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Is it too early to call GW2 a flop?

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  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by Yamota

     GW 2 is BTP+CashShop which means they need people playing the game to get money from the Cash Shop. So even though I dont expect it to keep alot of people playing the game, and probably ArenaNet does not either, it is not entirely Buy To Play.

    new people buying the game helps anet too

    and there will be paid expansions - like almost all mmos have

     

    if GW2 continually sells new copies i dont see revenue issues

    the cash shop helps -- new players buying the game helps more

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Yamota

     GW 2 is BTP+CashShop which means they need people playing the game to get money from the Cash Shop. So even though I dont expect it to keep alot of people playing the game, and probably ArenaNet does not either, it is not entirely Buy To Play.

    new people buying the game helps anet too

    and there will be paid expansions - like almost all mmos have

     

    if GW2 continually sells new copies i dont see revenue issues

    the cash shop helps -- new players buying the game helps more

    Yes but all games, including MMORPGs, has a declining number of people buying the game as time goes along. And just after six months the number of people buying the game has gone so low that the revenue stream is simply too small to keep up with any major development tasks. The main source of income, at that time, would be the cash shop which is why we will see more and more stuff being added to it.

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by mxbx
    And let's not forget: it failed as F2P right out of the gate, where ToR and many other games managed to run P2P for at least a few months.

    God I feel like a sucker. I pre-ordered GW2 and paid $US60.00 for it. If I'd known it was going to launch as F2P I could have kept that sixty bucks and just played for free.

  • HexipoxHexipox CopenhagenPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by Theocritus

         IT seems like every MMO follows the same pattern on this site:

    1. in beta every MMO is the greatest thing ever

    2. at release the games are promising but the bad release is hurting it

    3. one month after release the game is crap and is a failure despite what the sales numbers say

    4. players start looking for the next great MMO that is over 2 years away from release and proclaim how great it is though they have never played it

    Quote for truth.

     

    This site is such a bad info if you want anything viable. MMORPG was wonce a great site, now its a company making money and community is so horried I find myself stupid reading any posts.

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,228Member Uncommon

    I don't think GW2 is a flop, it's a great game (I know I haven't given it the highest scores personally - but that's just me) - it did well on box sales and while it does have a cash shop I'm not sure why anyone would think there's a threat to future development.

    Single player games live on box sales and then DLC/Expansion content sales. GW2 should be treated the same despite having an online persistent world. Yes, there's the cost of servers, but ANET did it just fine with GW1, so I can't imagine that server technology has skyrocketed in price since then (if anything the fact that they already have the infrastructure means there's lower cost of operations).

    Then there's people like me who fully intend to play it on an off. I bought CE and 3 character slots, I'm sure many have done similarly. I don't think they're hurting.  Will it have massive retention? Eh, I'm leaning towards no, but we'll see.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by Nadia

    if GW2 continually sells new copies i dont see revenue issues

    the cash shop helps -- new players buying the game helps more

    Yes but all games, including MMORPGs, has a declining number of people buying the game as time goes along. And just after six months the number of people buying the game has gone so low that the revenue stream is simply too small to keep up with any major development tasks. The main source of income, at that time, would be the cash shop which is why we will see more and more stuff being added to it.

    it took RIFT four months to sell 1 million -- Guild Wars is barely over a month old

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/07/rift-approaching-the-one-million-sell-through-mark/

  • spankybusspankybus Orlando, FLPosts: 1,154Member Uncommon

    If they have sold enough copies to recoup development costs, then anything beyond that is profit and successful.

    however, if the game ends up pissing off most of the people who purchased it, it will hurt ANet in the long run. So far, I do not see this to be the case.

     

    time will tell

    Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
    www.spankybus.com
    -3d Artist & Compositor
    -Writer
    -Professional Amature

  • Smitt3kSmitt3k Pea Ridge, ARPosts: 21Member

    This was taken at 7am CST on Oct 1st. Sure looks like it is in BIG trouble....

  • IPolygonIPolygon ViennaPosts: 707Member Uncommon
    This and GW1 was never a flop too, even though it had a much smaller audience. Just because it is nowhere near 10 millions of WoW doesn't mean it is a flop.
  • Smitt3kSmitt3k Pea Ridge, ARPosts: 21Member
    Originally posted by IPolygon
    This and GW1 was never a flop too, even though it had a much smaller audience. Just because it is nowhere near 10 millions of WoW doesn't mean it is a flop.

     

     

    GW1 has sold over 7 million copies. Making it a rather large success and the reason Anet has a blank check for GW2.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    I predict that GW2 (and GW1) will shut down by the end of 2013, and NC Soft will fire AreaNet - going by their attitude with Pargaon Studios/City Of Heroes - Make it F2P then shut it down after about a year
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,266Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by NBlitz
    People posting about populations...I thought I read somewhere that what is shown on the World Selection screen is how full the server is, accounts-wise.
    Which would explain why people are seeing servers being shown "full" 24/7.

