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PvE server for darkfall UW?

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  • HairysunHairysun none, OHPosts: 1,060Member

    PvE server for darkfall UW?

     

    I read that and can't help but smile.  As many have said, the chances of this happening are very slim.  It goes against the core of AVs beliefs in what makes a game good. 

     

    You might as well ask "Will Blizzard make a Open PvP / Full Loot server in WoW?" 

     

    ~Hairysun

     

  • CcDohlCcDohl Atlanta, GAPosts: 65Member
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
    Originally posted by CcDohl
     

    I still don't see the problem with a PVE server though. Assuming that the server is separate, with zero chance for crossover characters, and assuming that it makes money and brings more people to the games, it wouldn't harm any aspect of the currently existing game, and could work to improve it with the money that comes in from the new subscribers.

    The only way a PVE server could be a negative is if it fails to bring enough people to support itself. That could affect the quality of the game, but the existance of the PVE server itself  has zero effect on a pvp player's experience.

    Saying you "don't see what the problem is" is not a compelling point for it. It's an argument from incredulity. Because you can't personally see what the problem would be, doesn't mean there wouldn't be problems, many of them perhaps. You have no idea what it's like working behind the scenes at AV or what they deal with on a day-to-day basis.

    I don't know the specific reasons why AV wouldn't want to add a PvE server, but I think I can make a pretty good guess..

    Because a PvE game isn't what they're interested in making. Aventurine was created with the specific goal of creating a sandboxy, very "Wild West" style, open world MMORPG with FFA World PvP, in the spirit of old Ultima Online.

    That's really the only reason they need.

    They knew when they were making DF1 that they were catering to a niche audience. They know as they're developing DF:UW that they're still catering to a niche audience. They're not doing this blind. I'm sure they're well aware of the "greater population" of people who prefer PvE gameplay. Yet they continue creating a MMO based around FFA PvP. That tells me that they have a very firm idea of the kind of game they want to make, the kind of experience they want it to be, and the kind of people they want to cater to. It's quite clearly not people who prefer PvE or consensual, no-risk PvP.

    As it stands, they're already making a pretty significant concession in creating newbie areas safe from PvP to allow new players the chance to learn the game, etc. Shadowbane - considered one of the most brutally hardcore FFAPvP MMORPGs ever released - did the same thing, and it was actually a good system. It's one thing being ganked when you've had time to learn the ropes and understand the basic gameplay. It's something else entirely when you're ganked while you're still brand-new to the game and trying to figure out which way up is.

    The PvE scene is absolutely saturated. There are literally hundreds of other MMOs out there that already cater to exactly what you're looking for. Surely one of them has to be up your alley? Why not play one of those, instead of arguing for a developer doing something different to become yet another developer trying to "cater to everyone"?

     

    Thanks for the logic lesson, let me respond. The saturation of the market, my specific tastes in games, and your own vision of the players to whom the game is catering are irrelevant to the argument.  You're mad over nothing, and kind of a tool.

    I hate PVE games, and I don't play them. I wouldn't play DF on the pve server.

    I'm just saying that if a PVE server brings in more money for the game, it would be a good thing. If not, it wouldn't. That's all. It wouldn't ruin the game for anyone, and if the pve is as good as people are claiming, it may be a good alternative for some people who are tired of themeparks but aren't quite in to the gankfest.

  • snapfusionsnapfusion San, CAPosts: 954Member
    Originally posted by 123443211234
    NO Everything in Darkfall revolves around pvp and the ability to be killed at any time.  A pve only server would be an entirely different game.  Although the pve in Darkfall is better, harder, and more interesting than any other mmo I've ever played it will never come close to preparing someone for a pvp encounter.  (i.e. your get comfortable and transfer comment)

    NO really?  Why because you would be tempted to play on it?    Why in the hell do YOU care what people do with their own time? You dont like, dont play on it.

    DF needs more subs and more money than their full loot PvP servers could ever produce.  They need this revenue to bring REGULAR updates to the game.  Something we never saw in the original DF.

