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[Review] Guild Wars 2: Raising the Bar

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Comments

  • MothanosMothanos ArnhemPosts: 1,860Member Uncommon

    [mod edit]

    GW2 is a blast once you hit 80 you can still do all the other zone's you missed wich is HUGE.

    Dungeons are hardcore

    WvW is epic

    Spvp is epic

     Big Meta Events are epic

    Grapics are idd very good

     

    What more can you ask for ?

     

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member

    It's interesting to see a review from an "outsider's" point of view: Edge-Online:

    http://www.edge-online.com/review/guild-wars-2-review/2/

    Dynamic Events: -1

    And you will tire of it. Guild Wars 2’s quest acquisition is novel in comparison with its peers, but the dynamic quests themselves are the same as they ever were: kill ten of these, pick up 15 of that. There’s the occasional snappy, well-plotted example, but the majority grate quickly – especially as there never seems to be quite enough of your target in the designated area, forcing you to backtrack and twiddle your thumbs until the MMOG gods deign to resupply the world with monsters. This problem is counterbalanced by the sheer weight of stuff in Tyria

    Class Choices: +1

    The classes themselves are more enjoyable. Each has a definite function in combat. The Ranger and Engineer affect a battlefield from afar; the Guardian stands in the centre and tries to make himself as big a target as possible. But each has more flexibility than a character in most MMOGs.

    Combat: +1

    Particularly when combat is so tough. Bosses in the game’s dungeons – currently eight story-led runs through gauntlets of tough enemies, necessitating a powerful group – can feel more like a Dark Souls enemy than a World Of Warcraft foe, forcing assailants to learn attack patterns and movements, not simply their own skill rotation.

    ...

    However, value for money, GW2 appears to be one of the best games of the year. So definitely an 8.5 score, but not higher than 9.0 as the DEs are just not revolutionary enough. I think Edge's 8 is to nearest whole number and it also does not look at PvP in the review which it seems is one of the games BIGGEST SELLING POINTS.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon
    Been MMOing for almost 15 years and there is a few times I knew I knew a MMO would be epic. EQ1, DAoC, WoW and now GW2. GW2 is epic and will change how MMOs are made. I for one will be playing for a long time. One thing is for sure, gona take a lot to mesure up to GW2 to make me pay 15 bucks a month to switch MMOs. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Combat: +1

    Particularly when combat is so tough. Bosses in the game’s dungeons – currently eight story-led runs through gauntlets of tough enemies, necessitating a powerful group – can feel more like a Dark Souls enemy than a World Of Warcraft foe, forcing assailants to learn attack patterns and movements, not simply their own skill rotation.

     

    I would give combat a -1 because it's strategy is revolved around twitch rather than preparation and thought.  If I wanted to have play a twitch combat game, I'd play an FPS...I play RPG's/MMORPG's because I'd rather have to think on my way to battle, before battle and during battle....I said it before, twitch/instinct is the absence of thought.  RPG's/MMORPGs, at least I thought, were more a thinking person's game than anything.  This game has destroyed this concept and set a new precident...you don't have to think to play.  To prove that, I can make a video of my 8 year old son playing the game flawlessly if you'd like.  He even uses his skill points and moves his skills over to be able to use.

    He tried to play Ryzom, Anarchy Online, AoC (even though this isnt even a thinking person's game really) and TSW and could not....died ALOT and the skill system for each (except for AoC) baffled him.

    I don't usually use my child as a psychology experiment, but this time it proved useful.

    image
  • xngxngxngxng FKPGPosts: 1Member

     



     


     



     



     


     





     

    Sorry dear MMORPG, I would say like this.

    AESTHETICS – 9 : True, beautiful environments and 3dmodels.

    SOCIAL – 1 : Hard to party up with people, if it even works which it rarely does. It costs alot of ingame currency or real money if through gems to portal around to play with friends. It costs about 600 Euro to form a raid for one of the participants.

    POLISH – 3 : Very buggy at levels 60+, most events and story-quests bug at one time or another breaking immersion and play.

    INNOVATION – 1 : The only thing innovate would be automatic partying which is not new and therefore not innovative at all.



    GAMEPLAY – 4 : It is really fun when it works. When it works.. When is the operative word here.



    LONGEVITY – 4 : Lasts until level 80, after that you can still kill mobs but it will cost you a fortune.

    VALUE – 5 : Could have been higher, but the value is lowered because you need to spend 60+ of your own precious hours to realise it. Those hours is worth alot more than the game usually.



  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by xngxng




     









     






     







     









     






     











     



    Sorry dear MMORPG, I would say like this.

    AESTHETICS – 9 : True, beautiful environments and 3dmodels.

    SOCIAL – 1 : Hard to party up with people, if it even works which it rarely does. It costs alot of ingame currency or real money if through gems to portal around to play with friends. It costs about 600 Euro to form a raid for one of the participants.

    You must have stopped playing after the first week because that big was fix very fast.  If I join a team and they are in a overflow server and I zone I am poped into the same shard my team is without being asked. As for commanders and paying RL money to get that, you dont. Earn the money ingame and you to can be a commander. 


    POLISH – 3 : Very buggy at levels 60+, most events and story-quests bug at one time or another breaking immersion and play.

