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Seems like GW2 has peaked on Xfire AND Raptr?

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Comments

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by Entris38

    The only thing I can say that it actually amazes me that any of this is still talked about, or ever for that matter. If you like the game, play it , or vice versa. Apparently everyone suddenly owns stock in these companies.......my game is better than your game because it has more people......my dad can beat up your dad.......seriously folks???? That's exactly what this is....

    DFC Intelligence seems to care ;)

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/07/11/riot-games-league-of-legends-officially-becomes-most-played-pc-game-in-the-world/

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,171Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by smh_alot
    Originally posted by Entris38

    The only thing I can say that it actually amazes me that any of this is still talked about, or ever for that matter. If you like the game, play it , or vice versa. Apparently everyone suddenly owns stock in these companies.......my game is better than your game because it has more people......my dad can beat up your dad.......seriously folks???? That's exactly what this is....

     

     

    It's the same as those stats of sports players, basketball players, baseball players etc. Why are they being discussed, or why are they even being kept track by fans? Do they influence your enjoyment while you actually watch the game? Maybe, but most often not at all. Still, for a number of sports fans those scoring stats of major league players are still something they're interested in.

    at least, provide accurate stats, posting stats that do not represent the community at all is bull.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • Entris38Entris38 Somewhere, OHPosts: 321Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by smh_alot
    Originally posted by Entris38

    The only thing I can say that it actually amazes me that any of this is still talked about, or ever for that matter. If you like the game, play it , or vice versa. Apparently everyone suddenly owns stock in these companies.......my game is better than your game because it has more people......my dad can beat up your dad.......seriously folks???? That's exactly what this is....

     

     

    It's the same as those stats of sports players, basketball players, baseball players etc. Why are they being discussed, or why are they even being kept track by fans? Do they influence your enjoyment while you actually watch the game? Maybe, but most often not at all. Still, for a number of sports fans those scoring stats of major league players are still something they're interested in.

    Very true, I can see what you are saying

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Entris38

    The only thing I can say that it actually amazes me that any of this is still talked about, or ever for that matter. If you like the game, play it , or vice versa. Apparently everyone suddenly owns stock in these companies.......my game is better than your game because it has more people......my dad can beat up your dad.......seriously folks???? That's exactly what this is....

    DFC Intelligence seems to care ;)

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/07/11/riot-games-league-of-legends-officially-becomes-most-played-pc-game-in-the-world/

    Bookmarked for future "Who cares about xfire?" comments. 

     

    It still amazes me when I see comments like "xfire only shows "X" usesr? there are "Xmillion" users playing! Xfire is bull!" comments.

     

    I blame our education system :p

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    I never used Xfire, my whole guild doesnt use Xfire or raptr > so what are you trying to say with this ?
    At what population is this date taken from ?

    MoP sales 700k
    GW2 sales 2.6 million

    What does it say ?

    Nada niente nothing.

    keep trying tough.

    I've never been polled by a political poll either, but they are an accurate snapshop of public opinion at the given time.  The whole "i don't use x-fire and neither do my friends" is meaningless.  X-fire is problematic for many reasons, that isn't one of them.  The biggest problem with x-fire and raptr is that they are self-selected samples which means there is no generalizability to them.  This is why it is useless to try to say based on x-fire a game has close to X population.  But nobody really does that anymore so it is a bit of a moot point.  It is also fairly useless to compare games population size using x-fire due to the sel-selected nature of the sample.  What x-fire does really well is show trends within a specific game.  Raptr is the same way though it isn't as popular to talk about on these forums.  

  • krakra70krakra70 karakas, IDPosts: 122Member
    It's amazing how similar the stats of raptr and xfire are. Maybe they are actually both correct and the fanboys were wrong?
  • Entris38Entris38 Somewhere, OHPosts: 321Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Entris38

    The only thing I can say that it actually amazes me that any of this is still talked about, or ever for that matter. If you like the game, play it , or vice versa. Apparently everyone suddenly owns stock in these companies.......my game is better than your game because it has more people......my dad can beat up your dad.......seriously folks???? That's exactly what this is....

    DFC Intelligence seems to care ;)

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/07/11/riot-games-league-of-legends-officially-becomes-most-played-pc-game-in-the-world/

    Bookmarked for future "Who cares about xfire?" comments.

    That's a good article, thanks.

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Thillian
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    I never used Xfire, my whole guild doesnt use Xfire or raptr > so what are you trying to say with this ?
    At what population is this date taken from ?

    MoP sales 700k
    GW2 sales 2.6 million

    What does it say ?

    Nada niente nothing.

    keep trying tough.

