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Race Decline: Do you want to see more Playable Races in Future MMOs?

DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,402Member Uncommon

Do you want to see more Playable Races in future MMORPGs? Since 2007, there has been a large decline in the variety of races per popular game.

 

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Comments

  • LeoghanLeoghan Herndon, VAPosts: 607Member

    Playable species without a reason to play them is pointless. Take SWTOR, they are supposed ot be releasing a new species, but with no new story element (the supposed hallmark of that game) it is just a costume change. 

    Then take for example STO, some might even argue that creating your own species and customizing the pre-made one's was a game in and of itself. 

    I tend to like more variety, I tend to want more species choices out of my games, even if I have to pay for them. 

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member

    I would. And not just humanoid or bipedal races. GW2's Female Sylvari with breasts makes no sense as their young do not suckle, as far as I know. Do Sylvari even have sex? lol Reptilian races would fall under the same critique.

    A true variety of races would be a welcome sight, in my opinion.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • JaedorJaedor Denver, COPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon

    Since I don't look at my character when I play it, I don't care about appearance. So imo, there's no need for many racial choices unless it is related to faction, lore and/or racial bonuses.

  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,402Member Uncommon

    I personally don't need any meaning or ancient lore to enjoy a vast variety of races. The more the better.

    Star Trek Online, however, did do a fantastic job with the "Custom Race" option. It's just too bad that the game sucked (for me) after Character Creation.

    "Custom Races" via Character Creation is a fantastic idea. If the creation process is deep enough, perhaps one day this is all we'll need for choice.

     

    At the moment, I want to see 20+ races per game. I don't care if their origin has no meaning. I want variety.

  • LeoghanLeoghan Herndon, VAPosts: 607Member
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    I personally don't need any meaning or ancient lore to enjoy a vast variety of races. The more the better.

    Star Trek Online, however, did do a fantastic job with the "Custom Race" option. It's just too bad that the game sucked (for me) after Character Creation.

    "Custom Races" via Character Creation is a fantastic idea. If the creation process is deep enough, perhaps one day this is all we'll need for choice.

     

    At the moment, I want to see 20+ races per game. I don't care if their origin has no meaning. I want variety.

    Well Vanguard obviously was the closest to what you are looking for at least in species variety of pre-made species. What was cool about their species though was each one had a starting area and a "style" and they had their own lore to different degrees. 

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon

    I only want to see as many races as "makes sense" to the world.

    The one thing I truly appreciate is good design. Throwing in every conceivable race just for the sake of variety is not good design. Becuase then it feels like "everything but the kitchen sink".

    In any case, that's just my opinion.

  • LeoghanLeoghan Herndon, VAPosts: 607Member
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    I only want to see as many races as "makes sense" to the world.

    The one thing I truly appreciate is good design. Throwing in every conceivable race just for the sake of variety is not good design. Becuase then it feels like "everything but the kitchen sink".

    In any case, that's just my opinion.

    The flip side to this of course is a game like SWTOR, where so many species make sense in the game, but the developers limited the players on account of "story", but then made species have little to no impact on story. 

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    In before "no to more classes and races because it hurt personal stories and e-sport balance'.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,657Member Uncommon

    "Since 2007, there has been a large decline in the variety of races per popular game."

    Ultima Online

    Asheron's Call

    EVE Online

    Lineage

     

    Depending how 'popular' is defined (yay, for vauge terms to be able to shift your goalposts if necessary) plenty more can be added to the list on both ends of the scale, but the point is the graph is utter horseshit.

    If there has been a decline in the number of races present in the MMOs that players choose to play, then that would indicate that either players want less races or MMOs with less races prove to be better games, no?

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • L0C0ManL0C0Man Puerto OrdazPosts: 1,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    I would. And not just humanoid or bipedal races. GW2's Female Sylvari with breasts makes no sense as their young do not suckle, as far as I know. Do Sylvari even have sex? lol Reptilian races would fall under the same critique.

    A true variety of races would be a welcome sight, in my opinion.

    (GW2 Lore Nerd Mode On) Female Sylvari has breasts because humans do, and since the pale tree modeled the sylvari the humans (since it was a human that planted it), then they had human shape. And BTW, yes, they do have sex... but it's a common theme among sylvari that since they do not procreate trough sex, it's mostly done for relationship purposes, which means that same sex relationships are almost as common as different sex ones. (Lore nerd mode off).. :)

    Actually GW2 took a little more advanced stance when it comes to this, since the females of 2 out of the 5 races actually don't have breasts (Charr and Asura), even to the point where there are several armor models that if you equip them in a female they use the same model than the male ones, including a few that leave the chest area uncovered (NOTE: again, that is in Charr and Asura only, this isn't AoC.. :) ).

