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[Review] Guild Wars 2: Raising the Bar

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  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by roo67

    I would say its one of the best mmos I've played in years along with Rift . It still fall short of that initial wow factor I had with Warcraft Vanilla . None the less still a great game and brilliant value .

    Looking forward to the War Z and Planetside 2 as well now which are both buy to play mmos .

    Dont really see any reason to pay a sub ever again .

    Well not unless theres something totally amazing and revolutionary comes out thats not completly casual .

    Yeah it's really hard for me to say whether I think that GW2 or vanilla WoW is the better game.

    Really? One was built on the broken systems of an older MMO and never did anything new or innovative.

    The other actually brought some new ideas to the table and brought back some great old ones.

    Then again, I'm of the camp that thought WoW was a bad, boring, uninspired game all the way through.

    GW2 will always get praise from me for doing away with the moronic practice of quest based leveling.

     Yes, really.  I'm guessing you are referring to WoW when you say it was built off of the broken systems of older MMO's?

    Not sure if you recall what open-world PvE in MMORPGs were like before WoW, but they were basically about camping spawns. They were in EQ, I never EVER camped a spawn in DAoC. EQ, DAoC, AC, UO...I spent a very long time camping spawns in ALL of those games...it made up the majority of my PvE leveling/skilling experience. You must have been doing something wrong then, because there were no mobs in demand enough in DAoC to be worth camping. And that problem was solved in WoW through instancing, which, other MMOS also had and used before WoW, EQ, specifically.

    WoW actually made it so there was a cohesive quest line to go through all the way to max level. DAoC had a cohesive quest line from level 5 to level 50 called the Epic Quest, and it actually felt like a quest, not busy work.  I think that's a big deal.  I also think it wasn't perfect, but still a big deal. 

    Also, even if there was some game that had this before WoW...it doesn't matter. Kinda does, yeah. The implementation of an idea is way way way WAY more important than the idea itself. Exactly, and the implementation was better or the same in most other games.  The fact of the matter is that WoW implemented quest-node leveling far better than any MMORPG to come before it. Incorrect.

     

     Hey what does DAoC stand for?  I thought it was Dark Age of Camelot...but maybe I'm wrong lol.  Because I know that in Dark Age of Camelot I spent a long time camping wolves with my scottish Albion dude...whatever that race was called.  Willam Wallaces?  But whatever.

    And when I wasn't camping, I was just wandering around an area killing stuff...basically like camping except you walk every now and then.  EQ had this too.  And DAoC had open dungeons just like most other games in that era, so I spent some time there grouped up as well.

    Don't get me wrong, I loved DAoC, but I'm pretty sure it did NOT have the amount or diversity of quests that WoW had.  Also, I stopped playing DAoC before ToA came out, so maybe they added questing like this later?  No clue, but I definitely don't remember it.

    Also, combat in DAoC wasn't the most responsive, and melee had to use /stick to stay on people otherwise it was very difficult.  WoW was the first MMORPG I played that was responsive enough to be able to just "keyboard it" as melee and stick to a player.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,937Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    Originally posted by laserit
     
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    Originally posted by KhinRunite
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    Originally posted by Ethos86
    Originally posted by boxsnd

    Today I learned that:

    1) an MMO with its endgame in the cons list can get more than 5/10 in the overall score.

    Definition of endgame is "things to do once level cap is hit". By this definition there are tons of stuff to do after you hit 80. Depending on how you reached 80 you could still do personal story, craft legendary, complete dungeons and paths (story and explorable), complete the world map, WvWvW. I personally don't know why you'd put endgame in the cons list unless you're looking for themepark raids, arenas, and basically gear for power up treadmill. It's not required for MMOs to have those. ANet is probably more interested in catering to the demographic that dislike large scale scheduled raids. Also, I believe currently unavailable zones will be opened via patch much like WoW opening raids in major patches.

    2) GW2 has "fantastic story and dungeons"

    The difficulty of dungeons are putting off some players. I haven't done any yet, but the mini dungeons are fun. Also you need to let the personal story gain some momentum. It starts out slow as it introduces the player's backstory, but on my story I can feel things are about to get big.

    3) GW2's copy pasted dynamic events are somehow better than classic questing.

