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  • DraronDraron A town in, KYPosts: 993Member
    Originally posted by jayfeeler69
    Originally posted by Draron
    Originally posted by jayfeeler69

    Likely to help with a f2p conversion, after all Bylos gave the kiss of death by stating no f2p soon. Every experienced mmo gamer knows that when a dev denies f2p when the game is sinking is lying.

    The game isn't "sinking". They said in an interview with Eurogamer the game is profitable now. But of course, you could say they're lying which would just begin a senseless argument on no merit. Sticking with what was said, myself.

    Their quarterly reports state otherwise, again you are taking a pr mans words for truth

    Sources that the subs they have aren't enough to keep it sustainable? I'd gladly stand corrected, but I know nothing of this quarterly report.

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by Draron

    Sources that the subs they have aren't enough to keep it sustainable? I'd gladly stand corrected, but I know nothing of this quarterly report.

    TSW is the only real thing propping Funcom up at the moment.  So even if the game is profitable it doesn't mean it's sustainable.  It has to fund the whole company in a way and in order to make TSW profitable they had to half the workforce.   The game hasn't been a success.   The only real hope is that with these monthly updates they can introduce aspects that people find enjoyable enough to sub.  Or in the long term (if you believe what you are told) hold enough interest for people for when the game goes free to play.

     

    Quarterly report, Funcom issued their last quarterly report August 2012.

    http://www.funcom.com/investors/funcoms_second_quarter_financial_report_for_2012

    It didn't make good reading it basically stated Funcom were reducing costs, moving out of the MMO industry etc.  You can catch it online they have to publish it for their investors.  But please consider they are trying to put a positive spin on a negative situation. 

  • SicaeSicae LulePosts: 110Member
    Originally posted by fallenlords
    Originally posted by Draron

    Sources that the subs they have aren't enough to keep it sustainable? I'd gladly stand corrected, but I know nothing of this quarterly report.

    TSW is the only real thing propping Funcom up at the moment.  So even if the game is profitable it doesn't mean it's sustainable.  It has to fund the whole company in a way and in order to make TSW profitable they had to half the workforce.   The game hasn't been a success.   The only real hope is that with these monthly updates they can introduce aspects that people find enjoyable enough to sub.  Or in the long term (if you believe what you are told) hold enough interest for people for when the game goes free to play.

     

    Quarterly report, Funcom issued their last quarterly report August 2012.

    http://www.funcom.com/investors/funcoms_second_quarter_financial_report_for_2012

    It didn't make good reading it basically stated Funcom were reducing costs, moving out of the MMO industry etc.  You can catch it online they have to publish it for their investors.  But please consider they are trying to put a positive spin on a negative situation. 

    They have a positive cash flow on all their other games, but the earnings from those games are shrinking, especially from age of conan. Revenues from TSW isn't shown in the report apart from the prestart money at end of june. The development costs and launch of TSW cost them a lot of money, and the reason they cut costs isn't because they are currently losing money on TSW (because they are not), but to give them the financial muscles to fund new projects.

     

    Funcoms biggest problem is that the financial failure of tsw has removed most of the funds to develop future MMO titles.

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by Sicae

    They have a positive cash flow on all their other games, but the earnings from those games are shrinking, especially from age of conan. Revenues from TSW isn't shown in the report apart from the prestart money at end of june. The development costs and launch of TSW cost them a lot of money, and the reason they cut costs isn't because they are currently losing money on TSW (because they are not), but to give them the financial muscles to fund new projects.

     

    Funcoms biggest problem is that the financial failure of tsw has removed most of the funds to develop future MMO titles.

    They were in a negative cash flow situation prior to the launch of TSW.  They expected to be in a positive cash flow situation after.  At the moment they are in survival mode, their 'new product' isn't doing very well at all.  Their old products are coming to the end of their lifecycle.  Apart from a couple of projects - one bizarre one being resurrecting a Lego MMO (which has crashed and burned before) and some Fashion thing.  They have exactly squat going forward.  Hence they are changing their focus, away from MMO's.   They are treading water at this time and who knows what might happen with the insider trading allegations, share price etc.