    Back to the original topic... I'd definitively want to see more playable races in future MMOs, as long as they're well developed. What I mean is, I'd rather play an MMO with 5 or 6 playable raced, but with each one having their own starter areas and style than one with 20 or 25 where everyone share the same starting areas and are basically the same but with different models. Also, I'd rather see more variety between the races, not just the standard fantasy "human... big human... small human... small stocky human... thin human with pointy ears" bit.

    EDIT: BTW, for the graphic to be more accurate, WoW should have 8 races since it's what they had around the time of EQ2 and SWG (where it's placed), and in any case it should be listed with 10 between Vanguard and AoC, 12 betwen Aion and Rift and 14 after GW2.

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  • DemogorgonDemogorgon New York, NYPosts: 206Member Common

    Not only more races, but ones with different strenghts and weaknesses imo.

    Thats what makes a good RPG.

  • LeoghanLeoghan Herndon, VAPosts: 607Member
    Originally posted by Demogorgon

    Not only more races, but ones with different strenghts and weaknesses imo.

    Thats what makes a good RPG.

    What comes with this, something I love, but many don't, is the ability to knowingly gimp your character. 

  • futnatusfutnatus SomeplacePosts: 193Member

    Lots of races, yes please!

     

    Due to a bit of sci-fi writing recently, I fell onto something.  A space setting allows for one of the biggest varieties in species, with a whooole bunch from each planet, which there would naturally be a ton of.  Whether accessible of course is arguable.

     

    Fantasy has naturally been able to compete on some scale, definitely.  From humans, different kinds of humans, elves, different kinds of elves, dwarves and ... you guessed it, different kinds of dwarves... to dryads, half-animal folk of many kinds - werewolves and bipedal tigers for example, - demons and angels - which the game can say there is a zillion different kinds of cos Hell/Heaven/Underworld can be vast...  Oh that definitely includes different planes of existence and elementals.

     

    What else... Hmmm...  I'm just enjoying myself a spout of creativity.

     

    Underwater peeps, gotta have some.  Whether it's fishy people to straight up mermen and sirens, something works.

    Rock people, I would like playable golem-like figures. 

    Sky people!  Gotta have wings.  Maybe avians were partially already covered? Ah well.

    And when there are organized groups a species as enemies in games, why couldn't we play those?  Because the adventureres love to kill them and playing one would mean constant trashing?  Eh.  Write a setting where it works!

     

    And stuff.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    "Since 2007, there has been a large decline in the variety of races per popular game."

    Ultima Online

    Asheron's Call

    EVE Online

    Lineage

     

    Depending how 'popular' is defined (yay, for vauge terms to be able to shift your goalposts if necessary) plenty more can be added to the list on both ends of the scale, but the point is the graph is utter horseshit.

    If there has been a decline in the number of races present in the MMOs that players choose to play, then that would indicate that either players want less races or MMOs with less races prove to be better games, no?

    Popular is a vague term but to be fair, how many games would you like him to list?  Of course there will be outliers on both sides.

    Your last statement is probably true.  Fewer players appear to care about the race of their character so development studios just don't bother with a large selection.  Shiney gear is the order of the day.

    It's too bad though, I really like variety in playable races.

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  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by Demogorgon

    Not only more races, but ones with different strenghts and weaknesses imo.

    Thats what makes a good RPG.

    Yeah I miss that.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    A lot of old games had "filler races" and "filler classes". Hell, Vanguard even had filler level-ups with filler skills. Why?- Well, partly because they are padding (atleast in Vanguard's case) but mostly because the balance was horrendous and few races and classes (as well as their combos) were simply better than some others.

    Playing with those sucky classes or races means you are oblivious to balance (which is fine because ignorance is bliss), you are trying to be cool by playing with a disadvantage (which wouldn't score points with me) or you could be a hipster.

    Its like with rogue-like games, after a while you'll notice that ogres make the best warriors or high elfs make the best mages. And soon you'll realise too that paladins and clerics are as good as warriors but better, so why play warriors in the first place? On the other hand, mages usually rock in nearly every game... but they sucked in Morrowind.

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  • k11keeperk11keeper Kalama, WAPosts: 1,056Member Uncommon
    I agree with the notion that you should have as many as it makes sense. Sometimes when there is 20+ races it just seems like they are throwing in more just for the sake of having more. Then again if you only have a couple choices it feels like everyone running around is the same.
  • LeoghanLeoghan Herndon, VAPosts: 607Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    A lot of old games had "filler races" and "filler classes". Hell, Vanguard even had filler level-ups with filler skills. Why?- Well, partly because they are padding (atleast in Vanguard's case) but mostly because the balance was horrendous and few races and classes (as well as their combos) were simply better than some others.

