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Is it too early to call GW2 a flop?

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  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    I thought I had seen everthing on MMORPG.com - I was wrong.

    Thank you OP, once again someone on this site has helped to further erode whatever tiny, miniscule faith in humanity and hope I had left.

     

  • PaRoXiTiCPaRoXiTiC Denison, TXPosts: 576Member Uncommon

    Great...

    Another "Man this game is awesome, and it's killing the population in MY game so we gotta do something" thread.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    I thought I had seen everthing on MMORPG.com - I was wrong.

    Thank you OP, once again someone on this site has helped to further erode whatever tiny, miniscule faith in humanity and hope I had left.

     

    Lol +1.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • dzoni87dzoni87 BelgradePosts: 541Member
    Originally posted by Razperil

    I've noticed that these threads pop up constantly when a "certain" MMO has let people down or they feel the need to draw attention away from it. We all know which MMO I am talking about..

    As far as topic, GW2 is hardly a flop. Just because it doesn't cater to you wow kids does not make it a flop. Your whole community has way too much growing up to do. Why don't you do the rest of us a favor, go back to your panda land and learn that kung fu. 

    All in all, we play games we like. Try to be respectful of other game's successes wether you like it or not. :)

    The text in green (lime). Couldnt agree more..

    Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
    Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

  • BioBreakBioBreak Columbus, OHPosts: 48Member

    I guage it like this.

    My friends and I were sick of TOR on week 2.

    I have not been able to stop playing GW2, my friends and I are playing it daily.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by DKLond

    I certainly don't think it's a flop. They sold a lot of copies - and they've managed to convince a LOT of players that limited progression and having most things handed to you on a silver platter is the way to go. It looks like a major victory for the casual fans - made by what seems like casual fans themselves.

    Considering the genre - and the history of RPGs - I think that's a pretty impressive feat, for any developer.

    As for "changing the MMO scene" - I sincerely doubt it. To me, they completely failed to provide a meaningful and perpetually interesting long-term home for MMO players. So, that particular scene isn't changing.

     

    You do realize firstly Anet said in their Manefesto: they are making an MMO for players who love MMO's and if you hate MMO's then you'll really want to check out GW2. On top of this you have what I call the oblivious 90%.  That is 90% of the playerbase are not into progression, uberdom, leetness or anything remotely hardcore.  MMO's ahve been birthed by and large on the back of the casual player which also happens to be the most loyal customers.

     

    For the gamer and casual player GW2 is perfect because it is the first MMO that offers incentives for playing, rewards for doing, and fun for everyone (minus the hardcore progression types who insist that beating their heads against raid encounters is somehow fun).

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • AeanderAeander Walker, LAPosts: 522Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    I predict that GW2 (and GW1) will shut down by the end of 2013, and NC Soft will fire AreaNet - going by their attitude with Pargaon Studios/City Of Heroes - Make it F2P then shut it down after about a year

    Come on back down to what we here on earth call reality.

     

     

     

     

    Classic man classic!

     

    Pretty much. You're downright insane if you honestly believe Guild Wars 2 will shut down by the end of 2013.

     

    Arenanet is still keeping Guild Wars 1 up, for crying out loud. Do you honestly think that game is making them much money any more - or that it has made them much money for the past several years?

     

    There is no such thing as an Arenanet fanboy - only someone who has actually observed them, their philosophies, their business practices, and their community interaction. For five years, they've kept in constant communication with the community on the state of their upcoming game, and they continue to do so now. They run a generous business model and designed what is - by any definition - a great core game. Does this game have rough edges? YES. But the fact of the matter is that it has been one month. One measly month in which they have been frequently patching bugged quests and areas - a job that will no doubt continue for the next several months.

     

    Name a company that has Anet's generous levels of communication and service on such a business model.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Shubawkss
    A wow clone, are you fucking serious? lol.

    GW2 is as rooted in the EQ/WoW model as Rift and SWTOR.

