Originally posted by sbrite10 Love how people call it anti-social.Its not anti-social.Its the people playing it.the game has all the same social systems every other MMO out there has.
Well, that's partly true. The social systems are there, but the need to use them is gone.
Take away the forcing function and many people will choose not to socialize.
Much like SWTOR, GW2 is a single-player online role playing game. Sadly, I think this might be the wave of the future for MMOs. *sniff*
Love how people call it anti-social.Its not anti-social.Its the people playing it.the game has all the same social systems every other MMO out there has.
No, it doesn't.
There's not a lot of player interedependence. There's no bonus or benefit from grouping vs auto grouping. There's no death penalty encouraging people to band together.
People almost always need tools and incentive to socialize. Left to their own devices, they'll solo and breed and antisocial atmosphere. It's happened in every MMO that's made it easier to solo than group. DAoC used to be insane group oriented and social. Then soloing became the fastest way to level and bam, no more socializing at all.
The game shapes the players, believe it or not.
Um yes there is.You get bonus EXP for being in Manually created groups.Its the People my friend not the game.Yes it offers a way for those who want to solo to do that but it gives equal time to those who want to group and gives them bonus EXP for doing it.There are any number of ways to group with people be it with a guild or a PUG.If you dont do either its your fault your not being social not the games.Pretty simple and starightforward.Everyone expects these games to hold there hands these days.If thats what you want go play WOW.
Love how people call it anti-social.Its not anti-social.Its the people playing it.the game has all the same social systems every other MMO out there has.
No, it doesn't.
There's not a lot of player interedependence. There's no bonus or benefit from grouping vs auto grouping. There's no death penalty encouraging people to band together.
People almost always need tools and incentive to socialize. Left to their own devices, they'll solo and breed and antisocial atmosphere. It's happened in every MMO that's made it easier to solo than group. DAoC used to be insane group oriented and social. Then soloing became the fastest way to level and bam, no more socializing at all.
The game shapes the players, believe it or not.
Um yes there is.You get bonus EXP for being in Manually created groups. Leveling is so quick and the bonus is so slight that this isn't an incentive to anyone Its the People my friend not the game. Over 13 years of observing how social behavior shifts based on a game's mechanics, I beg to differ. A game can have the same people in it, as DAoC did, but as soon as the mechanics shift, the mentality of the gamer shifts. Yes it offers a way for those who want to solo to do that but it gives equal time to those who want to group and gives them bonus EXP for doing it. Let's be real here, there's a lot more reason to solo than to group. A smigen of bonus xp isn't real incentive. There are any number of ways to group with people be it with a guild or a PUG.If you dont do either its your fault your not being social not the games. I'm being plenty social, but no one else is. Most people don't even respond to chat, they just carry on like bots. Pretty simple and starightforward.Everyone expects these games to hold there hands these days.If thats what you want go play WOW. GW2 holds your hand more than most MMOs, that's not the issue here.
I'd say it was more a grandfather to it...kinda like Iggy Pop or the Rolling Stones or even Chuck Berry is to Punk Rock....they kinda made the first push. I believe GW2 has gone and pushed it over the edge....to the point of no return. Now we can all be plugged in with no sight of a red pill anywhere...
lol melodrama much?
not at all...ratings mean alot more than you might make them out to mean....not to the gamer, but to the companies vying for power in the MMO industry, yes. Why? Because they aren't stupid....and they want to make money. They will make what they think people want, which ratings play a big part in. I don't think it's melodramatic to say what I said above....I think it's realistic.
and if companies are going to start going the way of no quest hubs and non raid type endgame and actually trying something new for an overall game design I welcome it with open arms instead of suffering through the same old same old every year.. GW2 is a breath of fresh air to me and many themepark fans
I disagree on no quest hubs. Hubs are where you can get a quest. not necessarily where a person is to give you a quest. There are plenty of "hubs" in GW2. Also, addition by subtraction doesn't work in this instance.
