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Raph Koster on SWTOR

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Comments

  • YakamomotoYakamomoto Osaka, ARPosts: 363Member

    Bioware should hire this guy and give him the  job of James Ohlen.

    Then shut SWTOR down.

    One year later, SWTOR relaunch

    2 million subs

  • JackdogJackdog Charleston, SCPosts: 6,344Member

    Obviously a lot of people were not there for SWG's launch or are forgetting the server crashes, teh great jedi grind, the class of the month rotation, the unfinished classes...still pissed over the Bio Engineer farce myself. The one character limit...etc etc etc

    Game had a great population at launch but by the third month 2/3 rds of the people had said adios. Famous post on the beta boardds " hey it is just like Star Wars , just missing the Stars and the Wars. Raph Koster is exactly where he deserves to be, working on his obscure games no one will ever hear of or play

    BTW I am not a SWToR fan either . Betaed this turkey for a year, said no thanks at launch but let a freind talk me into buying in March subbed for 2 months just to remeber what I hated about it

    I miss DAoC

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    So.. SWG 2.... When?

    :D

    Oh how I whish for that day to come.

    SWG pre cu > all the crappy MMOs of today.

    Yeah, SWG was the best game ever which its massive player numbers showed... Or not.

    SWG did some things really right, like crafting and player owned stores. It also had a lot of features not so great.

    A better coded version of SWG with new graphics still wouldnt reach half a million subs, it would take more.

    misquote.

  • stevebmbsqdstevebmbsqd Orlando, FLPosts: 448Member
    Originally posted by Jackdog

    Obviously a lot of people were not there for SWG's launch or are forgetting the server crashes, teh great jedi grind, the class of the month rotation, the unfinished classes...still pissed over the Bio Engineer farce myself. The one character limit...etc etc etc

    Game had a great population at launch but by the third month 2/3 rds of the people had said adios. Famous post on the beta boardds " hey it is just like Star Wars , just missing the Stars and the Wars. Raph Koster is exactly where he deserves to be, working on his obscure games no one will ever hear of or play

    BTW I am not a SWToR fan either . Betaed this turkey for a year, said no thanks at launch but let a freind talk me into buying in March subbed for 2 months just to remeber what I hated about it

    Actually that isn't quite true. Raph Koster talked about how for the first six months SWG was experiencing a growth until they were forced to implement Jedi by Xmas. You can see it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifhmDVWszbQ The subs never declined until people started getting holocrons and figured the system out. He relates that the thing about SWG that made it great was you played the way you wanted to play. The player base was dependent on each other. It was a true community with a real economy. When people were forced to play other professions that they didn't want to play and the fact that it ruined the games "ecology".

  • tixylixtixylix gfff, TNPosts: 1,208Member Uncommon
    I brought up the point of voice acting before launch and how it'll become too hard to keep adding content that is fully voice acted... I got flamed by fanbois. 
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Lowdos
    The OP should consider a job writing for the Daily Mail. (UK tabloid)

    Chuckle.  On this forum, he is far from alone.

    Sometimes I think we should all be writing for celebrity gossip rags.  The cheap newsprint variety.  Back pages, after the Hemorrhoid and Viagra ads.

    But then we could tell the world about Raph Koster's Alien Love Babies!

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Lowdos

    Quite the exaggeration, there.

    And it would appear that all MMOs are slowly dying, one way or another.

    Just the shallow WoW clones that go for singleplayer experiences instead of what MMOs do best.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member Common
    Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
    Originally posted by Jackdog

    Obviously a lot of people were not there for SWG's launch or are forgetting the server crashes, teh great jedi grind, the class of the month rotation, the unfinished classes...still pissed over the Bio Engineer farce myself. The one character limit...etc etc etc

    Game had a great population at launch but by the third month 2/3 rds of the people had said adios. Famous post on the beta boardds " hey it is just like Star Wars , just missing the Stars and the Wars. Raph Koster is exactly where he deserves to be, working on his obscure games no one will ever hear of or play

    BTW I am not a SWToR fan either . Betaed this turkey for a year, said no thanks at launch but let a freind talk me into buying in March subbed for 2 months just to remeber what I hated about it

    Actually that isn't quite true. Raph Koster talked about how for the first six months SWG was experiencing a growth until they were forced to implement Jedi by Xmas. You can see it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifhmDVWszbQ The subs never declined until people started getting holocrons and figured the system out. He relates that the thing about SWG that made it great was you played the way you wanted to play. The player base was dependent on each other. It was a true community with a real economy. When people were forced to play other professions that they didn't want to play and the fact that it ruined the games "ecology".

