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Not ment to be hate. Its jsut not the same game a lot of us fell in love with.
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
TBC is still my fondest memory ever in gaming so I agree with mikepreachwow.
I definitely agree with a lot of the video, and I actually think there is a way to maintain both the elitism (not used in the traditional negative sense) of top tier raids as well as accessibility. The answer lies in not making previous raid tiers (let alone previous expansions' raids and dungeons) utterly obsolete the moment a new tier of content is released.
Imagine how much content current WoW would have if it featured a down-scaling system similar to GW2 or even FFXI. This isn't meant to be a "praise the holy features of GW2!" moment, so bear with me. I'm simply inviting you to imagine this one particular feature, perhaps not implemented in exactly the same way, in an aged game like WoW, which now features 4 full expansions of content. Imagine if every WoW raid and dungeon was still challenging and offered relevant rewards. There would be no need to remake 1 or 2 classic dungeons with each expansion; they'd all still be available!
But not only that, the top tier of content could once again be made to be ridiculously challenging and become an elite feat. The rest of the WoW community, that 99%, would still have so much content to enjoy. The journey would continue to exist for both subsets. Then when a new tier comes out once again, that supposed 1% would move on (in addition to still being able to raid any other content they please), while the previous raids would continue to be progressed by the rest of the WoW raiding community. This content will eventually be able to be seen, relevantly, by all WoW players as a function of both added time dedicated to downing those bosses as well as slightly improved stats (after down-scaling).
Now, I do think several things will need to be monitored to actually make all content relevant, namely dungeon rewards compared to current tier gear as well as just how challenging the older content remains after down-scaling. I think increased gear power after down-scaling needs to be significant enough to allow players who couldn't beat that content while it was top tier to get in there and, after making an earnest effort, begin to down the bosses, but not so significant that it feels like a level 85 group returning to a level 70 raid and just blasting their way through, or even a T6 geared group returning to T4 content and completely dominating everything without abiding by the raid mechanics.
But those are all just the logistics of implementation. The idea stands regardless of tuning.
I kind of agree but the issue is not that the raid content is too easy it's that blizzard make it avaliable on PTR's for month for guilds to play and make guides, they've been doing this much more since and including Wrath.
I think blizzard have also gone mad with different types of raids, 10man, 25man, 10man Hardmode, 25man hardmode, LFR 10man, LFR 25man -- they should just go with 20man normal and Hardmode and it they must keep everyone happy include a 10man LFR, but only make this accessable a month after the end boss has been killed by a 20man raid (on a per server basis).
Blizzard have talked about moving to a 1 raid size of 20 but I tihnk they're scared of pssing off established 10 and 25 man groups, but I say do it anyway in the long run it will be better for every one.
FYI, litchking only fell 48 hours later cus of a bug with saronite bombs, all bosses upto the LK were avaliable on a PTR so most guilds after spending a day getting to max level spent the next few hours getting through bosses they've fought a 100 times before and spending the rest of the day learning LK.
I played solid for 2 years after BC and on and off for 3 more years. I unsubbed and uninstalled 3 days ago. I was saddened by what I saw. I'm not bagging on WoW, but it is not the same game it was -- AT ALL.
I'm not saying it's "bad." It's just not for me. My guild and everyone I knew or met who played WoW is gone. They moved on.
From my experience up to now, the game is not the same because -- especially because -- the community is not the same. I realize things change, games change and "evolve." But the direction WoW has taken discourages community and communication. It's all about grabbing the lewts as fast as possible and using other people to help you achieve that end only because it is necessary to have others help you. That is not community building.
And other people are necessary to show your stuff off to. That's the only other reason you need people around in the current iteration of WoW. It was a sad a lonely experience for me -- ironic because the queues on my server were longer than ever.
That's what made me sad about WoW. We aren't going to change it. There is a new generation of gamers who are not like the first generation of WoW players, so WoW will not go back to how it was. It's time for me to move on. That's all.
AsRock 990FX Extreme3AMD Phenom II 1090T ~3.2GhzGEiL 16Gb DDR3 1600MhzASUS GTX970 3x HD monitor 1920x1080
More importantly, IMO, is to think about what this says about our society. What's happening in WoW and other games is only a microcosm of how our society is becoming.
That's what makes this so hard to accept. This is the direction consumer culture is taking on its headlong race to oblvion. People have no idea what quality is. They have now idea about hard work, honor, justice, etc.
