Feeling rapid decay of enthusiasm

grimal · September 2012

Originally posted by Kuinn

I can see where you are coming from, and propably many agree with you, it's the most traditional RPG way which I have enjoyed many times too, but there's also a lot of people who have been saying for ages that they would love to start playing the game at lvl1 instead of waiting for max level to start playing. GW2 should be pretty good choise for them. Saying that end-game starts at lvl1 would be a bit strange statement if you had to play to max level just to unlock your gameplay tools.

Then we can ask what RPG is to every individual? To me there's plenty of different kinds, but one of the best RPG's I've ever played is the Mass Effect series even with the recent fails, and none of the games in the trilogy really had anykind of in-depth character development.

Having said that, I wouldnt mind more meaningful character unlocks towards the end of the leveling, perhaps more elite abilities to choose from every 5 levels or so, but it certainly is not a requirement for me.

I like being able to swap between the engineer kits early on, I'm not sure if I would like the system better if I would unlock grenade kit at lvl50, elixir gun at lvl60 while enjoying flame thrower at closer to max level and not being able to use supply drop before max level at all.

Bit of confusion here...forget about WoW. I am not talking about the whole play to get endgame thing. To me, that's an aside and not really what I am talking about. I am talking about core character progression.

As a sidenote: I don't raid. I don't do endgame. I approach an MMO like a CRPG: character progression. Usually the story end and the character reach the end at the same time. If they don't. the game doesn't sit well with me.

GrayGhost79 · September 2012

Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by asmkm22
I got bored by level 14, so I have no clue how you guys are getting to 60+. I have a really low tollerance for doing the same thing over and over, though, so I suppose that's my problem. The game is definitely one big grind.

What are you even doing on this site? Low tolerance for doing the same things over and over in a MMO hahahahaha.

Guild Wars 2 is probably the least repetitive MMO you can find, since you dont 'need' to grind. You can grind for appearance stuff, but by no means is it required. Also the ways to level is far more varied than any other MMO I have seen where it is 'repeat kill quests' or 'grind mobs in x area repeatedly'.

The difference is that in other MMO's, there seems to be a reason to "kill x mobs." It may not be the most realistic reason, but it's still some kind of story slowly builds on itself. GW2 has plenty of stuff to do, sure, but I always feel like I'm doing it for the sake of doing it. It's basically just opening the map up, and looking for unfilled hearts. Run to them and do whatever task pops up (usually "kill x mobs" or "interact with x objects") and then get some experience. I don't even have to talk to anyone; I just get the credit and move on.

So although there is a lot of different stuff to do in the game, all of it lacks any meaningful context, making it feel literally like a grind.

It's just my opinion though, I'm not trying to dog on the game. I feel the same way about most asian MMO's, and recognize it's just not my preference. There are pleanty of MMO's, however, that have enough of an actual story to keep me going.

you watch this video by any chance? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTF9T4oQ480&feature=g-all-u

you seem to be missing out on the main meat of GW2 content and probably why you don't see the context of quests.. hearts are only a guide and shouldn't be looked at as the meat of GW2 questing unless you want them to be that is.

This tends to be the issue, some seem to be trained to ignore the world around them in a game. All the meat and info you need they expect to be given in a condensed little box and called "story". What they don't realize is the story is unfolding all around them and they are simply ignoring it then complaining it isn't there.

Aerowyn · September 2012

Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Kuinn

I can see where you are coming from, and propably many agree with you, it's the most traditional RPG way which I have enjoyed many times too, but there's also a lot of people who have been saying for ages that they would love to start playing the game at lvl1 instead of waiting for max level to start playing. GW2 should be pretty good choise for them. Saying that end-game starts at lvl1 would be a bit strange statement if you had to play to max level just to unlock your gameplay tools.

Then we can ask what RPG is to every individual? To me there's plenty of different kinds, but one of the best RPG's I've ever played is the Mass Effect series even with the recent fails, and none of the games in the trilogy really had anykind of in-depth character development.

Having said that, I wouldnt mind more meaningful character unlocks towards the end of the leveling, perhaps more elite abilities to choose from every 5 levels or so, but it certainly is not a requirement for me.

I like being able to swap between the engineer kits early on, I'm not sure if I would like the system better if I would unlock grenade kit at lvl50, elixir gun at lvl60 while enjoying flame thrower at closer to max level and not being able to use supply drop before max level at all.

Bit of confusion here...forget about WoW. I am not talking about the whole play to get endgame thing. To me, that's an aside and not really what I am talking about. I am talking about core character progression.

As a sidenote: I don't raid. I don't do endgame. I approach an MMO like a CRPG: character progression. Usually the story end and the character reach the end at the same time. If they don't. the game doesn't sit well with me.

