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So they remove the "grind" for 2.0?

2

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  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member
    Originally posted by IAmMMO
    Originally posted by DAS1337

    That's because it's never really been about the grind.  It's the hacking and exploiting that caused a huge gap between veterans and new players.  It's a jack of all trades system that allowed it in the first place.  However, they couldn't completely fix it without a wipe.  Well, now their hands were forced into just that.

     

    There are a ton of aspects about the game that are going to be fixed, along with the GUI/UI and graphics upgrades.  I think they will see a significant boost in population compared to the original game.  I wish one of the fixes was streamlining the combat perspective, but that doesn't change my opinion.

    "Players can switch between roles, skills, spells, and ability boosters on the fly." 

    Taken from the DF UW website. Being able to change on the fly is making people jack of all trades. Unless they made a mistake and still have the timer to put on armour as is in DF1.0, but then why say on the fly?

    1) Theres a cool down on roll changing

    2) Once in a roll (which everyone will probably have to pick) your access to skills is restricted

     

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  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member

    The progression will still be there. You can spend time mastering a ton of skills. The difference now is you can only use a very specific set at once, you choose a loadout from what you've mastered, essentially. Just like Eve. Best of both worlds really.

    And why do people keep mentioning hacking? Hacking was a problem like.. once, 3 months after launch. Then they all got banned. After that, I didn't see another hacker again for 2 years.

  • CallsignVegaCallsignVega Chicago, ILPosts: 235Member Uncommon
    So the game won't be re-launched and start from scratch? That seems silly as new players will just get slaughtered by old ones for a long time. 
  • Rorschach1797Rorschach1797 BernasendenstadtPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by CallsignVega
    So the game won't be re-launched and start from scratch? That seems silly as new players will just get slaughtered by old ones for a long time. 

    They didn´t write anything yet. But u can be 99.,95% sure that they will wipe everything!

  • CallsignVegaCallsignVega Chicago, ILPosts: 235Member Uncommon
    Does anyone know how much they are revamping the graphics and the animations? I remember beta testing DF and the graphics and animations were some of the worst I've ever seen. Was a huge turnoff.
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by CallsignVega
    Does anyone know how much they are revamping the graphics and the animations? I remember beta testing DF and the graphics and animations were some of the worst I've ever seen. Was a huge turnoff.

    Worst you've ever seen, have you played WoW? Now that's an eyesore.

     

    But yes the graphics have all been redone and the animations are motion captured.

  • JimLadJimLad ReadingPosts: 187Member

    Personally I'd be happy with a battle arena MMO. No progression, no handicaps, just fighting and looting and building. But that's just me. :P

    The combat really should be at the core of this game. The main thing that made me quit Darkfall 1 was how empty and boring it was most of the time. They really didn't do much to encourage factional warfare, just ganking. Which forced players to stay in their clan cities and left the rest of the world abandoned.

    I never understood the concept of grind. It's like a substitute for actually learning a skill, usually when a game isn't interesting enough to require it.

  • gravesworngravesworn charleston, WVPosts: 324Member
    There is no wipe because this is a new game. How does this cinfuse people? There are no characters on the servers. The vets will be familiar with the terrian to a degree but they will not have their dfo characters for uw... Lol.
  • phantomghostphantomghost Atlanta, GAPosts: 687Member Uncommon

    I personally enjoyed the grind.  I like that someones hardwork gives them an advantage.

     

    However, the main issue for me was exploiting occurred early on and that separated abilities early on, allowing exploiters to have a significant advantage.

     

    I also went into the game wanting what they said... using 1 skill may decrease another, so you could not master everything.

     

    What it seemed like was to rule pvp you needed to max magic/archery.  I hope this time with the roles, it makes it more balanced so not everybody is the same. 

    "I see they watchin' me and takin' notes on my moves, Run up on me it's all I want I ain't got nothin' to lose."

  • FusionFusion VaasaPosts: 1,391Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by phantomghost

    I personally enjoyed the grind.  I like that someones hardwork gives them an advantage.

     

    However, the main issue for me was exploiting occurred early on and that separated abilities early on, allowing exploiters to have a significant advantage.