If a game is made to reach max level quickly (within a month) then you can't just say, "Uh...we're gonna be cool...and...and not have an endgame!!!"....and expect loud roars and cheers. why remove something that didn't need to be removed? Especially when no new "innovations" were presented to take it's place?
game was only made to reach 80 fast if that's how you want to play it(which is fine).. i'm sitting at 191 hours and highest level character is 44.. also what aside from raids is GW2 lacking in the endgame department?
And what are the "hubs" of GW2?
walk into an area and a quest will be available...unless the enemy mob is a boss that's been set to move around or it's a quest where you protect a dude and his donkey, that particular quest will always be in that particular place, thus creating a quest hub.
game was made to reach 80 fast. period. I can open and shut a peanut butter jar for 15 extra minutes, doesnt mean the jar was only meant to be open fast if I want it to.....
It's not for everyone but the review summed it up perfectly for how I feel about the game.
There is a lot of polish in this game and its evident with all the underwater elements. It is another world and not just tacked on.
Besides gameplay etc. The biggest break through is the streamlined approach to inventory. I swear I have quit games before because of the running around to store stuff. Being able to harvest and send to bank, use trade anywhere, sell anywhere, access mats from bank at craft station etc etc.
All of this has taken away the boredom of running back and forth every 5 min. How many times do you need to quit a dungeon run because you have no fking inventory space!!!!!
I just want to finish work and get home and play my Engineer...
GW2 has no longevity. No MMO will ever again have longevity until(or unless, it could never happen successfully) there is one that comes out with ever changing user created content. If that does not happen there will never be another MMO that people do not gobble up and spit out and move on.
funny enough, they just posted a blog today about how their live teams will be doing just that.
Innovation has 1 definition and can be easily identified. There is nothing subjective about my statement. This game does not bring with it "innovation"....If I go and change the curtain on my window from ruffled to straight and short, does that mean I get a score of 10 for innovation?? Well, that's exactly what GW2 did, as well as follow in the footsteps of WOW by dumbing down the genre even more than it already was dumbed down.
Don´t worry, just take another MMO site off the credibility list, like I just did.
Innovation 10, woah this is a real kicker.
Thanks to this review, it´s good to know there will never be something else or better to expect from the MMO genre.
If GW2 is really the absolute "10" peak of innovation I guess it´s time to quit the genre alltogether and say goodbye to egg collecting, cow feeding and zergs. At the end I never liked Facebook games either.
By giving it a 10 for innovation he's not saying that's all the innovation any game is ever going to have from here on out. He's saying the differences this particular game has over current games is way better than pretty much anything he has seen to this point. That doesn't mean a game won't come along in the future and be just as innovative as GW2 in a different way.
Besides, his overall score was 9.3. That leaves room for improvement, I'd say.
But, if disagreeing with someone over how they rate a game makes you want to quit playing MMOs, I'll be glad I won't run into you in an MMO in the future.
the issue still remains that you cannot give a game a score for innovation unless they have actually innovated. Jump quests and multi-user mat nodes....that's what they innovated. Nothing else was a brand new idea brought to the forefront.
Don't say DE's because they are still quests (some of the worst actually) and you still have to go somewhere (a hub) to get them, you just dont have to talk with anyone. Don't say personal story....SWTOR anyone? Don't say lack of trinity...I played Champions Online at launch and there was no trinity....it was a zerg/respawn fest much like GW2.
So please tell me what they've brought to the table that is entirely new and innovative? Please....
Apparently you didn't read the definition of innovative that I posted earlier. It's not only something new that qualifies, it's something different. Entirely new would be inventive, not just innovative (although that would still qualify as innovative).
What GW2 brings to the table as innovative isn't that they get rid of questing altogether. How would that be done in a MMO anyway? It's how they present the questing that is innovative. 1. They give you a choice about whether you even want to do the quests (DEs are not meant to be quests, they are events that happen in the world). You don't have to do the hearts at all if you don't want to. There are other ways to level. 2. When you do the hearts (quests), you don't even have to talk to the NPC to get the quest, just go to the area. 3. You have a choice in how you want to complete the quest; you can kill x, gather y, feed z, or a mix of all three. 4. You don't have to go back to the NPC to get your reward, it comes automatically once you fulfill the quest.
