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The Coming Twilight of MMOs?

13

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  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOPosts: 4,844Member
    Originally posted by Presbytier
    I have never met a community of gamers more morbidly obsessed with an unfounded belief in their own demise than MMORPG players. I mean seriously I don't get the general doom and gloom MMORPG players posses; sometimes that alon makes me want to quit playing MMORPGs.

     

    I agree.  The negativity in this part of the market amongst the BUYERS is astounding.  Or perhaps it's just the gamers that visit THIS site.  Nonetheless....it doesn't endear me to them or make me WANT to play games with them.  I prefer people who are a bit more positive, proactive, and upbeat, rather than all doom and gloom.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member
    Originally posted by just1opinion
    Originally posted by Presbytier
    I have never met a community of gamers more morbidly obsessed with an unfounded belief in their own demise than MMORPG players. I mean seriously I don't get the general doom and gloom MMORPG players posses; sometimes that alon makes me want to quit playing MMORPGs.

     

    I agree.  The negativity in this part of the market amongst the BUYERS is astounding.  Or perhaps it's just the gamers that visit THIS site.  Nonetheless....it doesn't endear me to them or make me WANT to play games with them.  I prefer people who are a bit more positive, proactive, and upbeat, rather than all doom and gloom.

    You are both confusing realism with negativity, that happens a lot with people who are too optimistic.

     

    The FACT is many big companies have said they will not invest in future MMOs. Many investors have said they would not back future MMOs. Many MMOs, even big scale triple A products by big studios, over the past several years have failed to come close to either expectations or necessary numbers to be called a success.

     

    The MMO genre did peak a while back and it is decreasing while being overly saturated with everyone thinking they can jump in and make WoW money instantly.

     

    I think it is far worse to stick your head in the sand and assume all is well and everything will always just happen and work as opposed to keeping your head up and paying attention to what is going on around you. That is negativity, it is being at least mildly observant.

  • abyss404abyss404 Lemont, ILPosts: 67Member Common
    SOMEONE IS MAKING A TWILIGHT MMO?! AMAZING!
  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
    Originally posted by just1opinion
     

    You are both confusing realism with negativity, that happens a lot with people who are too optimistic.

     

    The FACT is many big companies have said they will not invest in future MMOs. Many investors have said they would not back future MMOs. Many MMOs, even big scale triple A products by big studios, over the past several years have failed to come close to either expectations or necessary numbers to be called a success.

     

    The MMO genre did peak a while back and it is decreasing while being overly saturated with everyone thinking they can jump in and make WoW money instantly.

     

    I think it is far worse to stick your head in the sand and assume all is well and everything will always just happen and work as opposed to keeping your head up and paying attention to what is going on around you. That is negativity, it is being at least mildly observant.

    Please, don't present your opinions or beliefs as a fact. Thank you. You are precisely the type of poster they were talking about.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • GamerUntouchGamerUntouch smithville ON, ONPosts: 488Member
    TES:O will probably be the last.
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,932Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    Certainly not going to be a drought in the next year.  Titan is also on the horizon.

     

    I do think new AAA MMOs are in trouble though.  It's just too expensive and you really need to get so many things right.  They will be released much less frequently in the future until someone blows the lid off and finds a formula to match WOWs ten million players..

    There is no "magic formula" and people should stop trying to find one. One's big success was almost entirely timing based. It was the first MMORPG from a well established dev with a huge fan base and the first one to spend a year on marketing to non MMO players pre launch.

    Once that audience is hooked you can't catch them again. WoW keeps going through momentum, not its "formula". Its Formula is the same as EQ's.

    Let me elaborate. 

     

    Blizzards formula when making WOW was to start with EQ and make it actually fun for most people.  It had a well known IP, solid engine and combat, art that makes the best use of the graphics limitations, well thought out (if heavily borrowed) lore and challenging endgame.  It was soloable and social.

     

    Whoever comes up with the next killer MMO will likely do so by abandoning the fantasy and scifi genres.  It will also probably abandon a lot of the tropes of WOW and WOW clones.  It will be something that appeals to a much larger crowd.  People will look at that game and try to copy their formula just as dozens have tried copying the formula of WOW.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
    Originally posted by just1opinion
     

    You are both confusing realism with negativity, that happens a lot with people who are too optimistic.

     

    The FACT is many big companies have said they will not invest in future MMOs. Many investors have said they would not back future MMOs. Many MMOs, even big scale triple A products by big studios, over the past several years have failed to come close to either expectations or necessary numbers to be called a success.

     

    The MMO genre did peak a while back and it is decreasing while being overly saturated with everyone thinking they can jump in and make WoW money instantly.

     

    I think it is far worse to stick your head in the sand and assume all is well and everything will always just happen and work as opposed to keeping your head up and paying attention to what is going on around you. That is negativity, it is being at least mildly observant.