     

    Funcoms biggest problem is they had all their eggs in one basket.   For some strange reason, known only to them,  they thought TSW would be an amazing financial success.  They misread the signs, misread the market, misread the timing and misread basically everything.

     

     

  • UccisoreUccisore Presque Isle, MEPosts: 95Member
    Originally posted by jayfeeler69

    A halloween event that lasts only two weeks to possibly never be seen again is not new content sorry to break those rose tinted lenses.

           How in the hell can this possibly be considered true by any stretch of the imagination? Sounds to me like you're just out to bash the game whether you make sense or not.    Hell, you don't even count the release of a new Auxillary weapon in  update 2, you're so desperate to make the game look bad.   Depending on the extent of the Halloween event,  all three updates are about the same size, with the second one being just a bit smaller than the other two. 

  • NibsNibs .Posts: 216Member Uncommon
    Is it totally impossible that the (temporary) Halloween event opens permanent content..?
  • GR3NDELGR3NDEL Tulsa, OKPosts: 108Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fallenlords
    Originally posted by Draron

    Sources that the subs they have aren't enough to keep it sustainable? I'd gladly stand corrected, but I know nothing of this quarterly report.

    TSW is the only real thing propping Funcom up at the moment.  So even if the game is profitable it doesn't mean it's sustainable.  It has to fund the whole company in a way and in order to make TSW profitable they had to half the workforce.   The game hasn't been a success.   The only real hope is that with these monthly updates they can introduce aspects that people find enjoyable enough to sub.  Or in the long term (if you believe what you are told) hold enough interest for people for when the game goes free to play.

     

    Quarterly report, Funcom issued their last quarterly report August 2012.

    http://www.funcom.com/investors/funcoms_second_quarter_financial_report_for_2012

    It didn't make good reading it basically stated Funcom were reducing costs, moving out of the MMO industry etc.  You can catch it online they have to publish it for their investors.  But please consider they are trying to put a positive spin on a negative situation. 

    Ah yes, the Quarterly report from... August.  That report has been disected 20 different ways since it was published, not just on MMORPG.COM but numerous gaming websites... not to mention being discussed thoroughly on the TSW forums as well.  Nothing in that report is in dispute - Funcom was expecting a much higher number of box sales than materialized.  Numerous layoffs did happen, and a bunch of re-organization did occur within the company.  Again, none of that is in dispute.

    However, since that report was released, TSW has nonetheless released several updates, Ragnar is still working on TSW along with John Bylos, and a number of interviews with both are being released to the public.  Issue #4 - Big Trouble in the Big Apple is slated for release with the New York raid, and we're currently in the middle of Issue #3 - The Cat God, which contains content which hasn't been 'flipped on'  yet - a rather cool idea, IMO.  Whether the updates up to now is considered 'large' or 'small' is, obviously up for debate - but the simple fact is that since that 'doom and gloom' report was released, TSW has continued to release content updates.  Three people have been re-hired to the TSW dev team - not a huge number, granted, but a positive sign nonetheless.  The Newcomers sub-forum is quite lively - both with CoX refugees and new players who took advantage of the recent half-off box sale that Funcom offered.  This is not the picture of a decaying game, no matter how desperately some want TSW to fail.  Yes, issue #2 was delayed - quite a bit, which is understandable considering both the upheavals in the company/development team and the exploit bug (one of the moderators described it as seeing a Tarrasque in Kingsmouth - google the beastie if you're unfamiliar with D&D), but it was released.

    The next benchmark will be the next quarterly report released by Funcom. As a TSW 'fanboi' (I do love my rose-colored glasses!) it is my hope that this report will show that, while income from TSW is still below what Funcom originally expected, there is a steady increase in new players/subscribers.  Since Funcom has already deemed TSW as 'cashflow positive', the addition of new subscribers - as long as they outweigh the inevitable number of players who are no longer playing, will be a positive thing.