For me one of the main strives for character progression is the trait system.. Much like Rift which had me hooked on it's soul system for many months the traits system offers a lot of flexability. Just in the last 3 days on my ranger I have gone from a crit happy bow weilding sniper type to a sword/dagger bleed happy acrobatic warrior type to a spirit pet savy condition support build. Unlocking more and more talent points and allowing more and more combinations of builds I can come up with. I can see the need of wanting more ability progression as you level but for me the flexability of the trait system far outweighs the gaining fireball XXIV at level 80.. now if they just add a build creator so I can swap builds outside combat on the fly ill be a very happy camper.

hotix · September 2012

I played this game very slowly, and of course I'm 80 and fully geared on my main and have nothing to do. It's not that the game is boring, it's just that there is literally nothing to do at 80 once you get fully geared. WvW gets stale quickly, unless you like fighitng zerg vs zerg. Tournies were fun, but now there is no point. Ow you want to explore the whole world? Did that.... How bout an alt???? No ty. I felt I should answer all the questions that would be coming shortly. Sad to say but Rift's new expansion is looking better and better each day. Unless of course you're like me and have a pipe dream that DFUW will be any good. "IT WON'T".

Stx11 · September 2012

Originally posted by darkhalf357x
Thank you :-)

...and EverQuest works for me.

What I love about MMORPGs today is (abundance of) choice.

I agree, and want there to be more choice

I do find it a bit ironic that it took me 30 years to finally have a computer game more focused on my "narrativist/character centric" outlook, just so I can see a thread like this ressurecting the age old "Power-Gamer/Munchkin Vs Narrativist/Conception Based" RPG arguement.

I know that ANet is planning on adding more Weapons to the game and to Professions but the only hints I've seen of that are with Expansions.

There is a lot of potential for character growth and customization in the game. I'd personally like to see Support-Based Underwater Weapons as (at least on my Warrior) they are all Damage-Focused and I think there's a lot of room for growth there especially if they add entire underwater zones to explore.

While I understand people's complaints about "having all their Skills at lvl 7" I do get ticked off because Traits really play a huge role in how you conceive of and play your character. My whole playstyle and choices of Weapons and Utility Skills changed at 60 when I could unlock the final Tactics Traits.

From what I've heard about all the "1st Generation" of MMOs I think I'd most like to see Asheron's Call remade - it sounds like there were a lot of great features in that game many of which haven't been seen since.

I've wondered if people could even handle a Fantasy MMO with EVE-style character progression?

Like you I'm very interested to see where GW2 goes. Fortunately for me I'm really pleased with what I have now too!

darkhalf357x · September 2012

Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by darkhalf357x
Originally posted by Meowhead
The funny thing is, the whole 'no constant spread of non-cosmetic rewards' thing is a reason stated for some people (Like me) as a reason to like the game.

I've also always said that some people won't like that, but some people will.

I still am enjoying the game.

Some people really need that kind of motivator to play a game though. For those people, GW2 is probably going to have less of a shelf life. (Though for MOST people, I'd say it's still probably worth the box price even if you end up not playing it for months on end).

So uh... hmm.

Guess I didn't really learn anything new here! Other than I'm right. That's kind of cool, being right and all. ... and since I am enjoying myself, and there are others who are, the people who said 'you need progression for an MMORPG' are wrong.

The people who also said it'd totally change how people play games were also wrong, because it's directed to a specific type of game player so far as long term MMORPG playing goes.

Only people in the middle, the people who were like 'Some people will like it, some won't.' were right in their predictions. Go me. (Yes, this whole post is me patting myself on the back for being able to tell the future)

(edit: Also, I think a lot of people don't understand what makes an RPG an RPG. Power progression is nowhere in the name 'Role Playing Game'. It might be more accurate to say that it has become so closely entwined with computer RPGs that it is one of the defining function of COMPUTER RPGs. ... but many single player CRPGs don't even have progression that lasts as long as GW2 progression does. Does a single player RPG stop being an RPG after you get the best weapon and highest level? Does that mean it's safe to quit the game after that, and fighting the boss is merely something to do that isn't part of the RPG itself? I dunno. Progression has become one of the most common things shared between computer RPGs (There are pen and paper RPGs with little to no progression), but just because so many shooters nowadays have a weapon swapping button doesn't mean that a button that swaps weapons makes something an FPS.)

Ive been playing RPGs since pen and paper D&D. Its not power progression, but role playing progression. The whole draw to the game was that you had a character you created (configured stats) and were able to experience its growth from a starting character to however you lead it. You controlled the actions. Dealt with the consequences.

When this was implemented in video games (Dragon Quest 1986 being one of the first console RPGs) they translated this growth into level progression. Growing from a lowly starting character into a hero that saved the world (based on your decision to raise your stats). These games loosely followed the D&D rule set. Strict classes. Alignment. etc.