That's 4 innovations in just one aspect of the game. Questing. That's what makes it innovative, in part. Earlier in this thread, I listed a bunch of other innovations the game has; I'm not going to list them again here.
Innovation is not necessarily doing something completely new, it's also doing something in a different way. GW2 does much of what has been so familiar in MMOs in a different way. That's innovative by definition.
Rift/WAR - DE's got their birthrite from these games...I sure didnt have to talk to the NPC's to start a PQ or to start a rift.
Ryzom - gave options on what you'd rather do in order to complete quests
Any Sandbox game and some Themepark games - dont require you to do quests to level
Presentation alone is not innovation. Presentation utilzing a new method is innovation. There are no new method's in GW2....cept for jump quests...that's their claim to faim...gratz ANET
Innovation has 1 definition and can be easily identified. There is nothing subjective about my statement. This game does not bring with it "innovation"....If I go and change the curtain on my window from ruffled to straight and short, does that mean I get a score of 10 for innovation?? Well, that's exactly what GW2 did, as well as follow in the footsteps of WOW by dumbing down the genre even more than it already was dumbed down.
Don´t worry, just take another MMO site off the credibility list, like I just did.
Innovation 10, woah this is a real kicker.
Thanks to this review, it´s good to know there will never be something else or better to expect from the MMO genre.
If GW2 is really the absolute "10" peak of innovation I guess it´s time to quit the genre alltogether and say goodbye to egg collecting, cow feeding and zergs. At the end I never liked Facebook games either.
By giving it a 10 for innovation he's not saying that's all the innovation any game is ever going to have from here on out. He's saying the differences this particular game has over current games is way better than pretty much anything he has seen to this point. That doesn't mean a game won't come along in the future and be just as innovative as GW2 in a different way.
Besides, his overall score was 9.3. That leaves room for improvement, I'd say.
But, if disagreeing with someone over how they rate a game makes you want to quit playing MMOs, I'll be glad I won't run into you in an MMO in the future.
the issue still remains that you cannot give a game a score for innovation unless they have actually innovated. Jump quests and multi-user mat nodes....that's what they innovated. Nothing else was a brand new idea brought to the forefront.
Don't say DE's because they are still quests (some of the worst actually) and you still have to go somewhere (a hub) to get them, you just dont have to talk with anyone. Don't say personal story....SWTOR anyone? Don't say lack of trinity...I played Champions Online at launch and there was no trinity....it was a zerg/respawn fest much like GW2.
So please tell me what they've brought to the table that is entirely new and innovative? Please....
Apparently you didn't read the definition of innovative that I posted earlier. It's not only something new that qualifies, it's something different. Entirely new would be inventive, not just innovative (although that would still qualify as innovative).
What GW2 brings to the table as innovative isn't that they get rid of questing altogether. How would that be done in a MMO anyway? It's how they present the questing that is innovative. 1. They give you a choice about whether you even want to do the quests (DEs are not meant to be quests, they are events that happen in the world). You don't have to do the hearts at all if you don't want to. There are other ways to level. 2. When you do the hearts (quests), you don't even have to talk to the NPC to get the quest, just go to the area. 3. You have a choice in how you want to complete the quest; you can kill x, gather y, feed z, or a mix of all three. 4. You don't have to go back to the NPC to get your reward, it comes automatically once you fulfill the quest.
That's 4 innovations in just one aspect of the game. Questing. That's what makes it innovative, in part. Earlier in this thread, I listed a bunch of other innovations the game has; I'm not going to list them again here.
Innovation is not necessarily doing something completely new, it's also doing something in a different way. GW2 does much of what has been so familiar in MMOs in a different way. That's innovative by definition.
Rift/WAR - DE's got their birthrite from these games...I sure didnt have to talk to the NPC's to start a PQ or to start a rift.