    We'll just have to wait and see. 

    image

  • BadLuckBrettBadLuckBrett Boston, MAPosts: 22Member
    Originally posted by Uccisore
    Originally posted by jayfeeler69

    A halloween event that lasts only two weeks to possibly never be seen again is not new content sorry to break those rose tinted lenses.

           How in the hell can this possibly be considered true by any stretch of the imagination? Sounds to me like you're just out to bash the game whether you make sense or not.    Hell, you don't even count the release of a new Auxillary weapon in  update 2, you're so desperate to make the game look bad.   Depending on the extent of the Halloween event,  all three updates are about the same size, with the second one being just a bit smaller than the other two. 

    Just check the post history, since day one it was quite obvious the account was made for the sole purpose of bashing TSW. Which amuses me, since I seem to recall the banning of new accounts that were obviously made for the sole reason of trashing other games quite recently.

  • GR3NDELGR3NDEL Tulsa, OKPosts: 108Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadLuckBrett
    Originally posted by Uccisore
    Originally posted by jayfeeler69

    A halloween event that lasts only two weeks to possibly never be seen again is not new content sorry to break those rose tinted lenses.

           How in the hell can this possibly be considered true by any stretch of the imagination? Sounds to me like you're just out to bash the game whether you make sense or not.    Hell, you don't even count the release of a new Auxillary weapon in  update 2, you're so desperate to make the game look bad.   Depending on the extent of the Halloween event,  all three updates are about the same size, with the second one being just a bit smaller than the other two. 

    Just check the post history, since day one it was quite obvious the account was made for the sole purpose of bashing TSW. Which amuses me, since I seem to recall the banning of new accounts that were obviously made for the sole reason of trashing other games quite recently

    It is pretty amusing to see... especially with the recent good news being released (3 people being rehired, Issue #3 being released with Issue #4 on the way, the influx of new players etc. etc. etc.) - it's apparent that the 'gloom and doom' posters are getting more defensive and angry as their cherished goal of TSW falling apart becomes less and less likely.  Sure, they had their moment to crow 'Ha! I was right! I was right!' back in August but now, the facts are surely moving away from their opinion and they're getting more desperate.

    Actually, I amend my original statement - it is pretty funny to see, but it's also pretty pathetic too.

    image

  • jayfeeler69jayfeeler69 sacramento, CAPosts: 94Member
    Originally posted by GR3NDEL
    Originally posted by BadLuckBrett
    Originally posted by Uccisore
    Originally posted by jayfeeler69

    A halloween event that lasts only two weeks to possibly never be seen again is not new content sorry to break those rose tinted lenses.

           How in the hell can this possibly be considered true by any stretch of the imagination? Sounds to me like you're just out to bash the game whether you make sense or not.    Hell, you don't even count the release of a new Auxillary weapon in  update 2, you're so desperate to make the game look bad.   Depending on the extent of the Halloween event,  all three updates are about the same size, with the second one being just a bit smaller than the other two. 

    Just check the post history, since day one it was quite obvious the account was made for the sole purpose of bashing TSW. Which amuses me, since I seem to recall the banning of new accounts that were obviously made for the sole reason of trashing other games quite recently

    It is pretty amusing to see... especially with the recent good news being released (3 people being rehired, Issue #3 being released with Issue #4 on the way, the influx of new players etc. etc. etc.) - it's apparent that the 'gloom and doom' posters are getting more defensive and angry as their cherished goal of TSW falling apart becomes less and less likely.  Sure, they had their moment to crow 'Ha! I was right! I was right!' back in August but now, the facts are surely moving away from their opinion and they're getting more desperate.

    Actually, I amend my original statement - it is pretty funny to see, but it's also pretty pathetic too.

    Um they hired 3 people back yet fired over 120 on the dev teams ya thats progress /facepalm

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by GR3NDEL

    It is pretty amusing to see... especially with the recent good news being released (3 people being rehired, Issue #3 being released with Issue #4 on the way, the influx of new players etc. etc. etc.) - it's apparent that the 'gloom and doom' posters are getting more defensive and angry as their cherished goal of TSW falling apart becomes less and less likely.  Sure, they had their moment to crow 'Ha! I was right! I was right!' back in August but now, the facts are surely moving away from their opinion and they're getting more desperate.