    Dunno why you had to associate "copy-pasted" with DEs, but omit them from classic quests. They're equally repetitive in nature, but DEs help make the world appear more alive. They give incentive to revisiting an area. Starting an event for the first time gives the feeling of discovery. That's not to say the current implementation of DEs are perfect, but I personally prefer the GW2 way over, say...WoW.

    4) GW2 losing 40-50% of its player base within a month (see xfire+raptr) means it has longevity 9/10

    Xfire is only meritable on discussions revolving around Xfire. I'm not in denial that population is stabilizing, but I could post server status displaying Full, High, Medium, etc. and that still won't prove anything because there's no actual numbers. As for longetivity, like I said there's tons of things to do, and let's not forget ANet will keep new (free) content coming.

    5) not having to group or interact with anyone from 1 to 80+full exotics gives the game a social 8/10

    You may have chosen not to interact with others, but asking for POIs, vistas, assistance with more difficult SP challenges, secret puzzles, and champion mob have to count for interaction. I see people do these. I do these. It's shortsighted to think that just because we're no longer forced to interact there's no more interaction to be had. Forced grouping isn't a metric for Socialization.

    6) the dungeon grind can be a con while at the same time the dungeons are "fantastic". How does that work exactly? If the dungeons were fun the grind would be fun.

    No comment. Haven't done dungeons. Maybe someone else will take this.

    Haters, it's amusing.

    I hope at least you were paid to create a new account over here and post this on your first day's first post. So funny to see these account stats right below your name.

    Here's what I learned today: Trolls are too obvious.

    Yet you don't even attempt to counter my arguments.

    I said I wouldn't do this anymore, but you asked for it...

    Unfortunately I couldn't give firsthand comments on some stuff as I haven't even experienced half of the game yet (my main is  only at level 48)

    Your whole text in green is invalidated by the fact that you are level 48 and haven't done a dungeon yet. Trust me, I was just as excited at level 48. Come back to us after you spend 1-2 weeks at level 80. (if you make it that far) 

     

    And btw I tried to be social. I tried inviting people who were on the same quest and got either ignored or yelled at ("we can do everything without having to group" etc), I tried grouping with friends but the hearts drove us to solo all the time(some of them are slower players than me and it's painful to always have to wait for them to finish their heart) . Also grouping gave us NO advantage whatsoever(soloing is faster actually), so why do it?

    Funny... What I read into your last paragraph is that you are quite anti social.

     

    There is absolutley no problem socializing in the game it's certain type of people that are the problem. I dont need any kind of advantage to socialize and have a good time with people in game or out.

     

    [mod edit]

    [mod edit]

    I didnt make a personal attack, just an observation. The facts are written in your own paragraph which contains some very anti social comments.

     

    There is nothing in the game that hinder's socialization. People do that all on their own. I've made many freinds in game, usually by saving some ones ass or vice versa, I've rezzed tons of people and most are very freindly and polite, the ones who are not...  are jerks pure and simple and would be jerks no matter what the game.

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Randayn

    Originally posted by Nanfoodle



    Originally posted by Randayn




    Originally posted by Torgrim




    Originally posted by Randayn





    GW2 is linear...sure you can go back levels, but you can't progress without leveling.  

     

    If GW2 is linear as you say then RIFT,WOW,LOTRO,AoC,EQ2,TSW,STO,SWTOR are on rails.

    I never said they were'nt actually....the comment came from the other poster that GW2 wasn't linear...

    Any themepark is going to be linear in one way or another...that's what themeparks are....






     

    Read my post again, I said there was no linear questing!!!! The game has horizontal game design. If you dont get it watch this video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Zn81sY7pqI

     

    Im good...no need to see the video...Please explain to me how leveling from 1-80 by going to different zones is horizontal game design?  And there is no horizontal skill progression, so please explain to me what's horizontal about this game??  if I turn the box 90 degrees from standing position, that is horizontal...but that's it...

    Again, it's a farce...just because a designer says it, doesnt mean it's true...


     

    Its smiple. Most MMOs design 75% of their content for leveling and 2/3 of their dungeons on launch of a game are lower level content. Like GW2 first dungeon is level 30. But by say level 45 if you have not found a team to do that dungeon run, then that dungeon is a drag to do because its to low level for you and the loot would not be worth doing since its not for your level. Same with being level 80 and going back to a level 60 zone. Why do it? The mobs are easy to kill and the loot is usless. Thats vertical scaling game. As you out level the area there is very little reason to go back to it. All you have is the 25% of the content designed for top level to chalange you. Very linear scaling content/questing.