    Im level 80 for a while now and in 20 events and hearts I find maybe 1 that is bugged. I was expecting that to be higher with no real large scale testing. Personally I am very impressed.


    INNOVATION – 1 : The only thing innovate would be automatic partying which is not new and therefore not innovative at all.

    Frist MMO to have no linear quests. Hearts are there just to point you in the difrection where public/dynamic events take place. NPC tells and combat circles really make things fun. First real dodge system. No gear grind, play for fun with 33 different dungeon runs. Dont pay a monthly fee with a game thats a AAA game. I could go on and on but GW2 has made enough of a foot print to be called inovative.






    GAMEPLAY – 4 : It is really fun when it works. When it works.. When is the operative word here.

    Pls list the bugs you find so bad, because ANet has been rolling out patches with fixes faster then most new MMOs I have played and I been playing them for almost 15 years. The game has polish!!!

     

    LONGEVITY – 4 : Lasts until level 80, after that you can still kill mobs but it will cost you a fortune.



    VALUE – 5 : Could have been higher, but the value is lowered because you need to spend 60+ of your own precious hours to realise it. Those hours is worth alot more than the game usually.








     

    Over all I have no idea what game you played but its not GW2.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

     

    .

     It's not arrogance, I just see anything below a seven for GW2 as being outside of a reasonable score, and thus I question it.  Also, my statement would allow for someone to give GW2 say like a 7.1, which is a pretty freaking low score.  That's a C-.

    It's kind of like if someone gave The Matrix (first one) a 6, I would say they are smoking crack.  Or on a more rational level, their subjective, personal feelings about the movie did not allow them to see its objective merits.

    Even if I personally HATE a game, I would still try to give it points for things that it did well objectively, or compared with its peers.  I really did not like SWTOR for example, but I gave it like an 8 if I remember right.

    Also, I want to clarify that there is an issue of different "scales" here.  Some people really like to explore every number from 1-10, and give games a 4 that are like an 8 on metacritic.  I just want to be clear that I base all my scales (and your scales) off of the US grading system...which is pretty accepted among all the reviews out there.

    So essentially....if someone has a wildly different view than you, you think they are "smoking crack" or are not seeing things objectively?  Wow.  If that's not arrogance, I clearly don't know what is.

     

    No, that's not what I said, and you know it.  If someone like golf, and I don't, I don't tell them that it sucks.  I don't like Eve, but I don't see a need to go to the Eve forums and tell them about how I don't like the game and couldn't play it for an hour.  In fact, I completely accept their differing opinion of the game as valid.

    In this case though, I'm just saying that your opinion is biased and not objective in the slightest.  Yep, I am saying that, not beating around the bush here.

    If you are so intent on your score of GW2 being right, why don't you go ahead and justify it for us.  Tell us all the objective reasons why you think GW2 deserves a D score.  Now mind you, we are using the same scale that metacritic winds up averaging to here.  So this puts GW2 in the same league as games like:

    Ghost Recon Online and Star Trek Online

    So tell us, why do you believe that GW2 is on par with those two games?

     

     

    That is what you said.  Look above. I'll underline the parts for you.  I just find it very interesting how close-minded you are about this game.  You have basically determined that this game, whether one likes it or not, is a 7.  This is what you said.  So, you are in fact placing your view onto others...

    Let's try this another way, if I say something like:

    Homeland is a great show.  It is a solid 9.  Anyone that rates it below a 7 is obviously biased.

    I am essentially stating it is a fact that the show, regardless of opinion, is a 7.

    I am saying my opinion is a fact.

    See what I mean?

    Also, just because you have a philosophy about recognizing a game as having a base value, does not mean everyone else needs to.  That is your philosophy.  It doesn't need to be mine.

     Ah the good ol' opinion versus fact argument.  Never fails!  It's also COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS.

    We are not talking about the product of 6*7, or the average flying speed of the peregrine falcon here.  THOSE are FACTS.  No, we are talking about different views on GAMES.  OBVIOUSLY opinions.  It should be freaking implied that everything said here is an opinion.

    So let me restate my views in a way that may be less offensive to your sensibilities.

    It is my opinion that anyone who gives GW2 a score below 7 is smoking crack.

    It is my opinion that YOUR opinion is wrong.

    It is my opinion that many people here are not able to look at games objectively and from perspective, and instead decide to score games based solely on personal bias and preference.

    Now, do I really need to say "It is my opinion" before every sentence I write?  Or can we just move past this and accept that all our views on games are just opinions, and shocker, we can argue about differing opinions.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Combat: +1

    Particularly when combat is so tough. Bosses in the game’s dungeons – currently eight story-led runs through gauntlets of tough enemies, necessitating a powerful group – can feel more like a Dark Souls enemy than a World Of Warcraft foe, forcing assailants to learn attack patterns and movements, not simply their own skill rotation.

     

    I would give combat a -1 because it's strategy is revolved around twitch rather than preparation and thought.  If I wanted to have play a twitch combat game, I'd play an FPS...I play RPG's/MMORPG's because I'd rather have to think on my way to battle, before battle and during battle....I said it before, twitch/instinct is the absence of thought.  RPG's/MMORPGs, at least I thought, were more a thinking person's game than anything.  This game has destroyed this concept and set a new precident...you don't have to think to play.  To prove that, I can make a video of my 8 year old son playing the game flawlessly if you'd like.  He even uses his skill points and moves his skills over to be able to use.