    What you don't see or use obviously don't exist?

    Sample size of either of these programs is extremely large and fairly accurately represents the gaming population.

     

    Actually - WHAT IS the gaming population of either program? Unless one of those programs is installed by default when you install a game - you never will get accurate numbers. Why? STATISTICS my friend. What % of GW2 palyers use either program? Unless you know that you may as well stick your head in the sand because random numbers will be as accurate as the numbers from Xfire or Raptr.

     

    Nice try - move on.

    You don't need to know what % of gw2 users use x-fire, that number is irrelevant.  For example, most political polls only use between 1,000 and 2,000 people (some use more some use less).  That is less than .01% of the voting population in the U.S.  What matters is the raw number itself anything over 500 people is going to give you a reasonable margin of error.  As I said in a previous post x-fires problem isn't the number of users, it is the self-selected nature of the numbers, which make comparisons impossible but trends usefull.

  • IPolygonIPolygon ViennaPosts: 707Member Uncommon

    I just made these screenshots.







     

    Looks pretty busy to me.

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by Thillian
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Thillian
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    I never used Xfire, my whole guild doesnt use Xfire or raptr > so what are you trying to say with this ?
    At what population is this date taken from ?

    MoP sales 700k
    GW2 sales 2.6 million

    What does it say ?

    Nada niente nothing.

    keep trying tough.

    What you don't see or use obviously don't exist?

    Sample size of either of these programs is extremely large and fairly accurately represents the gaming population.

     

    Actually - WHAT IS the gaming population of either program? Unless one of those programs is installed by default when you install a game - you never will get accurate numbers. Why? STATISTICS my friend. What % of GW2 palyers use either program? Unless you know that you may as well stick your head in the sand because random numbers will be as accurate as the numbers from Xfire or Raptr.

     

    Nice try - move on.

    Statistics, you probably never heared about voting estimates made on sample size of a 1000 people. Xfire sample size is one thousand times larger than estimates you see on the TV. That is not the correct question what you're asking, however, the correct question is, why would guild wars players be more or less inclined to use Xfire than other players. The answer is, there might be a very small difference, but not significant enough to make the data invalid.

    If 1.2% of GW2 players use xfire, and only 1.1% of WoW players, the margin of error would be very small and if you believe that the difference is much more significant then you kinda have to give a reasonable explanation for that. WoW and GW2 and Rift and Lotro etc. players are belonging to very similar market segment and are regularly migrating between these games, so the chance they use xfire in the same proportion is extremely high.

     

    I beg to differ - I understand all about voting estimates and similar processes but MANY times those estimates are WRONG. In order to have true valid numbers, Xfire and Raptr would have to know the % of players using and trend over the day. That way one can get an average and use that.

     

    Sorry the numbers are useless from Xfire and Raptr for any game UNLESS the program is installed by default. If not, no estimate will be accurate or useful.

     

    As my old Ph.D. advisor said, there are lies, damned lies, and then there is Statistics.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • MahavishnuMahavishnu BerlinPosts: 336Member

    Come on guys,

    don't trust the numbers, just use your brain:

    1. GW2 is a good game and it is successful. Many players will stay within this game.

    2. MoP will draw a lot of players back to WoW. Even if not that many as with Cata, there is still that old guild one has been a member of for such a long time and don't forget the deal with Diablo 3. Finally the way they count subscriptions in China has always been intransparent.

    3. So both games continue to have a big playerbase. WoW's numbers are shrinking, but that is no surprise. Blizzard obviously has a plan how to pass the time till the release of Titan. ArenaNet, however, still has to prove that they can keep their game fresh and attractive enough to keep their playerbase.

    Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by krakra70
    It's amazing how similar the stats of raptr and xfire are. Maybe they are actually both correct and the fanboys were wrong?

    Or Xfire and Raptr are one in the same - meaning useless.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • krakra70krakra70 karakas, IDPosts: 122Member
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Thillian
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    I never used Xfire, my whole guild doesnt use Xfire or raptr > so what are you trying to say with this ?
    At what population is this date taken from ?

    MoP sales 700k
    GW2 sales 2.6 million

    What does it say ?

    Nada niente nothing.

    keep trying tough.

    What you don't see or use obviously don't exist?

    Sample size of either of these programs is extremely large and fairly accurately represents the gaming population.

     

    Actually - WHAT IS the gaming population of either program? Unless one of those programs is installed by default when you install a game - you never will get accurate numbers. Why? STATISTICS my friend. What % of GW2 palyers use either program? Unless you know that you may as well stick your head in the sand because random numbers will be as accurate as the numbers from Xfire or Raptr.

