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[Ask Me Anything] I've bought in-game currency before, and I still have a soul. Go figure...

24

Comments

  • ElNubreUneroElNubreUnero UhohhPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by Sicae

    Thanks for supporting phishing mails, banner hacks and grind bots. Without you online games would never be the same.

    /golfclap

    I only buy gold from a trusted website which gathers its gold through farming.

    You do realize that there ARE websites which run a professional business with an ethical policy...right?

    I only have one source for anything I buy, solely for this reason. I do NOT support hackers or phishers. There is a reason I do not buy from the cheapest website, or why I never...EVER...buy from those who spam ads in game. (I'm sure those are phishers and hackers, guaranteed, along with most other vendors).

     

    Thank you for being yet another 20-something male who assumes automatically the worse, without knowing any evidence or factual information to form said opinion.

    Ah, assumptions, perhaps the most scientific type of evidence possible.

    Sites like that are breaking the rules. The accounts they use get banned. To keep from spending excessive amounts of money on new accounts which make it less profitable they resort to highjacking and or stealing others accounts. When they highjack an account temporarily the player becomes at risk of getting banned, if they take it completely that player generally never recieves all his or her items back.

    You are trying to say "There are good drug dealers" but it doesn't work that way. You are in unregulated territory where people are going against rules and regulations put in place to stop them in order to make a profit. I'm sorry, but you are a bit to self centered to look at this objectively. Your only concern is the effect it has on you and it has blinded you to the effects it has on your servers economy, other players, and the developers. You care only about your instant gratification and fair play be damned. You are above the rules because your time is simply more valuable than everyone elses.

     

    The sole reason that you're comparing drug dealers and gold sellers is enough for me to be fully aware there is no valid argument or reasonable logic to anything you will say in the future.

    Seriously...comparing gold sellers to drug dealers? You're really going to go there? LOL...

    Yeah... because a pot dealer and a gold seller making a profit by breaking the laws and regulations set are completely different.

    I get it, I don't agree with you so there for my points must not be valid. It's a common tactic of someone suffering from narcissism.

     

     

    Breaking Laws and Regulations makes you a bad guy?

    So if a drug dealer breaks the law of a country and government, it makes him a bad guy.

    If a video game player in World of Warcraft breaks a rule vaugely stated in a ToS, it makes him just as bad?

     

    Are we all 5th graders? Are we still stuck in Level 2 of Moral Development?

     

    For your own sake, I would seriously take a look at research done by Lawrence Kohlberg, specifically on the stages of moral development.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development

     

    You state that talking to me is like talking to a child, yet fail to realize that your moral reasoning is about as developped as a teenager. Something you should seriously look into.

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by Sicae

    Thanks for supporting phishing mails, banner hacks and grind bots. Without you online games would never be the same.

    /golfclap

    I only buy gold from a trusted website which gathers its gold through farming.

    You do realize that there ARE websites which run a professional business with an ethical policy...right?

    I only have one source for anything I buy, solely for this reason. I do NOT support hackers or phishers. There is a reason I do not buy from the cheapest website, or why I never...EVER...buy from those who spam ads in game. (I'm sure those are phishers and hackers, guaranteed, along with most other vendors).

     

    Thank you for being yet another 20-something male who assumes automatically the worse, without knowing any evidence or factual information to form said opinion.

    Ah, assumptions, perhaps the most scientific type of evidence possible.

    orange. how do you know? 

    red. lol, the only thing that ties those people to actually delivering the golds is your credit card company since you can do a charge back if you haven't recieved the product (golds in this case). 

    most of them use your informations and try to breach your ingame account (my friend bought golds an the next day he got hacked, so it was tah-tah money).

    and I don't know why you're posting this crap on forum. do you need a justification or someone to tell you "yeah man, I did it too and it's OK" ?  To me the only thing I see in this post is a person who supports those spammings in chats and emails full of junk and for that I do not like whatever you post later on in this thread and also I so wish for you to get banned in that game where you boght gold.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • ElNubreUneroElNubreUnero UhohhPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by vgamer

    Read this article first:

     

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/25/china-prisoners-internet-gaming-scam

     

    Now, how do you feel you potentially support this kind of activity? I know in your mind, you have this ideal picture where happy farmers are earning money to support their families. However, reality seems to suggest otherwise. Do you think that, maybe, there is slight chance that you're actually promoting this inhumane activities. This is besides phishing, scamming and other malicious things.

    Thank you for the article! :)

     

    I am fully happy about my gold purchases, as the vendor I buy from does not use unethical practices. It is very important to find a vendor that is ethical, as opposed to just the cheapest or first you come across.

    The only way you could possibly know that is if you actually worked for them. Some guy said they didn't use any unethical practices and because it was said on the internet it must be true.

    I'm starting to feel like I'm having a converation with a kid. The level of denial or naivety here is just insane.

    Why are you talking to yourself in a post quoting me?

    Oddly enough...I'm not a mirror, so you must be really confused...or I am...are you talking about yourself? So confusing...

    Really? I know you are but what am I? Did you really just go that route? ... ok I'm done, I'm not sitting here discussing this with a child lol.

    I find it humorous that you just now realized how trivial and childish your conversation with me has been. Typically when intelligent people realize the person they're talking to is thinking like a child, they end all positive recourse and resort to laughter. You actually expect people to take you seriously when you compare gold sellers to drug dealers?

    No offense intended, but the moment you compared drug dealers to gold sellers...I began to reflect excatly the same intelligence and behavior you were giving to me.

     

    P.S. I know you are, but what am I? A gold buyer. I know you are, but what am I? A gold buyer. Takes one to know one! :P

  • ElNubreUneroElNubreUnero UhohhPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by korent1991
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by Sicae

    Thanks for supporting phishing mails, banner hacks and grind bots. Without you online games would never be the same.