    I agree. That was just one of many stupid moves by SOE. 

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • LoverNoFighterLoverNoFighter Star CItyPosts: 294Member
    Originally posted by ktanner3
    Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
    Originally posted by Jackdog

    Obviously a lot of people were not there for SWG's launch or are forgetting the server crashes, teh great jedi grind, the class of the month rotation, the unfinished classes...still pissed over the Bio Engineer farce myself. The one character limit...etc etc etc

    Game had a great population at launch but by the third month 2/3 rds of the people had said adios. Famous post on the beta boardds " hey it is just like Star Wars , just missing the Stars and the Wars. Raph Koster is exactly where he deserves to be, working on his obscure games no one will ever hear of or play

    BTW I am not a SWToR fan either . Betaed this turkey for a year, said no thanks at launch but let a freind talk me into buying in March subbed for 2 months just to remeber what I hated about it

    Actually that isn't quite true. Raph Koster talked about how for the first six months SWG was experiencing a growth until they were forced to implement Jedi by Xmas. You can see it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifhmDVWszbQ The subs never declined until people started getting holocrons and figured the system out. He relates that the thing about SWG that made it great was you played the way you wanted to play. The player base was dependent on each other. It was a true community with a real economy. When people were forced to play other professions that they didn't want to play and the fact that it ruined the games "ecology".

    I agree. That was just one of many stupid moves by SOE. 

    Tbh not being able to play as a Jedi in a SW game is kinda lame.

     

  • DeeweDeewe Long Beach, CAPosts: 1,965Member
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    So.. SWG 2.... When?

    :D

    Oh how I whish for that day to come.

    SWG pre cu > all the crappy MMOs of today.

    Yeah, SWG was the best game ever which its massive player numbers showed... Or not.

    SWG did some things really right, like crafting and player owned stores. It also had a lot of features not so great.

    A better coded version of SWG with new graphics still wouldnt reach half a million subs, it would take more.

    I'd say it can reach 500k players with multiple accounts each ;)

     

    However a SWG II game would need to have themed content too. The sandbox part would be the topping and a nice one promising long term subs.

  • Don't really care what some guy who thougth space wasn't a big part of Star Wars.
  • KyngBillsKyngBills Charlotte, NCPosts: 449Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
    Originally posted by ktanner3
    Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
    Originally posted by Jackdog

    Obviously a lot of people were not there for SWG's launch or are forgetting the server crashes, teh great jedi grind, the class of the month rotation, the unfinished classes...still pissed over the Bio Engineer farce myself. The one character limit...etc etc etc

    Game had a great population at launch but by the third month 2/3 rds of the people had said adios. Famous post on the beta boardds " hey it is just like Star Wars , just missing the Stars and the Wars. Raph Koster is exactly where he deserves to be, working on his obscure games no one will ever hear of or play

    BTW I am not a SWToR fan either . Betaed this turkey for a year, said no thanks at launch but let a freind talk me into buying in March subbed for 2 months just to remeber what I hated about it

    Actually that isn't quite true. Raph Koster talked about how for the first six months SWG was experiencing a growth until they were forced to implement Jedi by Xmas. You can see it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifhmDVWszbQ The subs never declined until people started getting holocrons and figured the system out. He relates that the thing about SWG that made it great was you played the way you wanted to play. The player base was dependent on each other. It was a true community with a real economy. When people were forced to play other professions that they didn't want to play and the fact that it ruined the games "ecology".

    I agree. That was just one of many stupid moves by SOE. 

    Tbh not being able to play as a Jedi in a SW game is kinda lame.

     

    Completely agree...And I had no problem earnign it with the Village grind...I think the CU brought a very good path to Jedi in the Game...Everyone I played with loved it...When they took that away with the NGE, everyone I played with quit...Can't speak for others...But my Guild was thriving in the CU, and we were all grinding the Village together and loving it...image

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by KyngBills
    Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
    Originally posted by ktanner3
    Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
    Originally posted by Jackdog

    Obviously a lot of people were not there for SWG's launch or are forgetting the server crashes, teh great jedi grind, the class of the month rotation, the unfinished classes...still pissed over the Bio Engineer farce myself. The one character limit...etc etc etc

    Game had a great population at launch but by the third month 2/3 rds of the people had said adios. Famous post on the beta boardds " hey it is just like Star Wars , just missing the Stars and the Wars. Raph Koster is exactly where he deserves to be, working on his obscure games no one will ever hear of or play

    BTW I am not a SWToR fan either . Betaed this turkey for a year, said no thanks at launch but let a freind talk me into buying in March subbed for 2 months just to remeber what I hated about it

    Actually that isn't quite true. Raph Koster talked about how for the first six months SWG was experiencing a growth until they were forced to implement Jedi by Xmas. You can see it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifhmDVWszbQ The subs never declined until people started getting holocrons and figured the system out. He relates that the thing about SWG that made it great was you played the way you wanted to play. The player base was dependent on each other. It was a true community with a real economy. When people were forced to play other professions that they didn't want to play and the fact that it ruined the games "ecology".

