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Originally posted by Zezda Originally posted by AlBQuirky I still have my alts I have fun with, but with Orr to look forward to, the air has kind of gone out of those balloons, too. I tried. I really did try.
It's Orr.. it's not suppose to be a park where you can wonder around as you please.
Then it should be difficult and interesting as opposed to the current easy but annoying.
Start at A running along, pull, pull, pull, stun, clear/signet, run, pull, pull, stun, pull, clear/signet, run, pull, pull, get to B. You don't die, unless you count dying of boredom ofc, you just get tired of it.
They could just have normally paced out mobs with a chance of a random mega zerg of them from which it is actually hard to escape, kind of a mini DE. Just sticking 1 mob per square inch of the map is merely annoying.
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Originally posted by BadSpockI like the idea of having to run with other people to survive [live long] and prosper in Orr.
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Stayonboard Originally posted by just1opinion This thread did nothing for me but discourage me. It certainly didn't make me want to hit 80 at all. I hate this stupid website. It ruins for me almost every game I play by being so negative at every turn. I want to not care what other people think of games, but it never fails....I read over here and then immediately feel like quitting. Thanks for another uplifting thread.
Take EVERYTHING said here with a huge grain of salt.... seriously - it's toxic and lots of whine (generally) but don't let it ruin your enjoyment.
Orr isn't that bad - people whine and exaggerate. Again, it's dull, lots of mobs, not that pretty.... but it's not that hard to get around and I died the first time since I been level 80 yesterday because I kept pulling more and more mobs accidently. As long as you're careful you'll be fine, to be honest I was pushing my luck and biting off more than I could chew.
As an Engineer, Im used to doing that and surviving
Thank you for that. And thank you to the OP for his response as well. Sorry I just get emotional when a game I'm playing and enjoying appears to have an abyssmal sounding future for me. lol I know, I know....it's dumb.
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Originally posted by just1opinion This thread did nothing for me but discourage me. It certainly didn't make me want to hit 80 at all. I hate this stupid website. It ruins for me almost every game I play by being so negative at every turn. I want to not care what other people think of games, but it never fails....I read over here and then immediately feel like quitting. Thanks for another uplifting thread.
If other random's people opinion on forum can do that to you - then maybe it is time to stop reading or develop thicker skin?
It will be much easier than to change internet.
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Making respawns quick and sprinkling every corner of the zone with un dead is cheap and lazy way to make a zone difficult.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky Originally posted by BadSpock I like the idea of having to run with other people to survive [live long] and prosper in Orr.
haha nice find.
But yeah, annoyance does not = difficulty.
If Orr is more annoying than difficult, there is a problem.
Originally posted by Torgrim I don't have a lvl 80 toon yet, my highest one is 63 but what I've read here and on guild chat, I'm not sure If I even want to go to Orr
Orr is what it is supposed to be, an unpleasant war zone.
At 80 you can also relax by going to Frostgorge Sound, which is an amazing area.
If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.
I think The Cursed Shore needs a tweak too (haven't been there since the last patch so maybe they've started) although the mob density and difficulty there shouldn't come as a complete surprise since as soon as you cross the water in the Straights of Devastation and then move on to Malchor's Leap, there is a steady progression in mob density and difficulty. You do get an excellent feel of approaching the "front lines."
Cursed Shore follows the progression but trash mobs are so dense that it's almost impossible to fight one at a time. You're always dealing with 2-5. This is where a good mix of AOE, condition removal and mitigation shines. My Guardian can still solo there but I do have to be much more careful.
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Originally posted by BadSpockOriginally posted by AlBQuirkyOriginally posted by BadSpockI like the idea of having to run with other people to survive [live long] and prosper in Orr.
It's not like the fights are different. There really is not much in the name of strategy to be used. Yes, I can fight 3-5 minions and be fine. It is just doing so at every turn that gets annoying. Even the singles that attack me are not a challenge. They are an annoyance.