Final Fantasy II (Japan) was the first console game I remember introducing the skill-based model which was more flexible. Though a poor implementation it was interesting to have a character use any weapon or spell which only got better through use.

What has changed is how RPGs have been impelemted. No longer are RPGs the staple stories we knew of the past (hero amnesiac who grows slowly over time). Today a First Person Shooter can be considered an RPG because it allows you to customize a character. This isn't a true RPG in my book but rather a FPS that has elements of an RPG.

The length of an RPG (or even a game considered to have RPG elements) is difficult to define depending on how many secondary systems are included. Skyrim is a perfect example. It could easily last for however long you would like to play. Obviously in the long run it cannot compete with an MMO which are typically updated over time. But Skyrim comes close with its DLC updates. It also depends on the player. A RPG is over when you feel you have accomplished whatever goal you have set for yourself. Which could be the difference between a completionist and someone who wants to reach max level. Like GW2, Skyrim truly 'begins' after you complete the main storyline which is purposely quick.

Lets not confuse getting a better weapon with character progression. The former is an aspect for the latter. A weapon doesn't grow the character does.

Another thing I noticed is that most 'standard' RPGs (for lack of a better term) are played at a slow pace which presents a certain style. GW2 speeds that 'style' up to be on par with action-based titles. While playing GW2 slowly is an option of the player, I would say the gameplay style lends itself more to action which is some (perhaps small ways) takes away from the RPG feeling.

RPGs at their core are about conflict (internal or external), and how you as a character fit within in it and deal with it. GW2 focuses more on the action (the execution of the conflict) than it does the consequence of the character performing it.

As said before GW2 is a quality game that some will like, and others will not depending on where you sit on this argument. The question I am seeing is if ANet meant to overlook the RPG portion of the MMO? Future expansions will tell. Im willing to hang out to see.

Well said. I agree. But if we look back to ADnD, level progression was in there. True, it wasn't as quite as profound in MMOs because...well...you had that incredible ROLEPLAY which is pretty much non existent in the computer side of things.
Sure, you can try and roleplay, but unless you've been in a room of smelly guys after numerous hours really going off in directions you didn't think possible eight hours earlier, then you might not know what I mean.

So, roleplay took a back seat and character progession became first and foremost. I think for the most part people were fine with that. But this move AWAY from that to a more "explorer" type game doesn't feel quite right to me. It looks like an RPG, smells like an RPG, but it isnt? Huh? My mind kind of gets confused while playing it. But I think thats it.

And yes, interesting to see if they can implement it more in the game. Not sure how they would do that without fully reworking the classes.

LOL, you do bring back memories...Basements. Frozen pizza and pop tarts. Ive learned there is no limit to imagination ;-)

I was all over GW2 from like 2010. Everything I read and followed up on screamed exactly what I was looking for. I would say it has strong RPG elements, but almost by its own definition it cannot be a true RPG. In order for that to happen it is as if they would have to accept principles they actively designed against. I applaud their creativity and courage to do something completely different. It (hopefully) inspires the evolution to continue (lord knows we need it) ;-)

I loved the BWE and the pre and post launch. I rolled a Asura Engineer. I guess initially I loved the torn down technical barriers found in MMOs to date. The quest hubs. The node stealing. etc. That did feel fresh and I will always argue should be the NEW staple going forward for any MMORPG. If anything is copied from GW2 it should be that. It adds a much needed convenience.

But yes, as I moved up in level I didn't fully grasp the context or conflict of why I was running around doing the things I was doing (beyond the immediate need). Now perhaps it was because I didnt talk to every NPC. Or maybe I was too busy exploring to catch some meaningful text about the lore. I just felt like I was killing mobs just to kill them. It didnt feel grindy. I enjoyed the combat but I just couldnt connect with my character why I was doing it. Perhaps I didnt play long enough. I even rolled a Ranger alt and got him to level 5 or 6 before I started questioning my motivation. Or maybe it was the reasons given were not realistic enough for me. Like you I cannot explain it. But it definitely prevented me from wanting to log on.