    A horizontally scaled game like GW2 make all content playable. At level 80 you can go back to a level 30 dungeon and not only is it scaled for your level but the boss drops are for your level. So now you are having fun and getting great loot. Same with zones. I have been playing with guildies at level 80 in level 30-60 areas and getting loot I can use and having fun. I have never played a MMO thats done that. All content is relevant to me. I can go anywhere and have fun. Sure the level 5-15 areas are a little dry but thats the starter areas where the game is teaching you how to play. Also there are 33 different dungeon runs I get to go explore that all drop loot for my level. To me that makes so much more sense.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by marcusfaith
    When a game loses its challenge or goal, then it has lost fun factor. GW2 was fun for the first 80 levels because there is, at least, a level up factor being considered. Once you hit level 80, it's a grind. The end-game is simply PvP and gear grinding. For people who love those, the game is fun. For others, the game has ended.

    For me, the game almost ended once I realized that all zones are the same: you go from one quest heart to another, while trying to complete everything in the map. There is no social value in the game, no in-game economy, and no real events (dynamic events do not count) that shape and alter how the world will be.

    However, when I step back and look at the game title, the game did fulfill its goal. It is Guild Wars. It is meant for people who are into PvP. The PvE elements are there to attract those who aren't into PvP. As such, it is a success. At the same time, it can only hold that type of players' interest for so long until they realize the game is mediocre at best.

    Still, it's a lot of fun for me. I just hope upcoming MMORPGs will do more in terms of the way socializing, in-game economy and diverse gameplay types (not just quest hubs everywhere) are being implemented. If that can be done, then the longevity of the game can be guaranteed based on the degree of the implementation.

     What game ever had real events that shape and alter how the world will be?

    Darkfall, Asheron's Call, Ultima Online... but especially Asheron's Call.

     When I read these posts, I just think "did you ever play those games???"

    I remember when I played UO I would hear about some seer doing some event in some city and how awesome it was, but over years of playing I NEVER once saw one of these so-called events.  The only thing that "changed the world" in UO was housing placement.  And while this did result in player-made towns, which were cool, the VAST majority of it was just urban sprawl.  You would literally be exploring in what looks like wilderness and then BAM you run into an invisible wall which resolves into a castle and tons of random houses around it.

    Darkfall?  Are you talking about the player towns that have plots that say "blacksmith goes here" and then people pay money and a blacksmith appears?  Yeah, that's a huge world changer.  Or maybe you're talking about the wars between player towns so that one guild can destroy another guild's town.  Which honestly, is just like WvW in GW2 except on a much, much longer and more drawn out timeline.  I remember being at one of those sieges once...it consisted of guys hitting buildings with hammers for what seemed like hours.

    AC...can't really comment.  I did play AC, and I liked it.  I can't say I remembered any world changing stuff, but I didn't play it for all that long.  All I really remember from it is trying to get a Mattekar coat, how my room-mate hated the "bitch system" (vassal system), and how their idea that magic would become less powerful when a lot of people know your spells was stupid.

    Also...weren't you talking about PvE stuff in your post?  So I'm assuming you were trying to refer to PvE events that changed the world?

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    I agree. In real life you can walk into a pub and you can just start talking to people, but in reality you walk into a pub with a group and then you network from there. That's what a guild is, that group, but furthermore you as an individual need to make an effort. All gw2 has done is thing like saying there is one pint on the bar every half hour, first to touch it gets it- be social in that scenario I dare ya!

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Bloody phone ^^ gw2 removed the pint scenario!

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • austriacusaustriacus limaPosts: 624Member
    Originally posted by marcusfaith
    When a game loses its challenge or goal, then it has lost fun factor. GW2 was fun for the first 80 levels because there is, at least, a level up factor being considered. Once you hit level 80, it's a grind. The end-game is simply PvP and gear grinding. For people who love those, the game is fun. For others, the game has ended.

    For me, the game almost ended once
    I realized that all zones are the same: you go from one quest heart to another, while trying to complete everything in the map. There is no social value in the game, no in-game economy, and no real events (dynamic events do not count) that shape and alter how the world will be.