Originally posted by The_Korrigan Originally posted by Torgrim I don't have a lvl 80 toon yet, my highest one is 63 but what I've read here and on guild chat, I'm not sure If I even want to go to Orr
Forums can do that. Take my experience with D3. I never visited the official D3 forums. I just played the game my own way (didn't buy items on the AH) and really, really enjoyed the game. You would think I was playing a completely different game because there is so much hate thrown at the game.
Avoiding the negative forums allowed me to enjoy my game and not focus on every negative nit-picking comment posted by people who do nothing but complain.
this is why you have us dedicating fanboys fighting on your behalf. every day we tirelessly fight trolls and dispel false information so that the haters that are not even part of our community dont end up pulling our community to the ground.
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I quit hunting in orr due to getting diminishing returns because everything there is a risen and you cant complete daily achievements on risen alone either..
This area is suppose to be tough and gritty and we are suppose to be outnumbered afterall its the bad guys backyard and i love that feeling but not all the time...
Anet really needs to add more varied content similar to soundforge only just for level 80s to make this game more fun over the longhaul..
Originally posted by gessekai332 Originally posted by just1opinion This thread did nothing for me but discourage me. It certainly didn't make me want to hit 80 at all. I hate this stupid website. It ruins for me almost every game I play by being so negative at every turn. I want to not care what other people think of games, but it never fails....I read over here and then immediately feel like quitting. Thanks for another uplifting thread.
It sounds more like you are just going around blindly white knighting Arena Net, because the OP did not contain false information, simply an opinion based on observations. Observations that were confirmed by other posters in this very thread.
If you like a cluttered trash zone, thats your opinion. Some of us do not, which opens the doors for discussion, which fortunately shuts down others attempts (like your posts) to censor valid information.
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Originally posted by BadSpock Originally posted by AlBQuirky Originally posted by BadSpock I like the idea of having to run with other people to survive [live long] and prosper in Orr.
Annoyance is subjective (well I suppose difficulty is as well really), but for me it is just tedious/annoying and not difficult in the slightest. Having mobs crammed in like sardines does not make it feel like a warzone.
The fact of the matter is you can quite easily move about without being at any risk of dying at all. But you are at constant risk of pull, get up and walk, pull, get up and walk, pull, get up and walk.
If people are being honest, pretty much anyone you see who is actually going somewhere and not farming, simply blasts past all the mobs. They get pulled/stuned and then just hit a debuff/buff, ignore all the mobs and charge on through. The sea of mobs adds nothing but an annoyance factor.
Well that's not strictly true, you can drag agro on top of people who are afk or farming nodes or stood too close to camp entrances. Funnily enough, as people just charge through everything, quite often you will see people dumping agro on people quite unintentionally.
Perhaps the most ironic thing about this thread, is that if the OP ever got his wish about Orr, we'd likely see it followed up with a complaint about how easy to games' PvE is. You can't have it both ways.
While there are parts of Orr that can get annoying (especially the ones with a lot of CC and jumping involved), it's all manageable if you know what you're doing. There are quite a few skills every class has to handle situations like that, and even ones that lack stability (necromancer) have other ways of running around freely with minimal trouble.
It all comes down to knowing your skills, and using the right skills, traits, and weapons for what you wanna do. If you just wanna run around & gather, or get to someplace quickly without fighting, then equip the skills for it. Bring things like swiftness, stability, and teleport abilities to travel ground quickly. If you want to do Mass AoE damage, then spec for that instead. Every class can fulfill all these basic roles, and you don't need to spec into them for them to be effective.
I agree to a large extent. In such a superb game, when one region bucks the trend and exhibits horrible design decisions for mob placement, density and difficulty, it really, really shows. I love the look of the environments in this region, so the environmental artists did their job well. Many of the DEs I've participated in have been fun, if they aren't suffering from the same over density flaw as the zone. However, the mob placement and density feel like a throw back to the worst of the old paradigm MMO grinders and is so comopletely incongruent to the rest of the game it's disheartening.
Other games have successfully pulled off "masses of enemies" with out it being a massive headache for players. They've done so by designing enemies that are underpowered individually, but always attack as a group to provide a reasonable challenge. This gives the player the experience of fighting off waves and waves of enemies, with out it being a chore or annoyance, but rather providing an opportunity for the player to feel that their character has become pretty powerful.