    A PvE / no loot PvP server for DFUW would quadruple their sub base the revenue base and the amount of conent.

  • CcDohlCcDohl Atlanta, GAPosts: 65Member
    Originally posted by 123443211234
    Originally posted by CcDohl
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by googie23
    its a great way to bring alot of new players into the darkfall world and when they are ready they can  come to the PvP server and start a new character. never make an option to transfer from PvE to PvP.

    If you dont like Mexican food, dont go to a Mexican restaurant and ask them to make you spaghetti.

     

    There are a 1000 carebear games out there, why do you people insist on trying to change the few PVP ones?

    Because the idea of a game existing that doesn't cater specifically to "them" pisses a lot of people off, regardless of how many other games do.

    Because the idea that others might enjoy something they don't might shake their confidence that their preferences are "the right ones". This is why you see people citing numbers or popularity of a given playstyle so much. "More people agree with me, so I'm right and you're wrong. So there!".

    It's the whole "stop liking what I don't like" mindest in action.

    That someone enjoys a game and finds it worth their time and money should be all the justification they need. For many, sadly, it isn't.

    People who enjoy FFA PvP should absolutely have a game - even several - that they can play and enjoy. People who are "offended" by the idea just need to suck it up and go play a game they enjoy.

    If you're looking for a great steak, you don't go to a Vegan restaurant. You go to a steakhouse. if you're looking for a solid PvE experience, you go to a PvE-centric MMO, not a FFA PvP one.

    I'd like to see Darkfall: Unholy Wars succeed and wish AV all the best in pulling it off. I'd like to see Mortal Online somehow turn it around and succeed. I like that Eve Online is out there, alive and kickin' all these years later. There are people who enjoy those games, and it's great that they have those options.  It doesn't have to be "Darkfall or Mortal or Eve". There should be plenty of room for everyone.

     

     

    I still don't see the problem with a PVE server though. Assuming that the server is separate, with zero chance for crossover characters, and assuming that it makes money and brings more people to the games, it wouldn't harm any aspect of the currently existing game, and could work to improve it with the money that comes in from the new subscribers.

    The only way a PVE server could be a negative is if it fails to bring enough people to support itself. That could affect the quality of the game, but the existance of the PVE server itself  has zero effect on a pvp player's experience.

    There are several problems which have been discussed in detail apparently you people pushing for a PVE server lack reading comprehension.  Here are the top three reasons:

     

    1. Core mechanics of DF are ffa pvp THE ENTIRE GAME IS DESIGNED AROUND PVP.  (I know its hard for you carebears to imagine but DF is designed around conflict, they would have to change the entire game to make a pve server.

     

    2. Aventurine is a very very small company, they do not have the resources to cater to pve players.  (It would take a great deal of time and effort to maintain a pve server, thus taking away from their ability to maintain the pvp server, thus ruining the game)

     

    3.Aventurine is making a game that THEY WANT TO PLAY.  This means they do not care about millions of subs and world wide fame, they care about.....making a game they want to play.

    Okay, fair enough. Obviously it would be a business decision that they would make. However, I don't see how it could be a bad thing if it brings in more players and money for the company. The only people who would be mad are the troglodytes who get angry over other people playing games a certain way. You're not a troglodyte, are you?

  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member

    Asking for a PvE server in DF is like asking for hot ice-cream;

    there is a common misconception - mainly due to the 'brainwashing' themeparks have caused- that full-loot PvP is detrimental because it poses too great a penalty on the player upon death. That's, however, a view coming from a genre where gear is the goal of progression of a character. Indeed, if WoW had full-loot upon death, anyone losing hard-won "epix" would most likely rage-quit.

    However in games like DF the goal of character progression is character development through maxing out the skills; gear is a means that can help you advance your skills more easily, however it's not the focus of progression itself. Sure, there is rare gear that most players would rather not lose in combat, but most day-to-day gear, even good gear like high-tier armor and weapons, is usually easily replaceable for someone who has invested some time in the game.

