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[Column] General: High Expectations

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  • NobleNerdNobleNerd Wolcott, NYPosts: 671Member Uncommon

    Personally..... I like to read about the hype and the negative of any game. I like to believe I have more than cobwebs between my ears and can reason out my own ideas of what I will like. There has been a butt load of crap in gaming for a LONG time now to sift through... nothing new. Sometimes in the low end of gaming just like in low budget films you find something great. 

     

    I was looking forward to a deeper read on the topic though. This is definately a topic that has much debating to it. I do not believe it is the suits nor the developers that cause the game to fail or be over hyped all the time. Most companies want to put out a great game. Most suits want a great game to profit from. Sometimes their ideas of what they think will be great and how it feels to the players when it is finished can end up on 2 different planets and light years apart. Ask people in a game which class they think is the best tank or damage dealer and watch the chat fly for hours!  "One man's trash is another man's treasure".

     

    As far as blaming the media and especially this site for siding with developers.... I just have not seen it happen very often on this site. I have used this site for many years and for the most part the contributors keep it balanced (more so than I would with some games). 

     

    I would love to see the day when a game is released and has no bugs or glitching! NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. It isn't because the developers are lazy or the suits pushed it out too soon, as much as there are just soooooooo many variables when the game goes live with MMOs that there is going to be something that goes wrong. Anet has always been known for a company that will wait and polish a game for years before launching it to get it "right", but even with GW2 there has been bugs and issues that popped up in the first month now since launch. Did they push it out too soon? NOT AT ALL. As players and gamers lets also keep in mind that we cause the hype for good or bad to escalate out of control sometimes. Practice some patience and understanding. Not all game developers are out to just milk the public dry. THEY ARE GAMERS TOO! They want the game to succeed and be fun to play.

     
     

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  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,592Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Stevenra
    I'm sorry but sites like this and any of the video game media is , at the very LEAST, partly to blame.  You, the industry media, who does not make clear that you will not give an actual true point of view of games instead of being so scared too offend a game developer that will pay your bills.  Until this trend of scratch my back i'll scratch yours stops we will never know just how bad a game is, going off of "professional" reviews.  Yes we do get, for the most part, beta entry into games ahead of launch but most of us only get those after preordering.  I think every article/advertisement for a game should be prefaced if that company has given your company anything.
     
     

    One has to assume that all parties involved have a conflict of interest.  Anyone who doesn't take that into account, at this late date, is part of the problem.  There is an old, OLD saying; "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.". 

    Eventually, someone is going to make the connection, that its better to under promise, and over deliver, than the reverse.  But even then, its still up to each gamer to do their own research, and make up their own mind. 

  • RyowulfRyowulf Greensburg, PAPosts: 668Member

    I agree that games are overhyped.

    I think some players are looking for a game that doesn't exist and will never exist.  A perfect game that Devs say their game is, but always fails to measure up.

    However many of the newer mmos don't just have a few faults. They are mishandled messes, created by people who should have known better but were blinded by their "vision".

  • AtrocitusAtrocitus Oa, CAPosts: 77Member Uncommon

    Heres the problem....

     

     

    EVERYONE THINKS THEY KNOW BETTER THEN THE OTHER PERSON

     

     

    Thats the problem, period.....

  • godpuppetgodpuppet NottinghamPosts: 1,416Member

    Bloody hell Pokket, you surprise me.. These words I learnt after years of following games through beta to release.. Dont expect and you wont be disapointed.. Finally a decent article from mmorpg.com 

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  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member

    I'm trying to keep this from being a massive wall of rant but it's hard with this issue. See I have high expectations and they will remain high because I do expect more from many of these developers. If you have the budget and the talent there simply is no excuse for failing to deliver quality enterainment. These suits spend so much money on Marketing and advertising campaignes and cut corners on development and testing. An over blown Cinematic commercial that gives no truths about a game are as effective in generating interest as putting the games logo on a TV screen with a release date for 30 seconds.

     

    If they want me to play for 6 months while they work on an expac then they need to give me enough content to last me for six months while entertaining me the whole time. If they want me to bounce in a month it's perfectly acceptable to give me only a months worth of content.

     

    If they want me to pay a monthly fee then everything the game has to offer at the time needs to be accessible and obtainable in game and not on some asinine cash shop. Again they also need to insure I have the content to keep me playing otherwise there simply isn't a reason for me to pay that monthly fee. 

     

    If they are going to promote the game as something different it actually needs to be something different not the same old crap with a new skin.

     

    If you want me to judge the game on it's merits and not the hype quit f'ing hyping it. Give me the facts, let the game speak for itself. I don't want to see cinematics that represent the game in no way shape or form. I want to see gameplay. I don't want to hear we have the most revolutionary AI before I buy it then find out it's the same crap with minor tweaks. If you are claiming revolutionary it better damn well be revolutionary.

