still tweeking this since many legit players have also found that this had limited their drops as well. 2. Bot detection. They've stated on their forums that they have recently hired data experts to improve their ability to detect and remove bots. This is obviously incomplete at this time since some bots are active for days at a time without detection. 3. Player reporting. This is, at this stage, the only known reliable way to remove bots. Sadly, the epidemic is strong enough that there just isnt the manpower to allow for the proper investigation for each individual botting case. Imagine there are five accounts all multiboxing. They have to look into each of those accounts and investigate them one at a time. They don't want to accidentally ban a legit player who was mistakenly reported because he was near the bots at the time the report went down. I made this original post in a moment of genuine frustration. The following must happen: 1. Response time must be improved. Bots at work for days is not acceptable. 2. Bot/exploit detection must improve. Goes without saying. 3. All of this must be done without damaging the experience of legit players.
The botting is issue is HORRENDOUSLY bad. Having played many MMO's (AC, AO, Eve, WoW, LOTRO, SWTOR, Champions, GW1) I have NEVER seen such a bad botting issue and I agree with everything you've said. What's more, I don't think you mentioned another issue with botting. Botting in PVE areas is bad, but botting in WvWvW is almost as bad. If the bots are on your team, you CAN report them. If, however, they're on another realm, YOU CANNOT. There is NO method by which you can report enemy players in WvWvW because their identity is hidden from you. All you see is "Realm Invader/Defender" and that's it.
Originally posted by jmcdermottuk Rampant botting! An epidemic! Really? I'm a pretty observant guy, I tend to notice things a lot of other people miss. I also report people I see botting, along with gold sellers. So far I've reported ... wait for it ... 4 bots in GW2. 4, not 40, nor 400, just 4. Count them, 1,2,3,4. OMFG! We've got an epidemic of rampant bots! I'm eagerly awaiting the next installment of "How to Derail GW2 with Bullshit Posts".
So if you can't/don't see it, it CAN'T be true?
Bots DO impact you because ANet introduced the DR code to combat them. The DR code is buggy, however, and ANet have several times already adjusted the code because it was a detriment to honest, Terms of Service/Code of Conduct abiding, players.
I don't think "they're breaking the rules but I don't care because it doesn't affect me" is a valid position to take in any context.
Yes, every game has had problems. No, not on the scale GW2 is seeing and other companies have done a BETTER job of addressing the botters and the impact they have had on legitimate players.
Did you know ArenaNet is owned by NCSoft? Did you know NCSoft is a South Korea based gaming company?