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"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Originally posted by Wraithone Originally posted by bunnyhopper Originally posted by SlyLoK Originally posted by xpiher A PvE server would be pointless. Name one reason DFO would be fun to play PvE only? The entire core of the game is built around PvP. You would have to develope a completely different game to make PvE only viable.
I would try the game if it had a PvE server and I am probably not the only one..
UO is still going because of Trammel after all.
In spite of Trammel you mean.
No. Having been in UO pre Trammel, the ganking and griefing was getting way out of hand. Lots of people leaving, really forced their hand. Absent Trammel, I doubt UO would still be in operation. The modern western audience has changed. The majority will not tolerate a game that allows (let alone encourages) ganking and griefing. That in and of itself, limits such a game to a niche market.
But CCP managed to carve themselves out a nice sized niche by encourging ganking and griefing. Difference is, there are many controls in place that permit a player to manage their level of risk which I'd like to have seen implemented in DF:UW, but it's not to be.
And that's what will likely happen here, this title will cater to a solid niche that is looking for exactly this type game, so it's all good.
Fortunately not every developer sees the need to swing for the fence as it were and try to drag in WOW sized numbers. We can only hope more try to be different in the future.
"Winning" at EVE Online since May, 2007!
In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
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Originally posted by Kyleran Originally posted by Wraithone Originally posted by bunnyhopper Originally posted by SlyLoK Originally posted by xpiher A PvE server would be pointless. Name one reason DFO would be fun to play PvE only? The entire core of the game is built around PvP. You would have to develope a completely different game to make PvE only viable.
But we've both seen the evolution of Concord, and the high sec ROE. They didn't do that because they wanted to (CCP being one of the most rabid pro PvP companies I've seen in a long time ^^). They did it to protect their business model, and to keep as many CareBears as paying customers as possible. You do remember all of the howling about that evolution, from the Usual Suspects, I trust?
Its still a niche, but its one that they have demonstrated is more than profitable for their purposes. But also don't forget that EVE sets the bar for some of the best space themed art assets in the world. They have world class talent doing their ship designs, and also optimization server cluster side.
But as these games get more and more expensive, I doubt we will see many who are willing to take the risks involved. The mixture of funding/talent/experience and timing that made EVE possible, is very rare.
Originally posted by Hairysun Ok, so I was completely opposed to a pve server for DF:UW. Earlier in this thread I even stated that it was like asking Blizzard if WoW would ever have a pvp full loot server. It'll never happen, the developers don't believe that what makes a game good. Thinking on the subject I came to an interesting compromise for everyone. What if they had a server that was PvE on certain days of the week and PvP on others. The PvE-ers could have time to explore, grind out some spells or weapons, craft ... etc. The PvP-ers would have some sheep to slaughter providing the PvE-ers were at a level of skill they felt comfortable giving it a go. Say, on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday Thursday and Sunday, the mixed server would have PvE and consentual PvP. On Friday and Saturday it would be on ..... open PvP with full Loot. They could even mix it up a bit more by doing open PvP but not full loot on some days. I know this goes against the very essence of what Darkfall is. Personally, I am fine with the full loot PvP mechanic, I just know a lot of people wouldn't touch this game with a ten foot pole because of it. Just some thoughts on how to ease people into the brutal world that is Darkfall. It is also entirely possible that this has been mentioned before. I did not read through the whole thread. If so, then ...... carry on. Hairysun
I didn't mention this exactly, but it is what I was explaining more broadly in my posts. A PvE server doesn't need raids. It just has to have a more strict set of PvP rules.
Originally posted by thinktank001 Originally posted by Hairysun
A more strict set of PvP rules for a persistent, open world pvp game. Built by a pvp orientated development team, wishing to create a pvp centric game to cater to a pvp focused subset of the mmo playerbase. With all the major mechanics of said pvp game being interlinked or otherwise dependant upon, pvp.
Yes a PVE server or more restrictive pvp makes perfect sense.
Originally posted by znaiika I would play DUW if it has pve and pvp servers.