    /golfclap

    I only buy gold from a trusted website which gathers its gold through farming.

    You do realize that there ARE websites which run a professional business with an ethical policy...right?

    I only have one source for anything I buy, solely for this reason. I do NOT support hackers or phishers. There is a reason I do not buy from the cheapest website, or why I never...EVER...buy from those who spam ads in game. (I'm sure those are phishers and hackers, guaranteed, along with most other vendors).

     

    Thank you for being yet another 20-something male who assumes automatically the worse, without knowing any evidence or factual information to form said opinion.

    Ah, assumptions, perhaps the most scientific type of evidence possible.

    orange. how do you know? 

    red. lol, the only thing that ties those people to actually delivering the golds is your credit card company since you can do a charge back if you haven't recieved the product (golds in this case). 

    most of them use your informations and try to breach your ingame account (my friend bought golds an the next day he got hacked, so it was tah-tah money).

    How do you know the food you eat, water you drink, cars you drive, or roads you drive on, are not all tainted by the hands of the mafia?

    How do you know you're not supporting horrible practices and corrupt business ethics (along with hundreds of other ethics violations) when you breath, sneeze, or fart?

     

    Four hands to a barrel, you have absolutely no idea what goes behind getting gas into your car, making your car, fixing the roads, building that turnpike, or even how that brown stained underwear of yours got sown and flown to your western country and into the store where a minimum wage employee sold it to you in a bundle with 9 other pairs.

     

    This is a very weak argument. At least I do my research on products I use or buy. Unfortunately, often we have little choice as sometimes ALL choices are corrupt (like grocery stores Walmart, Target, or any fast food industry which pays its employees pathetically for such hard work and stressful jobs). Fortunately, we have a lot of choices when it comes to gold vendors, and not all of them are corrupt! Hurray for indie business and small businesses!

  • ElNubreUneroElNubreUnero UhohhPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by Cuathon
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by vgamer

    Read this article first:

     

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/25/china-prisoners-internet-gaming-scam

     

    Now, how do you feel you potentially support this kind of activity? I know in your mind, you have this ideal picture where happy farmers are earning money to support their families. However, reality seems to suggest otherwise. Do you think that, maybe, there is slight chance that you're actually promoting this inhumane activities. This is besides phishing, scamming and other malicious things.

    Thank you for the article! :)

     

    I am fully happy about my gold purchases, as the vendor I buy from does not use unethical practices. It is very important to find a vendor that is ethical, as opposed to just the cheapest or first you come across.

    I have a bridge to sell you along with some Fairtrade cocaine (more profit to the farmer and no violence involved)

    OP is a documented troll who signed up a couple weeks ago to post his troll bait. Best to ignore it till it goes away. But hey, I bet he could really use that bridge, its the troll's favored dwelling. Do you have any billt goats gruff to go with it?

    Please refrain from going off topic and trolling. While I normally have disfavor for the trolls around here and quickly place them on ignore, I actually feel sorry for you ever since you cursed me out and went hyper-sensitive after that post I made about 20-somethings having foul breath.

    I honestly did not mean to offend you in that thread, and wish you were not so sensitive or at the very least accepted my apology in PM. Unfortunately, you decide to stalk my posts and attack me any chance you get. How hurt are you? I truly am sorry...if I hurt you this much with that remark that you feel the need to stalk and insult me any chance you can...I really wish I hadn't insulted most 20-somethings male gamers.

    Once again, I am sorry, and want to reassure you that I did not state ALL 20-somethings. There is intelligent life out there in the universe.

  • vgamervgamer Texas, IAPosts: 195Member
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by korent1991
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by Sicae

    Thanks for supporting phishing mails, banner hacks and grind bots. Without you online games would never be the same.

    /golfclap

    I only buy gold from a trusted website which gathers its gold through farming.

    You do realize that there ARE websites which run a professional business with an ethical policy...right?

    I only have one source for anything I buy, solely for this reason. I do NOT support hackers or phishers. There is a reason I do not buy from the cheapest website, or why I never...EVER...buy from those who spam ads in game. (I'm sure those are phishers and hackers, guaranteed, along with most other vendors).

     

    Thank you for being yet another 20-something male who assumes automatically the worse, without knowing any evidence or factual information to form said opinion.

    Ah, assumptions, perhaps the most scientific type of evidence possible.

    orange. how do you know? 

    red. lol, the only thing that ties those people to actually delivering the golds is your credit card company since you can do a charge back if you haven't recieved the product (golds in this case). 

    most of them use your informations and try to breach your ingame account (my friend bought golds an the next day he got hacked, so it was tah-tah money).

    How do you know the food you eat, water you drink, cars you drive, or roads you drive on, are not all tainted by the hands of the mafia?

    How do you know you're not supporting horrible practices and corrupt business ethics (along with hundreds of other ethics violations) when you breath, sneeze, or fart?

     

    Four hands to a barrel, you have absolutely no idea what goes behind getting gas into your car, making your car, fixing the roads, building that turnpike, or even how that brown stained underwear of yours got sown and flown to your western country and into the store where a minimum wage employee sold it to you in a bundle with 9 other pairs.

     

    This is a very weak argument. At least I do my research on products I use or buy. Unfortunately, often we have little choice as sometimes ALL choices are corrupt (like grocery stores Walmart, Target, or any fast food industry which pays its employees pathetically for such hard work and stressful jobs). Fortunately, we have a lot of choices when it comes to gold vendors, and not all of them are corrupt! Hurray for indie business and small businesses!

    That's the thing though, this gold farming bussiness is tainted with these malicious activities. How often do you hear that your baker is being exploited? How often do you hear that the farmers are doing slave labour? Don't you think that if everything was tainted, it would have gotten out?

     

    Just ask yourself this: How can something like these gold farming prison stories get out, in one of the most heavily censored countries? If these stories reach the media, how come you never hear about slave labor in supermarkets?