    Please, don't present your opinions or beliefs as a fact. Thank you. You are precisely the type of poster they were talking about.

    Well sorry but IT IS FACT that big companies have said they are not going to invest in future MMOs. YOU'RE opinions do not negate this fact, please try again. Thank you.

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

    Originally posted by just1opinion
    Originally posted by Presbytier
    I have never met a community of gamers more morbidly obsessed with an unfounded belief in their own demise than MMORPG players. I mean seriously I don't get the general doom and gloom MMORPG players posses; sometimes that alon makes me want to quit playing MMORPGs.

     

    I agree.  The negativity in this part of the market amongst the BUYERS is astounding.  Or perhaps it's just the gamers that visit THIS site.  Nonetheless....it doesn't endear me to them or make me WANT to play games with them.  I prefer people who are a bit more positive, proactive, and upbeat, rather than all doom and gloom.

    You are both confusing realism with negativity, that happens a lot with people who are too optimistic.

     

    The FACT is many big companies have said they will not invest in future MMOs. Many investors have said they would not back future MMOs. Many MMOs, even big scale triple A products by big studios, over the past several years have failed to come close to either expectations or necessary numbers to be called a success.

     

    The MMO genre did peak a while back and it is decreasing while being overly saturated with everyone thinking they can jump in and make WoW money instantly.

     

    I think it is far worse to stick your head in the sand and assume all is well and everything will always just happen and work as opposed to keeping your head up and paying attention to what is going on around you. That is negativity, it is being at least mildly observant.

     

    I hope you're not trying to make the case here that there isn't a whole lot of negativity going around here on this site, far more than average? Personally I think it's easily explainable, mmorpg.com is sort of a resort for many embittered and maybe jaded 1st generation MMO gamers and hardcore sandbox fans who can't enjoy other types of MMO's: those are the groups most left in the cold right now, since many of them have no MMO to play and have fun in anyway and they're not yet prepared to say their final goodbyes to MMO's and everything related to it, only thing left to them is visit MMO sites like this one and complain about how the MMO genre sucks and they're not having fun.

    So no wonder that there's more negativity than what's common going around on a site like this. Also not that strange a behaviour, many women do it intuitively too, complaining about the negative stuff in their life against their friends or partners, it's quite therapeutic (a bit generalising here, but not much).


    @just1opinion: yeah, that's kinda the reason I didn't have the slightest intention to join an mmorpg.com guild when I saw the announcement of it for some MMO's. I could stomach the complaining from my gf when needed, but if I had a co-worker that'd whine as frequently and incessantly as I see happen on these forums sometimes, I think I'd be ready to stump his head in after a month, a guild with a whole bunch of them... it'd seem the equivalent of waterboarding >.>




    As for the MMO market, nothing that odd: we've seen it with the internet hype, web 2.0, etc etc: it was to be suspected that a soapbubble'd arise after WoW's megasuccess, also that the bubble'd burst. All predictable. World goes on, MMO's too. Even more, the crop of MMO's of this year and the next few years show altogether more variety and differentiation in the top segment than in the many years before.
  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
    Originally posted by just1opinion
     

    You are both confusing realism with negativity, that happens a lot with people who are too optimistic.

     

    The FACT is many big companies have said they will not invest in future MMOs. Many investors have said they would not back future MMOs. Many MMOs, even big scale triple A products by big studios, over the past several years have failed to come close to either expectations or necessary numbers to be called a success.

     

    The MMO genre did peak a while back and it is decreasing while being overly saturated with everyone thinking they can jump in and make WoW money instantly.

     

    I think it is far worse to stick your head in the sand and assume all is well and everything will always just happen and work as opposed to keeping your head up and paying attention to what is going on around you. That is negativity, it is being at least mildly observant.

    Please, don't present your opinions or beliefs as a fact. Thank you. You are precisely the type of poster they were talking about.

    Well sorry but IT IS FACT that big companies have said they are not going to invest in future MMOs. YOU'RE opinions do not negate this fact, please try again. Thank you.

    Generalizations are always wrong....

    image


    image

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Ozivois

    SOE is working on "EQ Next", Blizzard working on "Titan" and then you have Funcom and Trion doing some great work I think we will have plenty off MMO to come.

     

     

     

    I don't call a singleplayer game with a monthly fee and a carbon copy WoW clone being "great work". And all the games you mentioned cater to ONE type of gamer, the themepark, singleplayer centric, casual gamer. Nothing for core MMORPG gamers or sandbox fans, really?

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Ozivois SOE is working on "EQ Next", Blizzard working on "Titan" and then you have Funcom and Trion doing some great work I think we will have plenty off MMO to come.      
    I don't call a singleplayer game with a monthly fee and a carbon copy WoW clone being "great work". And all the games you mentioned cater to ONE type of gamer, the themepark, singleplayer centric, casual gamer. Nothing for core MMORPG gamers or sandbox fans, really?