    Where BW and Trion took the model and asked what is it that's missing? And tried to make a better version of it, GW2 took the model and said What's wrong with it and they removed what people didn't like.

    Fact is, as much as Rift is an attempt on what to improve, GW2 is an attempt on What not to do (with WoW), But the foundation for the model is still WoW.

    It might be more appropriate to call it an Anti-Clone, but that's not necessarily a good thing either.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by DKLond

    I certainly don't think it's a flop. They sold a lot of copies - and they've managed to convince a LOT of players that limited progression and having most things handed to you on a silver platter is the way to go. It looks like a major victory for the casual fans - made by what seems like casual fans themselves.

    Considering the genre - and the history of RPGs - I think that's a pretty impressive feat, for any developer.

    As for "changing the MMO scene" - I sincerely doubt it. To me, they completely failed to provide a meaningful and perpetually interesting long-term home for MMO players. So, that particular scene isn't changing.

     

    You do realize firstly Anet said in their Manefesto: they are making an MMO for players who love MMO's and if you hate MMO's then you'll really want to check out GW2. On top of this you have what I call the oblivious 90%.  That is 90% of the playerbase are not into progression, uberdom, leetness or anything remotely hardcore.  MMO's ahve been birthed by and large on the back of the casual player which also happens to be the most loyal customers.

     

    For the gamer and casual player GW2 is perfect because it is the first MMO that offers incentives for playing, rewards for doing, and fun for everyone (minus the hardcore progression types who insist that beating their heads against raid encounters is somehow fun).

    Change MMO for ThemePark MMO and I will agree with you. The fact is that this game has very few virtual world and sandbox elements so I doubt very much that someone who loves those parts of MMOs will love GW 2. 

  • YakamomotoYakamomoto Osaka, ARPosts: 363Member

    In fact the GW2 businessmodel does not require player retention.

    With GW2 you all bought a 60$ lifetime subscription for a F2P game with cash shop, at that price range no one expects you to stay forever ( or even abandon other MMOs)

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,262Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by korent1991

    tor was loosing subs all the time... We can see how good it kept subs numbers by the fact that they're doing F2P conversion.

    GW2 is a success just by sales numbers so far, since it's the only thing they can see because of their model. GW2 IS NOT F2P.

    Just by the numbers of players still in game and how the queue for W3 is full all the time on my server I'd say it's doing pretty damn good...

    By the way, just because someone is playing a game you don't like they're not instantly "fanboi", as you ignorantly proclaim us.

    No swtor's time played held through the first 30 days, after the free time was gone the slide began. GW2 play time has been sliding since the first weekend at a much steeper rate than swtor. Remember swtor sold 2.7 million in the first couple months.

     

    As far as sales numbers some analyst predicted 3.12 million by years end. With forbes going as far to say they expect GW2 to take 25% of WoW base. Niether of these projection look like they will be meet from my perspective. GW2 needs 1.2 million more people to buy in the next 2 months, and it looks like WoW just might gain 10-15%. 

     

    What I haven't been able to find is NCsoft's internal projections. All I found iis they expect BS and GW2 to make up for the loss in profits reported in the 2nd qt.

  • GozzarGozzar yeahPosts: 383Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Theocritus

         IT seems like every MMO follows the same pattern on this site:

    1. in beta every MMO is the greatest thing ever

    2. at release the games are promising but the bad release is hurting it

    3. one month after release the game is crap and is a failure despite what the sales numbers say

    4. players start looking for the next great MMO that is over 2 years away from release and proclaim how great it is though they have never played it

    haha word. and gw2 aint a flop but its maybe not what we need ^_^ I play it anyway, im so bored.

    image

    image

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,262Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Razperil

    I've noticed that these threads pop up constantly when a "certain" MMO has let people down or they feel the need to draw attention away from it. We all know which MMO I am talking about..

    As far as topic, GW2 is hardly a flop. Just because it doesn't cater to you wow kids does not make it a flop. Your whole community has way too much growing up to do. Why don't you do the rest of us a favor, go back to your panda land and learn that kung fu. 