    Similarly, the entire crafting system has been built around the concept of attrition/loss  too; gear is worn-out and eventually breaks, forcing the players to make new gear and thus cranking the wheel of the economy. Losing gear also makes the economy move by creating the need to replace it. If you had a PvE only server in Darkfall, then gear would seldom be replaced, or would be replaced at a very slow rate that would in effect render crafting almost useless.

    Coming from a themepark game FFA PvP may sound too harsh, but really when one gets to play the game and see for himself the relative importance of gear and losing it they would realize that a PvE ruleset would not work at all in DF.

     

    What CAN be fixed, however, is alignment and the bonuses/penalties stemming from it And that's something that hopefully will be balanced in DFUW giving everyone the option to play as they wish but also face the consequences.

  • HotjazzHotjazz BalsfjordPosts: 742Member
    Originally posted by Hairysun

    I read that and can't help but smile.  As many have said, the chances of this happening are very slim.  It goes against the core of AVs beliefs in what makes a game good. 

     You might as well ask "Will Blizzard make a Open PvP / Full Loot server in WoW?" 

    The sieges would be epic on a PVE server.

     

    Attacker: Hello fellow NPC slayer, can I siege your city?

    Defender: No

    Attacker: Ok, sorry for taking up your time, good bye

     

    I would have played an open world full-loot WOW.

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon ParisPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by snapfusion
    Originally posted by 123443211234
    NO Everything in Darkfall revolves around pvp and the ability to be killed at any time.  A pve only server would be an entirely different game.  Although the pve in Darkfall is better, harder, and more interesting than any other mmo I've ever played it will never come close to preparing someone for a pvp encounter.  (i.e. your get comfortable and transfer comment)

    NO really?  Why because you would be tempted to play on it?    Why in the hell do YOU care what people do with their own time? You dont like, dont play on it.

    DF needs more subs and more money than their full loot PvP servers could ever produce.  They need this revenue to bring REGULAR updates to the game.  Something we never saw in the original DF.

    A PvE / no loot PvP server for DFUW would quadruple their sub base the revenue base and the amount of conent.

    Ill say it again,why are you not playing Vanguard.

    It has a vast uninstanced world,bigger than DF.

    It has a deep crafting system that is a whole other game in itself with it's own quests armour and items.It takes just as long to level up as adventuring.

    It's has diplomacy which is another whole game in itself with it's own quests armour and items.Again this takes very long to level up and is full of telon lore.

    It has open world dungeons,some takes days if not weeks to finish.

    It has open world housing where everything is craftable,from bricks to wallpaper to carpets and plates,it's all player made.

    It has vast guild halls that are totally player made.

    It has ships from galeons to carvels all player made.

    It has over land raid bosses and open air dungeons.

    It has fully controled flying mounts and so many lands mounts its a joke.

    It has great weather system http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV8WRqTaEe8

    If you really wanted a pve world like df you would be playing Vanguard,i think you don't know what you want.

    Let df be df and play vanguard instead.

    19 races and 15 classes.

    Nah,you really haven't got the stomach for a true epic pve old style mmo.

  • dancingstardancingstar LeedsPosts: 346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hairysun

    PvE server for darkfall UW?

    I read that and can't help but smile.  As many have said, the chances of this happening are very slim.  It goes against the core of AVs beliefs in what makes a game good. 

    You might as well ask "Will Blizzard make a Open PvP / Full Loot server in WoW?" 

    I don't follow WoW or hang out on WoW related forums, but I wouldn't be surprised if that has been asked, repeatedly.  Seen enough people asking for PvP servers for GW2, TSW, even arguing for open-world PvP in Lord of the Rings Online, and I half suspect the OP is subtly parodying / mocking the multiple threads that crop for every new PvE-focussed game demanding PvP servers / open world PvP in one form or another, especially since "you might as well ask for PvE servers in EvE or Darkfall" is a common response to such.

  • oreal52oreal52 KøbenhavnPosts: 76Member Uncommon

    I would come back to DF if there was a PVE server for sure.I don't care about PVP and the meaningless gank-fests at all.