On the flip side I then say this is exactly what ANet wanted to create. Looking at it a different way it is a different way to play an RPG. Just go out and do and as a result of that 'doing' you will grow. In my old age I might have to admit my mind is too stubborn to accept that :-(

I just have to accept that I have turned into that old crudmugeon who likes how RPGs of old were played. (Hell I still love turn-based - dont hit me!). The silver lining for me is that GW2 has ironically pointed me to EQ which I started an account last week and I'm BLOWN AWAY. Its like exactly what I wanted and I am loving it (as much as others love GW2). Its the complexity and depth of the game that I enjoy. I had to visit websites just to understand how to play. Genius. I dont like hand holding at all. Well maybe a little. I need a good map with markers. Im crippled if I have to walk blind. Surprisingly I speak and work with my guild WAY more than I did in GW2 and that has a noticeable difference in how I perceive the game. EQ is ancient and it shows. But somehow it doesnt detract from the enjoyment because I am truly playing with others. Now I like logging in just to talk with my guildies. If I finish a few questlines or gain a few levels thats a benefit (not the goal). As a melee character I have one skill. No two. Autoattack and kick. Yet I still get excited fighting mobs as you don't know if you are going to survive unless you manage your resources.

I like seeing my Vah Shir Beastlord grow from a lowly slave in Glooming Deep to the level 23 magic spitting warrior with warder. I take screenshots just so I can track my progression. Im crazy like that.

Now what I would love is if someone could take EQ and update it to GW2 standards. 1080p graphics. More dynamic/life-like mobs. Full voice (not SWTOR-like cinematics). All the new mechanics. And Id even request an offline AH that I can check from my cell phone. Almost got addicted to WOW Armory for a minute. Ingenious idea. Vanguard was close but was marred by poor implementation (that doesnt look like will get fixed) as well as going too realistic (crafting was a workout and games should be fun).

The X factor is finding that sweet spot.

TheHavok · September 2012

A steady decline of Twitch viewers and streamers. The Twitch community, atleast for GW2, tend to be more interested in PvP. Since the PvP hasn't really gotten much love since the game came out, the decline has been rapid, even amongst the more popular streamers like Paradigm, Team Legacy, and Alpha Collective.

One patch can fix this (atleast for SPVP): add a ladder or ranking system, add an elo system to separate players into tiers based on their skill, tweak class balance, and BAM - interest will return.......hopefully.

Aerowyn · September 2012

Originally posted by TheHavok
A steady decline of Twitch viewers and streamers. The Twitch community, atleast for GW2, tend to be more interested in PvP. Since the PvP hasn't really gotten much love since the game came out, the decline has been rapid, even amongst the more popular streamers like Paradigm, Team Legacy, and Alpha Collective.

One patch can fix this (atleast for SPVP): add a ladder or ranking system, add an elo system to separate players into tiers based on their skill, tweak class balance, and BAM - interest will return.......hopefully.

these two have been in since launch unless i'm misinterpreting what you are asking for.

asmkm22 · September 2012

Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by asmkm22
I got bored by level 14, so I have no clue how you guys are getting to 60+. I have a really low tollerance for doing the same thing over and over, though, so I suppose that's my problem. The game is definitely one big grind.

What are you even doing on this site? Low tolerance for doing the same things over and over in a MMO hahahahaha.

Guild Wars 2 is probably the least repetitive MMO you can find, since you dont 'need' to grind. You can grind for appearance stuff, but by no means is it required. Also the ways to level is far more varied than any other MMO I have seen where it is 'repeat kill quests' or 'grind mobs in x area repeatedly'.

The difference is that in other MMO's, there seems to be a reason to "kill x mobs." It may not be the most realistic reason, but it's still some kind of story slowly builds on itself. GW2 has plenty of stuff to do, sure, but I always feel like I'm doing it for the sake of doing it. It's basically just opening the map up, and looking for unfilled hearts. Run to them and do whatever task pops up (usually "kill x mobs" or "interact with x objects") and then get some experience. I don't even have to talk to anyone; I just get the credit and move on.

So although there is a lot of different stuff to do in the game, all of it lacks any meaningful context, making it feel literally like a grind.

It's just my opinion though, I'm not trying to dog on the game. I feel the same way about most asian MMO's, and recognize it's just not my preference. There are pleanty of MMO's, however, that have enough of an actual story to keep me going.

you watch this video by any chance? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTF9T4oQ480&feature=g-all-u

you seem to be missing out on the main meat of GW2 content and probably why you don't see the context of quests.. hearts are only a guide and shouldn't be looked at as the meat of GW2 questing unless you want them to be that is.

As interesting as that seems, you'd think the developers would do a better job at making that kind of content, well, known. As it stands, dynamic events come across as being fairly random and disjointed, and there is no indication in game that says they should be anything else. In fact, the starting scout that you talk to just says to run around and help people in need.

Is it great that there is a story to some of the events? Sure. Is it great that a youtube video explaining how you should wait around for them to happen as a chain in order to see that story? Not so much.

The funny thing is, I'm not even the kind of player who rushes through stuff. I run around looking at all the little corners of the world, just exploring, because that's what's normally fun for me to do. I hit the "heart" areas in GW2 because I may as well. For whatever reason, dynamic events have never opened up in a way that makes any sense beyond some random thing happening.