Guess you wont be playing
zomg. If you want a lot of pve content within a safe zone, that has meaningful pvp.You are basically describing DAoC. From what little I have read about TESO, it is being made by the original team that developed DAoC and supposedly has the three distinct realms with thier own unique races in a three faction type pvp. AKA Realm Vs Realm. That is most likely the game to follow instead of Darkfall.
I'm gonna play Darkfall because I know that guild/alliance battles/wars with open PvP and no seperate pve sanctum rocks. It sounds like ShadowBane type of play. I'm sick of playing basically solo PvE games.I remember how cool it was in shadowbane to log on at 6est and roll out of your keep with your crew. I think many who are crying for a PvE server are envisioning a typical solo type experiance that all the new games like GW2 are about. In an open pvp game you don't really have to be great at pvp to play. Just show up on time and roll with your group.I usually play support which im good at in these type of games.If your group gets rolled,well at least you aren't in a predicimant by yourself.
If they can implement it properly, WHY NOT!! GO FOR IT AV!
They could even do like mainland PVE and continents PVP, and of course there is clan warfare that can take place anywhere, not to mention sieges. It could work well and it would be popular server, probably more so than PVP server. I hope they do it. I'm definitely not gonna play on it, but whatever brings more people to DF as a whole is a good thing.
Originally posted by Drvanitus If they can implement it properly, WHY NOT!! GO FOR IT AV!
The multiple reasons as to WHY NOT!!? have been stated multiple times throughout this thread.
Originally posted by bunnyhopper Originally posted by Drvanitus If they can implement it properly, WHY NOT!! GO FOR IT AV!
Tell me, how in the world would pve server break your experience on pvp server?
Two separate servers would never interact with each other, like someone said, that would make a whole two different games.
With pve server added, developers would have a lot higher population and be able to pay for maintance.
Originally posted by znaiika Originally posted by bunnyhopper Originally posted by Drvanitus If they can implement it properly, WHY NOT!! GO FOR IT AV!
The reasons are repeated over and over in this thread. I (and others) have pointed out several times now why it is a bad idea.
Each time you get someone new coming in going "oh yeah just whack a pve server, why not!!!!".
Originally posted by ShakyMo Would be cool if someone made a fantasy mmo with a simmilar setup to eve. 1 massive world Varying levels of low sec and high sec Offline skilling
well, #1 and #3 are already in DF. Let's see if they've done anything for #2
Originally posted by ShakyMo It strikes me a pve server for darkfall would be like a pvp server in these raid oriented games like wow, rift, swtor et all. Half arsed, tacked on at the last minute and badly done.
Well stated. Thats *exactly* the problem with most games. In order to appease the bean counters (investors/publisher) they attempt to distort the game into something its not. PvE and PvP require not just different rule sets, but different talent/experience sets as well.
Originally posted by Galadourn Originally posted by ShakyMo Would be cool if someone made a fantasy mmo with a simmilar setup to eve. 1 massive world Varying levels of low sec and high sec Offline skilling
Terrible idea. One of the most frustrating thing's in Eve is that the vast majority of players all hide in virtually zero risk areas. So the amount of players you PvP against is very small compared to the overall numbers. So unless you suicide, like 70% of the player base is untouchable which is silly for a "PvP" game.
Originally posted by CallsignVega Originally posted by Galadourn Originally posted by ShakyMo Would be cool if someone made a fantasy mmo with a simmilar setup to eve. 1 massive world Varying levels of low sec and high sec Offline skilling
Not from a business point of view. Which of course is the objective. That is what is behind the evolution of Concord, and the high sec ROE. As pro PvP as CCP is (which is VERY), they are also realistic enough to understand that they would lose a LOT of money, without Concord and the current high sec rules. To paraphrase Bob; "They may be Care Bears, but their money is still Green"... ^^
I seriously doubt that would work for DF or MO.
