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PvE server for darkfall UW?

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  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,028Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xpiher
    A PvE server would be pointless. Name one reason DFO would be fun to play PvE only? The entire core of the game is built around PvP. You would have to develope a completely different game to make PvE only viable. 

     

    Not really.   It would just mean there would strict limitations to the FFA aspects and PvP would be more like scheduled events.  

     

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member
    Originally posted by AwDiddums
    Originally posted by 123443211234

    Sorry to burst your bubble but DF1 did not fail it is stil going.  People that seem to want to change the ruleset of DF just don't get we aren't looking for millions of players not even hundreds of thousands just.....thousands of like minded individuals that want to play in a harsh environment where it takes actual skill to survive and thrive.

    We like our niche game, aren't looking to make bazillions of dollars just a ffa full loot niche game.

    I'm sure the games developers would disagree with you.

    What games company in their right mind would want to turn away money? 

     

     

    Apparently you don't know anything about AV. They didn't build the game for the masses. They built it for themselves. 

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    Originally posted by xpiher
    A PvE server would be pointless. Name one reason DFO would be fun to play PvE only? The entire core of the game is built around PvP. You would have to develope a completely different game to make PvE only viable. 

     

    Not really.   It would just mean there would strict limitations to the FFA aspects and PvP would be more like scheduled events.  

     

    The game isn't designed with PvE as a main focus. Too much stuff would have to change and be added (some of the added stuff needs to be in) to make it a viable PvE primary game. For instance, epics would need to be added to give people progression to keep them intrested in PvE. Sieges would have to be more limited and guild cities wouldn't be raidable, making them bastions of a single guild/alliance's means of remaining on top (resource control). 

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • Vunak23Vunak23 In your house eatin'' your cookies, FLPosts: 635Member

    PVE only just wouldn't work nor would I want a PVE only server in DF. Looks like the shoes on the other foot in this situation. When PvPers  beg for meaningful PvP and all we get is a "shutup PvP guy". Yea, now its our turn. 

    Shutup PvE guy™

    "In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  • itchmonitchmon west islip, NYPosts: 1,714Member Uncommon

    i would be up for different rulesets for a couple different servers, but, none of these rulesets should be a "legit" pve server.  it just runs contrary to what DF is sposed to be about. (it would be like lotro  offering a free for all pvp server; it doesnt fit with the fiction of the books that's why pvp is done by players choosing to be monster player characters)

     

    now what i would like to see is a "lighter pvp" server with major cities as truce zones etc.  (this would be like, in eve, how you cant be attacked while literally docked in a station)

     

    or a server where player alliances could sign non aggression pacts with one another, causing a binding agreement to not be able to pvp one another (like the opposite of a war declaration)

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

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  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,296Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xpiher
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by khameleon
    Originally posted by 123443211234

    Sorry to burst your bubble but DF1 did not fail it is stil going.  People that seem to want to change the ruleset of DF just don't get we aren't looking for millions of players not even hundreds of thousands just.....thousands of like minded individuals that want to play in a harsh environment where it takes actual skill to survive and thrive.

    We like our niche game, aren't looking to make bazillions of dollars just a ffa full loot niche game.

    Who are you? You are a developer of the game?

    DF1 was a fail, how they managed to keep it going despite having such low population is however, impressive. But im not entirely sure that it failed because it didnt have Pve areas, i do think though that having them would probably encourage more people to play the game, there are several things that need to be addressed though, and one of them is increasing the games security, as in the games code, the game was hacked too easily, and too often so much so that it became pretty much a standing joke. Then there is the necessity of afk skill grinding, where certain skills had to be increased to insane levels in order to compete with/against other players who were pretty much doing the exact same thing.  DF had a lot of potential but it never realised any of it, at the moment i don't see that DF;UW has even begun to address the issues that plagued DF1. So did DF1 fail.. utterly is the only way to describe it. image

    One of the main reasons they are releasing DFUW as a seperate game is because they had to entirely recode it. If they did it well, then the easily hacked problem goes away. They already solved the grind issue in DFO, and the tempoary  class system they are putting in DFUW will further reduce the grind (its a very simplistic load out system, even more so than EvE)

    If they have managed to do that, then it will be worth checking out, if they really have addressed these issues, then DF;UW could well turn out to be the game DF 1 should have been. I hope they have, there are too many 'mass market' games around, that are 'casual friendly' 'solo friendly' .. i'd almost say 'idiot friendly' but thats probably not very PC image 

    .. if they deliver, then the players will come, if they don't deliver, they'll probably still come, but they won't stay very long, players are sods like that, no patience image

  • Wizlock23Wizlock23 Tucson, AZPosts: 107Member
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    Originally posted by xpiher
    A PvE server would be pointless. Name one reason DFO would be fun to play PvE only? The entire core of the game is built around PvP. You would have to develope a completely different game to make PvE only viable. 