    However, when I step back and look at the game title, the game did fulfill its goal. It is Guild Wars. It is meant for people who are into PvP. The PvE elements are there to attract those who aren't into PvP. As such, it is a success. At the same time, it can only hold that type of players' interest for so long until they realize the game is mediocre at best.

    Still, it's a lot of fun for me. I just hope upcoming MMORPGs will do more in terms of the way socializing, in-game economy and diverse gameplay types (not just quest hubs everywhere) are being implemented. If that can be done, then the longevity of the game can be guaranteed based on the degree of the implementation.

    This tells me you havent gotten to 80, let alone 70. From straits of devastation to the rest theres not a single heart. Only a lot of dynamic event chains that are constantly going up and down because people fail them quite frequently.

    Also i hope you mean cosmetic gear grinding because it took me almost no time to get my full exotic set. Considering the fact that finishing some maps give you lvl 80 exotics and all that....

  • marcusfaithmarcusfaith Artesia, CAPosts: 5Member
    Yes, I was actually referring to the PvE events.
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by roo67

    I would say its one of the best mmos I've played in years along with Rift . It still fall short of that initial wow factor I had with Warcraft Vanilla . None the less still a great game and brilliant value .

    Looking forward to the War Z and Planetside 2 as well now which are both buy to play mmos .

    Dont really see any reason to pay a sub ever again .

    Well not unless theres something totally amazing and revolutionary comes out thats not completly casual .

    Yeah it's really hard for me to say whether I think that GW2 or vanilla WoW is the better game.

    Really? One was built on the broken systems of an older MMO and never did anything new or innovative.

    The other actually brought some new ideas to the table and brought back some great old ones.

    Then again, I'm of the camp that thought WoW was a bad, boring, uninspired game all the way through.

    GW2 will always get praise from me for doing away with the moronic practice of quest based leveling.

     Yes, really.  I'm guessing you are referring to WoW when you say it was built off of the broken systems of older MMO's?

    Not sure if you recall what open-world PvE in MMORPGs were like before WoW, but they were basically about camping spawns. They were in EQ, I never EVER camped a spawn in DAoC. EQ, DAoC, AC, UO...I spent a very long time camping spawns in ALL of those games...it made up the majority of my PvE leveling/skilling experience. You must have been doing something wrong then, because there were no mobs in demand enough in DAoC to be worth camping. And that problem was solved in WoW through instancing, which, other MMOS also had and used before WoW, EQ, specifically.

    WoW actually made it so there was a cohesive quest line to go through all the way to max level. DAoC had a cohesive quest line from level 5 to level 50 called the Epic Quest, and it actually felt like a quest, not busy work.  I think that's a big deal.  I also think it wasn't perfect, but still a big deal. 

    Also, even if there was some game that had this before WoW...it doesn't matter. Kinda does, yeah. The implementation of an idea is way way way WAY more important than the idea itself. Exactly, and the implementation was better or the same in most other games.  The fact of the matter is that WoW implemented quest-node leveling far better than any MMORPG to come before it. Incorrect.

     

     Hey what does DAoC stand for?  I thought it was Dark Age of Camelot...but maybe I'm wrong lol.  Because I know that in Dark Age of Camelot I spent a long time camping wolves with my scottish Albion dude...whatever that race was called.  Willam Wallaces?  But whatever. I think you might be using your terms incorrectly. Camping usually implies holding a spot for a guild or group while waiting for a rare mob to respawn. What I think YOU'RE describing is "farming" which is hunting large amounts of the same mob. To which I say, you should have moved to a different mob. DAoC had camp exp bonuses which meant that the longer a mob stayed alive, the more xp it was worth, so it encouraged groups to move around and find out of the reach places. And I much MUCH prefer farming mobs to mindlessly following a yellow arrow while solo, doing chores for a lazy NPC. One allows me to play with friends and go where I like, the other leads me by the balls. And they were called highlanders, which means you very clearly don't remember much about the game, and didn't get far if you were just killing wolves.

    And when I wasn't camping, I was just wandering around an area killing stuff...basically like camping except you walk every now and then. There were also quests, bounties, and kill tasks you could have done. Or you could have gone to the battlegrounds and leveled that way. You couldn't level 100% from quests, which was good. It kept things fresh. EQ had this too.  And DAoC had open dungeons just like most other games in that era, so I spent some time there grouped up as well.