    I would love to explore the world and everything in the game without geting killed every 2 minutes by some high level mofo who can't find a better thing to do. I'm feeling lucky because the world is full of pve oriented games,so i will always have something to play even if its not DF.Whatever happens to DF :) i don't care :P

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon ParisPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by oreal52

    I would come back to DF if there was a PVE server for sure.I don't care about PVP and the meaningless gank-fests at all.

    I would love to explore the world and everything in the game without geting killed every 2 minutes by some high level mofo who can't find a better thing to do. I'm feeling lucky because the world is full of pve oriented games,so i will always have something to play even if its not DF.Whatever happens to DF :) i don't care :P

    Again,you want a vast open world to explore then come play Vanguard.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,536Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CcDohl
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
     

    Thanks for the logic lesson, let me respond. The saturation of the market, my specific tastes in games, and your own vision of the players to whom the game is catering are irrelevant to the argument.  You're mad over nothing, and kind of a tool.

    1. I'm not a tool. I'm not even "kind of a tool". I'm just expressing an opinion you don't like.

    2. I'm not angry. I'm sharing my opinion. And I'm doing it without any name calling!

    3. Market saturation is very relevant. How many PvE-centric MMOs are out there? How many of them are doing even as well as DF has, if not better? How many of them have you even heard of? I can name several that have smaller populations than DF has had. Which would be easier for a small company with limited resources to target:

    A) A niche market with a literal handful of viable options to choose from and a population of players who just happen to be looking for the kind of game AV is trying to create.

    B) A mainstream market already absolutely flooded with options, targeting a player-base of notoriously fickle game-hoppers with short attention spans and often unreasonable expectations, and which would require them to re-design and re-balance a huge chunk of a PvP-centric game to make it work purely as a PvE game, giving them essentially two games to maintain, and with no guarantee that the extra time, resources and expenses would actually yield adequate interest or revenue?

    Where do you think their efforts and resources would be better spent? I know which one I'd go with.

    4. There's the "small team, limited resources" part. That's relevant as well.

    I hate PVE games, and I don't play them. I wouldn't play DF on the pve server.

    I'm just saying that if a PVE server brings in more money for the game, it would be a good thing. If not, it wouldn't. That's all. It wouldn't ruin the game for anyone, and if the pve is as good as people are claiming, it may be a good alternative for some people who are tired of themeparks but aren't quite in to the gankfest.

    In theory, sure, that could work. If we're talking hypotheticals, then sure.. I can concede that it might work. It's still not necessarily a good idea, and, in my opinion, not likely to be what they're interested in doing in the first place.

     

  • CcDohlCcDohl Atlanta, GAPosts: 65Member
    Originally posted by Sylvarii
    Originally posted by oreal52

    I would come back to DF if there was a PVE server for sure.I don't care about PVP and the meaningless gank-fests at all.

    I would love to explore the world and everything in the game without geting killed every 2 minutes by some high level mofo who can't find a better thing to do. I'm feeling lucky because the world is full of pve oriented games,so i will always have something to play even if its not DF.Whatever happens to DF :) i don't care :P

    Again,you want a vast open world to explore then come play Vanguard.

    What are you? The advertising rep for Vanguard? Maybe you should invest in some banner space rather than just posting in the forums.

  • CcDohlCcDohl Atlanta, GAPosts: 65Member
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
    Originally posted by CcDohl
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
     

    In theory, sure, that could work. If we're talking hypotheticals, then sure.. I can concede that it might work. It's still not necessarily a good idea, and, in my opinion, not likely to be what they're interested in doing in the first place.

     

    So you admit that I'm right. Cool. Thanks.

  • tort0429tort0429 New York City, NYPosts: 300Member
    Originally posted by googie23
    its a great way to bring alot of new players into the darkfall world and when they are ready they can come to the PvP server and start a new character. never make an option to transfer from PvE to PvP.

    ARE YOU KIDDING!!!   With all the PVE games out there, leave this one to the hardcore PVP players. Why?  