    All in all, we play games we like. Try to be respectful of other game's successes wether you like it or not. :)

    looking at website stats, GW2 and WoW age demographics look a lot alike... Plenty of "kids" in both.

    http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/guildwars2.com

    http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/battle.net#

    http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/wowhead.com WoWhead listed because battle.net includes other games. 

     

    oh and it's funny how the traffic numbers mirror xfire. 

  • nsignificnsignific ljPosts: 212Member
    Originally posted by Gozzar
    Originally posted by Theocritus

         IT seems like every MMO follows the same pattern on this site:

    1. in beta every MMO is the greatest thing ever

    2. at release the games are promising but the bad release is hurting it

    3. one month after release the game is crap and is a failure despite what the sales numbers say

    4. players start looking for the next great MMO that is over 2 years away from release and proclaim how great it is though they have never played it

    haha word. and gw2 aint a flop but its maybe not what we need ^_^ I play it anyway, im so bored.

    I have a friend that did this with Warhammer, AOC, Rift, SWTOR, TSW and now GW2. He mocked us everytime for playing an outdated game instead of this new, surefire WOW killer. It was funny the first 3 times, now it's just sad.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by bcbully

    No swtor's time played held through the first 30 days, after the free time was gone the slide began. GW2 play time has been sliding since the first weekend at a much steeper rate than swtor. Remember swtor sold 2.7 million in the first couple months.

    GW2 is barely over a month old

     

    SWTOR sold 2 million after 5 weeks and 2.4 million units after 4 months

    http://www.joystiq.com/2012/02/01/swtor-sales-feb-2012/

    http://m.ign.com/articles/2012/05/07/swtor-subscriber-base-shrinks

     

    ncsoft financial quarter ended Sept 30 - will see report in early November

    http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,262Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by bcbully

    No swtor's time played held through the first 30 days, after the free time was gone the slide began. GW2 play time has been sliding since the first weekend at a much steeper rate than swtor. Remember swtor sold 2.7 million in the first couple months.

    GW2 is barely over a month old

     

    SWTOR sold 2 million after 5 weeks

     

    http://m.ign.com/articles/2012/05/07/swtor-subscriber-base-shrinks

    and 2.4 million units after 4 months

    http://www.joystiq.com/2012/02/01/swtor-sales-feb-2012/

     

    ncsoft financial quarter ended Sept 30 - will see financial quarter report in early November

    http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx

    This is why I like you ;) In a purley plutonic way ofcourse...

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Gw2 isn't trying to be wow. Gw2 is for people that don't like wow.

    Clue - no raids, minimal gear progression, well thought out pvp.

    Yes its a themepark, but the philosophy behind it owes more to dark age of camelot and city of heroes than it does everquest and wow.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon

    To OP, Yes, it's too early to tell.
    As far as everyone else claiming flop or success, it's still too early to tell.
    If you call it one or the other laready, how do you know? Where did you get your info? How do you know what ANET and/or NCSoft determined they needed from this game and how do you know it met it or not? Did this game meet the expectations set for it or are people assuming that because it sold 2M it's great? We already saw what can happen to a game that sells that much.

    At the same time, to call it a flop? Way to early. The model offers ANET and NCSoft a lot of cushion to play with before calling it a flop. And that's assuming they aren't calling it a success as is.

    I don't think it met the lofty goal set by Mike O'Brien in his Forbes article, but that doesn't make it a failure.

    They still have plenty of time to play with items in the cash shop And again, that's even assuming they need to.

    No matter what people say, One way or another, the only ones who know if GW2 is a success or failure are NCSoft and ArenaNet.

    Everything else is speculation.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,262Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    To OP, Yes, it's too early to tell.
    As far as everyone else claiming flop or success, it's still too early to tell.
    If you call it one or the other laready, how do you know? Where did you get your info? How do you know what ANET and/or NCSoft determined they needed from this game and how do you know it met it or not? Did this game meet the expectations set for it or are people assuming that because it sold 2M it's great? We already saw what can happen to a game that sells that much.