Aerowyn · September 2012

Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by asmkm22
I got bored by level 14, so I have no clue how you guys are getting to 60+. I have a really low tollerance for doing the same thing over and over, though, so I suppose that's my problem. The game is definitely one big grind.

What are you even doing on this site? Low tolerance for doing the same things over and over in a MMO hahahahaha.

Guild Wars 2 is probably the least repetitive MMO you can find, since you dont 'need' to grind. You can grind for appearance stuff, but by no means is it required. Also the ways to level is far more varied than any other MMO I have seen where it is 'repeat kill quests' or 'grind mobs in x area repeatedly'.

The difference is that in other MMO's, there seems to be a reason to "kill x mobs." It may not be the most realistic reason, but it's still some kind of story slowly builds on itself. GW2 has plenty of stuff to do, sure, but I always feel like I'm doing it for the sake of doing it. It's basically just opening the map up, and looking for unfilled hearts. Run to them and do whatever task pops up (usually "kill x mobs" or "interact with x objects") and then get some experience. I don't even have to talk to anyone; I just get the credit and move on.

So although there is a lot of different stuff to do in the game, all of it lacks any meaningful context, making it feel literally like a grind.

It's just my opinion though, I'm not trying to dog on the game. I feel the same way about most asian MMO's, and recognize it's just not my preference. There are pleanty of MMO's, however, that have enough of an actual story to keep me going.

you watch this video by any chance? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTF9T4oQ480&feature=g-all-u

you seem to be missing out on the main meat of GW2 content and probably why you don't see the context of quests.. hearts are only a guide and shouldn't be looked at as the meat of GW2 questing unless you want them to be that is.

As interesting as that seems, you'd think the developers would do a better job at making that kind of content, well, known. As it stands, dynamic events come across as being fairly random and disjointed, and there is no indication in game that says they should be anything else. In fact, the starting scout that you talk to just says to run around and help people in need.

Is it great that there is a story to some of the events? Sure. Is it great that a youtube video explaining how you should wait around for them to happen as a chain in order to see that story? Not so much.

The funny thing is, I'm not even the kind of player who rushes through stuff. I run around looking at all the little corners of the world, just exploring, because that's what's normally fun for me to do. I hit the "heart" areas in GW2 because I may as well. For whatever reason, dynamic events have never opened up in a way that makes any sense beyond some random thing happening.

you have said you didn't play long so you probably haven't noticed but all DE's have a trigger.. it's usually a NPC calling for help or sometimes you will see a orange icon over a NPCs head these are DE trigger NPCs as well.. each one starts from someone/something starting it and ends based on how it gets finished.. thing that makes the system fun for me is they happen with or without you.. unlike other MMOs where every quest is all about "you" for the most part, in guild wars 2 it's about the world the zones and whats going on inside them not all about "you".. It's obviously not for everyone but it's bar far one of my favorite aspects of GW2

TheHavok · September 2012

Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by TheHavok
A steady decline of Twitch viewers and streamers. The Twitch community, atleast for GW2, tend to be more interested in PvP. Since the PvP hasn't really gotten much love since the game came out, the decline has been rapid, even amongst the more popular streamers like Paradigm, Team Legacy, and Alpha Collective.

One patch can fix this (atleast for SPVP): add a ladder or ranking system, add an elo system to separate players into tiers based on their skill, tweak class balance, and BAM - interest will return.......hopefully.

these two have been in since launch unless i'm misinterpreting what you are asking for.

I have yet to see any kind of ranking system or elo system for SPvP.

Aerowyn · September 2012

Originally posted by TheHavok
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by TheHavok
A steady decline of Twitch viewers and streamers. The Twitch community, atleast for GW2, tend to be more interested in PvP. Since the PvP hasn't really gotten much love since the game came out, the decline has been rapid, even amongst the more popular streamers like Paradigm, Team Legacy, and Alpha Collective.

One patch can fix this (atleast for SPVP): add a ladder or ranking system, add an elo system to separate players into tiers based on their skill, tweak class balance, and BAM - interest will return.......hopefully.

these two have been in since launch unless i'm misinterpreting what you are asking for.

I have yet to see any kind of ranking system or elo system for SPvP.

I'm still rank 9 but there is a ranking system my buddy just hit rank 25 yesterday.. also the quick match system is supposed to match you with similar "ranked" members and seems to be working for the most part based on peoples armor I see.

Kaynos1972 · September 2012

I havent log in over a week and it's not because i rushed to end game, my highest character is like level 25.... i just dont feel like playing it. Last time i logged, played an hour and left because of boredom.

avalon1000 · September 2012

Originally posted by GrumpyCharr
I suppose it depends on the circle you hang with. A bunch of people in my guild blitzed to 80 and complained about begin bored. The rest of us laughed and ate a cookie in their honor. It's amazing how people think that GW2 is simply a vertical progression game. It's much more than that, as was Guild Wars 1. I guess some get it, and some don't.

