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Mass Exodus for MoP... or not?

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  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,275Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Stx11
    Originally posted by bcbully

    When it comes to depth of core game play and character development GW2 can't hold a candle to WoW, or any of the other mmos released in the past 3 years when it comes to character development specifically.

    I'm willing to tolerate and ignore most of your drivel but this is just over-the-top unmitigated BS.

    For someone who thought that picking 7 Abilities that synergize from a giant list of useless crap on the wheel was "amazingly complex" maybe the problem with GW2 is Trait Selection is just too complicated for you?

    WoW Talent Builds became mind-numbingly more easy with each expansion and to say that MoP's "everybody's the same except for 6 flavors of Talents" is somehow rich, superior, or deeper than the myriad of ways I can Trait out every single Profession in GW2 for a multitude of playstyles is... well asinine is the most polite term I can think of.

    I know you hate GW2. I'm not completely sure why. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But damn man, do you have to keep looking so stupid when you choose to share it? Rotations aren't deeper gameplay than actually reading and reacting and maneuvering. Choosing 6 "Flavors" of Talents isn't even close to the depth provided by Traits, Weapons, and Skills. Whether you like it or not is preference. But objectively the core game systems aren't even close.

    14 (now 15) out of 525 any combination you want. I perfer that of GW2's system where your septer will do the same 3 spells forever, and your axe will do the same three spells forever, and you horn will do the same 2 spells fore ever, and your staff will do the same 5 spells FOREVER.

     

    Cata and the 31 point tress was a step in the wroong direction. Part of the reason why I quit. Still and even now your looking at about 160 abilities across 3 specs, vs GW2's 50, that only 15 can be used at one time. (minus the water stuff). GW's biggest issue is that there is just not enough customization. Traits (passives) are cool, but the main ability system needs to be much more. Hell even Aerowyn agreed with my suggestion of having more main abilities which you can slot like the utilities. Yeah so what if she/he tried to use my suggestion and not give me credit ;) 

     

    I LOVED GW2 for 3 1/2 weeks. WvW was the shit, and I posted as such, but with about 200 hours played the game became mind numbingly simple and WvW turned into a pointless zerg v gate gold sink. 

     

    I strongly disliked some of the fundamental design before I played, I posted about it. I was blown away for three weeks when I did play, I posted about it. I lost all intrest at 52 with nothing to look forwad to, I'm posting why and giving suggestions for improvement.

     

    Again GW2 is the most casual game on the market. If that's what you want, you'll love it. If you want more, you'll probably put it down within a month the way things stand.

     

     

    BC 9/26

    "Two steps to improve combat.

    1. What if each of those weapons had 10 (20 would be awesome, but yeah..) abilities (instead of 2 or 3...) and you could slot which abilities you like for that weapon. 

    2. Combo fieds, have different abilities trigger different active effects, not just meh buffs and debuffs. Like this, whirl A does Y in combo field Z. Whirl B does X in combo field Z. Instead of  A,B,C,D,E doing Y in combo field Z."

     

    Aero 9/28

    "GW2 has plenty of actual skills my only gripe is I would like some sort of system like the utility skill system for the weapon skills.. It would be nice to be able to swap out differn't individual skills on weapons. Hopefully this is something they will add in the future"

  • Stx11Stx11 West Hills, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Stx11
    Originally posted by bcbully

    When it comes to depth of core game play and character development GW2 can't hold a candle to WoW, or any of the other mmos released in the past 3 years when it comes to character development specifically.

    I'm willing to tolerate and ignore most of your drivel but this is just over-the-top unmitigated BS.

    For someone who thought that picking 7 Abilities that synergize from a giant list of useless crap on the wheel was "amazingly complex" maybe the problem with GW2 is Trait Selection is just too complicated for you?

    WoW Talent Builds became mind-numbingly more easy with each expansion and to say that MoP's "everybody's the same except for 6 flavors of Talents" is somehow rich, superior, or deeper than the myriad of ways I can Trait out every single Profession in GW2 for a multitude of playstyles is... well asinine is the most polite term I can think of.