     

    Not really.   It would just mean there would strict limitations to the FFA aspects and PvP would be more like scheduled events.  

     

    Great idea... or all the people wanting pve could just click the link at the top of this page that says GAME LIST ---and pick any other game other then darkfall and u can have PVE - easy enough -. PVE servers will not work in DF , the end . We play this game FOR PVP .. changing it so its easier for u to learn or like would just be making this game into another game u all can complain " is this the wow killer"  and then " this game failed and blizzard is back on top because ...."

     

     seriously if anyone wants PVE ur wasting ur time on posting in this section

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,028Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xpiher

    The game isn't designed with PvE as a main focus. Too much stuff would have to change and be added (some of the added stuff needs to be in) to make it a viable PvE primary game. For instance, epics would need to be added to give people progression to keep them intrested in PvE. Sieges would have to be more limited and guild cities wouldn't be raidable, making them bastions of a single guild/alliance's means of remaining on top (resource control). 

     

    When is expansions a PvE only feature of MMOs?   Are you seriously trying to argue that a PvP focused MMO could survive on bug fixes alone? 

     

    I can see your reasoning that a PvE server wouldn't work, because your definition of a PvE server is one that emulates WOW.  On the other hand,  I envision a PvE server for DF to be one that is very similar to a PvP server, but with considerable restrictions on FFA, full loot, and sieges. 

     

  • dooneydooney MandurahPosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by Yalexy

    And that's exactly the reason why DF:UW will fail the same way as DF1.

    This seems to come up alot. If you think DF:UW is going to fail then don't bother playing it, its obviously not for you. If you're going to cry about PvP then the game isn't for you, so move on. I don't know why you peope come here spouting that the game is going to fail because the game isn't for you. I hate WoW and Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 but you don't see me in their forums crying about how bad their games are.

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member
    The PVE Server is planned for the next patch, which will be titled Darkfall: Holy Battles, and will come with the Darkfall standard full game price and character wipe.

    El Psy Congroo

  • indefindef Thousand Oaks, CAPosts: 344Member Uncommon

    absolutely NOT!!!!

    A PvE server in Darkfall is the equivalent of saying there should be a basketball league where there is no ball...

    ...a UFC league with no fighting...

    ...an FPS with no guns...

    you get the idea.

     

  • LawlmonsterLawlmonster Dallas, TXPosts: 954Member Uncommon
    I wouldn't personally be bothered by a PvE only server for Darkfall, but as others have mentioned it probably wouldn't work on systematic and mechanical levels. With further expanded tools for building, loot randomization or item crafting, and skill customization I wouldn't mind playing a single player model of the game, though I do feel the atmosphere is more exciting or dangerous when player conflict is involved.

    "This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  • IAmMMOIAmMMO LondonPosts: 1,333Member Uncommon
    Nope you have to waste your time on gathering resources so you can be farmed by other players using their autohotkey macros and lag swtiches.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,084Member Uncommon

    One of the things that AV have done very well is to work within their budget and manage their resources - compared to EA and Activision AV are a tiny, tiny company. Sure they upset a lot of people on day 1 when they only opened 1 server adding additional capacity incrementally as the game sold. (It is a server farm, EVE style, albeit on a much smaller scale). 

    And the careful approach worked. DF1 has been "a success". Sure it hasn't sold millions of copies but financially it is a success; it is still going; it has managed a 100% increase in the number of servers (!) and has now spawned DF:UW. Perfect - pfft there are all sorts of "fails" people can talk about. In the niche it is in it has delivered and continues to do so. 

     

    Now if AV had opened a PvE server the game would doubtless have sold more copies initially - but it would have sold more copies if it had opened 2 servers on day 1. But sticking to PvE - and ignoring complaints about ,not being able to buy the game and / or queues how long would it have taken for people to complain about the lack of new content? That they had hit max. skill (!!!) and there were no challenges in the game, they were bored, they needed new quests, new missions, new rewards, high end content etc? To ask (rightly) why they were paying a sub. And then of course complain about an empty server and suggest the game went F2P. Remember DF is not designed as a PvE game, what dungeons there are are extras.

    DF:UW will be no different.

     

    DarkFall is a niche product; its competitors are games like Mortal Online. The prospect of PvE servers and millions of extra subscribers is always tempting .... but the corpses of many PvE games provide a stark warning. I can't see it happening - ever.