Ryzom - gave options on what you'd rather do in order to complete quests
Any Sandbox game and some Themepark games - dont require you to do quests to level
Presentation alone is not innovation. Presentation utilzing a new method is innovation. There are no new method's in GW2....cept for jump quests...that's their claim to faim...gratz ANET
Don't bother, they don't understand the distinction, and think the only MMos to exist before GW2 were WoWclones, and EQ.
Good review. Has been fun to read. GW2 is the best MMO at time of release I ever played. (played all the big one since '99) Now they can show us over the next years, if they can keep up this title. Best development so far had EQ2 - for the first years. I really hope ArenaNet can stand up to it.
What GW2 brings to the table as innovative isn't that they get rid of questing altogether. How would that be done in a MMO anyway? It's how they present the questing that is innovative. 1. They give you a choice about whether you even want to do the quests (DEs are not meant to be quests, they are events that happen in the world). You don't have to do the hearts at all if you don't want to. There are other ways to level. 2. When you do the hearts (quests), you don't even have to talk to the NPC to get the quest, just go to the area. 3. You have a choice in how you want to complete the quest; you can kill x, gather y, feed z, or a mix of all three. 4. You don't have to go back to the NPC to get your reward, it comes automatically once you fulfill the quest.
That's 4 innovations in just one aspect of the game. Questing. That's what makes it innovative, in part. Earlier in this thread, I listed a bunch of other innovations the game has; I'm not going to list them again here.
Innovation is not necessarily doing something completely new, it's also doing something in a different way. GW2 does much of what has been so familiar in MMOs in a different way. That's innovative by definition.
Rift/WAR - DE's got their birthrite from these games...I sure didnt have to talk to the NPC's to start a PQ or to start a rift.
Ryzom - gave options on what you'd rather do in order to complete quests
Any Sandbox game and some Themepark games - dont require you to do quests to level
Presentation alone is not innovation. Presentation utilzing a new method is innovation. There are no new method's in GW2....cept for jump quests...that's their claim to faim...gratz ANET
Don't bother, they don't understand the distinction, and think the only MMos to exist before GW2 were WoWclones, and EQ.
Look, tire companies, bleech producers and tissue manufacturers "innovate" (sell) every year, better handling tread, brighter whites, and softer sqaures, every year.
GW2's largest innovation was in marketing. "Redefining" (selling) gold buying, payed beta weekends, cash shops, game world (three separate worlds instead of one cohessive), and end game (exact same level cap structure as any other mmo, without the content that supports more tiers.)
You can debate innovation in questing all you want. I think GW2's biggest innovation is in the area above. These things will be GW2's legacy.
Read 'Ooh! loads of advertising money, course we will give you a high score'
And meanwhile, SWTOR gets a high score in innovation and Vanguard gets... a 6. The reviewer even says "Well theres lots of innovation in Vanguard, but its so complicated!"
No, it's the first mmo where the entire quest system does not revolve around talking to npcs to start and gather the reward for quests. It's the first mmo where the entire quest system offers multiple paths to completion for every non story based quest.
And for the love of god please stop talking like you have some special knowledge about early mmos. I played Lineage very early on and while it was an amazing game, it like all the early mmos had a ton of huge flaws. I'm so glad that modern games don't try and strictly implement those mechanics. So please speak just for yourself and stop speaking for the rest of us who played old school games. You don't represent my point of view at all .
- signed an old school gamer who played mmos way before wow and thinks you're opinion is whacked.
My opinion over what is innovative is whacked? We're not dealing with opinions, we're dealing with facts. And the fact is, people claim GW2 inventing some things that they didn't. Just like pretend try to claim WoW invented rest experience or the auction house.
Nope you weren't defending the bad parts. You were glossing over them, while comparing the good parts to the bad parts of newer games.
Wrong, I was comparing questing in one game to questing in another. I was comparing RvR in one game to RvR in another.
I think I'm onto something here. Most people that are so enamored of this game seem to be WoW burnouts ( having spent years and years playing WoW). Thus, the slighest change from those years of experience for them is being viewed as "innovation." (Additionally, I think these same people are the ones crying "WoW Clone" so much)
I, for one, spent (at most) 2 or so months playing WoW and never experienced that symptom. Be interesting to see how many people really like this game who didn't play WoW for years on end....