     

    I also went into the game wanting what they said... using 1 skill may decrease another, so you could not master everything.

     

    What it seemed like was to rule pvp you needed to max magic/archery.  I hope this time with the roles, it makes it more balanced so not everybody is the same. 

     

    When it takes a year to reach level that another player is, that doesn't equal "hard work" (pls. don't take EVE into comparison). That equals 180$ us, a f%¤ton of macroing nights etc. I don't call that "playing/hard work" i call it tenacity (which isn't what games are about, games are about fun, entertainment and competition on equal basis "gameplay wise" player skill is another discussion.) ps. macroing still exists for skillgains.

     

    You could master everything, with macroing nights, bloodwalls, spin-swimming, acidpooling etc etc.

     

    And whoop, on the flipside, your now defending the casual players? making it more balanced?

    Did i miss some critical point in your post, or why does it seem like you love the advantage of exploiting, macroing and whatnot, but you want balance accross the plane for equality?

     

     

    What i fear most for the "new game" is that exploiters will not be permabanned for "acidpooling, bloodwalling" etc. AV needs to take a strict policy for that kind of behavious from the get-go, to make the game work for the wider audience!

    Currently playing: -

    Waiting for: Class4.

    Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  • FusionFusion VaasaPosts: 1,391Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CallsignVega
    Does anyone know how much they are revamping the graphics and the animations? I remember beta testing DF and the graphics and animations were some of the worst I've ever seen. Was a huge turnoff.

    No one has seen the "new" engine, animations.. there are some screenshots of the new build on this site for starters. http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/875/view/screens altho they're all enviromental shots, (+ they have some renders on their forums if you dig deep enough)

    Animation wise, im not too convinced, there won't be mocapped stuff which im pretty sure of and im also not waiting for crysis graphics (simply because it is supposed to cater for 100+ vs 100+ sieges). It'll be somewhat similar, but hopefully alot better, only time will tell, untill then, we'll just have to wait for a gameplay video.

    All in all, i think it'll be more of the same, not much will be changed animations/graphics wise, just some shaders and dynamic lighting perhaps some fixed/smoother animations and sharper textures, but that's about it. It's not like it's an entirely new engine and stuff, it's just an enhanced version of the old engine.

     

    I'd compare it to launch EQ1 to "2004" EQ1 "GFX upgrade"

    Currently playing: -

    Waiting for: Class4.

    Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  • phantomghostphantomghost Atlanta, GAPosts: 687Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fusion
    Originally posted by phantomghost

    I personally enjoyed the grind.  I like that someones hardwork gives them an advantage.

     

    However, the main issue for me was exploiting occurred early on and that separated abilities early on, allowing exploiters to have a significant advantage.

     

    I also went into the game wanting what they said... using 1 skill may decrease another, so you could not master everything.

     

    What it seemed like was to rule pvp you needed to max magic/archery.  I hope this time with the roles, it makes it more balanced so not everybody is the same. 

     

    When it takes a year to reach level that another player is, that doesn't equal "hard work" (pls. don't take EVE into comparison). That equals 180$ us, a f%¤ton of macroing nights etc. I don't call that "playing/hard work" i call it tenacity (which isn't what games are about, games are about fun, entertainment and competition on equal basis "gameplay wise" player skill is another discussion.) ps. macroing still exists for skillgains.

     

    You could master everything, with macroing nights, bloodwalls, spin-swimming, acidpooling etc etc.

     

    And whoop, on the flipside, your now defending the casual players? making it more balanced?

    Did i miss some critical point in your post, or why does it seem like you love the advantage of exploiting, macroing and whatnot, but you want balance accross the plane for equality?

     

     

    What i fear most for the "new game" is that exploiters will not be permabanned for "acidpooling, bloodwalling" etc. AV needs to take a strict policy for that kind of behavious from the get-go, to make the game work for the wider audience!

    [mod edit]

    After stating I like the grind I stated:

    However, the main issue for me was exploiting occurred early on and that separated abilities early on, allowing exploiters to have a significant advantage.