     

    And additionally, you are comparing food to in-game gold. Can't you see how one is essential while the other is a luxury choice?

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by korent1991
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by Sicae

    Thanks for supporting phishing mails, banner hacks and grind bots. Without you online games would never be the same.

    /golfclap

    I only buy gold from a trusted website which gathers its gold through farming.

    You do realize that there ARE websites which run a professional business with an ethical policy...right?

    I only have one source for anything I buy, solely for this reason. I do NOT support hackers or phishers. There is a reason I do not buy from the cheapest website, or why I never...EVER...buy from those who spam ads in game. (I'm sure those are phishers and hackers, guaranteed, along with most other vendors).

     

    Thank you for being yet another 20-something male who assumes automatically the worse, without knowing any evidence or factual information to form said opinion.

    Ah, assumptions, perhaps the most scientific type of evidence possible.

    orange. how do you know? 

    red. lol, the only thing that ties those people to actually delivering the golds is your credit card company since you can do a charge back if you haven't recieved the product (golds in this case). 

    most of them use your informations and try to breach your ingame account (my friend bought golds an the next day he got hacked, so it was tah-tah money).

    How do you know the food you eat, water you drink, cars you drive, or roads you drive on, are not all tainted by the hands of the mafia?

    How do you know you're not supporting horrible practices and corrupt business ethics (along with hundreds of other ethics violations) when you breath, sneeze, or fart?

     

    Four hands to a barrel, you have absolutely no idea what goes behind getting gas into your car, making your car, fixing the roads, building that turnpike, or even how that brown stained underwear of yours got sown and flown to your western country and into the store where a minimum wage employee sold it to you in a bundle with 9 other pairs.

     

    This is a very weak argument. At least I do my research on products I use or buy. Unfortunately, often we have little choice as sometimes ALL choices are corrupt (like grocery stores Walmart, Target, or any fast food industry which pays its employees pathetically for such hard work and stressful jobs). Fortunately, we have a lot of choices when it comes to gold vendors, and not all of them are corrupt! Hurray for indie business and small businesses!

    You just took my argument and you posted it again in hoping that you can turn it against me and then you said how weak it is. You just patted yourself on the back.

    The 2nd line you wrote is pure idiotism and I think you know that. lol... it just diminishes my opinion of your intelligence.

    BTW. I don't live in a western country, so get your crystal globe and give it to the repair shop. Needs a lot of fixing to do.

     

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • ElNubreUneroElNubreUnero UhohhPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by vgamer
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by korent1991
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by Sicae

    Thanks for supporting phishing mails, banner hacks and grind bots. Without you online games would never be the same.

    /golfclap

    I only buy gold from a trusted website which gathers its gold through farming.

    You do realize that there ARE websites which run a professional business with an ethical policy...right?

    I only have one source for anything I buy, solely for this reason. I do NOT support hackers or phishers. There is a reason I do not buy from the cheapest website, or why I never...EVER...buy from those who spam ads in game. (I'm sure those are phishers and hackers, guaranteed, along with most other vendors).

     

    Thank you for being yet another 20-something male who assumes automatically the worse, without knowing any evidence or factual information to form said opinion.

    Ah, assumptions, perhaps the most scientific type of evidence possible.

    orange. how do you know? 

    red. lol, the only thing that ties those people to actually delivering the golds is your credit card company since you can do a charge back if you haven't recieved the product (golds in this case). 

    most of them use your informations and try to breach your ingame account (my friend bought golds an the next day he got hacked, so it was tah-tah money).

    How do you know the food you eat, water you drink, cars you drive, or roads you drive on, are not all tainted by the hands of the mafia?

    How do you know you're not supporting horrible practices and corrupt business ethics (along with hundreds of other ethics violations) when you breath, sneeze, or fart?

     

    Four hands to a barrel, you have absolutely no idea what goes behind getting gas into your car, making your car, fixing the roads, building that turnpike, or even how that brown stained underwear of yours got sown and flown to your western country and into the store where a minimum wage employee sold it to you in a bundle with 9 other pairs.

     

    This is a very weak argument. At least I do my research on products I use or buy. Unfortunately, often we have little choice as sometimes ALL choices are corrupt (like grocery stores Walmart, Target, or any fast food industry which pays its employees pathetically for such hard work and stressful jobs). Fortunately, we have a lot of choices when it comes to gold vendors, and not all of them are corrupt! Hurray for indie business and small businesses!

    That's the thing though, this gold farming bussiness is tainted with these malicious activities. How often do you hear that your baker is being exploited? How often do you hear that the farmers are doing slave labour? Don't you think that if everything was tainted, it would have gotten out?

     

    Just ask yourself this: How can something like these gold farming prison stories get out, in one of the most heavily censored countries? If these stories reach the media, how come you never hear about slave labor in supermarkets?

     

    And additionally, you are comparing food to in-game gold. Can't you see how one is essential while the other is a luxury choice?

    Actually, it not only has gotten out, but there are people and groups which shout loudly to be heard about various forms of abuse. You'd be shocked how much gets tucked under the rug and ignored by the media and populous. Even when people blow their whistles as loud as they can.

    Just because one business is corrupt, or even a hundred, doesn't mean all are. There is a reason I only shop at one vendor, and never even click a link from any other.

    The FOOD I refer to is not the stuff we need to survive (anything edible with some nutrients in it). I am talking about the luxurious food western civilization engulfs and hedonistically consumes (or should I say wastes? lol...) such as restaurants, meat produces by horribly mistreated livestock that end up in grocery stores, etc.

     

    You need to re-think your view on slave-labor. Yes, there is true slave-labor. However, there is also the indentured servitude of western populous, the unlivable wages of so-called minimum wage, the exploited men, women, and families which struggle to get by, and a failing middle class that is exploited by an incredibly unbalanced distribution of wealth.