    At the same time, to call it a flop? Way to early. The model offers ANET and NCSoft a lot of cushion to play with before calling it a flop. And that's assuming they aren't calling it a success as is.

    I don't think it met the lofty goal set by Mike O'Brien in his Forbes article, but that doesn't make it a failure.

    They still have plenty of time to play with items in the cash shop And again, that's even assuming they need to.

    No matter what people say, One way or another, the only ones who know if GW2 is a success or failure are NCSoft and ArenaNet.

    Everything else is speculation.

    Agree 99% I'll add the 1% if you can tell what's more important, analyst projections or internal projections? 

     

  • ChrisReitzChrisReitz Newport, KYPosts: 115Member
    Almost every server is full on guild wars 2 just cause you dont like the game doesnt mean its a flop. I can tell you this QQ thread is a flop.
  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by ZigZags
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by ForumPvP

    What was that company after,what is casual game? product for people who dont play much?

    now if they dont play much,is that a flop or not?

     

    Mike O'Brian aims to make Guild Wars 2 the number one MMORPG on the market; i.e. beat WoW.

     

    Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/04/23/arenanet-founder-mike-obrien-will-be-satisfied-when-guild-wars-2-is-the-most-successful-mmo-period/

    NCSoft may have other goals, and so may other key people within Arenanet, so I suppose it depends on who you ask.

    Well Mike can keep day dreaming. He painted a bull's eye on his back with a comment like that. GW2 beat WOW...lol. Ok what ever Mike.

    LOL no kidding. Mike, tell that to the 2,000 ahead of me in the que to log into MoP.

     Log in queues. How ten years ago.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    In fact the GW2 businessmodel does not require player retention.

    With GW2 you all bought a 60$ lifetime subscription for a F2P game with cash shop, at that price range no one expects you to stay forever ( or even abandon other MMOs)

    What a lod of crap. GW2 is designed in way that you need decent population to get things done. Whether it is DE's or W vW. If population retention is low, they will have to merge servers and we all know how players look at the news of server mergers. That is the first sign that MMO isn't doing well.

    Moreover, Anet wants players to spend money on cash shop and they have said it time and again that they are going to expand on in game shop in future. And if players are unhappy that would mean less interest in future expansions.

    Player retention is as important to GW2 as it is to any P2P MMO. 

     

     

  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    In fact the GW2 businessmodel does not require player retention.

    With GW2 you all bought a 60$ lifetime subscription for a F2P game with cash shop, at that price range no one expects you to stay forever ( or even abandon other MMOs)

    What a lod of crap. GW2 is designed in way that you need decent population to get things done. Whether it is DE's or W vW. If population retention is low, they will have to merge servers and we all know how players look at the news of server mergers. That is the first sign that MMO isn't doing well.

    Moreover, Anet wants players to spend money on cash shop and they have said it time and again that they are going to expand on in game shop in future. And if players are unhappy that would mean less interest in future expansions.

    Player retention is as important to GW2 as it is to any P2P MMO. 

    As of this time there is no population issue. The servers remain packed. Also DEs scale and if you only have a few people around then it will have the correct difficutly for that number of people. Many DEs are still being tweaked.

    WvW is probably one of the most popular features right now. I play on Tarnished Coast. I had a 20 minute queue to get into a boarderland last night. After I was in the boarderland I queued for eternal and it was three hours before I got to enter. I'm just thankful its split into multiple ones like that. 

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    I don't know if it a flop or not.  What I do know is I see some of the same folks who trash talked other games and sung the priases of gw2, are now attacking gw2.  That in itself I find very funny.  I think some of these folks could win the lotery and complain that they spent it all and it was not enough.

     

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    I would not call it anything near a flop. The game is still going strong and it has a pretty good pvp community, with a more robust spvp system this game is not going anywere anytime soon.

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This discussion has been closed.