    He tried to play Ryzom, Anarchy Online, AoC (even though this isnt even a thinking person's game really) and TSW and could not....died ALOT and the skill system for each (except for AoC) baffled him.

    I don't usually use my child as a psychology experiment, but this time it proved useful.

     Twitch and strategy are not mutually exclusive.  Look at Starcraft, it is basically equal parts twitch and strategy.

    I don't think GW2 is as strategical as SC (but then again no MMO is), but I don't think it's pure twitch.  There are plenty of tactics you can do in GW2 that actual require thought and oftentimes coordination.  For example, a mesmer can trait himself so that anytime people enter or exit his fields (glamors) they get a stack of confusion.

    He can then go to a busy control point and put down a portal field, and proceed to just kite everyone around as they run through the portal field (it's small) over and over again, getting 2 stacks of confusion each time, and proceed to kill themselves by attacking him.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

     

    .

     It's not arrogance, I just see anything below a seven for GW2 as being outside of a reasonable score, and thus I question it.  Also, my statement would allow for someone to give GW2 say like a 7.1, which is a pretty freaking low score.  That's a C-.

    It's kind of like if someone gave The Matrix (first one) a 6, I would say they are smoking crack.  Or on a more rational level, their subjective, personal feelings about the movie did not allow them to see its objective merits.

    Even if I personally HATE a game, I would still try to give it points for things that it did well objectively, or compared with its peers.  I really did not like SWTOR for example, but I gave it like an 8 if I remember right.

    Also, I want to clarify that there is an issue of different "scales" here.  Some people really like to explore every number from 1-10, and give games a 4 that are like an 8 on metacritic.  I just want to be clear that I base all my scales (and your scales) off of the US grading system...which is pretty accepted among all the reviews out there.

    So essentially....if someone has a wildly different view than you, you think they are "smoking crack" or are not seeing things objectively?  Wow.  If that's not arrogance, I clearly don't know what is.

     

    No, that's not what I said, and you know it.  If someone like golf, and I don't, I don't tell them that it sucks.  I don't like Eve, but I don't see a need to go to the Eve forums and tell them about how I don't like the game and couldn't play it for an hour.  In fact, I completely accept their differing opinion of the game as valid.

    In this case though, I'm just saying that your opinion is biased and not objective in the slightest.  Yep, I am saying that, not beating around the bush here.

    If you are so intent on your score of GW2 being right, why don't you go ahead and justify it for us.  Tell us all the objective reasons why you think GW2 deserves a D score.  Now mind you, we are using the same scale that metacritic winds up averaging to here.  So this puts GW2 in the same league as games like:

    Ghost Recon Online and Star Trek Online

    So tell us, why do you believe that GW2 is on par with those two games?

     

     

    That is what you said.  Look above. I'll underline the parts for you.  I just find it very interesting how close-minded you are about this game.  You have basically determined that this game, whether one likes it or not, is a 7.  This is what you said.  So, you are in fact placing your view onto others...

    Let's try this another way, if I say something like:

    Homeland is a great show.  It is a solid 9.  Anyone that rates it below a 7 is obviously biased.

    I am essentially stating it is a fact that the show, regardless of opinion, is a 7.

    I am saying my opinion is a fact.

    See what I mean?

    Also, just because you have a philosophy about recognizing a game as having a base value, does not mean everyone else needs to.  That is your philosophy.  It doesn't need to be mine.

     Ah the good ol' opinion versus fact argument.  Never fails!  It's also COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS.

    We are not talking about the product of 6*7, or the average flying speed of the peregrine falcon here.  THOSE are FACTS.  No, we are talking about different views on GAMES.  OBVIOUSLY opinions.  It should be freaking implied that everything said here is an opinion.

    So let me restate my views in a way that may be less offensive to your sensibilities.

    It is my opinion that anyone who gives GW2 a score below 7 is smoking crack.

    It is my opinion that YOUR opinion is wrong.

    It is my opinion that many people here are not able to look at games objectively and from perspective, and instead decide to score games based solely on personal bias and preference.

    Now, do I really need to say "It is my opinion" before every sentence I write?  Or can we just move past this and accept that all our views on games are just opinions, and shocker, we can argue about differing opinions.

    Whether a person is smoking crack or not is really not an opinion.... I'm just saying.... ;)

     

     LOL, touche :).

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • DraemosDraemos Antartica, AKPosts: 1,469Member
    Originally posted by Pretender00

    Originally posted by Draemos

    I made it to level 30 and realized I was doing the same handful of things over and over again and that everything was a Zerg. . Probably the worst leveling experience I've had  in a AAA game.  Hell I even made it to a higher level in Aion.  I wouldn't even have made it to 30 if the engineer wasn't a moderately unique class.

     

    Your bar must be sticking about two inches out of the mud, because this game is decent at best.


     

     I want to take something and put it in context here.  You said, "probably the worst leveling experience I've had in an AAA game.

