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4 Classes or Roles

AshluraAshlura Rathdrum, IDPosts: 112Member

Thats it?

Why cant we just make UO two and be done with all this cookie cutter garbage?

 

Sorry. Im done whining

Comments

  • KatlaOdindottirKatlaOdindottir essexPosts: 144Member
    Originally posted by Ashlura

    Thats it?

    Why cant we just make UO two and be done with all this cookie cutter garbage?

     

    Sorry. Im done whining

    You didn't whine? I myself was worried that we would see all warriors running around in UW with the same skills and there be no choice as it were, but I assure you that's not the case.

    www.daneslaw.com

    @GamerKurisu

    Awaiting Darkfall Unholy Wars

  • FluteFlute WellingtonPosts: 434Member

    Remember they will still have the skill system, so the 4 "classes" are really going to be (in all likelihood) something along the following lines:

    Warrior

    • heavy armour wearer,
    • greatswords, polearms, greataxes, greatmaces
    • Rage skill,
    • Destroyer, indestructible, selectable abilities etc
    • perhaps crossbow (short range slow repeat fire)
    • perhaps lance (mounted combat improvements were suggested).
    Archer
    • medium armour wearers,
    • longbows
    • Spotter skill
    • aquatic shot, jumpshot, magekiller etc
    • knives and short swords
    • perhaps mounted archery (it was in beta of DF 1.0 but removed for balance)
    Mage
    • light armour wearers,
    • knives or staves
    • elemental attack magic
    • elemental wards and selfbuffs
    • Movement and crowd control magic
    • perhaps with opposing schools locking out (fire mage can't have water etc).
    Healer
    • light armour wearers,
    • maces or clubs
    • Healing spell schools
    • Stat buffs and selfbuffs
    • perhaps old arcane magic (likely renamed Divine)
    • perhaps old necromacy magic (opposed to Divine)
    • perhaps a resurrection spell.
     
    While the above are speculative, they are based on many things that have been discussed in the past.  In particular, the addition of crossbows was discussed at length then vanished unexpectedly, however the above would give a logical reason for master bowyers to be able to make them (and for them to be different to simply being a different graphic to normal bows). 
     
    Within the three core classes I very much expect to have selectable abilities still, magekiller (etc), perhaps with more choices added in either at launch or over time.  Combined with the choices of weapons, the result will be quite a subtle but large variation in how different people play each.  There will naturally be preferred "template" chachters, such as the super-heavy armour clad Justicebringer wielding "foot knight" we saw in Darkfall 1.0 or the wall of shiny armoured Dwarves with greatclubs (go Battle Saints!). 
     
    Darkfall 1.0 originally was planning to have opposed magic schools, such that you could have fire magic or water magic, and with the "greying out" system introduced to Darkfall 1.0 it will be both possible and indeed likely that mages and healers will need to choose between which schools they have active.  Mages will need to choose between fire/water (full on attack schools), earth or air (more defensive schools vs melee or vs archery), healers between holy or unholy (old arcane and spell chanting magic or necromacy and withcraft magic).
     
    I expect that in keeping with the Darkfall 1.0 specilizations (magekiller etc) all character will have lesser and greater magic.  It remains to be seen however whether launch becomes a greater magic spell, and telekenesis an air magic spell.  It seems the devs don't want everyone simply bypassing walls with total ease, but actually rather want players in Unholy Wars to blow up walls / gates instead.  We can expect the cost of cannons to be significantly reduced, if warriors do not have an ability to get over the walls as easily in 1.0.
     
    Time will tell, however we do know that over time we, the players, have given Aventurine a great deal of feedback on the game.  That they have a healer quietly in the mix shows they listened, which gives me a lot of optomism for Df:UW
     
  • 123443211234123443211234 seattle, WAPosts: 244Member
    Originally posted by Flute

    Remember they will still have the skill system, so the 4 "classes" are really going to be (in all likelihood) something along the following lines:

    Warrior

    • heavy armour wearer,
    • greatswords, polearms, greataxes, greatmaces
    • Rage skill,
    • Destroyer, indestructible, selectable abilities etc
    • perhaps crossbow (short range slow repeat fire)
    • perhaps lance (mounted combat improvements were suggested).
    Archer
    • medium armour wearers,
    • longbows
    • Spotter skill
    • aquatic shot, jumpshot, magekiller etc
    • knives and short swords
    • perhaps mounted archery (it was in beta of DF 1.0 but removed for balance)
    Mage
    • light armour wearers,
    • knives or staves
    • elemental attack magic
    • elemental wards and selfbuffs
    • Movement and crowd control magic
    • perhaps with opposing schools locking out (fire mage can't have water etc).
    Healer
    • light armour wearers,
    • maces or clubs
    • Healing spell schools
    • Stat buffs and selfbuffs
    • perhaps old arcane magic (likely renamed Divine)
    • perhaps old necromacy magic (opposed to Divine)
    • perhaps a resurrection spell.
     
    While the above are speculative, they are based on many things that have been discussed in the past.  In particular, the addition of crossbows was discussed at length then vanished unexpectedly, however the above would give a logical reason for master bowyers to be able to make them (and for them to be different to simply being a different graphic to normal bows). 
     