     

    Do you truly feel it is justified that an employee at McDonalds has to do his awful job, with awful people, serving awful customers...for a wage so low it can't even sustain themselves without assistance?

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    How much can I get for this [soul], on the auction house?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • ElNubreUneroElNubreUnero UhohhPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    How much can I get for this [soul], on the auction house?

    Since everyone is end-game level, it'll be 10k gold.

    It's only actually worth 10 silver (it sells for 5 silver at a vendor) and it's only worthwhile to level 7's, but since everyone has a level 100 alt, it's 10k gold.

     

    What can I say? It's obviously the fault of gold farmers.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    What...oh, yeah, it's Saturday.  Never mind, my bad for poking my nose in this thread.  Forgive me everyone, sorry, sorry.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • ElNubreUneroElNubreUnero UhohhPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas

    I'd like to take a moment and educate some of the community here on what it actually means to buy gold from some asian vendor, and how little of a difference it makes, how it is far from ruining a game, and how much MORE do max-level players ruin the game, economy, etc.

     

    Who am I? Who am I to think I can just buy currency on MMORPG's? I am a hardcore MMORPG veteran I have been playing MMORPG's for longer than some of you have been alive (you're all younger than 14 right? lol jk). I've 'worked' for my ph@t l00tz with more hours grinding than most people have gaming time. For much of my youth, I was extremely hardcore in my MMORPG's. Eventually, I got bored with the grind and decided to spend a few dollars in WoW to make the game more ACCESSIBLE to me. To avoid the boring grind. To achieve the goal: Fun. To eliminate the reason to Alt-F4 and unsub: grindy boredom.

     

     

    I have bought gold. I know people who buy gold. I buy it freely in any game I want to have a lot of gold in. I do not have a guilty conscience. Take WoW for example, which is the game I've bought the most gold in. Am I throwing my money away? Nope, it is actually cheaper to sub a MMORPG and buy tons of gold, than to buy a console game or buy that new game that just released.

    Why do I do it whenever I want? Because it makes the game more fun, equals the playing field when you're new and it's an old game, or it allows access to what you ACTUALLY want to do (have fair fights in PvP, for example).

     

    Even on my richest day, with all the gold combined from all those I know who buy, and all they've ever bought-- it still is nothing compared to most max-level players in WoW. These other players have, and always will have, more gold than I could ever get myself. They farm is the same way chinese players do, they do the same tactics, and repeat the same processes. There are guides littered all over WoW websites on how to min/max the auction house (buy low, sell high) and how you can make tons of gold in just a weeks time.

    A level 1+ player entered WoW PvP (and still does) with a severe disadvantage. Until level 70, this character will pretty much be at the bottom of the totem poll, sometimes being unable to even do damage to their heirloom or twinked enemy. Buying gold can't fix these problems, although it can help a little bit...for about 10 levels, and then the gold runs out.

     

    "I just want a flying mount. I dont want to do boring grind for it." So why should a player be forced to? By spending a few dollars, they can have access to what they want in a video game. They can fulfill the REASON they're playing: fun.

     

    For every reason people claim those who buy gold "ruin the game for everyone", they fail to realize how end-game is 100x worse than anything a gold buyer could ever do.

     

    Ask me anything.

    Ok, heres a few questions

    1. Why are you trying so hard to justify yourself .

    I am not trying to justify myself, and have no need to. I am replying to everyone here, giving them equal attention. If someone wants to post, I will give them a reply. Hence why I started the thread: to talk to people.

    If you believe I am trying at all to justify myself, you are delusional, drowning in assumptions and a perverse lens of what is actually happening in reality. Perhaps this lens is perverted by a desire for some form of entertainment? Bored of the forums perhaps and couldn't find a better topic? Heh, been there, done that :P goodluck if that's the case. If not, since I don't make assumptions, simply retry reading my posts. If someone wants to make a claim, I will explain to them the required information to either debunk their assumption or provide a rebuttal so we can actually have real reasoning and debate...as opposed to mass assumption and total denial of the real reason in-game economies suck: max level players farming billions of gold en mass, twinking low level alts with high level gold, and inflation caused by the gap in LEVELS and the fact gold is granted to higher levels at an astounding pace over lower levels.

    2. Isn't it true that a "fair fight" is one you stand a chance of winning because you paid RL cash to beat your opponent.

    A fair fight in my definition is two equally matched characters. This means equal level, gear, etc. Gold buyers have a significant disadvantage, as high level heirloom PvPers in WoW will always have an advantage. Fortunately, gold buying evens the playing field far more than what a player can obtain pathetically through spending silver.

    Why? Mostly because the AH caters to high level players, and all low level items are dramatically inflated. Why? Not gold buyers. But because high level players make a ridiculous amount of gold, and low level players do not. Even if a green item is on the AH for 1 gold, a level 10 player will not have enough to purchase it, despite it being a level 9 item. Inflation caused solely by end-game max level players.

    3. Isn't it true that you think you like MMORPG's when in fact you should be playing MOBA's without the character development aspect you pay to avoid.

     I play all genres, and typically am very good at them. I only mention that to give evidence that I fully enjoy all genres. (If I were bad at a genre, I might not enjoy playing it...although I actually don't know how I'd feel, being unable to be bad due to how long I've been gaming...)

    edit: as you seem so fond of age, I am 41 and have been gaming since 1978 when I had a Mattel intellivision.

    Age is not very important, as most of the kids I meet in MMORPG's are actually fully grown adults. Perhaps you should read more closely, or realize that "age" doesn't necessarily mean the amount of years one has lived, but perhaps extends to mean a concept that assumes a variety of traits, facts, and measurable information.

    The simple fact you are 41 is well appreciated, as even a troll-post done by an older adult is far far more mature in thought and rational than a 20-something or teenager. (Not all the time, but more often than not!)