    I agree. That was just one of many stupid moves by SOE. 

    Tbh not being able to play as a Jedi in a SW game is kinda lame.

     

    Completely agree...And I had no problem earnign it with the Village grind...I think the CU brought a very good path to Jedi in the Game...Everyone I played with loved it...When they took that away with the NGE, everyone I played with quit...Can't speak for others...But my Guild was thriving in the CU, and we were all grinding the Village together and loving it...image

    The Jedi system in SWG was one of the worst features of the game and kept many far far away from it. Not being able to play a Jedi makes sense during the time of the Empire. If the game was set during the Republic, maybe. Clone Wars? But not during the Empire.

    And "that guy that didn't think space was important" delivered one of the best expansions I've ever seen in MMO history, Jump to Lightspeed, which added another game on top of the one already there.

  • JobeArthurJobeArthur seattle, WAPosts: 38Member

    I like Raph but....

    Im tired of his long winded pseudo intellectual garbage. I have more respect for the guys in the trenches trying to make the games good or bad over some pretentious wind-bag who will talk for hours but will never offend anyone or say anything at all in fact.

    Just go to one of his things that he is a guest speaker at.. you will actually leave feeling like a dumber person for sitting through that endless nonsense!

    Until dude gets back into the MMO game and tries to create something there is no reason to talk about it or play the theory crafting whack sessions. Sad to see him become this worse than an armchair general type. Seriosly love the guys work in SWG and it pisses me off a bit that he is doing this social media bs when he obviously has the skills and intelligence to do something great..

    Sorry Raph but STFU already..

  • azonic69azonic69 quebec, QCPosts: 56Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    So.. SWG 2.... When?

     

    :D

    Oh how I whish for that day to come.

    SWG pre cu > all the crappy MMOs of today.

    Yea SWG pre cu was so good that they decided to completely change the game to something else that's how good it was. I'm tired of all the SWG pre cu was the greatest crap. Stop it, the game had it's chance and guess what..... IT FAILED, on every possible level, you might have enjoyed it and I am sure a lot did but guess what it was not enough.

     

    So please just stop posting how SWG was awesome because history and facts proves otherwise. Again you and a few thousands of others might have loved the game and that is great but you were a MINORITY. If the game would have been that great I can guarantee you that it would have been a smashing success.

     

    Just like SWTOR, SWG had one the most known and loved IP, but just like SWTOR it was not a good game for the majority, and like almost anything else majority wins.

     

    So please, again, stop with SWG pre CU was SOOOOOO awesome.

     

    EDIT: Not only did it fail once but it managed to fail twice with the relaunch, I don't know about you but i'd say that a game that had 2 shots and failed both times is not a good game.

  • SandboxSandbox SwedenPosts: 295Member Uncommon
    Just for the record, the village of Aurilia was introduced in August 2004, so it was not a feature of the CU.
  • CasualMakerCasualMaker Somerset, NJPosts: 870Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azonic69
    Yea SWG pre cu was so good that they decided to completely change the game to something else that's how good it was. I'm tired of all the SWG pre cu was the greatest crap. Stop it, the game had it's chance and guess what..... IT FAILED, on every possible level, you might have enjoyed it and I am sure a lot did but guess what it was not enough.

    So please just stop posting how SWG was awesome because history and facts proves otherwise. Again you and a few thousands of others might have loved the game and that is great but you were a MINORITY. If the game would have been that great I can guarantee you that it would have been a smashing success.

    SWG was one of the top MMOs of its time. So no, it wasn't anything like a failure. The problem that got us CU and NGE was not some basic fault in SWG, it was simply that WOW re-wrote the metric for success. Suddenly, a bunch of greedy executives were defining WOW as "normal" (instead of the fluke it clearly was), and redefined their own games as failures for not reaching that "new normal". So they tried to grab WOW-numbers by changing their own original properties into WOW-alikes. Which wrecked them.