    Actually, I amend my original statement - it is pretty funny to see, but it's also pretty pathetic too.

    I am a glass half empty type of person.  But even if I was a half full type of person, I don't see how you can spin a positive.   Hiring 3 people back, probably to take the game free to play - even though they deny it.  Half price sale of a game only out a few months.  Stock price sticking at all time low.   Ex lead developer coming out saying that in hindsight they did it wrong and should of made the game more commercial, used traditional leveling etc.  Ex CEO facing possible criminal charges.  Updates delayed for other Funcom titles.  On top of which within the next few months a host of top rated games are coming out, Borderlands 2 already upon us, Dishonored this week.  

     

    Overall TSW failed, it failed expectations from every single angle.  The fact it continues to limp along, I think is just a matter of time.  Funcom have not ruled out further cost cutting measures to keep cash flow positive.  By the sounds of it they are moving out of the MMO business, which could be viewed as positive depending on your angle.

     

    The good news is they managed to release the updates ... they had promised. That they hired three people ... after halving the workforce.  They have an Influx of new players ... because the game is being sold of at 50% off. 

     

    I should buy shares in Funcom they are obviously on the up. 

  • GR3NDELGR3NDEL Tulsa, OKPosts: 108Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jayfeeler69
    Originally posted by GR3NDEL
    Originally posted by BadLuckBrett
    Originally posted by Uccisore
    Originally posted by jayfeeler69

    A halloween event that lasts only two weeks to possibly never be seen again is not new content sorry to break those rose tinted lenses.

           How in the hell can this possibly be considered true by any stretch of the imagination? Sounds to me like you're just out to bash the game whether you make sense or not.    Hell, you don't even count the release of a new Auxillary weapon in  update 2, you're so desperate to make the game look bad.   Depending on the extent of the Halloween event,  all three updates are about the same size, with the second one being just a bit smaller than the other two. 

    Just check the post history, since day one it was quite obvious the account was made for the sole purpose of bashing TSW. Which amuses me, since I seem to recall the banning of new accounts that were obviously made for the sole reason of trashing other games quite recently

    It is pretty amusing to see... especially with the recent good news being released (3 people being rehired, Issue #3 being released with Issue #4 on the way, the influx of new players etc. etc. etc.) - it's apparent that the 'gloom and doom' posters are getting more defensive and angry as their cherished goal of TSW falling apart becomes less and less likely.  Sure, they had their moment to crow 'Ha! I was right! I was right!' back in August but now, the facts are surely moving away from their opinion and they're getting more desperate.

    Actually, I amend my original statement - it is pretty funny to see, but it's also pretty pathetic too.

    Um they hired 3 people back yet fired over 120 on the dev teams ya thats progress /facepalm

    Why yes, it is progress.  For a game studio (or any company) to hire back anyone after such dire news shows that the studio is operating with enough positive cashflow to merit the action.  No, it doesn't even come close to equalling the number of people who were laid off - and no one here is saying that.  It's my hope that we'll hear of more rehires in the near future - that will be additional evidence that the game is not failing, despite how some are so desperately wishing it to.

    image

  • jayfeeler69jayfeeler69 sacramento, CAPosts: 94Member
    Originally posted by GR3NDEL
    Originally posted by jayfeeler69
    Originally posted by GR3NDEL
    Originally posted by BadLuckBrett
    Originally posted by Uccisore
    Originally posted by jayfeeler69

    A halloween event that lasts only two weeks to possibly never be seen again is not new content sorry to break those rose tinted lenses.

           How in the hell can this possibly be considered true by any stretch of the imagination? Sounds to me like you're just out to bash the game whether you make sense or not.    Hell, you don't even count the release of a new Auxillary weapon in  update 2, you're so desperate to make the game look bad.   Depending on the extent of the Halloween event,  all three updates are about the same size, with the second one being just a bit smaller than the other two. 