    Don't get me wrong, I loved DAoC, but I'm pretty sure it did NOT have the amount or diversity of quests that WoW had. Its quests were a lot more diverse because quests weren't "systemized", they didn't have to fit a specific mold. A quest could be anything from typing a riddle answer to an NPC, to solving a big puzzle. Whereas WoW quests, 90% of them are fetch quests. Also, I stopped playing DAoC before ToA came out, so maybe they added questing like this later?  No clue, but I definitely don't remember it. They did add quest based leveling eventually, and it did two things. It killed grouping entirely and made everyone solo. And it made everyone quit because quest based leveling is boring.

    Also, combat in DAoC wasn't the most responsive, and melee had to use /stick to stay on people otherwise it was very difficult. Using /stick wasn't necessary to stay with people, it was just the easiest way, but it would get you killed too if you relied on it, no one used it in PvP. DAoC is still the only MMO I know of where I could tell if I blocked and parried because I would actually see the animation, and the enemy would react to the interruption. Damage would be calculated the exact milisecond the animation connected, no lag. Unlike modern WoW clones where the only way you can tell is from the floating text. WoW was the first MMORPG I played that was responsive enough to be able to just "keyboard it" as melee and stick to a player.

     

  • marcusfaithmarcusfaith Artesia, CAPosts: 5Member

    Originally posted by austriacus

    Originally posted by marcusfaith

    When a game loses its challenge or goal, then it has lost fun factor. GW2 was fun for the first 80 levels because there is, at least, a level up factor being considered. Once you hit level 80, it's a grind. The end-game is simply PvP and gear grinding. For people who love those, the game is fun. For others, the game has ended.



    For me, the game almost ended once
    I realized that all zones are the same: you go from one quest heart to another, while trying to complete everything in the map. There is no social value in the game, no in-game economy, and no real events (dynamic events do not count) that shape and alter how the world will be.



    However, when I step back and look at the game title, the game did fulfill its goal. It is Guild Wars. It is meant for people who are into PvP. The PvE elements are there to attract those who aren't into PvP. As such, it is a success. At the same time, it can only hold that type of players' interest for so long until they realize the game is mediocre at best.



    Still, it's a lot of fun for me. I just hope upcoming MMORPGs will do more in terms of the way socializing, in-game economy and diverse gameplay types (not just quest hubs everywhere) are being implemented. If that can be done, then the longevity of the game can be guaranteed based on the degree of the implementation.

    This tells me you havent gotten to 80, let alone 70. From straits of devastation to the rest theres not a single heart. Only a lot of dynamic event chains that are constantly going up and down because people fail them quite frequently.

    Also i hope you mean cosmetic gear grinding because it took me almost no time to get my full exotic set. Considering the fact that finishing some maps give you lvl 80 exotics and all that....


     

    My human guardian actually hit level 80 more than a week ago, and I have 2 alts in their 30s. You're right that the Straits of Devastation has no heart quests, which was a fresh feeling for me. Plus, wandering around is much more dangerous, thus encouraging me to travel with companions. I just found myself doing the DEs just trying to get karma points pretty boring after a while. I'm still enjoying the game, and the WvW is very intruiging for me. My friends, on the other hand, has quietly abandoned the game unless I asked them to join in, which makes me think about how MMORPG could have been better if certain elements were better implemented.

  • marcusfaithmarcusfaith Artesia, CAPosts: 5Member



    Originally posted by austriacus

    This tells me you havent gotten to 80, let alone 70. From straits of devastation to the rest theres not a single heart. Only a lot of dynamic event chains that are constantly going up and down because people fail them quite frequently.

    Also i hope you mean cosmetic gear grinding because it took me almost no time to get my full exotic set. Considering the fact that finishing some maps give you lvl 80 exotics and all that....

    As for the dynamic event chains, does it really matter much whether it's a success or a failure? The world still operates the same way after the events reboot. That's what breaks the immersion completely. What if simple events do reboot every now and then (such as a farmer needing help with clearing spiders off their farms), but important events only happen once a week, or even a month if they are mammoth in scope, wouldn't that make the game world more interesting?
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by marcusfaith







    Originally posted by austriacus

    This tells me you havent gotten to 80, let alone 70. From straits of devastation to the rest theres not a single heart. Only a lot of dynamic event chains that are constantly going up and down because people fail them quite frequently.