    I know you hate GW2. I'm not completely sure why. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But damn man, do you have to keep looking so stupid when you choose to share it? Rotations aren't deeper gameplay than actually reading and reacting and maneuvering. Choosing 6 "Flavors" of Talents isn't even close to the depth provided by Traits, Weapons, and Skills. Whether you like it or not is preference. But objectively the core game systems aren't even close.

    14 (now 15) out of 525 any combination you want. I perfer that of GW2's system where your septer will do the same 3 spells forever, and your axe will do the same three spells forever, and you horn will do the same 2 spells fore ever, and your staff will do the same 5 spells FOREVER...

    GW's biggest issue is that there is just not enough customization. Traits (passives) are cool, but the main ability system needs to be much more. Hell even Aerowyn agreed with my suggestion of having more main abilities which you can slot like the utilities. Yeah so what if she/he tried to use my suggestion and not give me credit ;) 

    (most of which combinations suck - you know that TSW suffers from FOTMitis much worse than GW2, although I'll grant you it is a much more interesting system than what WoW is rolling these days)

    Beyond that, you are aware that many Major Traits actually modify underlying Abilities right? And that these modifications can radically alter how your character plays?

    I Trait my Warrior with Quick Breathing (Tactics IX) and my Warhorn Abilities now each convert a Condition to a Boon changing how the abilities function. Add Inspiring Battle Standard (Tactics XI) and my Banners now grant Regeneration changing how the abilities function.

    Between Weapon Choice, Skill Selection, and Traits you can pull off almost any build combination in GW2 to match up to WoW's current specs (having to substitute Control/Survival for "Tank" and Support for "Heals). Like Demonology?  Focus on Minions or a Death Shroud boosting build. Affliction? Build for Conditions. Destruction? Focus on Power and Burst. Of course there's no way for your Warlock to take up a Support role in WoW so the converse isn't exactly true.

    I still don't know where you are pulling that "160 Abilities across 3 Specs" from since most all Warlock abilities are shared across Specs and you were counting all the Passives and Pet Passives while not counting any of the Major or Minor GW2 Traits in your comparison.

    And regardless, neither WoW nor TSW have you using more than 3-5 abilities most of the time in DPS rotations. TSW Builds Vs GW2 Weapons is personal preference but this idea that WoW is so much deeper because you have Water Breathing taking up a space on your bar?

    Please... you can do better than that.

  • KareliaKarelia HeraklionPosts: 668Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Stx11
    Originally posted by bcbully

    When it comes to depth of core game play and character development GW2 can't hold a candle to WoW, or any of the other mmos released in the past 3 years when it comes to character development specifically.

    I'm willing to tolerate and ignore most of your drivel but this is just over-the-top unmitigated BS.

    For someone who thought that picking 7 Abilities that synergize from a giant list of useless crap on the wheel was "amazingly complex" maybe the problem with GW2 is Trait Selection is just too complicated for you?

    WoW Talent Builds became mind-numbingly more easy with each expansion and to say that MoP's "everybody's the same except for 6 flavors of Talents" is somehow rich, superior, or deeper than the myriad of ways I can Trait out every single Profession in GW2 for a multitude of playstyles is... well asinine is the most polite term I can think of.

    I know you hate GW2. I'm not completely sure why. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But damn man, do you have to keep looking so stupid when you choose to share it? Rotations aren't deeper gameplay than actually reading and reacting and maneuvering. Choosing 6 "Flavors" of Talents isn't even close to the depth provided by Traits, Weapons, and Skills. Whether you like it or not is preference. But objectively the core game systems aren't even close.

    14 (now 15) out of 525 any combination you want. I perfer that of GW2's system where your septer will do the same 3 spells forever, and your axe will do the same three spells forever, and you horn will do the same 2 spells fore ever, and your staff will do the same 5 spells FOREVER.