    Just check the post history, since day one it was quite obvious the account was made for the sole purpose of bashing TSW. Which amuses me, since I seem to recall the banning of new accounts that were obviously made for the sole reason of trashing other games quite recently

    It is pretty amusing to see... especially with the recent good news being released (3 people being rehired, Issue #3 being released with Issue #4 on the way, the influx of new players etc. etc. etc.) - it's apparent that the 'gloom and doom' posters are getting more defensive and angry as their cherished goal of TSW falling apart becomes less and less likely.  Sure, they had their moment to crow 'Ha! I was right! I was right!' back in August but now, the facts are surely moving away from their opinion and they're getting more desperate.

    Actually, I amend my original statement - it is pretty funny to see, but it's also pretty pathetic too.

    Um they hired 3 people back yet fired over 120 on the dev teams ya thats progress /facepalm

    Why yes, it is progress.  For a game studio (or any company) to hire back anyone after such dire news shows that the studio is operating with enough positive cashflow to merit the action.  No, it doesn't even come close to equalling the number of people who were laid off - and no one here is saying that.  It's my hope that we'll hear of more rehires in the near future - that will be additional evidence that the game is not failing, despite how some are so desperately wishing it to.

    You have your head buried in the sand unable to see the obvious

  • jayfeeler69jayfeeler69 sacramento, CAPosts: 94Member
    Originally posted by fallenlords
    Originally posted by GR3NDEL

    It is pretty amusing to see... especially with the recent good news being released (3 people being rehired, Issue #3 being released with Issue #4 on the way, the influx of new players etc. etc. etc.) - it's apparent that the 'gloom and doom' posters are getting more defensive and angry as their cherished goal of TSW falling apart becomes less and less likely.  Sure, they had their moment to crow 'Ha! I was right! I was right!' back in August but now, the facts are surely moving away from their opinion and they're getting more desperate.

    Actually, I amend my original statement - it is pretty funny to see, but it's also pretty pathetic too.

    I am a glass half empty type of person.  But even if I was a half full type of person, I don't see how you can spin a positive.   Hiring 3 people back, probably to take the game free to play - even though they deny it.  Half price sale of a game only out a few months.  Stock price sticking at all time low.   Ex lead developer coming out saying that in hindsight they did it wrong and should of made the game more commercial, used traditional leveling etc.  Ex CEO facing possible criminal charges.  Updates delayed for other Funcom titles.  On top of which within the next few months a host of top rated games are coming out, Borderlands 2 already upon us, Dishonored this week.  

     

    Overall TSW failed, it failed expectations from every single angle.  The fact it continues to limp along, I think is just a matter of time.  Funcom have not ruled out further cost cutting measures to keep cash flow positive.  By the sounds of it they are moving out of the MMO business, which could be viewed as positive depending on your angle.

     

    The good news is they managed to release the updates ... they had promised. That they hired three people ... after halving the workforce.  They have an Influx of new players ... because the game is being sold of at 50% off. 

     

    I should buy shares in Funcom they are obviously on the up. 

    What influx of new players? Steam has yet to sell a thousand coopies yet having 2 half price sales already

  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 4,249Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

    I have no care or say on the TSW, however you are absolutely wrong on your definition of content.

     If you can run the October event during the event timeframe, it is content. Content is not in any way shape or form defined by how long it stays around. There are games which have once only quests, so because your character can never go back and do them after the first time they're not content? Yes, they are in content and yes in every MMO special holiday content is...... content.

    Indeed.  If we get to redefine content, we can even go after Rift, despite the fact that Trion has been dumping unprecedented amount of stuff on its players since launch.  I'm actually not too fond of the game(Rift), but their patch notes look like Santa's naughty list.  Credit where credit is due.

    A new weapon is content.  A holiday event is content.  New NPC scripting is content.

    Mission output is dying down; that's a fair enough statement.  Once all the half done stuff that wasn't available at launch gets finished, you see this happen.  Happened with most every MMO I've played.