    That said what AV might - at some point - be able to do is repackage DF1 as a B2P PvE single player game that people could download and run on their PC - thereby leveraging their investment. It is somewhat ironic that the AI is some of the best there is out there!  

     

    There was a minority view that Mythic should never have created Shrouded Isles - the first DAoC expansion. It was hailed as a (PvE) success and new players came into the game as Mythic by their own admission attempted to emulate EQ1 but a lot of "dedicated" PvPer's left. And in the end Mythic were unable to generate enough PvE content to keep the players happy. They left their niche and paid the penalty.

    And whilst people talk about how Asheron's Call managed to have both PvE and PvP it was launched in a different age; there was uO, EQ1 and AC. That was basically it as far as online mmo's went.

  • OnigodOnigod Noord-HollandPosts: 688Member

    NO.. IT WILL NEVER EVER HAPPEN.

     

    stop with these topics already... Just dont play this game and find something you do like.

  • OnigodOnigod Noord-HollandPosts: 688Member
    Originally posted by gervaise1

    It is somewhat ironic that the AI is some of the best there is out there!  

     

    This also made me wonder many times..  There are loads of things in darkfall 1 that just make you go mehhh  But you sure are fighting something that seems to have a brain, the mobs really want to survive. 

     

    Why other games still have the mobs standing infront of you almost holding a sign saying "I am waiting to be killed and wont do anything to stop you" makes me wonder.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,538Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by googie23
    its a great way to bring alot of new players into the darkfall world and when they are ready they can  come to the PvP server and start a new character. never make an option to transfer from PvE to PvP.

    If you dont like Mexican food, dont go to a Mexican restaurant and ask them to make you spaghetti.

     

    There are a 1000 carebear games out there, why do you people insist on trying to change the few PVP ones?

    Because the idea of a game existing that doesn't cater specifically to "them" pisses a lot of people off, regardless of how many other games do.

    Because the idea that others might enjoy something they don't might shake their confidence that their preferences are "the right ones". This is why you see people citing numbers or popularity of a given playstyle so much. "More people agree with me, so I'm right and you're wrong. So there!".

    It's the whole "stop liking what I don't like" mindest in action.

    That someone enjoys a game and finds it worth their time and money should be all the justification they need. For many, sadly, it isn't.

    People who enjoy FFA PvP should absolutely have a game - even several - that they can play and enjoy. People who are "offended" by the idea just need to suck it up and go play a game they enjoy.

    If you're looking for a great steak, you don't go to a Vegan restaurant. You go to a steakhouse. if you're looking for a solid PvE experience, you go to a PvE-centric MMO, not a FFA PvP one.

    I'd like to see Darkfall: Unholy Wars succeed and wish AV all the best in pulling it off. I'd like to see Mortal Online somehow turn it around and succeed. I like that Eve Online is out there, alive and kickin' all these years later. There are people who enjoy those games, and it's great that they have those options.  It doesn't have to be "Darkfall or Mortal or Eve". There should be plenty of room for everyone.

     

     

  • CcDohlCcDohl Atlanta, GAPosts: 65Member
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by googie23
    its a great way to bring alot of new players into the darkfall world and when they are ready they can  come to the PvP server and start a new character. never make an option to transfer from PvE to PvP.

    If you dont like Mexican food, dont go to a Mexican restaurant and ask them to make you spaghetti.

     

    There are a 1000 carebear games out there, why do you people insist on trying to change the few PVP ones?

    Because the idea of a game existing that doesn't cater specifically to "them" pisses a lot of people off, regardless of how many other games do.

    Because the idea that others might enjoy something they don't might shake their confidence that their preferences are "the right ones". This is why you see people citing numbers or popularity of a given playstyle so much. "More people agree with me, so I'm right and you're wrong. So there!".

    It's the whole "stop liking what I don't like" mindest in action.

    That someone enjoys a game and finds it worth their time and money should be all the justification they need. For many, sadly, it isn't.

    People who enjoy FFA PvP should absolutely have a game - even several - that they can play and enjoy. People who are "offended" by the idea just need to suck it up and go play a game they enjoy.

    If you're looking for a great steak, you don't go to a Vegan restaurant. You go to a steakhouse. if you're looking for a solid PvE experience, you go to a PvE-centric MMO, not a FFA PvP one.

    I'd like to see Darkfall: Unholy Wars succeed and wish AV all the best in pulling it off. I'd like to see Mortal Online somehow turn it around and succeed. I like that Eve Online is out there, alive and kickin' all these years later. There are people who enjoy those games, and it's great that they have those options.  It doesn't have to be "Darkfall or Mortal or Eve". There should be plenty of room for everyone.