     

    Cata and the 31 point tress was a step in the wroong direction. Part of the reason why I quit. Still and even now your looking at about 160 abilities across 3 specs, vs GW2's 50, that only 15 can be used at one time. (minus the water stuff). GW's biggest issue is that there is just not enough customization. Traits (passives) are cool, but the main ability system needs to be much more. Hell even Aerowyn agreed with my suggestion of having more main abilities which you can slot like the utilities. Yeah so what if she/he tried to use my suggestion and not give me credit ;) 

     

    I LOVED GW2 for 3 1/2 weeks. WvW was the shit, and I posted as such, but with about 200 hours played the game became mind numbingly simple and WvW turned into a pointless zerg v gate gold sink. 

     

    I strongly disliked some of the fundamental design before I played, I posted about it. I was blown away for three weeks when I did play, I posted about it. I lost all intrest at 52 with nothing to look forwad to, I'm posting why and giving suggestions for improvement.

     

    Again GW2 is the most casual game on the market. If that's what you want, you'll love it. If you want more, you'll probably put it down within a month the way things stand.

     

     

    BC 9/26

    "Two steps to improve combat.

    1. What if each of those weapons had 10 (20 would be awesome, but yeah..) abilities (instead of 2 or 3...) and you could slot which abilities you like for that weapon. 

    2. Combo fieds, have different abilities trigger different active effects, not just meh buffs and debuffs. Like this, whirl A does Y in combo field Z. Whirl B does X in combo field Z. Instead of  A,B,C,D,E doing Y in combo field Z."

     

    Aero 9/28

    "GW2 has plenty of actual skills my only gripe is I would like some sort of system like the utility skill system for the weapon skills.. It would be nice to be able to swap out differn't individual skills on weapons. Hopefully this is something they will add in the future"

    this

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,275Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Stx11
     

     

    I still don't know where you are pulling that "160 Abilities across 3 Specs" from since most all Warlock abilities are shared across Specs and you were counting all the Passives and Pet Passives while not counting any of the Major or Minor GW2 Traits in your comparison.

     

    I counted yesterday, My bad there are 139 for a warlock across all 3 specs.

    http://www.wowhead.com/class=9#abilities

  • Stx11Stx11 West Hills, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Stx11

    I still don't know where you are pulling that "160 Abilities across 3 Specs" from since most all Warlock abilities are shared across Specs and you were counting all the Passives and Pet Passives while not counting any of the Major or Minor GW2 Traits in your comparison.

    I counted yesterday, My bad there are 139 for a warlock across all 3 specs.

    http://www.wowhead.com/class=9#abilities

    So once again playing your way, counting all Passives and Talents let's compare (and we'll just choose Necromancer because Warrior just wouldn't be fair to you):

    Weapon Skills: 21 Main/Off-Hand (not counting Underwater)

    Heals: 3 (won't count the Human Racial)

    Utilities: 20 (once again not counting Racials)

    Elites: 3 (not including racials again)

    Minor Traits: 15

    Major Traits: 60(!!!!)

    So 21+3+20+15+60= 119 "Abilitites" (as you define them - I won't even pick on you for Corruption and Rain of Fire being doubled in the lists)... yeah 139 is more than 119 for sure. It's the difference between "omgzmazing depthz!!!" and "shallow" without a doubt...

    Well, at least it does if you don't have an agenda or heavy bias >.>

    (EDIT: I'll also give you a free pass on me not counting Downed State or Deathshroud Abilities in the GW2 Total... even though they are Profession-Specific)

     

  • stratasaurusstratasaurus Seattle, WAPosts: 220Member
    This thread is about 200 posts past being on topic.
  • YakkinYakkin irvine, CAPosts: 919Member
    Originally posted by Stx11
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Stx11

    I still don't know where you are pulling that "160 Abilities across 3 Specs" from since most all Warlock abilities are shared across Specs and you were counting all the Passives and Pet Passives while not counting any of the Major or Minor GW2 Traits in your comparison.