     

    And as far as the word hardwork, I cannot think of the perfect word.  I like that somebody who puts more time into their character (them putting time not their macros hacks and exploits) have an advantage over somebody who does not.  I feel the word hardwork was good enough that you would realize macroing or exploiting is not "hardwork" even if the word hardwork is not an appropriate word to state the effort someone puts in... since its a video game and should not technically me hardwork. 

     

    I do not defend the casual player by making it balanced.  If you read what I stated I want the game to be what it was stated having limits, not maxing out every single skill.  I also do not want one skill to be the "best" way to go for all scenarios.

     

    "I see they watchin' me and takin' notes on my moves, Run up on me it's all I want I ain't got nothin' to lose."

  • NC360NC360 Rome, NYPosts: 67Member
    Originally posted by redman875
    Im a firm beliver that eventhough a lot of hardcore pvpers stated the grind as the reason for the current games lack of overwhelming populairity...every time theyve reduced grind population remained the same.  Even now with its retarded 20x XP.

    The answer is rather simple: People have no desire to play a game that is going to be wiped, and which also doesn't offer any unique roles like in Unholy Wars, so even with faster experience people are waiting till the next game.

    Case closed.

  • redman875redman875 illinois, ILPosts: 230Member
    Originally posted by Fusion
    Originally posted by phantomghost

    I personally enjoyed the grind.  I like that someones hardwork gives them an advantage.

     

    However, the main issue for me was exploiting occurred early on and that separated abilities early on, allowing exploiters to have a significant advantage.

     

    I also went into the game wanting what they said... using 1 skill may decrease another, so you could not master everything.

     

    What it seemed like was to rule pvp you needed to max magic/archery.  I hope this time with the roles, it makes it more balanced so not everybody is the same. 

     

    When it takes a year to reach level that another player is, that doesn't equal "hard work" (pls. don't take EVE into comparison). That equals 180$ us, a f%¤ton of macroing nights etc. I don't call that "playing/hard work" i call it tenacity (which isn't what games are about, games are about fun, entertainment and competition on equal basis "gameplay wise" player skill is another discussion.) ps. macroing still exists for skillgains.

     

    You could master everything, with macroing nights, bloodwalls, spin-swimming, acidpooling etc etc.

     

    And whoop, on the flipside, your now defending the casual players? making it more balanced?

    Did i miss some critical point in your post, or why does it seem like you love the advantage of exploiting, macroing and whatnot, but you want balance accross the plane for equality?

     

     

    What i fear most for the "new game" is that exploiters will not be permabanned for "acidpooling, bloodwalling" etc. AV needs to take a strict policy for that kind of behavious from the get-go, to make the game work for the wider audience!

    You problem, and the problem with moist who stayed in DF, was their brain was wired to think like you..."i have to macro for x amount of time before i can play"

    The mentality that it was unacceptable to leave town with a character anything below maxed was probably the dumbest community mentality ive seen in a mmorpg.

    I didnt macro once, i actually ENJOYED playing the game.  Yes i was bad at pvp too...and still played.

    I would rather be bad at pvp in a game that gets the adreniline pumping and offers a challange than dominate in an easy mode no risk themepark.

     

    Removing the grind basically takes a game that had a decent pve side, that was under appreciated by those who stayed, and making this game wasically a persistant battleground type game.  Not sure that will have long term appeal, and i say this after playing 1.0 since like 2009

     

    Oh and tons of players who would have love the game for its pve left at launch because of the way the game was set up, it was easy for griefers to camp the goblin spawns and camp people who hadnt learned the GUI ect. Really the only people who stayed were the ones who macroed and saw the game only for its pvp, which is kind of sad, 1.0 is an epic pve game if you enjoy farming, which yes, many still do.  I wonder what the game would look like with 5k pve players who dont mind pvp and 2k pvpers who loathe all things pve, rather than the current 3k pvpers and 50 pve'er...probably wouldnt be such a pain to find pvp in game.

  • phantomghostphantomghost Atlanta, GAPosts: 687Member Uncommon

    That is exactly right...