Originally posted by Wraithone Originally posted by CallsignVega Originally posted by Galadourn Originally posted by ShakyMo
Indeed, you are right, but I don't think it is even just from a business perspective. CCP did/are trying to build a complex sandbox which caters to a multitude of play types (within the sandbox niche playerbase). Having the game driven by pvp, but also providing high levels of protection (whilst importantly still not making anything 100% safe) makes perfect sense.
Darkfall on the other hand is completely pvp focused. It is a pvp game. It just happens to be in a persistent, open world. And as you say, it really would not suit the EVE model or pve servers as it is not trying to be EVE, nor cater to people not interested in a big old, ffa pvp fest.
honestly i believe they should have a pve server, just so they can have a solid revenue stream to rely on. PVP only games never have a big enough sub base to be able to survive.
Originally posted by bunnyhopper Originally posted by Drvanitus If they can implement it properly, WHY NOT!! GO FOR IT AV!
Originally posted by DavisFlight Originally posted by DAS1337 Originally posted by 123443211234 Sorry to burst your bubble but DF1 did not fail it is stil going. People that seem to want to change the ruleset of DF just don't get we aren't looking for millions of players not even hundreds of thousands just.....thousands of like minded individuals that want to play in a harsh environment where it takes actual skill to survive and thrive. We like our niche game, aren't looking to make bazillions of dollars just a ffa full loot niche game.
It did fail based on what they could have achieved. I am certain that a huge percentage of the people whoe tried DF, have quit. That is a massive failure. When you are in development for as long as DF was and had been released for as long as it is, then the developers decide to scrap their original and create a new game because of how many flaws and mistakes they made, that is a failure. I fail from time to time at things, I don't die from my mistakes, but that doesn't mean they weren't failures. Understand?
It's a niche game and a failure because it could be so much more. I personally believe the PvE server idea is a bag one. However, one of the main reasons that DF is a falure is because they are focusing too much on PvP. Games like UO and SWG survives and thrived because they were more of an open world fantasy simulator than a large PvP arena.
Those two games also had huge teams of experienced developers with big budgets behind them. Darkfall did not.
And a large percentage of people quit EVERY MMO.
I'd hardly call Darkfall a failure considering it made enough profit to raise a second server and hire 30 new devs. You don't do that when you're a "failure".
I don't think it's inaccurate, nor insulting, to say that DF failed to achieve what AV intended it to. I mean, Tasos has pretty much indicated that himself. The fact that they're creating a new game because DF was just "too broken" to be worth fixing, it's pretty hard to argue that it didn't fail on some level. It didn't fail utterly. It's still up and running and playable. But it didn't reach its possible potential, due to myriad mistakes made from very early on, as well as things AV were too slow to address.
That said, I think it would be a mistake and a bad idea to try and split the game up into, essentially, two different games, just to appease a hypothetical population of people who we are supposed to assume would enjoy it enough to make it worthwhile.
If AV was to do that, they would have to commit equally to both games - the PvP and the PvE. Unless they were somehow able to afford the cost of doubling their staff to have a full team working on each version, they would have to split their already small team in half, dividing their efforts. This means neither game would be getting 100% attention it requires and deserves, both versions would suffer. We already see this being the case in other MMOs that have tried to cater to both playstyles. Inevitably, one side or the other complains of being neglected with the other being favored.
Plus, again, Aventurine was formed from the very beginning with the intent of creating an old-school open world MMORPG with FFA PvP and full loot. That was their goal. That's what their time, effort and passion went into doing. It's still what that's all going into doing. It can be argued all day long what a PvE server would or wouldn't do for the game. At the end of the day, I think that's all for naught, because a PvE game just isn't what Aventurine is interested in creating.
There are literally hundreds of MMOs out there catering 100% to PvE content. Some of them are even sandboxy games. DF is one of very few - you can probably count all of them on one hand - that truly cater to the FFA PvP crowd.
AV wants to create an engaging and exciting FFA PvP-enabled MMO experience. 100% of their attention should go into doing so.
Can any of you guys name a sandbox mmo without full loot and no pvp, please.
Because every sandbox game with modern graphics are turned in to a pvp, seriously that make me upset.