    See, therein lies the problem. If you play GW2 like all the other AAA games and all you can think about is level, level, level then you will probably be bored.

    I've found that playing the game by just going out and enountering things and forgetting about leveling brings a far more enjoyable experience. Funny part is that in this game I actually get startled when my "Level Up" occurs because I'm not expecting it. 

    Funny how some people still can't grasp that this game was not made to be played like the typical MMO. It literally takes off most of the constraints and lets you "LIVE" the game. If you choose to do so that is. Otherwise follow the hearts, grind your levels, fast mode your dungeons and you'll be here complaining you're bored and have nothing to do.

    Actually, I just played the game within the confines of its own design.  Whatever bullshit assumptions you want to draw from that are your problem.  It's boring.  Whether you play it to get the next level, the next skill, or to just play to have fun... It is boring

     

    If its going to be a game to "live in the world" it needs to be deeper than a puddle of mud theme park.,  I'll play Eve if that's what the game is going for.

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member

    It's a strange thing. I agree with the review in any way. I certainly feel that this game deserves the 9 it received. I could be wrong, but it may be the highest score ever given on this site - and the reasons for that score seem to be well thought out.

    So why do I have next to zero interest in logging in?

    - I'm with people all the time, yet I feel like I never group - I don't feel like the DE's are a group effort, but it 'feels' like everyone for themselves. For every one person who heals or resurects me in the field, there are a dozen who watch me die or run by my corpse.

    - There is complex coordination to make group play in dungeons fun and effective. Yet there are virtually no tools or mechanics teaching you how the system works. I thought groups would go slow and chat with each other and use the existing social chat features to figure this out. But the no penalty re-spawn and run back to kill the boss at 1/2 health keeps people from talking to each other to figure out how to do it right.

    - So my biggest fear prior to launch is realized. No trinity means a vast majority of players are 'in it for themselves' zerg fest in dungeons, leading to wipe after wipe after wipe.

    -On a third boss attempt I would type 'hey let's slow down and figure out how to do this right' .......no verbal response, just individuals zerging back into the fray without regards to their team mates.

    - Viewpoint points seem to be a time sink for no reason. What did that cut scene do for me? I could enjoy the graphics and aesthetics without the cutscene or climbing to a high point. But I gotsta do it if I want that zone completion.

    - The stories are cliche'd and tired. The voice acting is subpar. Just as with SWToR - I don't feel like I'm 'creating a persona' for my character, I feel like I'm pushing around a character some developer wrote. Sure I have choices, but they aren't what I would choose. If I want an 'agressive' character, I wouldn't have spouted out that cheesball line. If I wanted a charming character, I wouldn't want everything he said to sound so arrogant. And so on and so forth. It isn't my role, it is a predetermined/pre-written role from GW2 developers.

    Everquest used to have a tagline:

    "You're in OUR world now"

    Ever since then, it has been the mantra or focus of almost every mmo I've played.

    I'm ready for a developer to say:

    "It is YOUR world now"

  • DraemosDraemos Antartica, AKPosts: 1,469Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Been MMOing for almost 15 years and there is a few times I knew I knew a MMO would be epic. EQ1, DAoC, WoW and now GW2. GW2 is epic and will change how MMOs are made. I for one will be playing for a long time. One thing is for sure, gona take a lot to mesure up to GW2 to make me pay 15 bucks a month to switch MMOs. 

    I felt the same way about 3 of those games.  I'll let you guess which one we disagree on

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon


    INNOVATION – 1 : The only thing innovate would be automatic partying which is not new and therefore not innovative at all.

    Frist MMO to have no linear quests. Hearts are there just to point you in the difrection where public/dynamic events take place. NPC tells and combat circles really make things fun. First real dodge system. No gear grind, play for fun with 33 different dungeon runs. Dont pay a monthly fee with a game thats a AAA game. I could go on and on but GW2 has made enough of a foot print to be called inovative.

    This is priceless....

     

    So you can go to a different area that is for level 30 players and do DE's at level 15?  Thanks, try again please.  That was probably the most ignorant statement ever considering there were SEVERAL MMO's that have come before your "god" has that did not have or require linear quest progression.....GW2 does.

    image
  • jayartejayarte LancasterPosts: 450Member

    Enjoyed the review, Bill, thanks.

     

    I've been waiting a long time for this game and so far it hasn't disappointed.  Then again, I'm not seeking perfection, just a game which makes me want to log-in and play because I'm enjoying it so much.

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Combat: +1

    Particularly when combat is so tough. Bosses in the game’s dungeons – currently eight story-led runs through gauntlets of tough enemies, necessitating a powerful group – can feel more like a Dark Souls enemy than a World Of Warcraft foe, forcing assailants to learn attack patterns and movements, not simply their own skill rotation.

     

    I would give combat a -1 because it's strategy is revolved around twitch rather than preparation and thought.  If I wanted to have play a twitch combat game, I'd play an FPS...I play RPG's/MMORPG's because I'd rather have to think on my way to battle, before battle and during battle....I said it before, twitch/instinct is the absence of thought.  RPG's/MMORPGs, at least I thought, were more a thinking person's game than anything.  This game has destroyed this concept and set a new precident...you don't have to think to play.  To prove that, I can make a video of my 8 year old son playing the game flawlessly if you'd like.  He even uses his skill points and moves his skills over to be able to use.