     

    I remember searching for places I thought I would be safe to let the mobs beat me down so I could raise my defensive skills.  I never did find that safe place, but I still did spend hours raising the skills... and never did I actually max them out, but I felt like I was actually earning my characters improvements. 

     

     

    "I see they watchin' me and takin' notes on my moves, Run up on me it's all I want I ain't got nothin' to lose."

  • corpusccorpusc Chattanooga, TNPosts: 1,330Member

    vertical char progression and PVP should NEVER be mixed.

     

    its fine and good for single player/coop games,

     

    but NEVER PVP

    The End
    ---------------------------
    i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  • KeegarKeegar FryslanPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by corpusc

    vertical char progression and PVP should NEVER be mixed.

     

    its fine and good for single player/coop games,

     

    but NEVER PVP

    disagree strongly, its an mmorpg after all. nothing wrong with some difference in characters. If you dont want char progression and pvp in one game, play Call of Duty!

  • NatrisNatris BrnoPosts: 38Member
    You do not have to get rid of grind. It is enough to make some roles quite fast to get maxed. You can have some roles quite grindy, maxing all roles may be even grindier than in DF1, important is that casual can play relatively easy to play role (Warrior?) not so long after starting up. This way you retain those who enjoy grinding and appeal also to those who abhor it.
     
  • HotjazzHotjazz BalsfjordPosts: 742Member
    Originally posted by Keegar

    disagree strongly, its an mmorpg after all. nothing wrong with some difference in characters. If you dont want char progression and pvp in one game, play Call of Duty!

    This is were you new players are getting lost. You are so used to grind and level that you are not able to think outside the box.Lets imagine a hardcore player and casual player, and bouth have the same stats and levels. In every aspect of the game the hardcore player will an edge over the casual player.

     

    The hardcore player owns a SOTL, the casual player a raft.

    The hardcore player have a dozen horses, the casual run on fot.

    The hardcore player have dragon armor, the casual bone.

    The hardcore player has a bank full of great stuff, the casual don`t.

    The hardcore player is loaded with money, the casual player is poor.

    The hardcore player has more experience than the casual player.

    The hardcore player owns a hous, the casual player lives in a starter city.

     

    Don`t you see that there already  is a char progression? We don`t need more grind than the grind for gear and materials, because the gear define the level and stats of your char.

     

     

  • NatrisNatris BrnoPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by Hotjazz
    Originally posted by Keegar

    disagree strongly, its an mmorpg after all. nothing wrong with some difference in characters. If you dont want char progression and pvp in one game, play Call of Duty!

    This is were you new players are getting lost. You are so used to grind and level that you are not able to think outside the box.Lets imagine a hardcore player and casual player, and bouth have the same stats and levels. In every aspect of the game the hardcore player will an edge over the casual player.

     

    The hardcore player owns a SOTL, the casual player a raft.

    The hardcore player have a dozen horses, the casual run on fot.

    The hardcore player have dragon armor, the casual bone.

    The hardcore player has a bank full of great stuff, the casual don`t.

    The hardcore player is loaded with money, the casual player is poor.

    The hardcore player has more experience than the casual player.

    The hardcore player owns a hous, the casual player lives in a starter city.

     

    Don`t you see that there already  is a char progression? We don`t need more grind than the grind for gear and materials, because the gear define the level and stats of your char.

     

     

    There are various types of people. Some enjoy thrill of PvP kill, some enjoy political side, some enjoy PvE, some enjoy crafting, and some enjoy character progression. And character progression has special property in the game - it is the only thing you really keep in the game, you can lose anything else when you die, and makes you log on even though you have enough stuff for your player style otherwise. There are various types of people in the world and everyone enjoys differend stuff. Removing char grind will alienate some, having it as huge as DF1 had alienates much more. Let's hope AV finds the ideal point inbetween.

  • DKTuesdayDKTuesday Clayton, NCPosts: 15Member Uncommon
    I don't even play DF, but I have been reading the information about DF:UW and following it.  Last time I checked, based on the version of English I know, less does not equal removed.
  • TopherpunchTopherpunch Apex, NCPosts: 86Member
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by redman875

    Also..whats the point of fixing all this stuff if your just going to be maxed out in a month...at least in my eyes.  Im not asking for the games origional 1.5 years heavy play to max, they increased XP i think 2 or 3 times and added medatation for offline skill gains...that was still fine...just the themepark timeframe to max level...i hate it.