Oh...now I sound like an old guy. This is what old people where saying about my generation...
Good vid and some interesting facts about how long it took
to take out the newest boss's back in the day ! I remember
"Finally!" lol getting attuned for Molten Core, our guild loved that
place! Now it's just a grind of rep and dailies to get anything,
granted we grinded in vanilla , somehow tho it did'nt feel that
way. Killing the players abilty to feel somewhat "unique" in game-
play and style.But it has its followers as 10 mill. makes it still ..
top dog in mmo subs.
Very valid for the Cata period, but I don't think he did his research for MoP.
You can't just jump into the raids. They are tiered, just like in the orginal game.
Spot on...things used to be EPIC becasue they where! I still remember the day we killed ragnaros for the first time it was INSANE on ventrilo. 40 psychopaths terrorizing there neighbors across europe along the lines of "FUCK YOU RAGGY" and " RAAAAAWWWRRRRR" Stuff like that creates moments you never forget.
Got those same sensations raiding in Sw:tor...LOL
well, gotta say the video is spot on; Blizzard has either lost their most creative minds or is aiming in shifting WoW's playerbase to younger ages (perhaps in preparation for Titan project?).
Seeing those raid instances did give me a shiver, because I remembered the times when warrior gear would come with +spirit and getting your hands on any tier armor was considered an achievement. Those were fun times, and they made player cooperation a necessity in order to best the best the game had to offer. Since then, things have been going south, effectively having gear and content being delivered on request with teh pressing of a button.
Ah well, time to move on I guess...
Slightly OTT but he's right. Not just for WoW, but for pretty much every mainstream mmo these days.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Originally posted by Reizla This is not a problem with WoW only. It's a problem with all (older) MMORPG's out there. I used to play Lineage II since C2 (2005). It was damn hard then. By now every new player can hit 85 in less than 1 month, and it took me 4 years to reach it back then. Just face it us (old-school players) are a dieing breed and either have to giev in to the kids who want things easy or quit playing MMORPG's all together *opting latter choice*
Not yet theres still hope with sandbox games coming from indie devs. EvE is doing well( good game but im a littel biased on that lol). Archeage looks promising as a pve sandbox. Lets not forget Darkfall which I will be playing. I'm a big pvp guy and im currently enjoying the hell out of the first darkfall.
As far as themeparks I think TESO jsu tmight surprise people, but news so far isn't looking good.
I can't be bothered with raiding in WoW anymore.
Raiding used to feel magical to me.
Now it feels like a weekly version of dailies.
It's just something to grind in order to stay current and keep up with everybody else.
The bosses have become a blur to me. I've stopped caring. There is nothing big or scary about them. There is no risk other than time lost and a repair bill which the dailies you grind easily cover anyway. Most of the difficulty of the raid lies not in downing the bosses, but keeping people together if something doesn't go smooth or fast enough for them, which is just so sad. At the end of the day, the bosses are just loot vending machines where X number of people have to hold hands and perform a specific dance which is often dictated to them by an online guide, YouTube video, the raid leader or even an addon in order to activate the dropping of purple shinies.
I never come out of a raid these days feeling like a hero.
Sure, you can up the challenge by doing hard mode, but to me it has the same problem as replaying a single player game in hard mode. I've already seen the content. Playing something in hard mode is only interesting to me if the basic mechanics of the game really speak to me. WoW is not that kind of game since a lot of the raid mechanics seem rather made up and on rails. Almost like that awful D&D session back in high school school with the DM who insisted that High Lord Archdemon Ba'Dass could only be killed if certain events took place during the encounter because that's how the adventure module he bought at the store was written.
But that's just how I feel. Your experience may be entirely different and equally valid.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
It sounds to me like he's on a nostalgia trip, without context.
Relaistically your never going to get that sense of wonder again, when you first played and experienced your first raid. I remember running MC in the beginning, the journey was great, in a way, getting to that point. What my brain choses to forgot though is all grinding I had to do through on Strah/Scolo for the dungeon sets and then the upgrades from LBRS and then the grinding to get to UBRS, to get the gear to show up for MC. Let alone all the pots mats I had to grind and the rep stuff from Hydraxion.