    He tried to play Ryzom, Anarchy Online, AoC (even though this isnt even a thinking person's game really) and TSW and could not....died ALOT and the skill system for each (except for AoC) baffled him.

    I don't usually use my child as a psychology experiment, but this time it proved useful.

     Twitch and strategy are not mutually exclusive.  Look at Starcraft, it is basically equal parts twitch and strategy.

    I don't think GW2 is as strategical as SC (but then again no MMO is), but I don't think it's pure twitch.  There are plenty of tactics you can do in GW2 that actual require thought and oftentimes coordination.  For example, a mesmer can trait himself so that anytime people enter or exit his fields (glamors) they get a stack of confusion.

    He can then go to a busy control point and put down a portal field, and proceed to just kite everyone around as they run through the portal field (it's small) over and over again, getting 2 stacks of confusion each time, and proceed to kill themselves by attacking him.

    When I say twitch, I mean "in the moment"....the skill system in GW2 is definitely setup for "in the moment" combat.  Compare it to Ryzom, Anarchy Online or TSW where every decision you make as far as skills to choose goes and the difference is obvious.  I could spend hours trying to figure out how to properly alot points into the right places for my MA in AO.  I can spend hours trying to craft together new spells, attacks and such in Ryzom.  Took me a complete re-roll just get my skills selection right in TSW...you don't get it right and you'll know by the fact that you get pwnd every fight.  

    GW2 is plug 'n' play....don't have to worry about all the skill stuff...sure you have to worry about it in dungeons, but that's any game, including the unVanilla WoW...

    image
  • AmanaAmana New York, NYPosts: 2,534Moderator Uncommon
    Once again, please remember to stay on topic. If you have questions or comments on our review policy, there's a thread for that in Site Suggestions. And other games have their own forums.

    To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Combat: +1

    Particularly when combat is so tough. Bosses in the game’s dungeons – currently eight story-led runs through gauntlets of tough enemies, necessitating a powerful group – can feel more like a Dark Souls enemy than a World Of Warcraft foe, forcing assailants to learn attack patterns and movements, not simply their own skill rotation.

     

    I would give combat a -1 because it's strategy is revolved around twitch rather than preparation and thought.  If I wanted to have play a twitch combat game, I'd play an FPS...I play RPG's/MMORPG's because I'd rather have to think on my way to battle, before battle and during battle....I said it before, twitch/instinct is the absence of thought.  RPG's/MMORPGs, at least I thought, were more a thinking person's game than anything.  This game has destroyed this concept and set a new precident...you don't have to think to play.  To prove that, I can make a video of my 8 year old son playing the game flawlessly if you'd like.  He even uses his skill points and moves his skills over to be able to use.

    He tried to play Ryzom, Anarchy Online, AoC (even though this isnt even a thinking person's game really) and TSW and could not....died ALOT and the skill system for each (except for AoC) baffled him.

    I don't usually use my child as a psychology experiment, but this time it proved useful.

     Twitch and strategy are not mutually exclusive.  Look at Starcraft, it is basically equal parts twitch and strategy.

    I don't think GW2 is as strategical as SC (but then again no MMO is), but I don't think it's pure twitch.  There are plenty of tactics you can do in GW2 that actual require thought and oftentimes coordination.  For example, a mesmer can trait himself so that anytime people enter or exit his fields (glamors) they get a stack of confusion.

    He can then go to a busy control point and put down a portal field, and proceed to just kite everyone around as they run through the portal field (it's small) over and over again, getting 2 stacks of confusion each time, and proceed to kill themselves by attacking him.

    When I say twitch, I mean "in the moment"....the skill system in GW2 is definitely setup for "in the moment" combat.  Compare it to Ryzom, Anarchy Online or TSW where every decision you make as far as skills to choose goes and the difference is obvious.  I could spend hours trying to figure out how to properly alot points into the right places for my MA in AO.  I can spend hours trying to craft together new spells, attacks and such in Ryzom.  Took me a complete re-roll just get my skills selection right in TSW...you don't get it right and you'll know by the fact that you get pwnd every fight.  

    GW2 is plug 'n' play....don't have to worry about all the skill stuff...sure you have to worry about it in dungeons, but that's any game, including the unVanilla WoW...

     You can spend hours trying to come up with a build in GW2 as well...there are really TONS of combinations when you take into account:

    1.  Equipment (and sigils/runes on equipment)

    2.  Traits (lots of combinations here)

    3.  Skill selection

    4.  Weapon selection

    There are probably tens of thousands of different build combinations you can try and experiment with so I really don't see how GW2 is any less deep than the other games you mention.  And even once you create that build, you need to make the right decisions about when you use your skills...many of them have long cooldowns.

    And no, it's no purely reactive like you seem to indicate.  There are plenty of tactics that involve planning...like the mesmer one I mentioned before.

    The only argument I can see is that the open world stuff can (at times) be so zerged that your build really doesn't matter much.  But this is just a small part of the game.  At this point, most DEs aren't zerged.