By the way, if you do ANYTHING without taking a break, it gets a bit old. I've taken a couple breaks and played other games on certain days. Then I start thinking, "I have so many zones to complete!" and log right back into Guild Wars 2. Just me, but that's my thought.

This is it. If you are level 80 by now you did it wrong. You rushed to get there and you played too many hours. Explore the game...find the hidden treasures. Take time off to do othe things in life...then possibly you won't be tired of this fantastic game.

asmkm22 · September 2012

Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by asmkm22
I got bored by level 14, so I have no clue how you guys are getting to 60+. I have a really low tollerance for doing the same thing over and over, though, so I suppose that's my problem. The game is definitely one big grind.

What are you even doing on this site? Low tolerance for doing the same things over and over in a MMO hahahahaha.

Guild Wars 2 is probably the least repetitive MMO you can find, since you dont 'need' to grind. You can grind for appearance stuff, but by no means is it required. Also the ways to level is far more varied than any other MMO I have seen where it is 'repeat kill quests' or 'grind mobs in x area repeatedly'.

The difference is that in other MMO's, there seems to be a reason to "kill x mobs." It may not be the most realistic reason, but it's still some kind of story slowly builds on itself. GW2 has plenty of stuff to do, sure, but I always feel like I'm doing it for the sake of doing it. It's basically just opening the map up, and looking for unfilled hearts. Run to them and do whatever task pops up (usually "kill x mobs" or "interact with x objects") and then get some experience. I don't even have to talk to anyone; I just get the credit and move on.

So although there is a lot of different stuff to do in the game, all of it lacks any meaningful context, making it feel literally like a grind.

It's just my opinion though, I'm not trying to dog on the game. I feel the same way about most asian MMO's, and recognize it's just not my preference. There are pleanty of MMO's, however, that have enough of an actual story to keep me going.

you watch this video by any chance? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTF9T4oQ480&feature=g-all-u

you seem to be missing out on the main meat of GW2 content and probably why you don't see the context of quests.. hearts are only a guide and shouldn't be looked at as the meat of GW2 questing unless you want them to be that is.

As interesting as that seems, you'd think the developers would do a better job at making that kind of content, well, known. As it stands, dynamic events come across as being fairly random and disjointed, and there is no indication in game that says they should be anything else. In fact, the starting scout that you talk to just says to run around and help people in need.

Is it great that there is a story to some of the events? Sure. Is it great that a youtube video explaining how you should wait around for them to happen as a chain in order to see that story? Not so much.

The funny thing is, I'm not even the kind of player who rushes through stuff. I run around looking at all the little corners of the world, just exploring, because that's what's normally fun for me to do. I hit the "heart" areas in GW2 because I may as well. For whatever reason, dynamic events have never opened up in a way that makes any sense beyond some random thing happening.

you have said you didn't play long so you probably haven't noticed but all DE's have a trigger.. it's usually a NPC calling for help or sometimes you will see a orange icon over a NPCs head these are DE trigger NPCs as well.. each one starts from someone/something starting it and ends based on how it gets finished.. thing that makes the system fun for me is they happen with or without you.. unlike other MMOs where every quest is all about "you" for the most part, in guild wars 2 it's about the world the zones and whats going on inside them not all about "you".. It's obviously not for everyone but it's bar far one of my favorite aspects of GW2

I have noticed that they all, or at least most, have a trigger, mainly because i've triggered a few myself. As an example, there is a merchant in the Norn starter zone who yells out for you to help him. Doing so seems to spawn a minitaur stampede thing. You finish it and.... nothing. At least nothing that I've noticed. He never says thanks, and there doesn't seem to be anything else to the event.

That's not much of a story, and certainly not any better than "kill x creatures."

Anyway, the game is great fun for lots of people, and that's cool. I just haven't felt the "hook" at all. It's free, so I'm sure I'll pop in and play a little here and there, but I've never actually felt compelled to play due to some game or story feature. that's just me though.

Stx11 · September 2012

Originally posted by darkhalf357x
...But yes, as I moved up in level I didn't fully grasp the context or conflict of why I was running around doing the things I was doing (beyond the immediate need). Now perhaps it was because I didnt talk to every NPC. Or maybe I was too busy exploring to catch some meaningful text about the lore. I just felt like I was killing mobs just to kill them. It didnt feel grindy. I enjoyed the combat but I just couldnt connect with my character why I was doing it. Perhaps I didnt play long enough. I even rolled a Ranger alt and got him to level 5 or 6 before I started questioning my motivation. Or maybe it was the reasons given were not realistic enough for me. Like you I cannot explain it. But it definitely prevented me from wanting to log on.