In Orr, you face lots and lots of enemies, but they are all full power, if not souped up due to massive amounts of crowd control, and the effect of massive numbers is provided mostly by mobs standing around in a mine field pattern, looking completely stupid in a game that usually provides much better context for it's mobs in their placement and activities.
I haven't gotten to the final steps of the personal story, but it saddens me that this seems to carry over there as well.
The Orr region needs a massive overhaul. Some mobs actually have proper placement and context within the environment. A design sweep should identify those and flag them as acceptable, then every other mob in the region should be deleted and placement begun afresh by the developers that have shown the most skill at natural, organic mob placement. I'd love to have roving mobs of undead that provide a proper level of difficulty for a swarm, to provide the feeling that Orr is literally swarming with undead. The rest of the mobs should be placed with the same care given to the rest of the game, not the "shot gun" pattern of mob dispersal that's the hallmark of poor game design.
This will take time, but a mea culpa now, with an outline of changes to come, would go a long way with the community and greatly benefit the game.
To be fair, some areas with in the region of Orr zones are fine, but by the time you reach the third zone, things have reached a critical mass of horrible. It's not like the entire region needs to be nuked and redesigned from scratch. However, it's clear that in the rush to launch the game, someone fell back completely into the old design paradigms that the game otherwise does such a great job of squashing. I've seen very, very few comments anywhere in support of the current zone design, it's close to universally panned in the community with even a marked absense of the typical L2P blowback such criticism usually attracts in other games.
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Originally posted by halflife25 Originally posted by Zezda Originally posted by AlBQuirky I still have my alts I have fun with, but with Orr to look forward to, the air has kind of gone out of those balloons, too. I tried. I really did try.
Respawns and the static mobs are not what makes Orr difficult. They are however what make you think twice about running around in random directions. It's suppose to be an uphill battle. It's suppose to be difficult to move around for the Pact. It's suppose to be the main base of operations for an entire Undead army! The best part is 3/4 of Orr still isn't even in the game yet..
The events in Orr are crazy difficult to complete on your own for the most part. Try defend Shelter's Gate on your own when 4 Veteran casters come at the gate after 5 waves of 15+ undead wiped out the NPC's helping you. Try take the gates of Arah or the Temple of Melandru/Grenth with only 5 people.. it just isn't going to happen. It demands some sort of coordination. You can to a lesser degree zerg your way through parts of the zone but when it comes to the Temples and Arah I have seen the events fail horribly on numerous occassions.
Originally posted by Zezda Originally posted by halflife25 Originally posted by Zezda Originally posted by AlBQuirky
The Temples and Gates of Arah have nothing to do with the complaint about general mob placement. With regards to those though, ofc it is going to be more difficult to try and solo something that is meant to be done by a larger group. But if content is only difficult when you are trying to complete it with fewer people than originally envisioned, then something is clearly wrong.
General mob placement is the issue for some and it certainly doesn't make you "think twice". It just makes you press speed/debuff ability every so often, whilst rolling your eyes about the six pulls in succession that have never actually threatened to kill you, just get on your tit ends.
It isn't difficult to move around at all unless someone trains mobs onto you, or you fall asleep at the keyboard, so I am amazed anyone is dying in there outside of trying to solo champs or DE vets. Travelling through it though is quite often highly annoying.
Originally posted by bunnyhopperIt isn't difficult to move around at all unless someone trains mobs onto you, or you fall asleep at the keyboard, so I am amazed anyone is dying in there outside of trying to solo champs or DE vets. Travelling through it though is quite often highly annoying
I must say, those teeth-grinding last 10 levels from 70-80 are really, really tiresome. Fight, fight, fight... for every damn centimeter. Yes, there are other zones than Orr, but overall, where is the fun any beauty from the early levels? It's all serious, war-ish and deadly.
Yes, I too feel worn out and tired of the fighting and the confounded difficulty of the last 10-15 levels.
Why are they always catering some hardcore nuts?
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