    That isn't to say that teenagers cannot be more mature than even mature adults, but that this case is not common at all.

     

    I've been around long enough to be trolled by everyone, argue with the best, and PvP among kings. (WTF? kings? Idk, but it sounded good.) Even when irrational, stupid, illogical, trolling, or absolutely insane-- people are far more rational, intelligent, and mature post 23. This is actually due to the fact the human brain doesn't develop until the middle to late 20's.

    You'd be surprised at the differences in mind processing between a 22 year old and a 23 year old (on average). When you study people, you can readily see the difference in how people's mind works...how they form thoughts...their logic...how rational they are when thinking...

     

    Even if I dislike you, I have to admit that it's quite obvious you are not a 20-something or teenager. Even if you were to say the same things, you do it in an entirely different manner.

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,678Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    What...oh, yeah, it's Saturday.  Never mind, my bad for poking my nose in this thread.  Forgive me everyone, sorry, sorry.

    image

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • OmnifishOmnifish LondonPosts: 616Member
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by Omnifish

    Hmmm...

    Most of that gold you buy, isn't from hardworking fellows grinding for it, it's from account steals.

    Here's how it works: Player A on server B buys gold from Suppiler C.  Supplier C never keeps gold on any characters, or has tons of people working on it.  What they do have is lists of people who ordered gold before, through their site and their servers and most importantly emails.  They'll then try and find one for Server B and use the login details that person uses for their site as a WoW login, (most people use the same login details).

    The other angle and the more despicable side is guild site farming.  So if we take the scenerio from before, the suppiler will start looking for guilds on server B. When he's found some, he'll go to there guildsites, he'll grab all of the email address of the directory, (which isn't difficult to do), put together a phising mail and start sending them out hoping to get lucky, i.e. that someone will either give the password or try and login to a premade phising site which spits out the login details to notepad.

    In both cases the objective is to strip the stolen account of assets to then supply Player A with the gold they ordered.

    I don't know if you work for these companies or if you genuinely are someone whose bought gold and never thought about it from another perspective, but whatever justification you give to yourself you are benefiting from stealing. 

    If you actually knew about obtaining gold, then you would know you get far more gold grinding and multi-boxing for hours on end, than trying a resource-heavy, low-gold-getting, account phishing process.

    A steady form of multi-box grind can give you quite a lot of gold. A lot more than hacking and selling crappy accounts.

     

    I imagine you are only pretending to know how it works, based on random assumptions and bits of pieces of non-info you found on poorly written forum posts from others who have the same evidence-gathering skills as yourself.

     

    What's even more sad is how you completely ignore the main purpose of the OP argument. High level players grinding for gold en mass destroys economy and gameplay far far greater than a minute amount of botters ever will.

    Hillarious.

    You clearly have no idea how to make any money in a game like WoW, (and why would you? You buy all your gold).  Multiboxing is poor compared to playing the markets and carving a niche for yourself as a supplier.  That's not the issue here though.

     'High level players grinding for money sinks, (put in by a developer), are terrible for an in game economy', where said developer can create money at a whim and it's completely player driven?

    See the problem there? If someone like you buy gold on mass and pay stupid prices for things, prices go up.  Which screws up everyone else because it's an artifical inflation. I get it, your selfish, you don't give a shit as long as you get a shiny.  But you may do, if your short a month or your buddy in China can't strip an account dry for you.

    I'd imagine your either an employee for one of these companies or your just a clueless jobby who thinks he knows better then everyone whose been around this industry for a little while.  

    How do I know this? Because I used to work for one of the biggest companies in this, 'industry', so I know pretty much all of the methods and pretty much all of them are shitty. Some companies do grind the gold, but those are shifty at best, (terrible conditions for workers, long hours etc), and even they use account hacks as well. I know this because I've been to these places.

    Nice try but you picked the wrong target.

     

     

    This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  • ElNubreUneroElNubreUnero UhohhPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    What...oh, yeah, it's Saturday.  Never mind, my bad for poking my nose in this thread.  Forgive me everyone, sorry, sorry.

    The more people in the thread, the more likely there will be rational minds and reasonable thinking.

     

    As opposed to all of the kids stuck at Level 2 in moral development.

    Man, those last 2 levels are such a grind...

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    How much can I get for this [soul], on the auction house?

    Since everyone is end-game level, it'll be 10k gold.

    It's only actually worth 10 silver (it sells for 5 silver at a vendor) and it's only worthwhile to level 7's, but since everyone has a level 100 alt, it's 10k gold.

     

    What can I say? It's obviously the fault of gold farmers.

    Can't believe I'm wasting my time replying to you again but here goes my last attempt at helping you out.

    Lets take FFXI for example, bots camp and farm NM's. This for 1) Deprives normal players from the opportunity of killing and getting the rare item that can drop and 2) Makes the gold sellers the only source of the item.  Since they are the only source they charge out rageous prices.

    Now if you are half as intellegent as you think you are you can clearly see how this is a problem for players. Bots controlled by RMT groups you are advocating destroyed the economy in that game beyond repair.

    They do this sort of tactic in one shape or form in every game they infest. This is on top of the phishing scams and account hacks.

     

    Everything that happens has an effect on the things around it whether it is a major or minor effect it has an effect.

    Look at GW2, the bots have caused the developers to turn up the DR system which in turns effects and hampers the enjoyment of normal players. Look at fishing in FFXI, the bots caused the developers to randomly spawn higher level mobs in areas that people fished in which made it so you had to be certain levels to fish in certain areas.

     

    Gold sellers have a negative impact on a game whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant because this is a fact. Supporting these gold sellers makes you part of the problem.

     

    If you aren't a kid sit back and take a look at the big picture. Look beyond your nose and think about all the other players being affected by gold sellers and bots. I can sit here for hours listing off all the games that have been negatively affected by gold sellers even just in terms of their bots.