    And your build/decisions definitely matter there.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • PsyMike3dPsyMike3d AthensPosts: 388Member Uncommon
    more like, 7/10 for me...
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Randayn



    INNOVATION – 1 : The only thing innovate would be automatic partying which is not new and therefore not innovative at all.

    Frist MMO to have no linear quests. Hearts are there just to point you in the difrection where public/dynamic events take place. NPC tells and combat circles really make things fun. First real dodge system. No gear grind, play for fun with 33 different dungeon runs. Dont pay a monthly fee with a game thats a AAA game. I could go on and on but GW2 has made enough of a foot print to be called inovative.

    This is priceless....

     

    So you can go to a different area that is for level 30 players and do DE's at level 15?  Thanks, try again please.  That was probably the most ignorant statement ever considering there were SEVERAL MMO's that have come before your "god" has that did not have or require linear quest progression.....GW2 does.


     

    Ignorant? I dont think you know the meaning of the word, so I will let you work on trying to figure that out. At level 80 I have gone back to level 30-60 zones to hang with friends and it was a blast and unlike every MMO I have played I didnt feel like I was killing grey cons in easy mode. My friends enjoyed me coming to help and it didnt feel like I was holding their hands with a top level coming to kill grey cons for them while they sent in a pot shot once in a while. This new idea for horizontal game design is awesome!!!! You dont get it then go back to your pyramid style content and wait forever for something new to do. I will stay happy in GW2.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Combat: +1

    Particularly when combat is so tough. Bosses in the game’s dungeons – currently eight story-led runs through gauntlets of tough enemies, necessitating a powerful group – can feel more like a Dark Souls enemy than a World Of Warcraft foe, forcing assailants to learn attack patterns and movements, not simply their own skill rotation.

     

    I would give combat a -1 because it's strategy is revolved around twitch rather than preparation and thought.  If I wanted to have play a twitch combat game, I'd play an FPS...I play RPG's/MMORPG's because I'd rather have to think on my way to battle, before battle and during battle....I said it before, twitch/instinct is the absence of thought.  RPG's/MMORPGs, at least I thought, were more a thinking person's game than anything.  This game has destroyed this concept and set a new precident...you don't have to think to play.  To prove that, I can make a video of my 8 year old son playing the game flawlessly if you'd like.  He even uses his skill points and moves his skills over to be able to use.

    He tried to play Ryzom, Anarchy Online, AoC (even though this isnt even a thinking person's game really) and TSW and could not....died ALOT and the skill system for each (except for AoC) baffled him.

    I don't usually use my child as a psychology experiment, but this time it proved useful.

     Twitch and strategy are not mutually exclusive.  Look at Starcraft, it is basically equal parts twitch and strategy.

    I don't think GW2 is as strategical as SC (but then again no MMO is), but I don't think it's pure twitch.  There are plenty of tactics you can do in GW2 that actual require thought and oftentimes coordination.  For example, a mesmer can trait himself so that anytime people enter or exit his fields (glamors) they get a stack of confusion.

    He can then go to a busy control point and put down a portal field, and proceed to just kite everyone around as they run through the portal field (it's small) over and over again, getting 2 stacks of confusion each time, and proceed to kill themselves by attacking him.

    When I say twitch, I mean "in the moment"....the skill system in GW2 is definitely setup for "in the moment" combat.  Compare it to Ryzom, Anarchy Online or TSW where every decision you make as far as skills to choose goes and the difference is obvious.  I could spend hours trying to figure out how to properly alot points into the right places for my MA in AO.  I can spend hours trying to craft together new spells, attacks and such in Ryzom.  Took me a complete re-roll just get my skills selection right in TSW...you don't get it right and you'll know by the fact that you get pwnd every fight.  

    GW2 is plug 'n' play....don't have to worry about all the skill stuff...sure you have to worry about it in dungeons, but that's any game, including the unVanilla WoW...

    Sorry - to me TSW was spam keys 1,2,3 and then hit 4 which is your finisher - there was no situational use and there was nothing special about the combat at all - very vanilla to me and quite awful for such an interesting atmosphere. The skill wheel is a joke and not very well thought out.

     

    GW2 is not plug and play - don't know where you get that from. If you don't use your skills right - you are dead.  I guess we are playing different games - I do see differences, especially with elementalists and mesmers - very situational and not all skills really work.

     

    We understand you don't like the game - it is obvious.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    Yes this game is innovating dosen't matter how you see it, GW2 dosen't really follow the mainstream games, they took bits here and there mixed them up and expanded on the ideas and yes I call that innovation and not  revolutionary features.

    Just one question for all you "there is no innovation at all"? you all tend to just write what the game has, never  have I read your ideas that has never EVER been seen in a game since dawn of gaming, can you guys please write me a innovating list that will work in a MMORPG and consider many gamers love to greaf and destroy, so I say please again write me a list of innovating ideas, how it will be implented and how it can work in a MMORG without imploding.

    I have also read that several people find this game very antisocial, why is that?

    Do you chat more when you are grouped in other games or are you like most gamers, speedtrhue the quest and write a short text in group chat..."thanks all, I'm off" after the quest is done?

    Are you that guy who actively write in chat asking for groups to kill this or that?

    Or are you that guy who waiting for other people to write in chat asking for groups to kill this or that?