    I read that too. That their server statuses are based on the accounts bound to that sever, not actual real time load.

     

    edit - What I read wasn't am official statement, but it would be interesting to see the source of this.

  • AeanderAeander Walker, LAPosts: 522Member Uncommon

    Much too early. All MMOs have launch issues and neither Guild Wars 2 nor TOR are alone in the early phase activity dives.

     

    This is the stage of the game in which bug fixes and major issues are the focus. All new MMOs need to pass this hurdle.

     

    Guild Wars 2 has something that TOR did not - competent developers. And yes - I just called Bioware incompetent. They haven't made a good game since their buy-out by EA nor did they have any experience with massive online gaming.

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    Originally posted by mxbx
    The fact is, this is just another in a long line of flops that's failing to live up to the hype.  Does anyone seriously deny that ArenaNet is spiking their sales numbers?  And let's not forget: it failed as F2P right out of the gate, where ToR and many other games managed to run P2P for at least a few months.  How can the ArenaNet fanbois call ToR a failure and GW2 a success when ToR managed to hold subs for months? 

    tor was loosing subs all the time... We can see how good it kept subs numbers by the fact that they're doing F2P conversion.

    GW2 is a success just by sales numbers so far, since it's the only thing they can see because of their model. GW2 IS NOT F2P.

    Just by the numbers of players still in game and how the queue for W3 is full all the time on my server I'd say it's doing pretty damn good...

    By the way, just because someone is playing a game you don't like they're not instantly "fanboi", as you ignorantly proclaim us.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by NBlitz
    People posting about populations...I thought I read somewhere that what is shown on the World Selection screen is how full the server is, accounts-wise.
    Which would explain why people are seeing servers being shown "full" 24/7.

    I read that too. That their server statuses are based on the accounts bound to that sever, not actual real time load.

     

    edit - What I read wasn't am official statement, but it would be interesting to see the source of this.

    The population changes troughout the day, I checked, on numerous occasions in GW2. So a server which shows "FULL" in the evening and is locked for any new creations of characters can be "MEDIUM" (just an example) in the morning and you can select that server and make a character then. 

    So it's based on accounts, but currently active accounts in that moment which has a person playing on it at that given moment.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • ThillianThillian BratislavaPosts: 3,143Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aeander

    Much too early. All MMOs have launch issues and neither Guild Wars 2 nor TOR are alone in the early phase activity dives.

     

    This is the stage of the game in which bug fixes and major issues are the focus. All new MMOs need to pass this hurdle.

     

    Guild Wars 2 has something that TOR did not - competent developers. And yes - I just called Bioware incompetent. They haven't made a good game since their buy-out by EA nor did they have any experience with massive online gaming.

    They were incompetent ever since they left Interplay and cooperation with Black Isle.

    I don't see how is Anet any more competent. GW2 has so far the most rapid downfall of player's activity surpassing SWTOR, AoC and even WAR. They overhyped their combat system (worse than TERA), dynamic event system (ripped off Tabula Rasa Dynamic Battlefields), there is no meaningful progression, terrible dungeon system, linear instanced world, and Atrocitous Camera System and Mouse Smoothing. This game was born to be a long-term failure. Thus, no subscription.

     

    REALITY CHECK

  • ZzadZzad Palma de MallorcaPosts: 1,332Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by Zzad
    Originally posted by mxbx
    The fact is, this is just another in a long line of flops that's failing to live up to the hype.  Does anyone seriously deny that ArenaNet is spiking their sales numbers?  And let's not forget: it failed as F2P right out of the gate, where ToR and many other games managed to run P2P for at least a few months.  How can the ArenaNet fanbois call ToR a failure and GW2 a success when ToR managed to hold subs for months? 

    LOL....just LOL.....

    Guild Wars 2 has a BTP model since GW1...it´s not designed to hold subs whattsoever.... never pretended or wanted to.

    If GW2 is BTP (and not FTP as you said) it´s due to a promise made by ArenaNet to their fanbase to keep that bussiness model.

    get over it....

    .....and no...GW2 doesn´t  have Raids,nor trinity.....FFS......  image

    That is where you are wrong. GW 2 is BTP+CashShop which means they need people playing the game to get money from the Cash Shop. So even though I dont expect it to keep alot of people playing the game, and probably ArenaNet does not either, it is not entirely Buy To Play.

    You Buy the game & can experience  all content without using cash shop.

    In case you want to use the shop,you just can buy whatever using the gold you earned playing... so no real money needed...

    You just want to use the shop if you want to support the game ,which is totally optional.

    So totally disagree with you,  it´s BTP.

  • Entris38Entris38 Somewhere, OHPosts: 321Member Uncommon

    Just regarding the OP, GW2 is in no way a flop, selling a few million of its title speaks for itself. It wasn't my thing, got to 35ish with one toon and in the 20's with another before I realized that it just wasn't for me.