Just a theory, of course.
I'll be a data point for you. I love Guild Wars 2 and I never played WoW.
Read 'Ooh! loads of advertising money, course we will give you a high score'
And meanwhile, SWTOR gets a high score in innovation and Vanguard gets... a 6. The reviewer even says "Well theres lots of innovation in Vanguard, but its so complicated!"
I know. That 6 was entirely over generous. A MTG style trading card game in the middle of an MMO. What the hell was that about. It's a new innovation, and is a very fun and rewarding way to get additional lore of the story. It sbetter than just being fed endless text that doesn't amount to anything. Anything that lets me get NPCs to poison one another via dialogue battles is an awesome system. It was also developed in the same year EQ2 got LoN. Wrong. By your definition of innovation - it isn't. Considering no other game has it even now, yes it is. Vanguard was an EQ2 ripoff clone and a fairly boring buggy one at that. Vanguard is more of an EverQuest 1 clone than an EQ2 clone. EQ2 was focused on instances and casual gameplay. Vanguard was not. And know why its similar to EQ1? Because the guy who designed EQ1 designed Vanguard. It's almost embarrassing to mention that game alongside the others in this thread. How do you figure? Before GW2 came along it was the best PvE MMO on the market.
Ryzom would have been a better choice to champion. They actually innovated the idea of user generated content in their MMO.
But sure, lets pretend Diplomacy was Vanguards only innovation.
Found it quite dull. I don't see where the innovation is (other than grouping mechanics) the GUI is an unscaled mess like something from "junior angler". It's worth 7.5 or 8 and it's better than SWTOR, but it's hardly a great game. Yes you "can" roam all over the place, but there is no purpose to it, so that soon loses its appeal. You can still get ganked by high level mobs if you roam in to the wrong area - in fact in that regard you can roam wherever you want in any game [and get killed for your trouble] so not sure where the "innovation and freedom" that's talked about here is with that. It's ok. UNderneath the hoodm crafting is just the same as any other game as well, character customization is appaling (everyone looks the same at about every level, "Oh Miss Blunderbuss, you have slighly stripier trousers" Yip..flipping...eee. COntrols are a complete screw up, "sick 'o' vision" camera movement with "vomit 'o' matic" inertia and acceleration at every setting you try doesn't help either. Movement is like trying to coax a pea up you livingroom wall using chopsticks...while wearing boxing gloves.
All that can be fixed though I reckon, but giving the game suc h a high score for polish? Nahh - it just aint so.
Wworth the money, and will do well. but it's not a classic. 70% of the fanbois on this thread won't be playing this game after Xmas that's for sure.
I always thought that mmorpg.com, gamespot, ... and many other "main site" reviews are biased and in a lot of ways very "smelly". But I always told myself that I am exagerrating. This review proves my theory, for me.
Such blatant "boot licking" as is this review is simply not professional for a reviewer on a game site of such caliber as is "mmorpg.com". Are you gettin paid by them?
I mean, I like the game. Is has some really great parts.But this goes much more than liking, its almost worship. But I don't know who he worships. GW2 or ArenaNet?
Is it just a coincidence that hise stellar review is published at the time that game is starting to show it's ugly head? Lack of end-game besides huuuge grind, non demanding PVE, combat that has divided GW2 playerbase into lovers and haters, lack of personification options and let's not forget ... their latest "third reich" adaptation: diminishing returns on basic gameplay. You are not alowed to play for more than give or take 30 minutes in the same zone. You are expected to move to another or out of the game. And their response ... it will take few weeks.
Or is this your first game review? If this is the case, I appologize.
1) an MMO with its endgame in the cons list can get more than 5/10 in the overall score.
2) GW2 has "fantastic story and dungeons"
3) GW2's copy pasted dynamic events are somehow better than classic questing.