    Now you see most people have a hard time to interact with people they never have met, so they tend not to write in chat just waiting for that special guy who have some balls to pop the question.

    On to longevity, this is highly a personal taste, if you are the one who plays 6-7 hours a day so you can bumrush to max level so you can be part of the leet 80 crew and you are not that fond of WvWvW or crafting then yes this game won't hold much longevity for you.

    If you are like me, taking my time leveling up several toons at the same time, love crafting,exploring and WvWvW then yes this game will have longvity for you.

    Ohh I forgot what's all about this Zerg talk that keeps popping up as a "valid" argument that WvWvW sucks?

    What do you want, 1v1, small 5 man rambo style open world PvP?

    WvWvW is a server battle and in battles, here it comes "gasp" there are armies (gamer term: zerg) of cource there is a big blob running around trying to capture points, and if it's a pug blob well they don't have a pissing chance against a guild blob so what's so bad about this?

    How is that any different from USA and it's allied invaded IRAQ, now that's a MASSIVE zerg.

    And lastly I have also seen some freak arguments that "hey GW2 is just like any other game out there with killing mobs, collecting stuff and mats".....well DUH..what did you expect.

    Maby you who have this argument really are looking for is no crafting, mobless and emty world and your start your toon at max level with all the bells and wizzles, or have I missed your point all together, if so,, please explain how this could be done any better.

     

    So no one could answer my questions, sad really I was hoping for some anwsers image

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Originally posted by Randayn



    INNOVATION – 1 : The only thing innovate would be automatic partying which is not new and therefore not innovative at all.


    Frist MMO to have no linear quests. Hearts are there just to point you in the difrection where public/dynamic events take place. NPC tells and combat circles really make things fun. First real dodge system. No gear grind, play for fun with 33 different dungeon runs. Dont pay a monthly fee with a game thats a AAA game. I could go on and on but GW2 has made enough of a foot print to be called inovative.

    This is priceless....

     

    So you can go to a different area that is for level 30 players and do DE's at level 15?  Thanks, try again please.  That was probably the most ignorant statement ever considering there were SEVERAL MMO's that have come before your "god" has that did not have or require linear quest progression.....GW2 does.


     

    Ignorant? I dont think you know the meaning of the word, so I will let you work on trying to figure that out. At level 80 I have gone back to level 30-60 zones to hang with friends and it was a blast and unlike every MMO I have played I didnt feel like I was killing grey cons in easy mode. My friends enjoyed me coming to help and it didnt feel like I was holding their hands with a top level coming to kill grey cons for them while they sent in a pot shot once in a while. This new idea for horizontal game design is awesome!!!! You dont get it then go back to your pyramid style content and wait forever for something new to do. I will stay happy in GW2.

    thanks for ignoring what I was saying and making your own tale...ignorant means "a lack of knowledge' which you most certainly have if you are willing to state that GW2 is the first MMO to have non-linear progression.

    GW2 is linear...sure you can go back levels, but you can't progress without leveling.  

    image
  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Combat: +1

    Particularly when combat is so tough. Bosses in the game’s dungeons – currently eight story-led runs through gauntlets of tough enemies, necessitating a powerful group – can feel more like a Dark Souls enemy than a World Of Warcraft foe, forcing assailants to learn attack patterns and movements, not simply their own skill rotation.

     

    I would give combat a -1 because it's strategy is revolved around twitch rather than preparation and thought.  If I wanted to have play a twitch combat game, I'd play an FPS...I play RPG's/MMORPG's because I'd rather have to think on my way to battle, before battle and during battle....I said it before, twitch/instinct is the absence of thought.  RPG's/MMORPGs, at least I thought, were more a thinking person's game than anything.  This game has destroyed this concept and set a new precident...you don't have to think to play.  To prove that, I can make a video of my 8 year old son playing the game flawlessly if you'd like.  He even uses his skill points and moves his skills over to be able to use.

    He tried to play Ryzom, Anarchy Online, AoC (even though this isnt even a thinking person's game really) and TSW and could not....died ALOT and the skill system for each (except for AoC) baffled him.

    I don't usually use my child as a psychology experiment, but this time it proved useful.

     Twitch and strategy are not mutually exclusive.  Look at Starcraft, it is basically equal parts twitch and strategy.

    I don't think GW2 is as strategical as SC (but then again no MMO is), but I don't think it's pure twitch.  There are plenty of tactics you can do in GW2 that actual require thought and oftentimes coordination.  For example, a mesmer can trait himself so that anytime people enter or exit his fields (glamors) they get a stack of confusion.

    He can then go to a busy control point and put down a portal field, and proceed to just kite everyone around as they run through the portal field (it's small) over and over again, getting 2 stacks of confusion each time, and proceed to kill themselves by attacking him.

    When I say twitch, I mean "in the moment"....the skill system in GW2 is definitely setup for "in the moment" combat.  Compare it to Ryzom, Anarchy Online or TSW where every decision you make as far as skills to choose goes and the difference is obvious.  I could spend hours trying to figure out how to properly alot points into the right places for my MA in AO.  I can spend hours trying to craft together new spells, attacks and such in Ryzom.  Took me a complete re-roll just get my skills selection right in TSW...you don't get it right and you'll know by the fact that you get pwnd every fight.  