    But there's no skill in grinding, a macro or trained chimp can do it.  The people I've played with since UO are competitive PvP players and want to be on an even footing within a reasonable amount of time.  (UO/SB) 

    Games should be fun, not feel like a job.

    I'll never understand people like you

    If a video game feels like a job for you I suggest you find somewhere new to work. Going out and selecting a nice and difficult model airplane and putting it together should be a process, if I wanted the one that snaps together and comes painted I will just buy a hotwheels  one. Jesus people... It says sandbox..... SANDBOX MEANS SLOWWWW. Stop trying to reinvent the genre. No one cares that you want to be on par with the vets in a couple hours. They are vets because they took time out of their life and used it towards a hobby. You have the same opportunity to do the same. There is not reason you should be able to take that from the veteran.

    image


    Come check out what I have to say on my blog http://civilgamer.com

    Also check out http;//agonasylum.com for Darkfall player trading and stories forums

  • TopherpunchTopherpunch Apex, NCPosts: 86Member
    Originally posted by Hotjazz
    Originally posted by Keegar

    disagree strongly, its an mmorpg after all. nothing wrong with some difference in characters. If you dont want char progression and pvp in one game, play Call of Duty!

    This is were you new players are getting lost. You are so used to grind and level that you are not able to think outside the box.Lets imagine a hardcore player and casual player, and bouth have the same stats and levels. In every aspect of the game the hardcore player will an edge over the casual player.

     

    The hardcore player owns a SOTL, the casual player a raft.

    The hardcore player have a dozen horses, the casual run on fot.

    The hardcore player have dragon armor, the casual bone.

    The hardcore player has a bank full of great stuff, the casual don`t.

    The hardcore player is loaded with money, the casual player is poor.

    The hardcore player has more experience than the casual player.

    The hardcore player owns a hous, the casual player lives in a starter city.

     

    Don`t you see that there already  is a char progression? We don`t need more grind than the grind for gear and materials, because the gear define the level and stats of your char.

     

     

    What did you just say? I read this a few times over and I don't understand this arguement.

    image


    Come check out what I have to say on my blog http://civilgamer.com

    Also check out http;//agonasylum.com for Darkfall player trading and stories forums

  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by Topherpunch
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by redman875

    Also..whats the point of fixing all this stuff if your just going to be maxed out in a month...at least in my eyes.  Im not asking for the games origional 1.5 years heavy play to max, they increased XP i think 2 or 3 times and added medatation for offline skill gains...that was still fine...just the themepark timeframe to max level...i hate it.

    But there's no skill in grinding, a macro or trained chimp can do it.  The people I've played with since UO are competitive PvP players and want to be on an even footing within a reasonable amount of time.  (UO/SB) 

    Games should be fun, not feel like a job.

    I'll never understand people like you

    If a video game feels like a job for you I suggest you find somewhere new to work. Going out and selecting a nice and difficult model airplane and putting it together should be a process, if I wanted the one that snaps together and comes painted I will just buy a hotwheels  one. Jesus people... It says sandbox..... SANDBOX MEANS SLOWWWW. Stop trying to reinvent the genre. No one cares that you want to be on par with the vets in a couple hours. They are vets because they took time out of their life and used it towards a hobby. You have the same opportunity to do the same. There is not reason you should be able to take that from the veteran.

    WTF are you talking about, what "sandboxes" have you been playing? Clearly you have no idea what Sandbox is, as it has NOTHING to do with progression.  You could have a viable PvP character in SB and UO in a matter of days, yet its just the beginning as you venture out.   There is no "end game" ...

  • gravesworngravesworn charleston, WVPosts: 324Member
    There are images of what the character models for orks, mahiram and humans look like. They released them this summer and they do look a lot different than the current models. Not zomg best grahics ever but they look less stale
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