4) GW2 losing 40-50% of its player base within a month (see xfire+raptr) means it has longevity 9/10
5) not having to group or interact with anyone from 1 to 80+full exotics gives the game a social 8/10
6) the dungeon grind can be a con while at the same time the dungeons are "fantastic". How does that work exactly? If the dungeons were fun the grind would be fun.
I enjoy so far a lot Gw2, but this article looks to me like "payed" one. Could agree on many points. But giving 8 to social??? At best deserves 4 to 5. Unless social has become running into group quest, start casting pounding, ressurecting, ... done & gone. To next event.
Innovation & Gameplay 10??? Is good but there are out there many many many games that should then get at least 12 if not 15.
Bill (who I know a bit, worked with him on LOTRO Vault back in 2007) gave the game 9.3, the user score on this web site, despite the trolls who gave it 0-0-0-0-0, is still 9.0, that says a lot about the general opinion about the game. It also shows that once again, forums are definitely not the reflection of any general opinion, but from a niche, mostly bored people spending more time to post negative stuff on random game forums than actually playing games they enjoy.
Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
The thing is that you are whining about people who tried Taco Bell and decided to go back to the Mc Donald's style restaurant.
No I wouldn't, because in "real life", if someone would stand in the middle of a Taco Bell saying the food sucks and Mc Donald's is better, he would be thrown out (or the police would be called)... and most people don't do that anyway. It's only on the net where you have people standing in the middle of other's restaurant complaining about the food they aren't forced to eat.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I snipped them because they weren't innovative. Having multiple ways of starting and finishing a quest is a staple of classic MMORPGs, not a new idea. You honestly think GW2 was the first MMO that doesn't make you go back to the quest NPC?
much like wow at the time this game has taken many of the best aspects of other games and meshed them into a great game Except WoW left out the bulk of the better features, and just kept a shallow version of the boring features. And while GW2 has built on ideas, WoW never expanded or built on its features. as well as removing many of the issues of past games IE kill stealing was never an issue in any game I played, node stealing ect.. ect because you can't think of anything? the way it brings all these features together alone is innovated that's such a cop out "well no game has had this exact configuration! You can't claim a feature is innovative, find out its not, and then say, "oh but its like...totally presented in a unique way!" much like how wow at the time innovated didn't innovative AT ALL in all its years of running. the themepark by streamlining many features from other games.. wasn't the first game to do this like said many times nothing needs to be 100% new to be innovative.
Claiming something was done for the first time in one game, when it wasn't, is what the issue here is. It's like saying "No one had used a purple icon for quest NPCs before, THATS AN INNOVATION!"
sorry forgot you knew everything about what people want and like and you are the end all end all of what's innovated.. really you that closed minded you can't see people have differn't opinions about games and what features are considered good and interesting?
As someone who used to host MUDs on my BBS think I have been around long enough to know most of what people talk about from games in the past is pure nostalgia and not much more..
And I find most people who say this really never understood the beauty of the titles they were playing, so they can't see/recall what has changed/been lost over the years. (heck, there's people currently playing EVE for 4 or more years who amazingly still haven't grasped what its really all about, surprises me every time)
Sure, there were many bad things, and I always expected someone to remove the bad and enhance what was good. Unfortunately it took an unexpected turn, they started tossing out the good with the bad, so while the games improved in many areas to be sure, what was discarded along the way removed most of the charm and challenge the earlier titles possessed.
I don't claim to know what other people like, its pretty obvious I have no clue why people like certain things like sushi (I blame it on improper upbringing) but I do know for certain what I enjoy, and very few titles cater to my preferences.
But there's always hope on the horizon, especially if the genre decides to go up and crash and burn like some signs are pointing to.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
Well, that's partly true. The social systems are there, but the need to use them is gone.
Take away the forcing function and many people will choose not to socialize.
Much like SWTOR, GW2 is a single-player online role playing game. Sadly, I think this might be the wave of the future for MMOs. *sniff*
Um yes there is.You get bonus EXP for being in Manually created groups.Its the People my friend not the game.Yes it offers a way for those who want to solo to do that but it gives equal time to those who want to group and gives them bonus EXP for doing it.There are any number of ways to group with people be it with a guild or a PUG.If you dont do either its your fault your not being social not the games.Pretty simple and starightforward.Everyone expects these games to hold there hands these days.If thats what you want go play WOW.