  • noncleynoncley LondonPosts: 648Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CasualMaker
    Originally posted by azonic69
    Yea SWG pre cu was so good that they decided to completely change the game to something else that's how good it was. I'm tired of all the SWG pre cu was the greatest crap. Stop it, the game had it's chance and guess what..... IT FAILED, on every possible level, you might have enjoyed it and I am sure a lot did but guess what it was not enough.

    So please just stop posting how SWG was awesome because history and facts proves otherwise. Again you and a few thousands of others might have loved the game and that is great but you were a MINORITY. If the game would have been that great I can guarantee you that it would have been a smashing success.

    SWG was one of the top MMOs of its time. So no, it wasn't anything like a failure. The problem that got us CU and NGE was not some basic fault in SWG, it was simply that WOW re-wrote the metric for success. Suddenly, a bunch of greedy executives were defining WOW as "normal" (instead of the fluke it clearly was), and redefined their own games as failures for not reaching that "new normal". So they tried to grab WOW-numbers by changing their own original properties into WOW-alikes. Which wrecked them.

    Crucially, Blizzard did what SOE did not - it assigned capital and resources to two key areas of gameplay: bug-fixing and combat-balancing. SOE never understood that investing in those areas was essential to the long-term future of any game.

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    So.. SWG 2.... When?

    :D

    Oh how I whish for that day to come.

    SWG pre cu > all the crappy MMOs of today.

    Yeah, SWG was the best game ever which its massive player numbers showed... Or not.

    SWG did some things really right, like crafting and player owned stores. It also had a lot of features not so great.

    A better coded version of SWG with new graphics still wouldnt reach half a million subs, it would take more.

    I'm disappointed that you countered the claim of quality where SWG is concerned by talking about how its numbers were not massive. I think those two things can be mutually exclusive, and often were.

    Games release progressively stripped of complexity, and have UIs that do everything for you. The features in SWG that were great were typically those things that allowed you to go into more depth in an aspect of play. The things that sucked were largely concerned with combat and the engine.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    I'm familiar with some of Koster's writings, and SWTOR pretty much farts in the face of every precept of what Koster preaches. The result was that Bioware created a giant peice of garbage, and Koster is being polite about it instead of saying I told you so.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    So.. SWG 2.... When?

    :D

    Oh how I whish for that day to come.

    SWG pre cu > all the crappy MMOs of today.

    Yeah, SWG was the best game ever which its massive player numbers showed... Or not.

    SWG did some things really right, like crafting and player owned stores. It also had a lot of features not so great.

    A better coded version of SWG with new graphics still wouldnt reach half a million subs, it would take more.

    I'm disappointed that you countered the claim of quality where SWG is concerned by talking about how its numbers were not massive. I think those two things can be mutually exclusive, and often were.

    Games release progressively stripped of complexity, and have UIs that do everything for you. The features in SWG that were great were typically those things that allowed you to go into more depth in an aspect of play. The things that sucked were largely concerned with combat and the engine.

    SWG held 250-300 thousand subscribers for over 2 years; a feat I doubt that SWTOR will ever achieve.

  • KyngBillsKyngBills Charlotte, NCPosts: 449Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    I'm familiar with some of Koster's writings, and SWTOR pretty much farts in the face of every precept of what Koster preaches. The result was that Bioware created a giant peice of garbage, and Koster is being polite about it instead of saying I told you so.

     

    Exactly...image

  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,082Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CasualMaker
    Originally posted by azonic69
    Yea SWG pre cu was so good that they decided to completely change the game to something else that's how good it was. I'm tired of all the SWG pre cu was the greatest crap. Stop it, the game had it's chance and guess what..... IT FAILED, on every possible level, you might have enjoyed it and I am sure a lot did but guess what it was not enough.

    So please just stop posting how SWG was awesome because history and facts proves otherwise. Again you and a few thousands of others might have loved the game and that is great but you were a MINORITY. If the game would have been that great I can guarantee you that it would have been a smashing success.

    SWG was one of the top MMOs of its time. So no, it wasn't anything like a failure. The problem that got us CU and NGE was not some basic fault in SWG, it was simply that WOW re-wrote the metric for success. Suddenly, a bunch of greedy executives were defining WOW as "normal" (instead of the fluke it clearly was), and redefined their own games as failures for not reaching that "new normal". So they tried to grab WOW-numbers by changing their own original properties into WOW-alikes. Which wrecked them.

    Largely agree. The only comment I would add is that I always had the impression that SWG was marked down as a failure before WoW launched - maybe because it failed to reach EQ1's subscription level. SWG was only a failure measured against some lofty ideal - or maybe the level of royalties being paid to LA.

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