    That said, FC should have never promised monthly content.  With or without the layoffs, that's a release schedule that's doomed from the start.  It's just not a long enough period to get material tested and shipped, and it shrinks the scope and ambition of the game.

    SWG couldn't do it, DCUO couldn't do it, TOR couldn't do it, and TSW can't do it.  These companies REALLY need to stop promising these sorts of things.

  • DraronDraron A town in, KYPosts: 993Member
    Originally posted by jayfeeler69

    You have your head buried in the sand unable to see the obvious

    If a dev team layed off a good portion of it's team, they did so for a reason - unable to support that much staff. If they hire back even just 3 of those members back, it shows things are improving. What's not to see? 

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by jayfeeler69
    Originally posted by Draron
    Originally posted by jayfeeler69

    You have your head buried in the sand unable to see the obvious

    If a dev team layed off a good portion of it's team, they did so for a reason - unable to support that much staff. If they hire back even just 3 of those members back, it shows things are improving. What's not to see? 

    [mod edit]

    I agree getting three staff back is neither here nor there.  It certainly isn't a positive indication that things are improving. It doesn't even mean they are in a positive cash flow situation as a whole.   If anything share price is always a good indication of how well a company is perceived to be doing, it doesn't tell the whole story - you need to see the financials for that.  Overall the Funcom share price is not recovering from the hit it has taken with the poor sales of TSW and the other events.
  • jayfeeler69jayfeeler69 sacramento, CAPosts: 94Member
    Originally posted by fallenlords
    Originally posted by jayfeeler69
    Originally posted by Draron
    Originally posted by jayfeeler69

    You have your head buried in the sand unable to see the obvious

    If a dev team layed off a good portion of it's team, they did so for a reason - unable to support that much staff. If they hire back even just 3 of those members back, it shows things are improving. What's not to see? 

    What do you want to bet those 3 hired werent for content, design, or bug fixes. I bet they are hired to help with the f2p transition

    I agree getting three staff back is neither here nor there.  It certainly isn't a positive indication that things are improving. It doesn't even mean they are in a positive cash flow situation as a whole.   If anything share price is always a good indication of how well a company is perceived to be doing, it doesn't tell the whole story - you need to see the financials for that.  Overall the Funcom share price is not recovering from the hit it has taken with the poor sales of TSW and the other events.

    To be fair to funcom they were tanking before TSW released

  • GR3NDELGR3NDEL Tulsa, OKPosts: 108Member Uncommon

    It seems to me that to some, there's no such thing as 'good news' where TSW is concerned.  That's fine - that opinion doesn't stop me from playing and enjoying the game, or seeing the slew of interviews, announcements and upcoming feature releases as good news.

    As I've said before, it is my hope that the next quarterly report issued by Funcom will show an increase in sales and an increase in the player base.  Whether it does or not, I will continue playing - and enjoying - TSW.

    image

  • jayfeeler69jayfeeler69 sacramento, CAPosts: 94Member
    Originally posted by GR3NDEL

    It seems to me that to some, there's no such thing as 'good news' where TSW is concerned.  That's fine - that opinion doesn't stop me from playing and enjoying the game, or seeing the slew of interviews, announcements and upcoming feature releases as good news.

    As I've said before, it is my hope that the next quarterly report issued by Funcom will show an increase in sales and an increase in the player base.  Whether it does or not, I will continue playing - and enjoying - TSW.

    Should see it by end of Nov Id wager my paycheck that they have continued to hemmorhage subs

  • EscadaEscada ManchesterPosts: 25Member

    I'm slightly concerned about TSW mostly because I want it to continue to offer me great experiences.   I've pretty much done all the quests in the game bar issue 2 and 3.  However, my cabal and I are having fun in NMs and tackling master planners atm..

    It won't last forever mind you, the content that is, and dont forget the raid is just around the corner.  Whatever happens, if I stop playing TSW for a number of months because I have played it all etc..  It is a game I will enjoy returning to.

    SC2 will no doubt be coming out before year end and I intend to have a good crack at that as well. 

     

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