    Also i hope you mean cosmetic gear grinding because it took me almost no time to get my full exotic set. Considering the fact that finishing some maps give you lvl 80 exotics and all that....



    As for the dynamic event chains, does it really matter much whether it's a success or a failure? The world still operates the same way after the events reboot. That's what breaks the immersion completely. What if simple events do reboot every now and then (such as a farmer needing help with clearing spiders off their farms), but important events only happen once a week, or even a month if they are mammoth in scope, wouldn't that make the game world more interesting?

     

    No, would make it slow and unworthy of my time. Sure events only change the game for 10-60 min depending on the chain. But I rather that then a standard quest system where the same zone of mobs stand in the same place respawning every few min and my quest shows no change to the game world at all.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • ZebladeZeblade Colorado Springs, COPosts: 926Member

    1st its just one persons view of the game and they liked it from the start and well you can read yes. Have to wonder just who this game caters to and whats left of it when you take out PVE/PVP items/gear. I've read here this game not like wow/rift/eq2 blah blah.

    A so why are you playing then? We ALL know its not to chat with others this does not happen in GW2. And lmao everyone is a hardcore or been around since 100bc playing mmos pffft. I have been around since then yet not hardcore. This is the 1st f2p mmo if you like it to WOW/EQ2 and so on that is so easy.  LIke all the rest you have to do all this crap to get items.. armor and so on.

    And please put in $15 a month and then the game is just like the rest. Its the FREE TO PLAY people like. One thing is for sure its not a adult type game at all. Very very young people play it. Which is ok.. its free.. only thing I dont like is the lack of chat which has not changeds since beta. Go for it... post your server to show where they are talking all the time.. this alone kills it for me. With out friends in guilds ..I am then playing solo. 

    I dont think this is going to change any new mmos coming out. Guys this world is not getting better. Look outside..

     

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by Randayn

    GW2 is linear...sure you can go back levels, but you can't progress without leveling.  

    Every single MMORPG is linear then. Even pure sandbox games like Minecraft are linear. You can't progress without improving your character in a way or another. UO is linear (raise those skills). EvE is linear (raise... those skills). There's no other way to progress than to raise those skills or levels.

    What's your point, exactly?

    thanks for the generalization...and thanks for grabbing one comment of mine and turning into what you may.

    My full comment was that you progress through 1 zone at a time, crafted to fit level requirements, doing DE's that fit level requirements as they go along in order to reach endgame...

    Generalizing my comments won't change the truth man...

    image
  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Originally posted by Randayn

    Originally posted by Nanfoodle



    Originally posted by Randayn





    Originally posted by Torgrim





    Originally posted by Randayn






    GW2 is linear...sure you can go back levels, but you can't progress without leveling.  


     


    If GW2 is linear as you say then RIFT,WOW,LOTRO,AoC,EQ2,TSW,STO,SWTOR are on rails.


    I never said they were'nt actually....the comment came from the other poster that GW2 wasn't linear...


    Any themepark is going to be linear in one way or another...that's what themeparks are....






     

    Read my post again, I said there was no linear questing!!!! The game has horizontal game design. If you dont get it watch this video.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Zn81sY7pqI


     

    Im good...no need to see the video...Please explain to me how leveling from 1-80 by going to different zones is horizontal game design?  And there is no horizontal skill progression, so please explain to me what's horizontal about this game??  if I turn the box 90 degrees from standing position, that is horizontal...but that's it...

    Again, it's a farce...just because a designer says it, doesnt mean it's true...


     

    Its smiple. Most MMOs design 75% of their content for leveling and 2/3 of their dungeons on launch of a game are lower level content. Like GW2 first dungeon is level 30. But by say level 45 if you have not found a team to do that dungeon run, then that dungeon is a drag to do because its to low level for you and the loot would not be worth doing since its not for your level. Same with being level 80 and going back to a level 60 zone. Why do it? The mobs are easy to kill and the loot is usless. Thats vertical scaling game. As you out level the area there is very little reason to go back to it. All you have is the 25% of the content designed for top level to chalange you. Very linear scaling content/questing.