     

    Nice try - move on.

    You don't need to know what % of gw2 users use x-fire, that number is irrelevant.  For example, most political polls only use between 1,000 and 2,000 people (some use more some use less).  That is less than .01% of the voting population in the U.S.  What matters is the raw number itself anything over 500 people is going to give you a reasonable margin of error.  As I said in a previous post x-fires problem isn't the number of users, it is the self-selected nature of the numbers, which make comparisons impossible but trends usefull.

    It's barely self-selected. People use xfire to improve their gaming experience, not to "vote" for a game, which makes it a (mostly) random selection (and that is much more statistically significant)

  • krakra70krakra70 karakas, IDPosts: 122Member
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by krakra70
    It's amazing how similar the stats of raptr and xfire are. Maybe they are actually both correct and the fanboys were wrong?

    Or Xfire and Raptr are one in the same - meaning useless.

    If they were just random numbers without significance they wouldn't be so similar.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by krakra70
    It's amazing how similar the stats of raptr and xfire are. Maybe they are actually both correct and the fanboys were wrong?

    Or Xfire and Raptr are one in the same - meaning useless.

    Forbes begs to differ.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/07/11/riot-games-league-of-legends-officially-becomes-most-played-pc-game-in-the-world/

  • sumdumguy1sumdumguy1 avondale, AZPosts: 962Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by smh_alot
    Originally posted by sumdumguy1
    The simple point is the number of xfire users on GW2 is so low compared to the total players on GW2, that a reasonable dissemination can't be made. When around 3% of your total users are using xfire, you don't even have enough users to cover the error margin that these statistics require. The validity of any information is considered invalid in every measurable way.

     

    ? It doesn't work like that, not 1 single research that uses samples works like that, often far, far smaller samples are being used. As long as it is representative enough , the size of a sample doesn't matter. That's why it's also good to compare the data from several measuring means.

    THis is hilarious that your think its representive when your overall numbers dont cover the error margin.  Its not valid, that is the most basic principle for validity in any poll or study.  My point was clearly questioning the most important aspect , the validity.   Any research company that failed to meet the above mentioned criteria could and probably would be charged with fraululent reporting, and yes there are several legal cases, as high as the US circuit courts, where this has been ruled on in favor of those charging fraud.

    Right now Xfire is at best a tool that may show some correlational information regarding game play.  However too many unaccounted vairables exist to consider it valid even beyond the validity issue.

  • IPolygonIPolygon ViennaPosts: 707Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by krakra70
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by krakra70
    It's amazing how similar the stats of raptr and xfire are. Maybe they are actually both correct and the fanboys were wrong?

    Or Xfire and Raptr are one in the same - meaning useless.

    If they were just random numbers without significance they wouldn't be so similar.

    It is possible that those who use xfire also tend to use raptr.

  • BrooksTechBrooksTech Canton, ILPosts: 163Member

    The Xfire stats are, as of today, based on 7,914 GW2 players using xfire.  For statistics, this number holds more weight than the 20 users polled on mmorpg.com.  

    Just because you disagree, or don't understand, how simple math works doesn't mean you're right.

     

  • ThillianThillian BratislavaPosts: 3,143Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Thillian
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Thillian
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    I never used Xfire, my whole guild doesnt use Xfire or raptr > so what are you trying to say with this ?
    At what population is this date taken from ?

    MoP sales 700k
    GW2 sales 2.6 million

    What does it say ?

    Nada niente nothing.

    keep trying tough.

    What you don't see or use obviously don't exist?

    Sample size of either of these programs is extremely large and fairly accurately represents the gaming population.

     

    Actually - WHAT IS the gaming population of either program? Unless one of those programs is installed by default when you install a game - you never will get accurate numbers. Why? STATISTICS my friend. What % of GW2 palyers use either program? Unless you know that you may as well stick your head in the sand because random numbers will be as accurate as the numbers from Xfire or Raptr.

     

    Nice try - move on.

    Statistics, you probably never heared about voting estimates made on sample size of a 1000 people. Xfire sample size is one thousand times larger than estimates you see on the TV. That is not the correct question what you're asking, however, the correct question is, why would guild wars players be more or less inclined to use Xfire than other players. The answer is, there might be a very small difference, but not significant enough to make the data invalid.

    If 1.2% of GW2 players use xfire, and only 1.1% of WoW players, the margin of error would be very small and if you believe that the difference is much more significant then you kinda have to give a reasonable explanation for that. WoW and GW2 and Rift and Lotro etc. players are belonging to very similar market segment and are regularly migrating between these games, so the chance they use xfire in the same proportion is extremely high.