     

    I'm not unreasonable. I have expectations based on variables. Indy team with a small team and low budget, my expectations aren't any close to what I have for a Large team with a lot of talent working with a large budget and already established IP.

     

    It's not my expectations that need to be lowered, its these developers and publishers dedication to quality, polish and honesty that need to be raised.

     

     

     

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by tman5
    Originally posted by NBlitz

    Which other industries can get away with releasing a buggy, half-assed product and have customers eating it all up no matter how many times history repeats itself?

    Microsoft?  Oh, wait, they've dropped to Number Three in the software world now, maybe not a good example.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • bamdorfbamdorf Chatham, NJPosts: 150Member

    Thanks Pokket....  I always enjoy your articles and casts, and find your opinions about games useful, even if I don't necessarily like precisely the same kind of gameplay.

    I like to think that I am all grown up now and realize that advertisements, marketing campaigns, and promotions (whether for products or politicians) are not cheap lies, but rather tend to be rather expensive lies.   But at the same time I can't avoid getting a little hopeful that something good may be in the offing...so I just can't become totally cynical.  

    My other observation is that the best games I have played in the last 30 years were nearly all complete surprizes where I had no particular expectations at all.   Strange, the less I expect, often,  the better the games are.    I don't know why that is!

     

     

    ---------------------------
    Rose-lipped maidens,
    Light-foot lads...

  • tkacidtkacid Calgary, ABPosts: 17Member
    I guess we will see
  • phantomghostphantomghost Atlanta, GAPosts: 687Member Uncommon

    Sounds like you finally realize (I won't mention the games name but it ends with no content)  was really a sucky game.

     

    I don't over hype any WoW clone.

    "I see they watchin' me and takin' notes on my moves, Run up on me it's all I want I ain't got nothin' to lose."

  • shavashava Somerville, MAPosts: 282Member Uncommon

    I was at a game conference at MIT recently, and talked with a few game industry folks who are terrified of the fans, because of the current trend of ignoring a game if it *isn't* hyped to 7th heaven -- then tearing it to shreds upon release.

     

    Unlike movies, the community of fans has a more integral role in gaming.  So what this means is that tens of millions of dollars of production and all goes into a rat hole when the fans decide the game doesn't meet expectations.

     

    If that happens to every launch on a regular basis, the AAA part of the game industry will fail.  Do the math, think like an investor.  

     

    it's not just the suits, or just the fans, or just the devs.  It's a really really dysfunctional relationship, and somehow the feedback loop has to get broken and fixed or the whole industry is going into the crapper.

     
  • TorlukTorluk EdinburghPosts: 162Member
    Originally posted by shava

    I was at a game conference at MIT recently, and talked with a few game industry folks who are terrified of the fans, because of the current trend of ignoring a game if it *isn't* hyped to 7th heaven -- then tearing it to shreds upon release.

     

    Unlike movies, the community of fans has a more integral role in gaming.  So what this means is that tens of millions of dollars of production and all goes into a rat hole when the fans decide the game doesn't meet expectations.

     

    If that happens to every launch on a regular basis, the AAA part of the game industry will fail.  Do the math, think like an investor.  

     

    it's not just the suits, or just the fans, or just the devs.  It's a really really dysfunctional relationship, and somehow the feedback loop has to get broken and fixed or the whole industry is going into the crapper.

     

    If I was going to release a game I'd concentrate on getting a solid and stable release with the small group of folks that know about the game because they visit sites like this, then I'd start advertising it to the masses to bring them in to try it without the drawback of their pre-conceived notions of what I had promised I would give them.

    Get the game design right, get it polished and launch it quietly before trying to ramp up the population.  Might be a solid alternative strategy.

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,592Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torluk
    Originally posted by shava

    I was at a game conference at MIT recently, and talked with a few game industry folks who are terrified of the fans, because of the current trend of ignoring a game if it *isn't* hyped to 7th heaven -- then tearing it to shreds upon release.

     

    Unlike movies, the community of fans has a more integral role in gaming.  So what this means is that tens of millions of dollars of production and all goes into a rat hole when the fans decide the game doesn't meet expectations.

     

    If that happens to every launch on a regular basis, the AAA part of the game industry will fail.  Do the math, think like an investor.  

     

    it's not just the suits, or just the fans, or just the devs.  It's a really really dysfunctional relationship, and somehow the feedback loop has to get broken and fixed or the whole industry is going into the crapper.