    A horizontally scaled game like GW2 make all content playable. At level 80 you can go back to a level 30 dungeon and not only is it scaled for your level but the boss drops are for your level. So now you are having fun and getting great loot. Same with zones. I have been playing with guildies at level 80 in level 30-60 areas and getting loot I can use and having fun. I have never played a MMO thats done that. All content is relevant to me. I can go anywhere and have fun. Sure the level 5-15 areas are a little dry but thats the starter areas where the game is teaching you how to play. Also there are 33 different dungeon runs I get to go explore that all drop loot for my level. To me that makes so much more sense.

    "A horizontally scaled game like GW2 make all content playable."

     

    I'll repeat myself again...please try to catch it this time.  YOU CANNOT BE LEVEL 15 AND DO LEVEL 30 CONTENT....how is that horizontal???

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  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by marcusfaith
    When a game loses its challenge or goal, then it has lost fun factor. GW2 was fun for the first 80 levels because there is, at least, a level up factor being considered. Once you hit level 80, it's a grind. The end-game is simply PvP and gear grinding. For people who love those, the game is fun. For others, the game has ended.

    For me, the game almost ended once I realized that all zones are the same: you go from one quest heart to another, while trying to complete everything in the map. There is no social value in the game, no in-game economy, and no real events (dynamic events do not count) that shape and alter how the world will be.

    However, when I step back and look at the game title, the game did fulfill its goal. It is Guild Wars. It is meant for people who are into PvP. The PvE elements are there to attract those who aren't into PvP. As such, it is a success. At the same time, it can only hold that type of players' interest for so long until they realize the game is mediocre at best.

    Still, it's a lot of fun for me. I just hope upcoming MMORPGs will do more in terms of the way socializing, in-game economy and diverse gameplay types (not just quest hubs everywhere) are being implemented. If that can be done, then the longevity of the game can be guaranteed based on the degree of the implementation.

     What game ever had real events that shape and alter how the world will be?

    Darkfall, Asheron's Call, Ultima Online... but especially Asheron's Call.

     When I read these posts, I just think "did you ever play those games???"

    I remember when I played UO I would hear about some seer doing some event in some city and how awesome it was, but over years of playing I NEVER once saw one of these so-called events.  The only thing that "changed the world" in UO was housing placement.  And while this did result in player-made towns, which were cool, the VAST majority of it was just urban sprawl.  You would literally be exploring in what looks like wilderness and then BAM you run into an invisible wall which resolves into a castle and tons of random houses around it.

    Darkfall?  Are you talking about the player towns that have plots that say "blacksmith goes here" and then people pay money and a blacksmith appears?  Yeah, that's a huge world changer.  Or maybe you're talking about the wars between player towns so that one guild can destroy another guild's town.  Which honestly, is just like WvW in GW2 except on a much, much longer and more drawn out timeline.  I remember being at one of those sieges once...it consisted of guys hitting buildings with hammers for what seemed like hours.

    AC...can't really comment.  I did play AC, and I liked it.  I can't say I remembered any world changing stuff, but I didn't play it for all that long.  All I really remember from it is trying to get a Mattekar coat, how my room-mate hated the "bitch system" (vassal system), and how their idea that magic would become less powerful when a lot of people know your spells was stupid.

    Also...weren't you talking about PvE stuff in your post?  So I'm assuming you were trying to refer to PvE events that changed the world?

    Like I said...Ryzom...they have special held events and things of that nature in which the outcome can change the world map....also, although not player spawned, the seasons change where animals migrate....you could be farming mats in one area and all of a sudden there are animals in that area because of a season change.

    You have control over what types of skills you have (because you can combine skills together to create whatever you want)...To think that GW2 offers any freedom is a joke.  It's themepark on rails.