     

    I beg to differ - I understand all about voting estimates and similar processes but MANY times those estimates are WRONG. In order to have true valid numbers, Xfire and Raptr would have to know the % of players using and trend over the day. That way one can get an average and use that.

     

    Sorry the numbers are useless from Xfire and Raptr for any game UNLESS the program is installed by default. If not, no estimate will be accurate or useful.

     

    As my old Ph.D. advisor said, there are lies, damned lies, and then there is Statistics.

    Why do you need that?

    Xfire is a self-selected sample size of a milion people that play different games every day, often migrating between them. Almost every game in existence is listed and recorded by the X-fire.

    GW 2 and WoW players and other theme park players - lotro, rift, war, aion, etc. are constituting the same marget segment, and generally are of the same or similar age, sex, gender, occupation, etc. 

    If you're talking about sample size of a million players, the margin of error is almost non-existent. It is a truthful representation of the overall gaming community. There might be extremely small and statistically insignificant differences between GW2 and WoW and Lotro... communities and how much they incline towards using third party programs (xfire), however, they aren't significant enough to make the xfire data invalid. If you believe there is a reasonable explanation why GW2 players would generally incline towards using X-fire than let's say WoW playermore or less often,, shout it. Because I'm certain there isn't one.

    REALITY CHECK

  • ImperialSunImperialSun WorcesterPosts: 212Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    I never used Xfire, my whole guild doesnt use Xfire or raptr > so what are you trying to say with this ?
    At what population is this date taken from ?

    MoP sales 700k
    GW2 sales 2.6 million

    What does it say ?

    Nada niente nothing.

    keep trying tough.

    You don't believe that do you?

     

    What's the source for the 2.6? 

     

     

    Ha ha of course he/she doesn't believe it :)

    I love how the rabid fan boys are still trying to put such a spin on this GW2 thing, the game that they spent years telling us all was giong to redefine the MMORPG landscape has proven to be just a mediocre themepark with no end game...

    I also love how they held up Xfire and Raptr numbers as absolute proof of what a genre changing game GW2 was....now that the game is starting to tank and people are getting bored it even faster than people got bored of SWTOR, then suddenlt the fan boys cry things like "Xfire is arbitrary and meaingless" or "no one in my guild or even my continent uses Xfire so it means nothing" etc etc...

    Too funny....

    Driz

  • krakra70krakra70 karakas, IDPosts: 122Member
    Originally posted by IPolygon
    Originally posted by krakra70
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by krakra70
    It's amazing how similar the stats of raptr and xfire are. Maybe they are actually both correct and the fanboys were wrong?

    Or Xfire and Raptr are one in the same - meaning useless.

    If they were just random numbers without significance they wouldn't be so similar.

    It is possible that those who use xfire also tend to use raptr.

    They are almost the same program, why would someone use both?

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member
    Originally posted by sumdumguy1
    Originally posted by smh_alot
    Originally posted by sumdumguy1
    The simple point is the number of xfire users on GW2 is so low compared to the total players on GW2, that a reasonable dissemination can't be made. When around 3% of your total users are using xfire, you don't even have enough users to cover the error margin that these statistics require. The validity of any information is considered invalid in every measurable way.

     

    ? It doesn't work like that, not 1 single research that uses samples works like that, often far, far smaller samples are being used. As long as it is representative enough , the size of a sample doesn't matter. That's why it's also good to compare the data from several measuring means.

    THis is hilarious that your think its representive when your overall numbers dont cover the error margin.  Its not valid, that is the most basic principle for validity in any poll or study.  My point was clearly questioning the most important aspect , the validity.   Any research company that failed to meet the above mentioned criteria could and probably would be charged with fraululent reporting, and yes there are several legal cases, as high as the US circuit courts, where this has been ruled on in favor of those charging fraud.

    Right now Xfire is at best a tool that may show some correlational information regarding game play.  However too many unaccounted vairables exist to consider it valid even beyond the validity issue.

    The margin of error is calculated based on a raw number of respondents not the % of the population being researched.  Otherwise there would be no national political polling because it would be too expensive.  Of the 10 most recent national political polls the fewest polled was 783 (.00006% of the number of people who voted in 2008)  and the  most polled was 3050 (.00024% of the number of voters in 2008).  Yesterday the sample for x-fire was 8,016 or about .003% of the total x-fire playerbase assuming that every single person who bought the game is still playing (which we know isn't the case)  x-fire has a much smaller margin of error whether you look at the raw numbers or the % of the population using it than any political poll.  The number of people and margin of error is not the problem with x-fire, it has and always will be the self-selected nature of the sample.

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