    Playing with those sucky classes or races means you are oblivious to balance (which is fine because ignorance is bliss), you are trying to be cool by playing with a disadvantage (which wouldn't score points with me) or you could be a hipster.

    Its like with rogue-like games, after a while you'll notice that ogres make the best warriors or high elfs make the best mages. And soon you'll realise too that paladins and clerics are as good as warriors but better, so why play warriors in the first place? On the other hand, mages usually rock in nearly every game... but they sucked in Morrowind.

    This is the min/maxer point of view. Nothing wrong with it, but it isn't the only one out there. To each their own, I don't see a lot of games on the horizon offering 20+ races especially not for free, and I'm not sure it is necessary, but there is without a doubt people who like variety, look at DnD's success, part of it comes from the fact that they appeal to people who want more variety, so every few months they publish a new book with new races or new classes and they make a boat load of money. 

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dave6660
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    "Since 2007, there has been a large decline in the variety of races per popular game."

    Ultima Online

    Asheron's Call

    EVE Online

    Lineage

     

    Depending how 'popular' is defined (yay, for vauge terms to be able to shift your goalposts if necessary) plenty more can be added to the list on both ends of the scale, but the point is the graph is utter horseshit.

    If there has been a decline in the number of races present in the MMOs that players choose to play, then that would indicate that either players want less races or MMOs with less races prove to be better games, no?

    Popular is a vague term but to be fair, how many games would you like him to list?  Of course there will be outliers on both sides.

    Ok, so let's just add those four. Doesn't just that four debunk both the graph and the premise?

    EDIT: It's been bugging me for ten minutes now, so I have to ask: Other than "the data doesn't fit what we want to present' by what criteria are those outliers?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,989Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by dave6660
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    "Since 2007, there has been a large decline in the variety of races per popular game."

    Ultima Online

    Asheron's Call

    EVE Online

    Lineage

     

    Depending how 'popular' is defined (yay, for vauge terms to be able to shift your goalposts if necessary) plenty more can be added to the list on both ends of the scale, but the point is the graph is utter horseshit.

    If there has been a decline in the number of races present in the MMOs that players choose to play, then that would indicate that either players want less races or MMOs with less races prove to be better games, no?

    Popular is a vague term but to be fair, how many games would you like him to list?  Of course there will be outliers on both sides.

    Ok, so let's just add those four. Doesn't just that four debunk both the graph and the premise?

     

    Possibly, but then you'd have to search far and wide to include every title out there, for example Shadowbane had a lot of races, don't think RFO had a whole lot.

    Might have to take the top 10 MMO's of 2002 (how do we determine top, by subs I assume) and the top 10 MMO's of 2012 and compare the number of races they have.

    I'll bet the number is smaller in 2012.

     

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  • DewmDewm Soldotna, AKPosts: 1,341Member

     

    I like having a large amount of races... BUT at the same time they need stats that are unique to the race... and I don't mean in wow, where you get a skill that becomes void in a few levels..

     

    I mean real stats..

     

    Like in FFXI certain races just COULD NOT place a white mage (healer)..I mean they could play it...but not be half as effective at it, as some races..

    ...But it seems now days people just complain if you have something like that. 

    "waaaa i want to play a pink fairy elf but also play tank, waaaa unfair" <--(yes thats what the average mmo'er sounds like to me)

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  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    I want to see more playable races which are actually different beside the looks. So if you have a giant wolf like race then it should be far stronger and far more fit to be a plate wearing, massive 2H sword wielder than a tiny gnome. Other races should be far better suited for mage type of professions etc.

    Lately it seems that race has, to make it easier for devs to balance, just been different in the ways the models look.

  • VikingGamerVikingGamer Nowhere, TXPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon
    I would like to see more races AND I would like to unique racial starting areas become the norm again. So much better for replayablity. This was one of the best things Vanguard originally. GW2 could build up to this if they wanted to. And as for just shear possibilities, nobody has it has as much potential as SWTOR, but what do they plan to give us??? Cathar...  sigh.

    All die, so die well.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    What do expect in a racial package?  unique art/animations?  unique (but balanced) abilities?  story?  lore?  NPC presence?

    Do you expect every race to have an opinion (in lore) about every other race?

  • VikingGamerVikingGamer Nowhere, TXPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by maplestone

    What do expect in a racial package?  unique art/animations?  unique (but balanced) abilities?  story?  lore?  NPC presence?

    Do you expect every race to have an opinion (in lore) about every other race?

    Not just in lore but also in faction mechanics. That was another great thing about Vanguard. Such a good game, such a sad story.

    All die, so die well.

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