I believe I already mentioned this to you in guild chat before but....
HOW MUCH DID ANET PAY YOU!?!?! RAWR RAWR !@#$% ROFLMAO FAIL MMO SWTOR WOWCLONE F2P ROFLMAO RAWR RAWR !@#$!#$ FAIL FAIL FAIL SANDBOX SANDBOX
^basically sums up the MMORPG.com forum experience.
walk into an area and a quest will be available...unless the enemy mob is a boss that's been set to move around or it's a quest where you protect a dude and his donkey, that particular quest will always be in that particular place, thus creating a quest hub.
game was made to reach 80 fast. period. I can open and shut a peanut butter jar for 15 extra minutes, doesnt mean the jar was only meant to be open fast if I want it to.....
It's not for everyone but the review summed it up perfectly for how I feel about the game.
There is a lot of polish in this game and its evident with all the underwater elements. It is another world and not just tacked on.
Besides gameplay etc. The biggest break through is the streamlined approach to inventory. I swear I have quit games before because of the running around to store stuff. Being able to harvest and send to bank, use trade anywhere, sell anywhere, access mats from bank at craft station etc etc.
All of this has taken away the boredom of running back and forth every 5 min. How many times do you need to quit a dungeon run because you have no fking inventory space!!!!!
I just want to finish work and get home and play my Engineer...
funny enough, they just posted a blog today about how their live teams will be doing just that.
Rift/WAR - DE's got their birthrite from these games...I sure didnt have to talk to the NPC's to start a PQ or to start a rift.
Ryzom - gave options on what you'd rather do in order to complete quests
Any Sandbox game and some Themepark games - dont require you to do quests to level
Presentation alone is not innovation. Presentation utilzing a new method is innovation. There are no new method's in GW2....cept for jump quests...that's their claim to faim...gratz ANET
Don't bother, they don't understand the distinction, and think the only MMos to exist before GW2 were WoWclones, and EQ.
Read 'Ooh! loads of advertising money, course we will give you a high score'
Eww i'm still in masterwork gear there. All exotic now
~Taaz
The Deep Web is sca-ry.
Look, tire companies, bleech producers and tissue manufacturers "innovate" (sell) every year, better handling tread, brighter whites, and softer sqaures, every year.
GW2's largest innovation was in marketing. "Redefining" (selling) gold buying, payed beta weekends, cash shops, game world (three separate worlds instead of one cohessive), and end game (exact same level cap structure as any other mmo, without the content that supports more tiers.)
You can debate innovation in questing all you want. I think GW2's biggest innovation is in the area above. These things will be GW2's legacy.
And meanwhile, SWTOR gets a high score in innovation and Vanguard gets... a 6. The reviewer even says "Well theres lots of innovation in Vanguard, but its so complicated!"
Wrong, I was comparing questing in one game to questing in another. I was comparing RvR in one game to RvR in another.
I'll be a data point for you. I love Guild Wars 2 and I never played WoW.
But sure, lets pretend Diplomacy was Vanguards only innovation.
I would give the game a 9.0 if I would have enjoyed it...
Found it quite dull. I don't see where the innovation is (other than grouping mechanics) the GUI is an unscaled mess like something from "junior angler". It's worth 7.5 or 8 and it's better than SWTOR, but it's hardly a great game. Yes you "can" roam all over the place, but there is no purpose to it, so that soon loses its appeal. You can still get ganked by high level mobs if you roam in to the wrong area - in fact in that regard you can roam wherever you want in any game [and get killed for your trouble] so not sure where the "innovation and freedom" that's talked about here is with that. It's ok. UNderneath the hoodm crafting is just the same as any other game as well, character customization is appaling (everyone looks the same at about every level, "Oh Miss Blunderbuss, you have slighly stripier trousers" Yip..flipping...eee. COntrols are a complete screw up, "sick 'o' vision" camera movement with "vomit 'o' matic" inertia and acceleration at every setting you try doesn't help either. Movement is like trying to coax a pea up you livingroom wall using chopsticks...while wearing boxing gloves.