     

     

    I still don't see the problem with a PVE server though. Assuming that the server is separate, with zero chance for crossover characters, and assuming that it makes money and brings more people to the games, it wouldn't harm any aspect of the currently existing game, and could work to improve it with the money that comes in from the new subscribers.

    The only way a PVE server could be a negative is if it fails to bring enough people to support itself. That could affect the quality of the game, but the existance of the PVE server itself  has zero effect on a pvp player's experience.

  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by CcDohl
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by googie23
    its a great way to bring alot of new players into the darkfall world and when they are ready they can  come to the PvP server and start a new character. never make an option to transfer from PvE to PvP.

    If you dont like Mexican food, dont go to a Mexican restaurant and ask them to make you spaghetti.

     

    There are a 1000 carebear games out there, why do you people insist on trying to change the few PVP ones?

    Because the idea of a game existing that doesn't cater specifically to "them" pisses a lot of people off, regardless of how many other games do.

    Because the idea that others might enjoy something they don't might shake their confidence that their preferences are "the right ones". This is why you see people citing numbers or popularity of a given playstyle so much. "More people agree with me, so I'm right and you're wrong. So there!".

    It's the whole "stop liking what I don't like" mindest in action.

    That someone enjoys a game and finds it worth their time and money should be all the justification they need. For many, sadly, it isn't.

    People who enjoy FFA PvP should absolutely have a game - even several - that they can play and enjoy. People who are "offended" by the idea just need to suck it up and go play a game they enjoy.

    If you're looking for a great steak, you don't go to a Vegan restaurant. You go to a steakhouse. if you're looking for a solid PvE experience, you go to a PvE-centric MMO, not a FFA PvP one.

    I'd like to see Darkfall: Unholy Wars succeed and wish AV all the best in pulling it off. I'd like to see Mortal Online somehow turn it around and succeed. I like that Eve Online is out there, alive and kickin' all these years later. There are people who enjoy those games, and it's great that they have those options.  It doesn't have to be "Darkfall or Mortal or Eve". There should be plenty of room for everyone.

     

     

    I still don't see the problem with a PVE server though. Assuming that the server is separate, with zero chance for crossover characters, and assuming that it makes money and brings more people to the games, it wouldn't harm any aspect of the currently existing game, and could work to improve it with the money that comes in from the new subscribers.

    The only way a PVE server could be a negative is if it fails to bring enough people to support itself. That could affect the quality of the game, but the existance of the PVE server itself  has zero effect on a pvp player's experience.

     Seperate ruleset servers would eat into AVs limited resoucres, id rather AV focus on DF-UW as
    envisioned ! A PVE server would require additional coding, its own patches ,ect...

     

    If they dont like DF for what it is, move on.  Its really that simple!

     

  • 123443211234123443211234 seattle, WAPosts: 244Member
    Originally posted by CcDohl
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by googie23
    its a great way to bring alot of new players into the darkfall world and when they are ready they can  come to the PvP server and start a new character. never make an option to transfer from PvE to PvP.

    If you dont like Mexican food, dont go to a Mexican restaurant and ask them to make you spaghetti.

     

    There are a 1000 carebear games out there, why do you people insist on trying to change the few PVP ones?

    Because the idea of a game existing that doesn't cater specifically to "them" pisses a lot of people off, regardless of how many other games do.

    Because the idea that others might enjoy something they don't might shake their confidence that their preferences are "the right ones". This is why you see people citing numbers or popularity of a given playstyle so much. "More people agree with me, so I'm right and you're wrong. So there!".

    It's the whole "stop liking what I don't like" mindest in action.

    That someone enjoys a game and finds it worth their time and money should be all the justification they need. For many, sadly, it isn't.

    People who enjoy FFA PvP should absolutely have a game - even several - that they can play and enjoy. People who are "offended" by the idea just need to suck it up and go play a game they enjoy.

    If you're looking for a great steak, you don't go to a Vegan restaurant. You go to a steakhouse. if you're looking for a solid PvE experience, you go to a PvE-centric MMO, not a FFA PvP one.

    I'd like to see Darkfall: Unholy Wars succeed and wish AV all the best in pulling it off. I'd like to see Mortal Online somehow turn it around and succeed. I like that Eve Online is out there, alive and kickin' all these years later. There are people who enjoy those games, and it's great that they have those options.  It doesn't have to be "Darkfall or Mortal or Eve". There should be plenty of room for everyone.

     

     

    I still don't see the problem with a PVE server though. Assuming that the server is separate, with zero chance for crossover characters, and assuming that it makes money and brings more people to the games, it wouldn't harm any aspect of the currently existing game, and could work to improve it with the money that comes in from the new subscribers.