     

    If I was going to release a game I'd concentrate on getting a solid and stable release with the small group of folks that know about the game because they visit sites like this, then I'd start advertising it to the masses to bring them in to try it without the drawback of their pre-conceived notions of what I had promised I would give them.

    Get the game design right, get it polished and launch it quietly before trying to ramp up the population.  Might be a solid alternative strategy.

    Sure it would. If you have rock solid finances, so that the investors/publisher doesn't panic and demand that you cut corners, and push it out early to make their quarterly report look sweet.   ALL suits care about is the quarterly report.  That tends to take its toll.  These AAA projects are insanely expensive, and because of that you have suits, rather than Dev's calling the major shots, with the results we've seen way too much of over the last few years. 

  • lotapartylotaparty taxila canttPosts: 514Member
    call me ignorant but this girl doesnot know how to write an article . she comes up with her own imagination . makes two paragraphs ,and thats it . plz some more maturity . your articles are really really boringgggggg

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  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,966Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Pokket

    Stevenra: I like to think I've been very unbiased in A LOT of reviews, first impressions, etc of games that I cover. I was rather pessimistic about SWTOR, Tera, and GW2 before they launched and, while I won't say they are the game of my dreams, they are certainly something to fill my time with. I tend to give both the goods and bads of every game I've tried out. I don't give you what devs want to hear, but I do try to put the negatives nicely. There is a major difference.

     

    kaiser3282: That is completely false, sir. The Mythic version of WAR was RvR/PvP focused and had to put in PvE. You may be thinking of another version of Warhammer put on by a different company that was PvE focused and got cancelled.

     

    Freezzo: The suits call the shots on A LOT of things, and in SWTOR's case, Lucas Arts also puts their hand in the jar. Like Matt Higby said at the Future of MMO panel at PAX, there's a lot devs want to do, functionality they want to put into the game, but there is only so much they can do due to budget, time restrictions, shots called, etc. To think devs don't know what's missing from their game as they play, is really to think foolishly. Ofc they are going to say they like the game they spent hours, days, months, years working on. I'm sure they are still proud.

     
     
     
     

    Actrually, my memory of the situation is more with kaiser3282.  It was during the initial beta reports we first heard that all the RVR in WAR was designed around their WOW equivalent BG's and in fact, open world RVR was almost non-existent.

    There was such an outcry they actually delayed the release by 9 months to a year in order to go back to the drawing board and expand the RVR content.

    At the time most testers were amazed that Mythic would not design their title around open world RVR, but the influence of WOW was strong in that title.  (considering their common ancestry, unsurprising really)

    As for expecations, I don't consider mine unreasonable, (of course) and I'm really not looking for perfection. If a developer could deliver a quality MMORPG that was a bit more akin to DAOC than anything else I'd be pretty happy.  Who knows, they say Elder Scrolls online might be the one, we'll see.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by aleos
    well then i guess i'll just start hoping for the worst and never be dissapointed

    Amen  or like I said..keep your expectations low

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by shava

    I was at a game conference at MIT recently, and talked with a few game industry folks who are terrified of the fans, because of the current trend of ignoring a game if it *isn't* hyped to 7th heaven -- then tearing it to shreds upon release.

     

    Unlike movies, the community of fans has a more integral role in gaming.  So what this means is that tens of millions of dollars of production and all goes into a rat hole when the fans decide the game doesn't meet expectations.

     

    If that happens to every launch on a regular basis, the AAA part of the game industry will fail.  Do the math, think like an investor.  

     

    it's not just the suits, or just the fans, or just the devs.  It's a really really dysfunctional relationship, and somehow the feedback loop has to get broken and fixed or the whole industry is going into the crapper.

     
     

    Maybe we should just let it go *shurgs*  Have a new Ice age, kill all the dinosaurs...let the small agile mammals take over (till they become content fat and lazy and they too die out)

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Suzie_Ford

     

    I played this new game recently. I won't say the name, but let's just note that I played it. I played it a lot and I liked it a lot. It was fully polished, it had modified questing in a way that, well, I didn't feel like I was questing, and when I got a fully leveled toon, the end game was so vast that I wasn't bored at all. The gear grind was actually enjoyable, there were very few bugs that I encountered, and the content in the game would rival the gigantic beast WoW has become over the past 7 years.

     

     

    Minus the bit about being fully polished and there being very few bugs, that game was Star Wars Galaxies.

  • phantomghostphantomghost Atlanta, GAPosts: 687Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Suzie_Ford

     

    I played this new game recently. I won't say the name, but let's just note that I played it. I played it a lot and I liked it a lot. It was fully polished, it had modified questing in a way that, well, I didn't feel like I was questing, and when I got a fully leveled toon, the end game was so vast that I wasn't bored at all. The gear grind was actually enjoyable, there were very few bugs that I encountered, and the content in the game would rival the gigantic beast WoW has become over the past 7 years.