    I counted yesterday, My bad there are 139 for a warlock across all 3 specs.

    http://www.wowhead.com/class=9#abilities

    So once again playing your way, counting all Passives and Talents let's compare (and we'll just choose Necromancer because Warrior just wouldn't be fair to you):

    Weapon Skills: 21 Main/Off-Hand (not counting Underwater)

    Heals: 3 (won't count the Human Racial)

    Utilities: 20 (once again not counting Racials)

    Elites: 3 (not including racials again)

    Minor Traits: 15

    Major Traits: 60(!!!!)

    So 21+3+20+15+60= 119 "Abilitites" (as you define them - I won't even pick on you for Corruption and Rain of Fire being doubled in the lists)... yeah 139 is more than 119 for sure. It's the difference between "omgzmazing depthz!!!" and "shallow" without a doubt...

    Well, at least it does if you don't have an agenda or heavy bias >.>

     

    I think I've said this before, but having a shitload of abilties doesn't automatically make something deeper.

    This is especially the case when you take into consideration that many abilties in WoW tend to overlap in terms of what they do. Take the spells Wrath, Starfire, and Starsurge. These are the most common spells I remember using on my Balance Druid (Pre MoP, I don't know what's changed since I'm not playing WoW anymore). They all have different cast times and cooldowns, but when it comes down to it, they all only do one thing: flat damage.

    I would say a lot more than this, but I've lost my train of thought, so I'll be back to finish this post when I remember what it is I was going to say.

  • Stx11Stx11 West Hills, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by stratasaurus
    This thread is about 200 posts past being on topic.

    That's because the OP has been confirmed - there was no "mass exodus" of players to MoP.

    The GW2 Servers are well-populated and GW2 is back to #2 and #7 on Amazon's Bestsellers List (#2 only to EVE for $5) while MoP has already fallen to #6 and is trending down.

    X-Fire isn't going to pick up many of the new people who just got the game but even there while hours are down there was no huge drop in players when MoP came out.

    So instead Bully and I are having a fun discussion on Abilities... enjoy or skip as you prefer!

  • Stx11Stx11 West Hills, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by Enigmatus

    I think I've said this before, but having a shitload of abilties doesn't automatically make something deeper.

    This is especially the case when you take into consideration that many abilties in WoW tend to overlap in terms of what they do. Take the spells Wrath, Starfire, and Starsurge. These are the most common spells I remember using on my Balance Druid (Pre MoP, I don't know what's changed since I'm not playing WoW anymore). They all have different cast times and cooldowns, but when it comes down to it, they all only do one thing: flat damage.

    I would say a lot more than this, but I've lost my train of thought, so I'll be back to finish this post when I remember what it is I was going to say.

    I'll chip in!

    The Abilities and Builds in GW2 offer a lot of depth and diversity in strategy and how they impact playstyle. Each Weapon and Utility Skill tends to have a unique and situational purpose beyond "direct damage" - they can spread or clear Conditions, Boon allies, grant Protection and they often synergize with each other in a good Build enhancing your play experience with skilled play.

    Most GW2 Abilities do "double or triple duty" compared to WoW abilities - damage+condition+boon for example, and the best Builds for PvP or Dungeons require a lot more utility than WoW DPS specs.

    People who have only spent their time following Zergs in Open World PvE or WvW without diving into all that Builds have to offer are missing out on a lot of depth. It is definitely there for the people who want it.

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member

    Just as an update -

     

     

    imageimage

     

    Wonder how we'll look in a week; seems to have weathered MoP very well.

  • caetftlcaetftl Los Angeles, CAPosts: 358Member
    They actually lowered the player requirement for server readouts btw... you can check yourself, some servers are legitimately full, others list full when they are ghost towns at 3am in the morning.

    I imagine they did this to show the game is holding strong.
  • YakkinYakkin irvine, CAPosts: 919Member
    Originally posted by caetftl
    They actually lowered the player requirement for server readouts btw... you can check yourself, some servers are legitimately full, others list full when they are ghost towns at 3am in the morning. I imagine they did this to show the game is holding strong.

    WHO PLAYS AT 3 AM IN THE MORNING!?

  • KingJigglyKingJiggly Simpsonville, SCPosts: 777Member
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by caetftl
    They actually lowered the player requirement for server readouts btw... you can check yourself, some servers are legitimately full, others list full when they are ghost towns at 3am in the morning. I imagine they did this to show the game is holding strong.