     

     

  • ElNubreUneroElNubreUnero UhohhPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by Omnifish
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by Omnifish

    Hmmm...

    Most of that gold you buy, isn't from hardworking fellows grinding for it, it's from account steals.

    Here's how it works: Player A on server B buys gold from Suppiler C.  Supplier C never keeps gold on any characters, or has tons of people working on it.  What they do have is lists of people who ordered gold before, through their site and their servers and most importantly emails.  They'll then try and find one for Server B and use the login details that person uses for their site as a WoW login, (most people use the same login details).

    The other angle and the more despicable side is guild site farming.  So if we take the scenerio from before, the suppiler will start looking for guilds on server B. When he's found some, he'll go to there guildsites, he'll grab all of the email address of the directory, (which isn't difficult to do), put together a phising mail and start sending them out hoping to get lucky, i.e. that someone will either give the password or try and login to a premade phising site which spits out the login details to notepad.

    In both cases the objective is to strip the stolen account of assets to then supply Player A with the gold they ordered.

    I don't know if you work for these companies or if you genuinely are someone whose bought gold and never thought about it from another perspective, but whatever justification you give to yourself you are benefiting from stealing. 

    If you actually knew about obtaining gold, then you would know you get far more gold grinding and multi-boxing for hours on end, than trying a resource-heavy, low-gold-getting, account phishing process.

    A steady form of multi-box grind can give you quite a lot of gold. A lot more than hacking and selling crappy accounts.

     

    I imagine you are only pretending to know how it works, based on random assumptions and bits of pieces of non-info you found on poorly written forum posts from others who have the same evidence-gathering skills as yourself.

     

    What's even more sad is how you completely ignore the main purpose of the OP argument. High level players grinding for gold en mass destroys economy and gameplay far far greater than a minute amount of botters ever will.

    Hillarious.

    You clearly have no idea how to make any money in a game like WoW, (and why would you? You buy all your gold).  Multiboxing is poor compared to playing the markets and carving a niche for yourself as a supplier.  That's not the issue here though.

     'High level players grinding for money sinks, (put in by a developer), are terrible for an in game economy', where said developer can create money at a whim and it's completely player driven?

    See the problem there? If someone like you buy gold on mass and pay stupid prices for things, prices go up.  Which screws up everyone else because it's an artifical inflation. I get it, your selfish, you don't give a shit as long as you get a shiny.  But you may do, if your short a month or your buddy in China can't strip an account dry for you.

    I'd imagine your either an employee for one of these companies or your just a clueless jobby who thinks he knows better then everyone whose been around this industry for a little while.  

    How do I know this? Because I used to work for one of the biggest companies in this, 'industry', so I know pretty much all of the methods and pretty much all of them are shitty. Some companies do grind the gold, but those are shifty at best, (terrible conditions for workers, long hours etc), and even they use account hacks as well. I know this because I've been to these places.

    Nice try but you picked the wrong target.

    Do you know how to read? I have quite a few posts here, including ones which mention working the AH for thousands of gold a week.

    I wanted to give you another try, and then read how you think I pay stupid prices for things. You are completely ignorant of the posts where I repeatedly stated I am very wise with the gold I buy, and never buy anything ridiculously priced. Then you pretend as if the actual facts...the real problem....max level players farming gold for low level twinks or leveling alts...well...you pretend those facts were never stated. Your argument is so weak...after two horrendously inaccurate assumptions proven completely false by previously stated information...

    I stopped reading after this, as your assumption that I "dont know how it works" and "pay stupid prices for things" are extremely....extremely wrong, and your first rebuttal to prove your assumption is completely false. Do you even realize that people buy gold BECAUSE prices are ALREADY ridiculously high? This is not caused by others buying gold...it's caused by high level players and their ability to harvest thousands of gold readily and easily, and new players being able to accumulate the same amount in COPPER.

    Before you argue with the big boys, please learn to read. At the very least, skim through the thread before making yourself look silly...

     

    I'll let you do your homework like a kid: How long would it take a level 1 character to get 100 gold? How long would it take a level 90?

    Once you answer this question for yourself, you will find out quickly the actual reason inflation occurs, and how gold farming has little to deal with inflation in a game like World of Warcraft.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Damn it seems that OP is in serious need of justifying and reassuring himself.    

  • ElNubreUneroElNubreUnero UhohhPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    How much can I get for this [soul], on the auction house?

    Since everyone is end-game level, it'll be 10k gold.

    It's only actually worth 10 silver (it sells for 5 silver at a vendor) and it's only worthwhile to level 7's, but since everyone has a level 100 alt, it's 10k gold.

     

    What can I say? It's obviously the fault of gold farmers.

    Can't believe I'm wasting my time replying to you again but here goes my last attempt at helping you out.

    Lets take FFXI for example, bots camp and farm NM's. This for 1) Deprives normal players from the opportunity of killing and getting the rare item that can drop and 2) Makes the gold sellers the only source of the item.  Since they are the only source they charge out rageous prices.

    Now if you are half as intellegent as you think you are you can clearly see how this is a problem for players. Bots controlled by RMT groups you are advocating destroyed the economy in that game beyond repair.

    They do this sort of tactic in one shape or form in every game they infest. This is on top of the phishing scams and account hacks.

     

    Everything that happens has an effect on the things around it whether it is a major or minor effect it has an effect.

    Look at GW2, the bots have caused the developers to turn up the DR system which in turns effects and hampers the enjoyment of normal players. Look at fishing in FFXI, the bots caused the developers to randomly spawn higher level mobs in areas that people fished in which made it so you had to be certain levels to fish in certain areas.

     

    Gold sellers have a negative impact on a game whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant because this is a fact. Supporting these gold sellers makes you part of the problem.