    Because then I don't have to see them in my PVE games.   Let them gankfest each other to their hearts content.   PVP players are a different breed of player and I'm glad they have found their niche game.  Let them stay there the same we enjoy our PVE games and don't want them playing in PVE.

    I always thought the two can mix, get along, have fun together in some sort of hybrid game, but it will never happend.  The two PVE and PVP types of players will never mix in this genre.  Like trying to mix a boa constrictor with a dog and saying, come on now play nice together.

    I know some of you PVE'ers say, but I like occasional PVP. So do I, but that's also a different type of gameplay then what Darkfall hardcore players play.

    Leave them be and I say this, I promise not to invade your PVP world if you don't invade my PVE world.  Thank you.

     

     

     

  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,069Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
    Originally posted by CcDohl
     

    I still don't see the problem with a PVE server though. Assuming that the server is separate, with zero chance for crossover characters, and assuming that it makes money and brings more people to the games, it wouldn't harm any aspect of the currently existing game, and could work to improve it with the money that comes in from the new subscribers.

    The only way a PVE server could be a negative is if it fails to bring enough people to support itself. That could affect the quality of the game, but the existance of the PVE server itself  has zero effect on a pvp player's experience.

     You have no idea what circumstances are or what parameters they are working within. No one here does (unless they're secretly an AV employee of course :-p)

    Actually people know enough.

    1. AV is a self-funded private company 2. From memory they had expanded to 17 employees at launch; doubt they are much bigger now, Wiki says 48 employees. 3. They launched with 1 server and because that is all they could afford; the server capacity was expanded to 10k concurrent after the initial sales 4. The US server only opened after they secured a deal in the US.

    AV really are a tiny company compared to the behemoths that people take for granted. 

    Even if they had the money to open an additional server (and they wanted to) based on what Activision have said - they are struggling to keep up with how fast people are burning through content in WoW - and EA's experience with SWTOR - people burnt through all the content in 2.5 days - it is very clear that AV couldn't supply the PvE experience that would sustain PvE subscribers.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,536Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CcDohl
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
    Originally posted by CcDohl
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
     

    In theory, sure, that could work. If we're talking hypotheticals, then sure.. I can concede that it might work. It's still not necessarily a good idea, and, in my opinion, not likely to be what they're interested in doing in the first place.

     

    So you admit that I'm right. Cool. Thanks.

    No, you're not right.

    You're arguing a hypothetical, and ignoring everything working against it.

    Cherry picking someone else's statements and taking part out of context so it "fits your narrative" is an awfully dishonest way to discuss/debate.

    Try again. Or rather, don't. I doubt it would be at all productive at this point.

     

  • mombatoumombatou sac, CTPosts: 3Member
    NO, as a harvester and crafter named deep thrombois i would say the thrill of ffa is what made my day, 
  • NacarioNacario World Wide WebPosts: 217Member

    People who think of FFA full loot pvp as "meaningless gankfest" are representatives of the linear and spoiled crowd from themepark MMOs, where death has no risk and gear is the main form of progression - which is a counter to DF's vision. Fine, so you dont like how the original DF worked out, but at least you got plenty of themeparks out there with systems you like - let DUW stand out. Some gamers these days are too spoiled, but it is the other devs to blame as players are being spoon-fed, which also further removes their ability to be creative.

    If you could only open your eyes and discover the beauty of sandbox and the possibilities of risk.

  • 123443211234123443211234 seattle, WAPosts: 244Member
    Originally posted by CcDohl

    Okay, fair enough. Obviously it would be a business decision that they would make. However, I don't see how it could be a bad thing if it brings in more players and money for the company. The only people who would be mad are the troglodytes who get angry over other people playing games a certain way. You're not a troglodyte, are you?

    The problem is that it takes away resources and attention from the REAL Darkfall.  

    READ THIS AGAIN AV WAS FOUNDED WITH THE EXPLICIT PURPOSE OF MAKING AN FFA FULL LOOT MMO.  They did not start their company to make another mmo for the masses, they created their company for one purpose to make a ffa full loot open world mmo.  They have held true to their vision and YOU are the one asking them to compromise THEIR principles and very reason for existence.  (as long they can pay themselves a little and keep the lights and servers on DF is a success to AV)

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon ParisPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by CcDohl
    Originally posted by Sylvarii
    Originally posted by oreal52

    I would come back to DF if there was a PVE server for sure.I don't care about PVP and the meaningless gank-fests at all.