    Is "core" the same thing as, "small, vocal group of players who haven't bought any new MMORPG in about 6 years"? I think to be a core MMORPG player, you have to actually be playing MMORPG and even paying for at least one.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,229Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Ozivois

    SOE is working on "EQ Next", Blizzard working on "Titan" and then you have Funcom and Trion doing some great work I think we will have plenty off MMO to come.

     

     

     

    I don't call a singleplayer game with a monthly fee and a carbon copy WoW clone being "great work". And all the games you mentioned cater to ONE type of gamer, the themepark, singleplayer centric, casual gamer. Nothing for core MMORPG gamers or sandbox fans, really?

     

    Oh Please, you guys have plenty. Look at all the FFA Forum PvP you have at your disposal with no cost. Internet Forums are your MMO. Think of it like a massive browser text based game.

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    Lol, someone used the 'true Scotsman' fallacy. Heh, had to happen some time, I guess.

    'Yeah, but those millions of MMORPG gamers that have been playing MMO's for the past years and that are having fun while I haven't been playing or having fun, aren't CORE MMO gamers'


    ^_^
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by smh_alot
    Lol, someone used the 'true Scotsman' fallacy. Heh, had to happen some time, I guess.
    'Yeah, but those millions of MMORPG gamers that have been playing MMO's for the past years and that are having fun while I haven't been playing or having fun, aren't CORE MMO gamers'

    They estupidos and some kind of commie sympathizers, too..supporting these lame product, they are the enemy!

    Sounds kind of like what you'd hear on the floor of the opposing party's political convention...the arguments are similiar too.

    Meanwhile, back to that game I'm enjoying.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • ArChWindArChWind Some Place, WIPosts: 626Member Uncommon
    My though and opinion which probably does not matter but I say it anyway.
     
    I don’t think he is far off the mark. Most big companies are looking to make fast turnover now that the big winner has not been dethroned. They are starting to see the light and not spend a four to five year development cost to make a 1 to 2 month profit then have to turn around to support it at a loss. They are seeing a new untapped frontier that has a much higher turn around with a much lower investment and team size.
     
    Even the indie developers are starting to see the light. Many of the old MMO sites and MMO game engine developer sites are dead. MMO based boards are closing. Just look at developers corner here on this site. It use to be rather active. Many of the guys and gals that use to post there are gone. They don’t even post in general anymore. Not very many new gaming sites are sprouting up and older developer sites have a venomous hatred toward MMO design game discussion.
     
    It has been a clear message by the game community that high end graphics, bug free programming and lots and more of lots of content are MUST on release so many won’t chance investment in anyone outside of KNOWN circle of developers, who are beginning to cringe at the words Massively Multiplayer Online.
     
    Sadly, the few indies left are making small worlds with little content to maybe inspire a following but yet they are missing the mark and making games that copy in one form or another what already exist and have much greater content anyway so the chance of success is very very slim.
     
    Bottom line is that one has to be a bit eccentric to even consider a MMO now days when iPhone and iPad games can be made fast and actually make money.
     
    Maybe the future will bring in a new genre of games but they probably be from the eastern parts of the world where MMOS are thriving.
  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Ozivois

    SOE is working on "EQ Next", Blizzard working on "Titan" and then you have Funcom and Trion doing some great work I think we will have plenty off MMO to come.

     

     

     

    I don't call a singleplayer game with a monthly fee and a carbon copy WoW clone being "great work". And all the games you mentioned cater to ONE type of gamer, the themepark, singleplayer centric, casual gamer. Nothing for core MMORPG gamers or sandbox fans, really?

     

    What do you mean by "core MMORPG gamers"? Plus you have no idea what EQN or Titan will be like, I agree on the other two however.

  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Centreville, VAPosts: 1,690Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Originally posted by Ozivois SOE is working on "EQ Next", Blizzard working on "Titan" and then you have Funcom and Trion doing some great work I think we will have plenty off MMO to come.      
    I don't call a singleplayer game with a monthly fee and a carbon copy WoW clone being "great work". And all the games you mentioned cater to ONE type of gamer, the themepark, singleplayer centric, casual gamer. Nothing for core MMORPG gamers or sandbox fans, really?

    Is "core" the same thing as, "small, vocal group of players who haven't bought any new MMORPG in about 6 years"? I think to be a core MMORPG player, you have to actually be playing MMORPG and even paying for at least one.