Look I've been there, I loved TBC, I thought it had the best raiding content in terms of progression, but most people friggin hated it, especially from a guild cohesion perspective. Stuck on water element boss in SSC because the tanks didn't have the right resistence sets for weeks, let alone Kel'Thas or Sunwell, which barely anyone did. People complained, if people don't see the content they stop subbing, that's the flaw in he's argument. People will not, 'reeducate', themselves to believe they have the grind/ be decent to see the content. They'll just stop playing, as I saw in Wrath on Rotface 25man because it's not, 'fun', anymore.
Any old school raiders can moan as much as they like, or say there needs to be a, 'journey', but if your honest it's just nostalgia talking. We saw with Cata, when the raids started out tougher most of the playerbase hated it and complained or ended up leaving. Nowadays we have so many variations of the same raid, (which requires less dev time), it's a joke but it does suit the playerbase that is there now, becasue they can see the content.
We can't turn the clock back, no matter how some may like to...
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
I agree with the video. By todays standard what he is talking about is called a grind and considered bad; You had to work to see content because it was hard. But it also made downing bosses an achievement.
(And now days when blizzard does add content that is more difficult, like the heroic troll dungeons. Players just complain and then no one wants to tank)
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz (And now days when blizzard does add content that is more difficult, like the heroic troll dungeons. Players just complain and then no one wants to tank)
Thiis sums it up. Blizzard tried to make content more challenging with Cata heroics. people bitched and bitched and bitched leaving the obvious conclusion that people do not want harder content as a majority.
What raiding misse smost is the sense of scale. 10 man is a glorified group. 20 man is barely a raid. 40 was a decent compromise with EQ1. 10 man is ridiculous.
Originally posted by strangiato2112 Originally posted by Johnie-Marz (And now days when blizzard does add content that is more difficult, like the heroic troll dungeons. Players just complain and then no one wants to tank)
Yeah, some MMO's have six man dungeons.
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz I agree with the video. By todays standard what he is talking about is called a grind and considered bad; You had to work to see content because it was hard. But it also made downing bosses an achievement. (And now days when blizzard does add content that is more difficult, like the heroic troll dungeons. Players just complain and then no one wants to tank)
Blizzard created this problem because of the instant gratification crowd. Also the whiners that cried since they paid $15 like everyone else they "deserve" to see the content.
Today's player base finds it unacceptable to wipe. One wipe and you get people raging.
I remember wiping in heroic Arcatraz quite a bit. Then again quite often in MgT.
No one raged. We just got back at it and eventually finished.
I also miss the attunements for dungeons. It was a great way to have guildies out doing stuff in the world together working towards a future goal.
Yes, I miss the old WoW.
Originally posted by Zecktorin Not ment to be hate. Its jsut not the same game a lot of us fell in love with.
The guy in the video is another one who believes that he knows better than Blizzard about what is good for WoW and what is not. I was just like him till a couple of years ago. You wan't to know why Bliizard steered WoW towards the path described in the footage? Take a good look at the gamer demographics puplished over the last 3 - 4 years and if you have half a brain and are able to comprehend basic number figures then you'll have your answers.
Blizzard like all other game companies is not the salvation army like some people delude themselves it is.
You know what happened to that teary-eyed trip down nostalgia lane? The raiders happened.
When, in TBC, they decided it was better to poach other guilds instead of taking newer players, it happened. When they decided that it was no longer their place to teach new people how to raid, it happened. When they decided that they were too good to have to regear new recruits, it happened. They did it to themselves. And what -happened- was that a chain of guilds started forming and people would move from one to another to another straight on up until they saw the content...then many of them would go on their way. After all, you recruit a bunch of guild-hoppers, why would you be surprised when they guild-hop? This led to only an incredibly tiny number of people seeing anything and led to extreme frustration on the part of everyone else who -also- wanted that magical journey but couldn't get it because of the guys at the top stealing their talent out of laziness. They left the room for the 'we deserve to see it too' argument, and -now- they're all misty-eyed about it, complaining to all and sundry about how the games are trash nowadays, all the while refusing to accept the responsibility for causing it in the first place.
No, what was trash was the entitlement attitude that the top raiders had when they tore apart the guilding system. You reap what you sow.
LFM UBRS Need key
LFG Scholo, LBRS, Strat, UBRS
Originally posted by rounner LFM UBRS Need key .... LFM UBRS Need key .... .... LFG Stitching ... LFG Scholo, LBRS, Strat, UBRS .... Logs off
This made me laugh, this is why WoW still does well they make things better with there game over time. They take out the nuances.