    GW2 is plug 'n' play....don't have to worry about all the skill stuff...sure you have to worry about it in dungeons, but that's any game, including the unVanilla WoW...

    Sorry - to me TSW was spam keys 1,2,3 and then hit 4 which is your finisher - there was no situational use and there was nothing special about the combat at all - very vanilla to me and quite awful for such an interesting atmosphere. The skill wheel is a joke and not very well thought out.

     

    GW2 is not plug and play - don't know where you get that from. If you don't use your skills right - you are dead.  I guess we are playing different games - I do see differences, especially with elementalists and mesmers - very situational and not all skills really work.

     

    We understand you don't like the game - it is obvious.

    The game, as just a game, is not bad.  The idea that it can be called an MMORPG and considered one of the best MMORPG's is a complete farce.  

    As for combat, you are talking about while in combat.  Not out of combat preperations.  Do you mind commenting on Ryzom and Anarchy Online as well?  Yes, TSW isn't as good as AO or Ryzom, but the skill wheel offers ALOT more depth than GW2 skill progression (if you can call it that).

    Worrying more about what happens while in combat is more an FPS mentality.  Again, Im an RPG'er, not an FPS'er...if I want to play FPS's or action games I will, but when I play and RPG, Im hoping it will play like an RPG, MMO or otherwise.

    image
  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by Randayn

    GW2 is linear...sure you can go back levels, but you can't progress without leveling.  

     

    If GW2 is linear as you say then RIFT,WOW,LOTRO,AoC,EQ2,TSW,STO,SWTOR are on rails.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Combat: +1

    Particularly when combat is so tough. Bosses in the game’s dungeons – currently eight story-led runs through gauntlets of tough enemies, necessitating a powerful group – can feel more like a Dark Souls enemy than a World Of Warcraft foe, forcing assailants to learn attack patterns and movements, not simply their own skill rotation.

     

    I would give combat a -1 because it's strategy is revolved around twitch rather than preparation and thought.  If I wanted to have play a twitch combat game, I'd play an FPS...I play RPG's/MMORPG's because I'd rather have to think on my way to battle, before battle and during battle....I said it before, twitch/instinct is the absence of thought.  RPG's/MMORPGs, at least I thought, were more a thinking person's game than anything.  This game has destroyed this concept and set a new precident...you don't have to think to play.  To prove that, I can make a video of my 8 year old son playing the game flawlessly if you'd like.  He even uses his skill points and moves his skills over to be able to use.

    He tried to play Ryzom, Anarchy Online, AoC (even though this isnt even a thinking person's game really) and TSW and could not....died ALOT and the skill system for each (except for AoC) baffled him.

    I don't usually use my child as a psychology experiment, but this time it proved useful.

     Twitch and strategy are not mutually exclusive.  Look at Starcraft, it is basically equal parts twitch and strategy.

    I don't think GW2 is as strategical as SC (but then again no MMO is), but I don't think it's pure twitch.  There are plenty of tactics you can do in GW2 that actual require thought and oftentimes coordination.  For example, a mesmer can trait himself so that anytime people enter or exit his fields (glamors) they get a stack of confusion.

    He can then go to a busy control point and put down a portal field, and proceed to just kite everyone around as they run through the portal field (it's small) over and over again, getting 2 stacks of confusion each time, and proceed to kill themselves by attacking him.

    When I say twitch, I mean "in the moment"....the skill system in GW2 is definitely setup for "in the moment" combat.  Compare it to Ryzom, Anarchy Online or TSW where every decision you make as far as skills to choose goes and the difference is obvious.  I could spend hours trying to figure out how to properly alot points into the right places for my MA in AO.  I can spend hours trying to craft together new spells, attacks and such in Ryzom.  Took me a complete re-roll just get my skills selection right in TSW...you don't get it right and you'll know by the fact that you get pwnd every fight.  

    GW2 is plug 'n' play....don't have to worry about all the skill stuff...sure you have to worry about it in dungeons, but that's any game, including the unVanilla WoW...

     You can spend hours trying to come up with a build in GW2 as well...there are really TONS of combinations when you take into account:

    1.  Equipment (and sigils/runes on equipment)

    2.  Traits (lots of combinations here)

    3.  Skill selection

    4.  Weapon selection

    There are probably tens of thousands of different build combinations you can try and experiment with so I really don't see how GW2 is any less deep than the other games you mention.  And even once you create that build, you need to make the right decisions about when you use your skills...many of them have long cooldowns.

    And no, it's no purely reactive like you seem to indicate.  There are plenty of tactics that involve planning...like the mesmer one I mentioned before.

    The only argument I can see is that the open world stuff can (at times) be so zerged that your build really doesn't matter much.  But this is just a small part of the game.  At this point, most DEs aren't zerged.

    And your build/decisions definitely matter there.

    I think we're on the same page then.  As far as open world, I never once had to worry about skills and such....dungeons don't count though, because as I said, you must develop a strategy in any dungeon in any game....if that wasn't the case then the developers should feel ashamed of themselves.

    But why would anyone want an open world that can be run through spamming any button? (my son has done this and to my amazement, did not die....this was with my 22 norn warrior I dont play anymore)

    image
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