    I would love to explore the world and everything in the game without geting killed every 2 minutes by some high level mofo who can't find a better thing to do. I'm feeling lucky because the world is full of pve oriented games,so i will always have something to play even if its not DF.Whatever happens to DF :) i don't care :P

    Again,you want a vast open world to explore then come play Vanguard.

    What are you? The advertising rep for Vanguard? Maybe you should invest in some banner space rather than just posting in the forums.

    Nope my point is: if the op really wanted a PVE game that follows the same theme as DF but in PVE form then he would be playing that game instead of looking for it in a game like DF.

    Let DF be DF and look else where,Vanguard is the obvious choice if he really wants what he is asking for.

    Now,how does that answer grab ya.

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon ParisPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by CcDohl
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
    Originally posted by CcDohl
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
     

    In theory, sure, that could work. If we're talking hypotheticals, then sure.. I can concede that it might work. It's still not necessarily a good idea, and, in my opinion, not likely to be what they're interested in doing in the first place.

     

    So you admit that I'm right. Cool. Thanks.

    Nope you are not right.

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,593Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by snapfusion
    Originally posted by 123443211234
    NO Everything in Darkfall revolves around pvp and the ability to be killed at any time.  A pve only server would be an entirely different game.  Although the pve in Darkfall is better, harder, and more interesting than any other mmo I've ever played it will never come close to preparing someone for a pvp encounter.  (i.e. your get comfortable and transfer comment)

    NO really?  Why because you would be tempted to play on it?    Why in the hell do YOU care what people do with their own time? You dont like, dont play on it.

    DF needs more subs and more money than their full loot PvP servers could ever produce.  They need this revenue to bring REGULAR updates to the game.  Something we never saw in the original DF.

    A PvE / no loot PvP server for DFUW would quadruple their sub base the revenue base and the amount of conent.

    I suspect thats because people on a PvE server, wouldn't be available as victims for ganking and griefing. ^^ Thats the typical response pattern in these types of games. 

  • Pumuckl71Pumuckl71 istanbulPosts: 121Member
    Originally posted by ayronamic

    People who think of FFA full loot pvp as "meaningless gankfest" are representatives of the linear and spoiled crowd from themepark MMOs, where death has no risk and gear is the main form of progression - which is a counter to DF's vision. Fine, so you dont like how the original DF worked out, but at least you got plenty of themeparks out there with systems you like - let DUW stand out. Some gamers these days are too spoiled, but it is the other devs to blame as players are being spoon-fed, which also further removes their ability to be creative.

    If you could only open your eyes and discover the beauty of sandbox and the possibilities of risk.

    its not the game that turns it into gankfest , its the playerbase.

    I played  UO pre tram and after tram ....there were pk'S well known and feared and most important  RESPECTED

    because they mostly didnt behaive like total asshats and mentally challenged F...s.

    And tbh  the DF community sux big time ,its  the worst  of all the MMO's atm  , and i rather close my eyes walk by and say

    i dont wanna be part of that crap.

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member

    People who use words like "gankfest" should really refrain from discussing games like DF.

    People who keep arguing that AV would make a lot of money by pleasing PVE players obviously don't know anything about DF or AV's philosophy, making all "PVE server" arguments moot.

    People who say they "just want to explore an open world" in complete safety should play Vanguard.

    /thread

  • ScambugScambug TortugaPosts: 389Member

    Carebear, risk free MMOs are that way ---------->

    On a more serious note, I really don't understand why a PvE fan would even remotely be interested in this game. Everything in DF is about PvP, the devs themselves state very clearly they are PvP fans working on their dream game.

    They don't want massive sub numbers, they don't care about being main stream. All they want is to make a living by developping a game they'd want to play themselves.

This discussion has been closed.