     

    ^This made me laugh hard :). I think the biggest issue is that there is no commitment anymore from players to stick with game when it has some flaws. Players are impatient. Long time ago...  players were commited to one game no matter if it had bugs. Now they jump like butterflies. That does not make it promissing for a future of the gentre.

    image
    Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
    Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
    Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Edmonton, ABPosts: 793Member

    Meh, it is what it is. I'm over the pipe dream of an MMO built on persistence, community, living worlds and interesting things to do other than KILLKILLKILL. I'll play GW2 until I'm tired of WvW and give up on the genre for another 3-4 years until WoD and ArcheAge are on the shelves and give those a try. No sense on dwelling on the things I can't control.

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    People kept to titles "back then" because there were few choices. Now those games are "old" or have changed and the new ones don't have a design conducive with what we had seen "back then". Likely though this was due to the players making up for the lack of technology the new games have and now the slider is on the other side social wise.

    At least that's the way I see it. Solution? Give us gamers that don't want everything scripted and fully crafted by hand a big open world with a lot of tools to play with. You can go back to burning down carbon copy themeparks one after another. Lol, I kid but I do think a change is on the wind. For the better of everyone.

    Oh and WoW is the exeption, not the rule. Take that one game out of the picture and standard themeparks look pretty dismal.
  • David_LopanDavid_Lopan Madison, WIPosts: 811Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Presbytier
    I have never met a community of gamers more morbidly obsessed with an unfounded belief in their own demise than MMORPG players. I mean seriously I don't get the general doom and gloom MMORPG players posses; sometimes that alon makes me want to quit playing MMORPGs.

       +1

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by NaughtyP

     No sense on dwelling on the things I can't control.

    Are you sure?  I mean, the forum's overall theme seems to consist entirely of dwelling on the past.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • crack_foxcrack_fox WellingtonPosts: 402Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Is "core" the same thing as, "small, vocal group of players who haven't bought any new MMORPG in about 6 years"? I think to be a core MMORPG player, you have to actually be playing MMORPG and even paying for at least one.

     

     

    I haven't bought any new MMORPG in about 6 years. Can't quite recall what the last one was: AoC or LoTRO. Anyway, I no longer consider myself an active MMORPG player, but I do retain a passing interest in the genre. I don't believe that I represent a particularly vocal and negative sub-group. It's quite clear to me that those who moan most loudly about the latest AAA flop are those who have actually bought/subscribed to the game and who - by your definition - can consider themselves to be "core" players.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Originally posted by Ozivois SOE is working on "EQ Next", Blizzard working on "Titan" and then you have Funcom and Trion doing some great work I think we will have plenty off MMO to come.      
    I don't call a singleplayer game with a monthly fee and a carbon copy WoW clone being "great work". And all the games you mentioned cater to ONE type of gamer, the themepark, singleplayer centric, casual gamer. Nothing for core MMORPG gamers or sandbox fans, really?

    Is "core" the same thing as, "small, vocal group of players who haven't bought any new MMORPG in about 6 years"? I think to be a core MMORPG player, you have to actually be playing MMORPG and even paying for at least one.

     

    Core is the same as, the couple million original MMORPG gamers that allowed this genre to even exist. You know, the games that the genre was named after? Not the shared online RPGs like SWTOR, but actual MMORPGs.

    Everytime someone makes an actual MMO, I play it. Darkfall, Vanguard, even Fallen Earth.

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Everytime someone makes an actual MMO, I play it. Darkfall, Vanguard, even Fallen Earth.

     

    Ah yes, the interesting 'only the MMO's I like to play are actual MMO's' approach. Haven't seen that one before. I mean, heaven forbid that there might exist MMO's that someone doesn't like the style of design of, but that are still MMO's. That's such a weird, far out concept! >.>
  • jagd241jagd241 San Diego, CAPosts: 54Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

     

    Project Gorgon is on kickstarter now and the guy running it is being VERY transparent about his game ideas. It seems it'll be a good old fashioned dungeon explorer type game with legit death penalties.

     

    I want to second this recommendation.   Project Gorgon is the most interesting MMO in development right now and it is pure Indie.  What other MMO offers the promise of having to deal with both the good and bad of lycanthropy?  In PG it takes two real-time months (two full moons) to become fully infected with lycanthropy.  On that second full moon your turn into a wolf and you're stuck in wolf-form for three days (until the gibbous moon).   Up-side you can learn wolf combat skills, downside no chatting, no NPC interaction, and no item utilization.  The main problem with PG? The art and animation are sub sub-par so it is on kickstarter right now for art & animation.

    Other major pluses: Shared world - no instanced dungeons a mix of classless skills and class-like permanent choices (e.g. such as the werewolf option).

    Devblog: http://www.eldergame.com/

    Gameplay Videos (Alpha):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCWxEZ9mYQU

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WZW1jH4WOQ

    Kickstarter:

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1045484633/project-gorgon-an-indie-mmo-by-industry-veterans?ref=blog

     

     

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