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  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Why the hell would you try to take a linear approach in a non linear game. Concrete example: when I was leave 50, I played at level 5 when I was with some guildies, level 30 when I was doing cm story with guildies, level 80 in pvp, then when soloing I explored levels 3-5 above me to get some nice gathering and danger, and level 50 ish for some events that I could have some carefree blasting. The gathering in zones higher than my level fed my crafting and discovery. Nothing was linear. In short, if you are acting in a linear way then that's what you get.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Of that's true try reading people's comments, your playIng a non linear game in a linear fashion and complaining its linear.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Why the hell would you try to take a linear approach in a non linear game. Concrete example: when I was leave 50, I played at level 5 when I was with some guildies, level 30 when I was doing cm story with guildies, level 80 in pvp, then when soloing I explored levels 3-5 above me to get some nice gathering and danger, and level 50 ish for some events that I could have some carefree blasting. The gathering in zones higher than my level fed my crafting and discovery. Nothing was linear. In short, if you are acting in a linear way then that's what you get.

    I'd actually venture to say that you are taking a non-linear approach to a linear game.

    image
  • KingJigglyKingJiggly Simpsonville, SCPosts: 777Member
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Why the hell would you try to take a linear approach in a non linear game. Concrete example: when I was leave 50, I played at level 5 when I was with some guildies, level 30 when I was doing cm story with guildies, level 80 in pvp, then when soloing I explored levels 3-5 above me to get some nice gathering and danger, and level 50 ish for some events that I could have some carefree blasting. The gathering in zones higher than my level fed my crafting and discovery. Nothing was linear. In short, if you are acting in a linear way then that's what you get.

    I'd actually venture to say that you are taking a non-linear approach to a linear game.

    Do you hear yourself? Or are you jsut that stubborn? lol

  • mbolmembolme Edmonds, WAPosts: 48Member
    Originally posted by Randayn

    I'd actually venture to say that you are taking a non-linear approach to a linear game.

    I disagree. It seems quite non-linear to me. Other than avoiding areaas too high for me, I have felt free to go wherever I want whenever I want. If avoiding areaas too high for you makes it linear to yu, I guess we have different definitions of linear.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Lol if the game allows me to take a non linear approach and reward me for it then that .. Makes..it..non..linear. Because you know what, these things are not by accident. There is code in place that allows this.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by Randayn

    GW2 is linear...sure you can go back levels, but you can't progress without leveling.  

    Every single MMORPG is linear then. Even pure sandbox games like Minecraft are linear. You can't progress without improving your character in a way or another. UO is linear (raise those skills). EvE is linear (raise... those skills). There's no other way to progress than to raise those skills or levels.

    What's your point, exactly?

    thanks for the generalization...and thanks for grabbing one comment of mine and turning into what you may.

    My full comment was that you progress through 1 zone at a time, crafted to fit level requirements, doing DE's that fit level requirements as they go along in order to reach endgame...

    Generalizing my comments won't change the truth man...

    Your truth is definitely not the truth. Even at low levels, you are never limited to one zone. And the more you progress, the more the whole world becomes your playground thanks to downscaling. This is the truth, the real one anyone who really played through the game knows.

    What you say is just misinformation. It's not new here, others have posted the same crap. It doesn't make it more true because it's you posting it this time.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

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  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    To be fair the disease of the linear/optimal xp path approach to max level is so ingrained in se players due to some pretty manipulative gameplay models many are quite frankly terrified of a more freeform approach. Rather than lambasting peeps maybe they will think well if sim people can play a game in a non linear fashion then I can too!

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by Randayn

    GW2 is linear...sure you can go back levels, but you can't progress without leveling.  

    Every single MMORPG is linear then. Even pure sandbox games like Minecraft are linear. You can't progress without improving your character in a way or another. UO is linear (raise those skills). EvE is linear (raise... those skills). There's no other way to progress than to raise those skills or levels.

    What's your point, exactly?

    thanks for the generalization...and thanks for grabbing one comment of mine and turning into what you may.

    My full comment was that you progress through 1 zone at a time, crafted to fit level requirements, doing DE's that fit level requirements as they go along in order to reach endgame...

    Generalizing my comments won't change the truth man...

    Your truth is definitely not the truth. Even at low levels, you are never limited to one zone. And the more you progress, the more the whole world becomes your playground thanks to downscaling. This is the truth, the real one anyone who really played through the game knows.

    What you say is just misinformation. It's not new here, others have posted the same crap. It doesn't make it more true because it's you posting it this time.

    I didnt know you could play in 2 zones at the same time...you read me wrong.  I understand that there are a handful of zones for each level....downscaling will never make sense to me...I dont want to see the same area again and I also like to make alts to see new areas.

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