All that can be fixed though I reckon, but giving the game suc h a high score for polish? Nahh - it just aint so.
Wworth the money, and will do well. but it's not a classic. 70% of the fanbois on this thread won't be playing this game after Xmas that's for sure.
I always thought that mmorpg.com, gamespot, ... and many other "main site" reviews are biased and in a lot of ways very "smelly". But I always told myself that I am exagerrating. This review proves my theory, for me.
Such blatant "boot licking" as is this review is simply not professional for a reviewer on a game site of such caliber as is "mmorpg.com". Are you gettin paid by them?
I mean, I like the game. Is has some really great parts.But this goes much more than liking, its almost worship. But I don't know who he worships. GW2 or ArenaNet?
Is it just a coincidence that hise stellar review is published at the time that game is starting to show it's ugly head? Lack of end-game besides huuuge grind, non demanding PVE, combat that has divided GW2 playerbase into lovers and haters, lack of personification options and let's not forget ... their latest "third reich" adaptation: diminishing returns on basic gameplay. You are not alowed to play for more than give or take 30 minutes in the same zone. You are expected to move to another or out of the game. And their response ... it will take few weeks.
Or is this your first game review? If this is the case, I appologize.
Today I learned that:
1) an MMO with its endgame in the cons list can get more than 5/10 in the overall score.
2) GW2 has "fantastic story and dungeons"
3) GW2's copy pasted dynamic events are somehow better than classic questing.
4) GW2 losing 40-50% of its player base within a month (see xfire+raptr) means it has longevity 9/10
5) not having to group or interact with anyone from 1 to 80+full exotics gives the game a social 8/10
6) the dungeon grind can be a con while at the same time the dungeons are "fantastic". How does that work exactly? If the dungeons were fun the grind would be fun.
DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann
AESTHETICS – 9
the only point I disagree with, mainly because the ground textures look like from GW1 which is 7 years old.
I enjoy so far a lot Gw2, but this article looks to me like "payed" one. Could agree on many points. But giving 8 to social??? At best deserves 4 to 5. Unless social has become running into group quest, start casting pounding, ressurecting, ... done & gone. To next event.
Innovation & Gameplay 10??? Is good but there are out there many many many games that should then get at least 12 if not 15.
I did not even bother further to read.
Bill (who I know a bit, worked with him on LOTRO Vault back in 2007) gave the game 9.3, the user score on this web site, despite the trolls who gave it 0-0-0-0-0, is still 9.0, that says a lot about the general opinion about the game. It also shows that once again, forums are definitely not the reflection of any general opinion, but from a niche, mostly bored people spending more time to post negative stuff on random game forums than actually playing games they enjoy.
No I wouldn't, because in "real life", if someone would stand in the middle of a Taco Bell saying the food sucks and Mc Donald's is better, he would be thrown out (or the police would be called)... and most people don't do that anyway. It's only on the net where you have people standing in the middle of other's restaurant complaining about the food they aren't forced to eat.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
And I find most people who say this really never understood the beauty of the titles they were playing, so they can't see/recall what has changed/been lost over the years. (heck, there's people currently playing EVE for 4 or more years who amazingly still haven't grasped what its really all about, surprises me every time)
Sure, there were many bad things, and I always expected someone to remove the bad and enhance what was good. Unfortunately it took an unexpected turn, they started tossing out the good with the bad, so while the games improved in many areas to be sure, what was discarded along the way removed most of the charm and challenge the earlier titles possessed.
I don't claim to know what other people like, its pretty obvious I have no clue why people like certain things like sushi (I blame it on improper upbringing)
but I do know for certain what I enjoy, and very few titles cater to my preferences.
But there's always hope on the horizon, especially if the genre decides to go up and crash and burn like some signs are pointing to.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon