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A query to the proponents of regional/local banking

joshuawnjoshuawn Conifer, COPosts: 9Member

As I haven't received any solid qualifications to my proposed problem with regional banking on the official Darkfall forums, even though the issue should be prevalent enough to take priority, I'd like to see your inputs:

X-Posts from http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=327955

1st post with primary concern:


Originally posted by joshuawn

i still don't see how regional banking can be properly implemented when bindstones are a prevalent part of gameplay; you can ride a mount naked to wherever you'd like to meet up, bind, ride back to the closest bank in your region, grab your shit, and bindstone back with reduced to no risk.

while i'd love to see regional banking, i'm just honestly perplexed as to how to get around insta-travel that we take for granted, like bindstones, without making traveling or banking unnecessarily tedious.

nerfing bindstone recall time would make everything overly time-consuming, so i know the solution can't be that easy.you guys must have thought and talked about this before, so i'd like to see your input.


2nd post detailing my thoughts about bindstones and regional banking:


Originally posted by joshuawn


Originally posted by heliumbox

It is definitely a problem but someone in another post mentioned that bindstone recall should be reduced to local bind stones or something like that.


while that accounts for trading between regions, an entire sub-continent is generally considered one region because of player city/chaos city interactions when it comes to regional banking: from what i've read in other threads, the community consensus is that player cities would provide local banks that will transfer to the region's chaos bank if the player city is lost.

if you're able to trade with other people in your respective region while being able to utilize instant transportation, then the possibility of encountering traveling merchants will decrease substantially.creating sub-regions within sub-continents and regions themselves could help remedy this, but traveling to pvp and pve would become overwhelmingly tedious.


Originally posted by heliumbox

I personally think you should only get back to your bindstone if you die or run back. It would make people stay around their holdings and defend them. Or truly need to plan to seige a distant holding.


what about when you're overweight with loot and/or you get stranded in a location because of circumstances stemming from pvp or even pve? i'd like to be able to travel as much as possible and be able to come across people as i travel, but removing bindstone recall punishes you for winning a fight, being encumbered and/or being in a hostile region while trying to survive. and with a new feature called limbo that supposedly allows you to recall back to your grave, the inability to bindstone recall WILL result in unnecessary damnation.

the removal of limbo would help quell my fears, but trying to survive near hostile hotspots would seem way too burdensome if you can't recall. you're essentially being punished for looking for pvp outside of where you live.

also, struggling to find fights around your region may not be present initially (or even for years depending on the game's popularity and player retention), but when the population does eventually dwindle, having to travel farther away from your homeland so you can find some action and not being able to recall because you're outside of your region (or because you just simply can't) will further reduce the population and stagnate pvp.

maybe i'm just jaded to darkfall's consistent lack of population and zerging faggotry, but there needs to be a better solution than simply nerfing or removing recall.


I apologize if this is too awkwardly worded without proper context, but I hope that I can receive some valuable feedback.

Comments

  • HotjazzHotjazz BalsfjordPosts: 742Member

    I`m skeptic to local banking and fear it will hurt the game. I know some got the fantasy of being able to loot some carebear caravans, but sadly that`s only a dream.

     

    If I wanted to sell 50000 lumber, I would never use a caravan. I would run naked across the continent and bind at the trading city. Then I would run naked back to my local bank and pick up the lumber. Then I would bindstone back to the trading city, make the transfer and run naked back to my hometown again. Then I would bind there, run naked back to the trading city to collect my money and bindstone back.

     

    I can`t really see why anyone would risk a large amount of their goods by hauling it accross the map. Local banking doesn`t make the game any more hardcore, it would just be a chore for the traders and players.

  • 7star7star SeoulPosts: 405Member

    A lot of the people that want local/regional banking don't like a lot of the insta-travel. 

     

    The issues you mentioned of whather travel and banking would be "tedious" is a relevant and at the heart of the debate. What is tedious to some is "immersive" or "tactical" to others. The game would change fundamentally depended on the options related to banking. 

     

  • joshuawnjoshuawn Conifer, COPosts: 9Member


    Originally posted by 7star
    A lot of the people that want local/regional banking don't like a lot of the insta-travel. 

     

    The issues you mentioned of whather travel and banking would be "tedious" is a relevant and at the heart of the debate. What is tedious to some is "immersive" or "tactical" to others. The game would change fundamentally depended on the options related to banking. 

     


    you are correct, but the only way for regional banking to be unanimously accepted and possibly taken seriously by aventurine is to create a compromise with bindstone recall. that's why i'm looking for qualifications.

    in other words, how can recalling be implemented in a way that allows those, especially lower level players, to pve efficiently without having to travel back and forth even locally; to be overweight due to pve and pvp circumstances; to pvp in hostile territory and get away if they feel overwhelmed and/or need to leave from the computer; and to pve/pvp while roaming around regions that won't have any banks nearby, all while allowing the depth proponents want when it comes to trading and the risk/reward associated with it?

  • HotjazzHotjazz BalsfjordPosts: 742Member
    Originally posted by 7star

    A lot of the people that want local/regional banking don't like a lot of the insta-travel. 

     

    The issues you mentioned of whather travel and banking would be "tedious" is a relevant and at the heart of the debate. What is tedious to some is "immersive" or "tactical" to others. The game would change fundamentally depended on the options related to banking. 

     

    First of all, insta-travel is not bad. I don`t know what game you guys have played without some kind of fast travel, but  I played UO in the late 90s, and we had moongates, recall and portals to travel across the land.

    I agree the portals in Darkfall shouldn`t have been placed in player citys, but that doesn`t mean some wilderness portals would be bad.

     

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hotjazz

    First of all, insta-travel is not bad. I don`t know what game you guys have played without some kind of fast travel, but  I played UO in the late 90s, and we had moongates, recall and portals to travel across the land.

    I agree the portals in Darkfall shouldn`t have been placed in player citys, but that doesn`t mean some wilderness portals would be bad.

     

     

    This I definitely agree with.   

     

    ++++++++++++++++++++

     

    AV never stated that insta travel was gone, but they did say that it should be available to everyone, and that clan city/hamlet  teleport chambers were taken out.   I don't think it is too far fetched to conclude that recall has also been taken out, and the only form of insta travel will be some kind of wilderness hub that anyone can traverse.   

     

     

  • WulfynWulfyn YeovilPosts: 19Member

    There would need to be some changes to how some of the game mechanics worked for regional / local banking to have the impact that is requested. In order to understand what changes are required then we have to look at the reason for this style of banking.

     

    For me there are 3 main reasons why regional/local banking could improve the game.

    1: Territorial Focus

    2: Player diversity

    3: Ships & Caravans

     

    1.

    Look at the map to see who owns what. Everything is all over the place. People have cities and hamlets that are just spread across the map and each weekend the server plays a whack-a-mole game of swap arounds. It means that people have to travel a lot, don't have any stability in where they live, and spreads the fighting players over the map that only the siege mechanics can bring them back to focus during very specific times. This is all because global banking means that no logistics are required. People can just run naked / port to a new place, grab stuff out their bank and then go fight. It means it is better to have your holdings spread across the map because it is just as easy to defend no matter where it is. By reducing people to only having gear close to their home then you set up territories where people expand into close areas in order to be able to keep control over them. If you want to invade a sub-continent then you have to establish a base and then risk moving your goods close. This is good for pvp as it means that people will be concentrated in these key areas, making it more likely to get fights.

     

    2.

    If you can do everything there is to do in a game, either because it interests you or because it is easy to do, then you don't really have an MMO you have a large co-op game. The key is the first M - massively. There has to be a diversity of things that need to be done in order to attract a diversity of players. Regional/local banking adds logistics to the game, and although to many players - especially ones used to the self sufficiency that darkfall offers - that sounds like a drag there are a ton of people that love doing that sort of thing. This brings them into the game, not only for something to do but a way to be rewarded. If you are a hardcore pvp clan full of vicious killers that hate logistics then you need to find some people to do that for you, even if it is another group you pay to transport your gear. This diversity is key to a successful MMO with a large playerbase.

     

    3.