I just wanted to comment on this a bit because I think you hit on something important.

I've played through almost all of Prophecies, part of Eye of the North, and read both prequel Novels for GW2. Not only that, but as I play I approach each Zone (and sometimes sub-zones) with the question "now what is happening here?" I learned to listen to the NPCs and just think about what kinds of events I was getting caught up in and so I view each Zone as its own "mini-story" or at the very least having a "theme."

So when I play GW2 I think about how I which of the many challenges facing Tyria I feel like participating in that day. Do I want to help stem the Centaur Threats facing the Humans? Perhaps today I will face down the Sons of Svanir? Or return to my Charr Homelands to challenge the Flame Legion? There are also Skritt, Ogres, and Quaggan to help or sometimes oppose. And of course as I've learned more about Tyria (leveling up) I know that there are Dragons, Branded, and Undead to contend with.

Level Scaling means I can choose where I want to go. DEs mean I know roughly what challenges I will face but since I don't know who will be present, how many allies I will have around me, or exactly what the state of events are I find more than enough variation and "uniqueness" to the experience that it doesn't feel repeatative to me.

How attached you are to your character, to the world you are playing in and the activities taking place can have a big impact on how you feel about a game.

TheHavok · September 2012

Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by TheHavok
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by TheHavok
A steady decline of Twitch viewers and streamers. The Twitch community, atleast for GW2, tend to be more interested in PvP. Since the PvP hasn't really gotten much love since the game came out, the decline has been rapid, even amongst the more popular streamers like Paradigm, Team Legacy, and Alpha Collective.

One patch can fix this (atleast for SPVP): add a ladder or ranking system, add an elo system to separate players into tiers based on their skill, tweak class balance, and BAM - interest will return.......hopefully.

these two have been in since launch unless i'm misinterpreting what you are asking for.

I have yet to see any kind of ranking system or elo system for SPvP.

I'm still rank 9 but there is a ranking system my buddy just hit rank 25 yesterday.. also the quick match system is supposed to match you with similar "ranked" members and seems to be working for the most part based on peoples armor I see.

I guess I should clarify. In Starcraft, a player will compete and based on how well he performs, he is put in a number of leagues: silver, gold, platinum, ect. That player has a hidden elo that determines his skill and puts him in the corresponding league, where he battles equally skilled opponents.

In WoW, arena teams have a ranking system based on their win/loss ratio. Winning matches gives them more points. The higher the points, the higher the rank on their battlegroup. This also uses a elo system and matches them with similarly skilled teams.

I understand there are glory ranks and I should have clarified what I meant by ranks. But Glory ranks only represent time invested, not skill. The SPVP community is craving something to represent skill.

Stx11 · September 2012

Originally posted by TheHavok
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by TheHavok
A steady decline of Twitch viewers and streamers. The Twitch community, atleast for GW2, tend to be more interested in PvP. Since the PvP hasn't really gotten much love since the game came out, the decline has been rapid, even amongst the more popular streamers like Paradigm, Team Legacy, and Alpha Collective.

One patch can fix this (atleast for SPVP): add a ladder or ranking system, add an elo system to separate players into tiers based on their skill, tweak class balance, and BAM - interest will return.......hopefully.

these two have been in since launch unless i'm misinterpreting what you are asking for.

I have yet to see any kind of ranking system or elo system for SPvP.

I think they are revamping the system and we're supposed to see 2 Dev Blog posts this coming week highlighting the changes/additions coming to sPvP and hopefully rough timelines (I do know things include Rankings and "real" Tournaments, Spectator Mode, and GvG)

Aerowyn · September 2012

Originally posted by TheHavok
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by TheHavok
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by TheHavok
A steady decline of Twitch viewers and streamers. The Twitch community, atleast for GW2, tend to be more interested in PvP. Since the PvP hasn't really gotten much love since the game came out, the decline has been rapid, even amongst the more popular streamers like Paradigm, Team Legacy, and Alpha Collective.

One patch can fix this (atleast for SPVP): add a ladder or ranking system, add an elo system to separate players into tiers based on their skill, tweak class balance, and BAM - interest will return.......hopefully.

these two have been in since launch unless i'm misinterpreting what you are asking for.

I have yet to see any kind of ranking system or elo system for SPvP.

I'm still rank 9 but there is a ranking system my buddy just hit rank 25 yesterday.. also the quick match system is supposed to match you with similar "ranked" members and seems to be working for the most part based on peoples armor I see.

I guess I should clarify. In Starcraft, a player will compete and based on how well he performs, he is put in a number of leagues: silver, gold, platinum, ect. That player has a hidden elo that determines his skill and puts him in the corresponding league, where he battles equally skilled opponents.