     

     

    Minus the bit about being fully polished and there being very few bugs, that game was Star Wars Galaxies.

    SWG was very good game.  Not my favorite but I definitely enjoyed it a lot more than many (really all) recent games.

    "I see they watchin' me and takin' notes on my moves, Run up on me it's all I want I ain't got nothin' to lose."

  • OzivoisOzivois Phoenix, AZPosts: 598Member

    Strange article -- it sounds like a random thought expanded into several paragraphs with some advertisements stuck in the middle. 

    If we lowered our expectations that we would simply stop buying MMO's.  It is our eagerness to find and play a fun MMO that lasts that brings us to this site and has us spending money on these games.  The developer's goals are the same as ours.

    No we are not going to lower our expectations.  As a matter of fact, as technology improves our expectations just keep growing.

  • IrishChaiIrishChai St Louis, MOPosts: 529Member Uncommon

     

    I actually didn't think you (Pokket) were making that up at the beginning until I got to the next paragraph. Anyhow, I think it couldn't have been said better with just this one sentence; "Overhyping the next title, and having high expectations is what leads to disappointment."

     

    I'm not trying to sell anything when I say that's the code of practice for many people around the world (not going to name the philosophy here). The point is it's completely possible to learn to respect the worth of something just as it is. It's a really simple idea. We have a pretty decent influence over our own perspective, so sometimes it just takes a bit of tweaking to enjoy what is given instead of looking for something we can't quite define or find.

     

    Lots of games, books, and movies are enjoyed by millions all around the world. The material is not the only one to blame for our disappointment. How we interpret it makes a huge difference. Of course the interests and experiences we've developed all our life will stay a big part of that interpretation, but if we just can't enjoy anything anywhere than we are being our own worst enemy. There should be a middle-ground within all of us where we don't go around liking everything like we're on drugs, but we don't go around hating everything either. I just enjoy some of it, and pass on the rest for another to enjoy instead.

     

    Basically, if we keep buying in to every game, book, or movie as possibly being 'the one', yet everything we experience ends up far from our expectations, than we probably need a reality check. I think it's more likely we are in the wrong hobby or need to get out more because there are those of us that really enjoy a lot of different things. The people that can't seem to enjoy anything need to learn from that.

  • IrishChaiIrishChai St Louis, MOPosts: 529Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ozivois

    Strange article -- it sounds like a random thought expanded into several paragraphs with some advertisements stuck in the middle. 

    If we lowered our expectations that we would simply stop buying MMO's.  It is our eagerness to find and play a fun MMO that lasts that brings us to this site and has us spending money on these games.  The developer's goals are the same as ours.

    No we are not going to lower our expectations.  As a matter of fact, as technology improves our expectations just keep growing.

     

    If your expectations are so high that everything fails, then you have a choice. Lower them or continue to walk around hating on everything because you are not seeing clearly. Of course our expectations grow over time and with new technology, but that doesn't mean expectations are in line with reality. Far too many people have a distorted view of reality, so there is a huge point to be made that sometimes our expectations are precisely the problem.

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    You know if game companies would not promise the sun, moon/ans stars maybe we would not learn to expect them.

    Case in point swtor,  were going to have 2 years of content at release that was a lie,  were going to have 10 years worth of content another lie, were going to have 200+ planets another lie.   So where your told all these lies and you expect to get them and you don't then the game does not live up to the hype.

    I could go on about what other games have promised I would be here for days compiling that last of hype/lies.

    So yes it is not our fault, the game companies need to live up to what they promise.

  • DblstdDblstd Someplace, NYPosts: 2Member
    Originally posted by Stevenra
    I'm sorry but sites like this and any of the video game media is , at the very LEAST, partly to blame.  You, the industry media, who does not make clear that you will not give an actual true point of view of games instead of being so scared too offend a game developer that will pay your bills.  Until this trend of scratch my back i'll scratch yours stops we will never know just how bad a game is, going off of "professional" reviews.  Yes we do get, for the most part, beta entry into games ahead of launch but most of us only get those after preordering.  I think every article/advertisement for a game should be prefaced if that company has given your company anything.
     
     

    So true, this site deserves a lot of the blame for throwing away all journalistic ethics and  working hand and foot with developers to  hype poorly made games to the extreme.

    Beware, if you write thoughtful and critical posts of a game that this site receives advertising dollars from you may be banned. If you write senseless and substance less but positive posts you can engage in any type of bad behavior you want. If you help hype games and help this site make money by getting more page hits you can engage in name calling, personal attacks and get posts removed of those who are critical of a game that you like.

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