     

         Moving forward in this genre all games are going to have this ridiculous discussion being the true fans of a game will stay with it long term. I still believe MMO's are for a niche crowd, like I tend to be. Most MMO players now treat the MMO's like console games, rushing to the end ......sadly to find out that you cant "win" and they move on. Getting to top level and screaming, this game sucks, there is no content. Never noticing that they passed up all the content while rushing to the end, probably never reading or listening to any of the quests or lore.

         In pure GREED, companies cater to this "rush" crowd, to me, that has ruined every MMO that has come out recently and will in the future. I can understand businesses want to make a buck, but trying to be the next WoW will never happen probably. I feel bad for true fans of the genre,  there hasn't been a true mmo since vanguard(rushed and unfinished) or EQ2 before the complete overhaul because of greed of wanting WoW numbers. I loved EQ2 when it launched........

     

    I guess, for the most part, if people love these games and it makes companies billions, then good for them. I don't really want to knock anyone if they enjoy these types of game. I didn't evolve with the genre, I'm ok with that.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    People always bring up SWTOR as some kind of parallel to show that gw2 "flopped.". But the fact of the matter is that SWTOR didn't become an official "flop" until we saw the actual fallout at ea and BW, like when they laid all those people off and were forced to merge tons of servers.  Everything up to that point was just speculation.

    same with gw2.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by ZigZags
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by ForumPvP

    What was that company after,what is casual game? product for people who dont play much?

    now if they dont play much,is that a flop or not?

     

    Mike O'Brian aims to make Guild Wars 2 the number one MMORPG on the market; i.e. beat WoW.

     

    Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/04/23/arenanet-founder-mike-obrien-will-be-satisfied-when-guild-wars-2-is-the-most-successful-mmo-period/

    NCSoft may have other goals, and so may other key people within Arenanet, so I suppose it depends on who you ask.

    Well Mike can keep day dreaming. He painted a bull's eye on his back with a comment like that. GW2 beat WOW...lol. Ok what ever Mike.

    LOL no kidding. Mike, tell that to the 2,000 ahead of me in the que to log into MoP.

    More proof that WoW is too ancient for its own good and has quit innovating and copying things from others that are amazing such as GW2's overflow server.  Enjoy your stay in queue heaven and ill enjoy my time being able to play whenever I want.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • DjildjameshDjildjamesh maasdijkPosts: 406Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    I predict that GW2 (and GW1) will shut down by the end of 2013, and NC Soft will fire AreaNet - going by their attitude with Pargaon Studios/City Of Heroes - Make it F2P then shut it down after about a year

    right :)

    time will tell i guess ^^

  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Woodstock, GAPosts: 1,378Member Uncommon
    Opinions of the game are going to vary but I don't think the game is a flop. To anyone claiming numbers are bleeding I'd ask how they got this info because I would love to see less of a que on WvW, and zones to be a little less populated at times.  But if there has been a decline in population it probably has more to do with MOP ( I know I didn't buy it but others might have) releasing than the game being bad. If WoW is the case then I expect it's usual trend of 1-2 months of fun then boredom hits and those people may come back to GW2 since it will have a lot of the bugs fixed by then and it is B2P. GW2 may have lost some people due to it's game design and end game progression because people capped and felt there was nothing the game offered but I don't see that as a knock against the game because let's face it, no themepark will satisfy those type of players for very long, they devour content at a very high rate.

    RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    I predict that GW2 (and GW1) will shut down by the end of 2013, and NC Soft will fire AreaNet - going by their attitude with Pargaon Studios/City Of Heroes - Make it F2P then shut it down after about a year

    Come on back down to what we here on earth call reality.

     

     

     

     

    Classic man classic!

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • RazperilRazperil Lewiston, MEPosts: 289Member

    I've noticed that these threads pop up constantly when a "certain" MMO has let people down or they feel the need to draw attention away from it. We all know which MMO I am talking about..

    As far as topic, GW2 is hardly a flop. Just because it doesn't cater to you wow kids does not make it a flop. Your whole community has way too much growing up to do. Why don't you do the rest of us a favor, go back to your panda land and learn that kung fu. 

    All in all, we play games we like. Try to be respectful of other game's successes wether you like it or not. :)

  • dzoni87dzoni87 BelgradePosts: 541Member
    Originally posted by andypandyr
    My oh my .. when are these stupid threads going to stop .. " sigh "

    Theoretically speaking, never....

    Because, when next bigger title releases (read: TESO) all the haters will move onto that games' subforum and speculate about player numbers, subs numbers, "flopping" or "not-flopping". And circle goes on and on and on...

    All it takes is at least one bored Troll with account of 10 posts and voila... new topic of 100+ pages is born

    Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
    Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

This discussion has been closed.