    WHO PLAYS AT 3 AM IN THE MORNING!?

    I just did. But I am a teen and have no school on weekends ;)

  • YakkinYakkin irvine, CAPosts: 919Member
    Originally posted by KingJiggly
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by caetftl
    They actually lowered the player requirement for server readouts btw... you can check yourself, some servers are legitimately full, others list full when they are ghost towns at 3am in the morning. I imagine they did this to show the game is holding strong.

    WHO PLAYS AT 3 AM IN THE MORNING!?

    I just did. But I am a teen and have no school on weekends ;)

    Well I think you understand the base point I'm making: Who exactly would be playing at a time when most people are either asleep or about to go to sleep?

  • KingJigglyKingJiggly Simpsonville, SCPosts: 777Member
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by KingJiggly
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by caetftl
    They actually lowered the player requirement for server readouts btw... you can check yourself, some servers are legitimately full, others list full when they are ghost towns at 3am in the morning. I imagine they did this to show the game is holding strong.

    WHO PLAYS AT 3 AM IN THE MORNING!?

    I just did. But I am a teen and have no school on weekends ;)

    Well I think you understand the base point I'm making: Who exactly would be playing at a time when most people are either asleep or about to go to sleep?

    You know there are other time zones, right? So it is completely possible the population are that high. I mean look at the people complaining about night capping in wvw. Obviously there have to be a lot of people to nightcap to take the entire world. Come on people! Think! Even I a 16 year old can figure this out.

    Edit: contrary to popular belief, the world is not flat.

  • YakkinYakkin irvine, CAPosts: 919Member
    Originally posted by KingJiggly
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by KingJiggly
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by caetftl
    They actually lowered the player requirement for server readouts btw... you can check yourself, some servers are legitimately full, others list full when they are ghost towns at 3am in the morning. I imagine they did this to show the game is holding strong.

    WHO PLAYS AT 3 AM IN THE MORNING!?

    I just did. But I am a teen and have no school on weekends ;)

    Well I think you understand the base point I'm making: Who exactly would be playing at a time when most people are either asleep or about to go to sleep?

    You know there are other time zones, right? So it is completely possible the population are that high. I mean look at the people complaining about night capping in wvw. Obviously there have to be a lot of people to nightcap to take the entire world. Come on people! Think! Even I a 16 year old can figure this out.

    Edit: contrary to popular belief, the world is not flat.

    Point taken. I'm drowsy, it's 1:30 AM here.

  • KingJigglyKingJiggly Simpsonville, SCPosts: 777Member
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by KingJiggly
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by KingJiggly
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by caetftl
    They actually lowered the player requirement for server readouts btw... you can check yourself, some servers are legitimately full, others list full when they are ghost towns at 3am in the morning. I imagine they did this to show the game is holding strong.

    WHO PLAYS AT 3 AM IN THE MORNING!?

    I just did. But I am a teen and have no school on weekends ;)

    Well I think you understand the base point I'm making: Who exactly would be playing at a time when most people are either asleep or about to go to sleep?

    You know there are other time zones, right? So it is completely possible the population are that high. I mean look at the people complaining about night capping in wvw. Obviously there have to be a lot of people to nightcap to take the entire world. Come on people! Think! Even I a 16 year old can figure this out.

    Edit: contrary to popular belief, the world is not flat.

    Point taken. I'm drowsy, it's 1:30 AM here.

    4:34 AM here

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member
    They raised not lowered sir. Follow the news.
  • SukiyakiSukiyaki GreenwichPosts: 1,398Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by caetftl
    They actually lowered the player requirement for server readouts btw... you can check yourself, some servers are legitimately full, others list full when they are ghost towns at 3am in the morning. I imagine they did this to show the game is holding strong.