     

    If you aren't a kid sit back and take a look at the big picture. Look beyond your nose and think about all the other players being affected by gold sellers and bots. I can sit here for hours listing off all the games that have been negatively affected by gold sellers even just in terms of their bots.

    That is all well and good...if we were talking about GW2 or FFXI where there is apparently an open world with mobs who drop items which bots hog from real players.

    Unfortunately for you, we're talking about WoW. We have been this entire time, and the game where gold is bought is WoW.

     

    Ironically, I actually had the line "Game of Topic: World of Warcraft" in the OP, but had taken it out before posting because it didnt fit nicely inbetween the first few paragraphs.

     

    Take a look at the bigger picture: High Level Players destroy the economy far more than gold farmers ever will.

     

    Why do you refuse to acknowledge the fact a Level 1 would take an eternity to get 100 gold, while a level 90 can get it incredibly fast? Take a look at quest rewards for a level 1 and compare it to a quest reward for a max level character. See the difference? Now go to the AH and see the level 9 item for 1-5 gold? INCREDIBLY cheap for most players. But for the REAL level 9's, it is impossible to achieve without buying gold.

    The argument isn't even so much about if gold farmers are positive or negative to an economy. The argument is far more focused on the overwhelming reality that hundreds of thousands of max level players and an endless supply of virtual currency is far, far, far more destructive to the economy than a few hundred gold vendors.

     

  • ElNubreUneroElNubreUnero UhohhPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by fenistil

    Damn it seems that OP is in serious need of justifying and reassuring himself.    

    Don't quit your day job, and please never get into the field of Psychology.

    Assumptions have no place in the scientific community, and childish remarks only make you look as foolish as your assumptions.

     

    Troll less please, and actually contribute something real to this thread. I implore you...please contribute something besides ignorant, incorrect assumptions that let you feel a slight boost in your overblown or underdeveloped ego.

  • ElNubreUneroElNubreUnero UhohhPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by Cabaloc
    It just shows you are easily defeated, like the sports star who needs performance enhancing injections . The game is to hard, tough for him so he needs to bend the rules to ensure his victory . Nothing wrong with buying gold if it makes it more fun for you but you can never compete on my level after all what I find fun is the challenge that comes my way . Oh sorry I don't have any questions .

    Easily defeated in a PvE game?

    The game is too hard? The game is World of Warcraft. That game isn't too hard for a 6 year old. It isn't hard for ANYONE. Boring? Can be, especially if you have to grind.

    Compete on your level? Not only could I compete on your level, I would most likely utterly destroy you due to the number of hours I have in gaming (any genre, I promise you.)

     

    I do not understand all of the people I meet who talk about "playing to win", "true competition", or those who boast about "their level" of play. I have never been impressed with these types, and although they seem competant in their genre of choice, they are typically easily defeated with a yawn.

     

    UNLESS the competition is on who can grind for longer, as my patience for grindy boredom is probably much lower than yours. So if the competition is about who can withstand boredom for longer, you'd smoke me hands down, because I wouldn't even compete.

    I always like to throw a bone and humble people who talk big, so I will more than happily pick a game, any genre, any game, and duel you or match you in it. Why? I have nothing to prove (I already know I'm better than most, and the few better than me, I wouldnt care if I lost to them, as they will always exist and be better than me.) But I am fascinated by people who talk like you do. People who talk about competition, and hold it as important to themselves. I like to know why, what happens when they win, lose, or tie. I am fascinated by people I don't understand, so it would be fun to duel you and fascinating to humble ANYONE who believes they are on a "special level".

    Why? Perhaps because I am on a "special level" and top charts in any game I play, finding very few people who can beat me when it comes down to player skill. Yet I don't feel like I'm on a level so high up "no one can be at my level." I don't feel like I am special. I don't feel like I am on a "special level". (Claiming to be on one doesn't mean I feel like I am on one. I dont feel anything really, except boredom when the competition is too easy, or frustration when it is impossibly hard.)  I don't talk like that. I don't boast unless it's to imply evidence to support an argument or defend against assumptions (so that conversation and debate can speed up and skip irrational assumptions like someone saying "You're only complaining about [feature] because you suck at PvP." Well...we can skip that entire argument by me speaking of the fact I'm amazing at PvP. No argument to hold back real debate, so that person can then state an actual reason I am complaining, and inspire me to form a rebuttal!)

     

    How would I compete on your level? What does it mean? What level are you on? Why is your level special? Different? Does it make you feel special?

  • IfrianMMOIfrianMMO BarcelonaPosts: 212Member

    While i am generally against gold selling/ buying, i have to agree that in WoW, a few economist players screw up the economy way more than gold sellers ever will.

    My server´s economy is pretty much controlled by an ex-irl friend of mine, who works in the economy sector irl, and whose take on the game is pretty much to control, monopolize and play with the gold and resources trading, and has so much gold, that she is probably WAY richer than any gold selling company has ever been in total.

    She´s even got to have multiple accounts to control the whole thing since she coulnd´t possibly do it with just one.

    While this particular situation may be a bit extreme and may not be the case in every server out there, most of the biggest, most populated servers ARE controlled by likeminded individuals or even guilds that do absurds amount of cash and make it impossible for anyone else to compete in the field or have any fair transaction on stuff that matters.

    That is not to say that gold buying/selling is the ideal solution and i do not do it myself, i prefer to be poor, but it´s true that the situation is far from normal when it comes to the economy of the servers, and that the gold sellers are barely to blame for it.

     

    image
  • ElNubreUneroElNubreUnero UhohhPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by IfrianMMO

    While i am generally against gold selling/ buying, i have to agree that in WoW, a few economist players screw up the economy way more than gold sellers ever will.

    My server´s economy is pretty much controlled by an ex-irl friend of mine, who works in the economy sector irl, and whose take on the game is pretty much to control, monopolize and play with the gold and resources trading, and has so much gold, that she is probably WAY richer than any gold selling company has ever been in total.