    If you have to transport your stuff then people need to do the transporting. And if there are any sort of weight limitations then it has to be transported by sea. This gives ships something to do, as let's be honest they have f-all purpose at the moment. Even more so if regionalisation goes a step further so that different parts of the map tend to have different resources as this creates a need for trade and therefore a need for transportation and trade hubs.

     

     

    So with that in mind what else needs to support it? Well for a start being able to transport through recall would break the need for any overland/sea transportation. A quick way would be to prevent this whilst encumbered that would make large mass transportation necessary to be carried, but would still allow for low mass valuable items to be teleported. This is one of the few areas where cost could change playstyle - you wouldn't spend 5k gp to pay for a teleport to protect a 5k gp item. However large amounts of resources would have to be moved outside of this, player equipment would also have to be as well. If you are overwieght with loot then you have a choice to try and carry it back (higher risk but higher reward) or just pick the best stuff and recall. This way you aren;t making it awkward for individual players to go about fighting or trying to survive but you do prevent the insta-logistics.

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  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member

    You can't bind runestones everywhere. Problem solved.

     

    Also AV promsed that the exits of teleporting will be inside caves with dangerous mobs and dungeons where you have to fight your way out of it.

    It was a promise given just few months before launch where are those ? Why has this promise been broken like so many others ?

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  • ZigZagsZigZags Modesto, CAPosts: 328Member
    This game better not have a hearthstone type warp back to your bind point. That is for carebear games and hello kitty island adventure

    Now: Skyrim
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  • joshuawnjoshuawn Conifer, COPosts: 9Member

    i don't think any of you understood this thread at all, but ok.

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member

    If I was to implement local banking I wouldensure that their were resources specific to the region.  I would make crafting more complicated to utilize these resources better.  This would create pvp hotspots.  I would also implement a tough penalty for killing race alliance people.  If people want to be bad guys, let them but there should be consequences that matter.  If you see another player you should not immediately attack or get attacked because then the game just becomes a mindless arena pvp zone.  It needs to be a sandbox, with good guys and bad guys.  Trade, pvp and pve.

    If you think I went off on a tangent, I will bring it back but my poibnt was a local banking system requires complimentary changers to other systems.  You should be building up a territory and creating strategic alliances.  If you are all spread out then so are your supply lines and should be easily dispatched.  

    With local banking you will have areas known to gave better trading.  This is turn will bring out some thieves.  Which could result in bodyguards.  I would make recall not work when you are encumbered.  I would add pack mules to help you carry heavy loads.

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member
    In the pruposed systesm by everyone (including myself) you make it so you simply cannot bindstone when encumbered. Problem fixed.

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  • joshuawnjoshuawn Conifer, COPosts: 9Member


    Originally posted by xpiher
    In the pruposed systesm by everyone (including myself) you make it so you simply cannot bindstone when encumbered. Problem fixed.

    there would have to be a radical remodeling of item weights to make it so commonly traded/valuable items would encumber you quicker than items you acquire in pvp and lower-end pve. however, most items you acquire during pve in the long run (in other words, the mid game to end game monsters) SHOULD be useful.

    how would you balance item weights out so that one can kill monsters long enough to attain a respectable level of value (according to a ratio of monster difficulty to player skill) while still going overweight quickly enough to negate bindstone recalling as a workaround to regional trading? can your solution also negate the possibility of becoming overweight too quickly with pvp loot?

    i'm pretty sure we take bindstone recalling while overweight for granted more than we actually realize.

    the only ways i can see this working out as simply as possible is by increasing the amount of banks available in the world so most, if not every, spawns are within a reasonable (in my eyes, that would be 10 minutes max) walking distance and/or putting higher end spawns in spots farther away from banks than lower end spawns. both of those will make pve and open world pvp feel extremely stagnant and limited, albeit more risky for the better if only the latter was followed through.

    i think your solution and its implications are too simple, but i think it is a step in the right direction.

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    This posts explains the system fairly well. It goes it to great detail.

    http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=327854

     

    Here is a website with proposed changes for Darkfall UW.

    http://www.darkfallce.webs.com/

     

    All of this is doesn't matter seeing that DF UW is set to release in just over 5 weeks. There isn't enough time to implement many if any of the proposed changes.

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