    Yes, they lowered the rating requirements. At least twice readjustments have been noticed (but likely more smaller steps have been used) before Cataclysm to avoid an obvious jump of too many server flags at once. Its not some sort of new scheme. Blizzard always readjusts the ratings based on average population of a region. Thats why regions like Korea had like 20% of their server flagged as high and then suddenly announce they are going to merge down almost 1/3 of their server, because the rest was dead and the high ones just morderately populated.

    In other words "high" in WoW just means "high" compared to other server. Not compared to a WoW servers technical capacity.  Leave alone compared to other games. Same goes for low and medium. Full is thus likely a manual controlled limit to spread out population forcefully to other server, not neccessarily anymore the technical capacity of a server.

     

    No thats not exactly how WoWs server rating system works. It doesnt update immidiately and doesnt just track current activity but activity and logins spread over several hours. A "high" populated server (by WoWs standards) hitting the upper end of the limit of the current "high" ratings, will get flagged full even if half a day later only 100 people are online. Such a system is simply expecting the others to come online at the next day and prevents more people to join a full server at downtimes only to cause longer queues at the next day. Nothing wrong with that.

     

    And yes other game do this either. I didnt claim otherwise.

  • GinazGinaz Calgary, ABPosts: 1,731Member Uncommon
    Right now at 2:40 am MST, the NA WoW servers have 20 at either full or high.  The Oceanic servers, Australia and New Zealand mostly, all servers are either locked, full or high.  Not sure how it compares to previous ones but it seems like a lot of people are playing the new expansion.

    image

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • AusareAusare adamstown, MDPosts: 850Member
    My horde server is always locked at night. EST.
  • krakra70krakra70 karakas, IDPosts: 122Member

    new stats for saturday. gw2 at 38.5k, wow at 63.5k.  

     

    comparing to last saturday (50.5k) it's a drop of 24%. last week the drop was from 65k to 50.5k (22.3%).

  • Stx11Stx11 West Hills, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by krakra70

    new stats for saturday. gw2 at 38.5k, wow at 63.5k.  

     

    comparing to last saturday (50.5k) it's a drop of 24%. last week the drop was from 65k to 50.5k (22.3%).

    Stats aren't for Saturday... Sept 28 was Friday. Also you are looking at hours played not Players.

    Looking at those figures WoW is at 9700 while GW2 is at 8700. I think WoW was at 9600 the day before while GW2 was at ~9000. Hardly the large population shift you seem to be hoping for.

    On the other hand, GW2 is #3 and #9 on Amazon's Bestsellers (only being beaten by $5 EVE and 40% off Sleeping Dogs) while WoW MoP fell to #6.

  • krakra70krakra70 karakas, IDPosts: 122Member
    Originally posted by Stx11
    Originally posted by krakra70

    new stats for saturday. gw2 at 38.5k, wow at 63.5k.  

     

    comparing to last saturday (50.5k) it's a drop of 24%. last week the drop was from 65k to 50.5k (22.3%).

    Stats aren't for Saturday... Sept 28 was Friday. Also you are looking at hours played not Players.

    Looking at those figures WoW is at 9700 while GW2 is at 8700. I think WoW was at 9600 the day before while GW2 was at ~9000. Hardly the large population shift you seem to be hoping for.

    On the other hand, GW2 is #3 and #9 on Amazon's Bestsellers (only being beaten by $5 EVE and 40% off Sleeping Dogs) while WoW MoP fell to #6.

    The stats I posted are for saturday the 29th. the amazon bestesellers became irrelevant since digital sales became popular.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,969Member Uncommon

    I cant say that I particfularly noticed MOPs release date.

    A friend and guildie do have said he will buy it some day (but havnt yet), otherwise I dont think anyone in my guild have bought it, or if they have they at least seems to play as much as before it came out and havnt mentioned it.

    If there are less or more people in the world, I dunno. Now I play in lvl 70+ areas mostly and I am not sure if they had more players before or not.

    So I dont see any exodus, but it might had some impact. Less than 20% is really hard to see and I only know what is happening on my EU server, it might be different in the US. But my guild is so far totally unaffected (unless Mikko bought it yesterday, I assumed he wasnt logged on because he was at the pub or something).

This discussion has been closed.