    She´s even got to have multiple accounts to control the whole thing since she coulnd´t possibly do it with just one.

    While this particular situation may be a bit extreme and may not be the case in every server out there, most of the biggest, most populated servers ARE controlled by likeminded individuals or even guilds that do absurds amount of cash and make it impossible for anyone else to compete in the field or have any fair transaction on stuff that matters.

    That is not to say that gold buying/selling is the ideal solution and i do not do it myself, i prefer to be poor, but it´s true that the situation is far from normal when it comes to the economy of the servers, and that the gold sellers are barely to blame for it.

    Oh dear god....an intelligent reply...holy...guacamole...

     

    I'm done here. I finally had someone who wasn't a troll, kid, or total simpleton actually reply to the OP. /Thread

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    How much can I get for this [soul], on the auction house?

    Since everyone is end-game level, it'll be 10k gold.

    It's only actually worth 10 silver (it sells for 5 silver at a vendor) and it's only worthwhile to level 7's, but since everyone has a level 100 alt, it's 10k gold.

     

    What can I say? It's obviously the fault of gold farmers.

    Can't believe I'm wasting my time replying to you again but here goes my last attempt at helping you out.

    Lets take FFXI for example, bots camp and farm NM's. This for 1) Deprives normal players from the opportunity of killing and getting the rare item that can drop and 2) Makes the gold sellers the only source of the item.  Since they are the only source they charge out rageous prices.

    Now if you are half as intellegent as you think you are you can clearly see how this is a problem for players. Bots controlled by RMT groups you are advocating destroyed the economy in that game beyond repair.

    They do this sort of tactic in one shape or form in every game they infest. This is on top of the phishing scams and account hacks.

     

    Everything that happens has an effect on the things around it whether it is a major or minor effect it has an effect.

    Look at GW2, the bots have caused the developers to turn up the DR system which in turns effects and hampers the enjoyment of normal players. Look at fishing in FFXI, the bots caused the developers to randomly spawn higher level mobs in areas that people fished in which made it so you had to be certain levels to fish in certain areas.

     

    Gold sellers have a negative impact on a game whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant because this is a fact. Supporting these gold sellers makes you part of the problem.

     

    If you aren't a kid sit back and take a look at the big picture. Look beyond your nose and think about all the other players being affected by gold sellers and bots. I can sit here for hours listing off all the games that have been negatively affected by gold sellers even just in terms of their bots.

    That is all well and good...if we were talking about GW2 or FFXI where there is apparently an open world with mobs who drop items which bots hog from real players.

    Unfortunately for you, we're talking about WoW. We have been this entire time, and the game where gold is bought is WoW.

     

    Ironically, I actually had the line "Game of Topic: World of Warcraft" in the OP, but had taken it out before posting because it didnt fit nicely inbetween the first few paragraphs.

     

    Take a look at the bigger picture: High Level Players destroy the economy far more than gold farmers ever will.

     

    Why do you refuse to acknowledge the fact a Level 1 would take an eternity to get 100 gold, while a level 90 can get it incredibly fast? Take a look at quest rewards for a level 1 and compare it to a quest reward for a max level character. See the difference? Now go to the AH and see the level 9 item for 1-5 gold? INCREDIBLY cheap for most players. But for the REAL level 9's, it is impossible to achieve without buying gold.

    The argument isn't even so much about if gold farmers are positive or negative to an economy. The argument is far more focused on the overwhelming reality that hundreds of thousands of max level players and an endless supply of virtual currency is far, far, far more destructive to the economy than a few hundred gold vendors.

     

    I don't play WoW, I simply pointed out these gold sellers that are "only using bots" according to you are still hurting others. It's obvious you don't care. Thats fine, as I said it was my last attempt to explain things to you. You obviously aren't old enough to understand or care yet. Thats fine, but I wish you luck and when you get banned or get your account hacked or stolen do me a favor and please don't whine and moan about it on the forums here.

    Take care and good luck to you, going to return you to blocked now.

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk LiverpoolPosts: 976Member Uncommon

    While I can agree that max level chars farming items and playing on the AH can and does lead to inflated prices for lower level items, causing problems in a games economy, I have to disagree with the OP's comments on how little buying gold damages a game.

    The OP, in his replies to people, makes a point that he buys from a reliable and game-friendly source that gathers it's gold in a way that doesn't resort to hacking accounts. However, the original post clearly mentions "some asian gold seller". I think it's widely known that these "asian" gold selling companies are also the ones responsible for hacked accounts and rampant botting. Regardless of the consequences to a games economy, be they minimal or extensive, I don't think anyone would support this kind of behaviour.

    People having their accounts hacked so gold sellers can profit from their loss is a bad thing, period.

    People who buy gold from gold sellers, regardless of that sellers morals or methods of gold acquisition, create a market for gold sellers to operate in, thus encouraging the less scrupulous gold sellers who hack and steal accounts from legitimate players.

    No matter which way you spin it, buying gold leads to accounts being hacked. You, OP, may in fact buy your gold from a seller that doesn't operate in this way, but you still contribute to the problem by creating a demand for in-game gold that other companies supply through account hacks and botting.

    I don't really care how much it affects the economy of the game. I'm far more concerned with the thousands of players who log in to find their characters stripped and their bank emptied, or the ones who find they can't even log in at all until the support team get around to recovering their account - and then find all their items and gold missing.

    I understand exactly what you're trying to say, and I agree with it with regards to the game economy. It's the misery inflicted on hacked players that I find is the real problem with creating a market for in-game gold. Where you buy your gold from is irrelevant because for every gold seller out there that sells gold from "legitimate" sources, there are 10 others who get it by stealing it from some poor schmuk.

This discussion has been closed.