In WoW, arena teams have a ranking system based on their win/loss ratio. Winning matches gives them more points. The higher the points, the higher the rank on their battlegroup. This also uses a elo system and matches them with similarly skilled teams.

I understand there are glory ranks and I should have clarified what I meant by ranks. But Glory ranks only represent time invested, not skill. The SPVP community is craving something to represent skill.

i see i see and yes I know what you mean but you didn't specify:) it is something that looks to be coming with the sPVP update and the spectator mode and all that.. hopefully it's sooner rather than later,

Aerowyn · September 2012

Originally posted by asmkm22

I have noticed that they all, or at least most, have a trigger, mainly because i've triggered a few myself. As an example, there is a merchant in the Norn starter zone who yells out for you to help him. Doing so seems to spawn a minitaur stampede thing. You finish it and.... nothing. At least nothing that I've noticed. He never says thanks, and there doesn't seem to be anything else to the event.

That's not much of a story, and certainly not any better than "kill x creatures."

Anyway, the game is great fun for lots of people, and that's cool. I just haven't felt the "hook" at all. It's free, so I'm sure I'll pop in and play a little here and there, but I've never actually felt compelled to play due to some game or story feature. that's just me though.

if you do want to give it another go ill make a suggestion.. open up your map and on the bottom left corner is a little icon.. click on that and uncheck world completion. Then go out in the world and just explore.. if that still doesn't tickle your fancy i'd probably just move on or give PVP a try.

evilastro · September 2012

Originally posted by Yamota
Arena Net made a huge misstake by allowing you to get most of your skills by level 50. It is like they ran out of ideas for skills or something because those last levels should give you your most powerful skills but they dont give you shit except some passive trait bonuses.

I doubt they ran out of ideas for skills. GW1 literally has thousands of skills. They limited skills because they wanted to balance it easier.

evilastro · September 2012

Originally posted by Yakamomoto
Originally posted by evilastro. Guild Wars 2 is probably the least repetitive MMO you can find,

nah,sorry mate there is no way on earth Gw2 even comes remotely close to overall quest and dungeon variety in The Secret World. No freakin' way on earth.

I found 95% of TSWs content very repetitive. The puzzles were fine the first time through, but the end game is just another dungeon grinder.

Angier2758 · September 2012

Originally posted by Elikal
Despite what you may think, overall I did have a lot of fun in the first weeks. But now, in the last week or so, I suddenly feel a rapid decay of fun and enthusiasm. Like I log in less and feel less inclined to continue to play ANY of my chars.

My main is Warrior lv 66, (where on top, my story is bug-stuck with level 50), and I just could not bring myself to play today, despite being bored. I can't even say exactly why.

I just feel "oh my, another heart gather some phooey something". And what DEFINITELY starts to bug me: I didn't learn ANY new abilities for ages. Besides some extras, my chars have the same skills as they had with level 5. Looking forward to new abilities always was a major drive in MMOs for me. And this heart thing... hm. I enjoyed it at first, but now it feels kinda boring. I sort of miss the more directed, guided, dense approach of real questlines, which deliver a story more clear and coherent. Lack of trinity and real teamwork also starts to feel more lacking now that I play a longer time, and I feel like everyone is a soloer and jack of all trades and rarely anyone ever groups or talks.

Sigh.

Not sure. Just a sort of feeling.

EDIT: I never thought I'd say that, but I liked the quests and classes from SWTOR better. Sue me...

You've been complaining from the start.

Randayn · September 2012

Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Yakamomoto
Originally posted by evilastro. Guild Wars 2 is probably the least repetitive MMO you can find,

nah,sorry mate there is no way on earth Gw2 even comes remotely close to overall quest and dungeon variety in The Secret World. No freakin' way on earth.

I found 95% of TSWs content very repetitive. The puzzles were fine the first time through, but the end game is just another dungeon grinder.

hahahahaha....this is too funny considering GW2 is nothing more than several zones copy and pasted with objectives that involved collect x of y or kill 5 waves of x and then we might throw a boss mob your way....priceless.

Don't ever think that the QUALITY of content in GW2 is even 1% as good as the QUALITY of content in TSW. the idea is absurd. Sure, GW2 has tons of content....more than TSW definitely, but where GW2 has quantity, it most certainly does not have quality....GW2 should be called "Generic MMORPG you've seen before, but with DE's".....there should be a disclaimer at the bottom of that stating...."Although DE's might seem innovative, they are merely the same as quest hubs, but way more shallow and pointless"

Angier2758 · October 2012

^ this guy even play gw2 or is this just what tsw fans tell themselves to sleep at night?

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