    The only way a PVE server could be a negative is if it fails to bring enough people to support itself. That could affect the quality of the game, but the existance of the PVE server itself  has zero effect on a pvp player's experience.

    There are several problems which have been discussed in detail apparently you people pushing for a PVE server lack reading comprehension.  Here are the top three reasons:

     

    1. Core mechanics of DF are ffa pvp THE ENTIRE GAME IS DESIGNED AROUND PVP.  (I know its hard for you carebears to imagine but DF is designed around conflict, they would have to change the entire game to make a pve server.

     

    2. Aventurine is a very very small company, they do not have the resources to cater to pve players.  (It would take a great deal of time and effort to maintain a pve server, thus taking away from their ability to maintain the pvp server, thus ruining the game)

     

    3.Aventurine is making a game that THEY WANT TO PLAY.  This means they do not care about millions of subs and world wide fame, they care about.....making a game they want to play.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,538Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CcDohl
     

    I still don't see the problem with a PVE server though. Assuming that the server is separate, with zero chance for crossover characters, and assuming that it makes money and brings more people to the games, it wouldn't harm any aspect of the currently existing game, and could work to improve it with the money that comes in from the new subscribers.

    The only way a PVE server could be a negative is if it fails to bring enough people to support itself. That could affect the quality of the game, but the existance of the PVE server itself  has zero effect on a pvp player's experience.

    Saying you "don't see what the problem is" is not a compelling point. It's an argument from incredulity. You have no idea what circumstances are or what parameters they are working within. No one here does (unless they're secretly an AV employee of course :-p)

    I don't know the specific reasons why AV wouldn't want to add a PvE server, but I think I can make a pretty good guess..

    Because a PvE game isn't what they're interested in making. Aventurine was created with the specific goal of creating a sandboxy, very "Wild West" style, open world MMORPG with FFA World PvP, in the spirit of old Ultima Online.

    That's really the only reason they need.

    They knew when they were making DF1 that they were catering to a niche audience. They know as they're developing DF:UW that they're still catering to a niche audience. They're not doing this blind. I'm sure they're well aware of the "greater population" of people who prefer PvE gameplay. Yet they continue creating a MMO based around FFA PvP. That tells me that they have a very firm idea of the kind of game they want to make, the kind of experience they want it to be, and the kind of people they want to cater to. It's quite clearly not people who prefer PvE or consensual, no-risk PvP.

    And that's pretty much all that needs to be said.

     

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,594Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yalexy

     


    Originally posted by graffix_75

    Originally posted by Yalexy  

    Originally posted by 123443211234 NO Everything in Darkfall revolves around pvp and the ability to be killed at any time.  A pve only server would be an entirely different game.  Although the pve in Darkfall is better, harder, and more interesting than any other mmo I've ever played it will never come close to preparing someone for a pvp encounter.  (i.e. your get comfortable and transfer comment)
      And that's exactly the reason why DF:UW will fail the same way as DF1. A meaningless gankfest with FPS-combat.... I'd rather play any other FPS where there's no monthly subscription.
    Exactly right, Planetside 2 is a good example of a subless MMOFPS.

     

    I know a ton of people that quit DF purely on the basis of the PvP mechanics, even an Eve online type system would work.


     

    Firefall would be another one :)

    True, and a very good one at that. If it ever gets out of beta <grin> 

  • Pumuckl71Pumuckl71 istanbulPosts: 121Member

    oh boy  how a  simple question  calls  some ppl  to verbal arms .

    I remember when the time, when YOU  hailed  DF as the best MMO xpririence  "EVAH"

    "                                               " when you went berserk bout  the eurogamer review and

                                                       showed protest   by declaring war

                                                       altogether on eurogamer

    "                                               " the Tasos dude did the same but even more like a 4 yeart old

    ":                                               "  when the same community that praised the game called it 4

                                                         month later  unfinished  and hated the guts of the Tasos guy

     

    Now a guy pops up asking a simple question  and you redicule him , as if  DF is the mother of sandboxes .If DF is anything ..then its mindless  grind into oblivion  and a collective hive for gankers  , inluding the worst community ive ever witnessed  in an MMO

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon ParisPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by googie23
    its a great way to bring alot of new players into the darkfall world and when they are ready they can come to the PvP server and start a new character. never make an option to transfer from PvE to PvP.

    Why not just play Vanguard,it has an open non instanced world and has many sandbox features but it's an PVE game.

     

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member
    Why can't you people give up already? DF will never have a PVE server, live with or play some other game. You only have 1000000000000 titles to chose from...
This discussion has been closed.