    Within the three core classes I very much expect to have selectable abilities still, magekiller (etc), perhaps with more choices added in either at launch or over time.  Combined with the choices of weapons, the result will be quite a subtle but large variation in how different people play each.  There will naturally be preferred "template" chachters, such as the super-heavy armour clad Justicebringer wielding "foot knight" we saw in Darkfall 1.0 or the wall of shiny armoured Dwarves with greatclubs (go Battle Saints!). 
     
    Darkfall 1.0 originally was planning to have opposed magic schools, such that you could have fire magic or water magic, and with the "greying out" system introduced to Darkfall 1.0 it will be both possible and indeed likely that mages and healers will need to choose between which schools they have active.  Mages will need to choose between fire/water (full on attack schools), earth or air (more defensive schools vs melee or vs archery), healers between holy or unholy (old arcane and spell chanting magic or necromacy and withcraft magic).
     
    I expect that in keeping with the Darkfall 1.0 specilizations (magekiller etc) all character will have lesser and greater magic.  It remains to be seen however whether launch becomes a greater magic spell, and telekenesis an air magic spell.  It seems the devs don't want everyone simply bypassing walls with total ease, but actually rather want players in Unholy Wars to blow up walls / gates instead.  We can expect the cost of cannons to be significantly reduced, if warriors do not have an ability to get over the walls as easily in 1.0.
     
    Time will tell, however we do know that over time we, the players, have given Aventurine a great deal of feedback on the game.  That they have a healer quietly in the mix shows they listened, which gives me a lot of optomism for Df:UW
     

    Thats a very nice write up however it has no basis in reality.  "Classes" is a phallacy in Darkfall, yes they will force you to make certain choices, yes you will not be able to pick opposing magic schools.  HOWEVER you will most definetely be able to utilize all three types of primary damage.  I.E. you will have a couple magic schools for long range/utility, you will have archery for medium range and water encounters, and you will absolutely need to have strong melee for getting your hands dirty.  Most smart players will be a hybrid giving them greater utility rather than pigeonholing themselves into one specific thing.  They have talked about the new armor setup I highly suspect many people will mix and match a variety of pieces to create their favorite level of armor.   In Darkfall everyone heals everyone (if you want to be good) and everyone needs to be able to output damage.

     

    P.S. your trying to force certain weapons staves and bows on certain types of armor wearers.  Thats not how Darkfall works everyone can use any type of weapon, bow, or staff combination they want.  It will only be differences in levels of armor/protection.  So your lighter armor guy could still weild a 2h axe, mace or w/e and your warrior could be using the best staff and dopest bow. 

  • FluteFlute WellingtonPosts: 434Member

    I would not say "no basis in reality" - it is my deduction from what Av has said and done publically over the past 3 years, combined with information from various other sources.  Do I have inside information on Df:UW?  No, I don't.  But that does not mean I wasn't listening to what Av said or have forgotten what they did say. 

     

    Remember UW is a culmination of a long process of improving the game, so when Aventurine talked about crossbows, master tailor being added, mines moving to villages, fishing ships, the runner ship, (etc etc), it is not a big leap to infer the things they spoke of "improving" in Df 1.0 will be in the design of Df:UW.  

     

    They can very easily grey out certain weapons when you pick your class.  My reason for inferring that they will is that they do not want everyone to end up being identical, and without greying things out players will inevitably pick the "best" reach/speed/damage type weapon, then everyone will have justicebringers (etc).  The system they invented for Df 1.0 gives them the freedom to pick and choose what greys out when you select any class or ability, my pick is they will use that for more than just armour.   

  • blurtblurterblurtblurter MastertonPosts: 25Member

    Dont like being made to choose a role in a skill based game!

    Sure their can be in game guilds you can apply too like eg Thieves Guild, Ranger Danger, Paladins for Twats, Fighters Meat Shielding, Mages Fall Over etc where if you have the required skill levels, pray to the right god, donate some cash, take the trials then youre in and get access to some extra skills you need to work on. If you dont meet the reqs then you are kicked from the guild and you no longer get access to the skills or the guild untill you rectify the problem, if indeed you want to, Players have choice this way. All skill point allocation should come out of one skill point pool. This is how force roles in a skill-based game, not allocating roles! ffs! Players have choice and need to choose.

    Can be a lore enhancing tool.

    So you can be in a PC clan and a NPC guild at the same time.

    Some clans may not want certain guilds and can stipulate this. Get players to show thier guild before clan acceptance.

    Only at the players disgression they have thier guild tag showing, clan tags however always show.

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member

    I always found it amusing when people try and shoot down classes in sandbox games as a non-sandbox feature.

     

    Let me explain.  What is the difference between a Warrior in a sandbox and a Warrior in a themepark?

     

    As far as skills go and melee effectiveness, nothing.  The only thing that is different in a sandbox is that you generally have the option of tweaking the effectiveness of your class in other areas to gear the character more to your playstyle.  Generally a themepark will give you certain abilities or skills and if you want that self buff from another class, too bad, you have what you are given by the developers.

     

    Why can't there be a middle ground?  Who cares what class you choose, as long as you have many options within that class that can make your character unique.  The key in a system like this is to not allow too many options outside of your class though.  Otherwise, as previously stated, everyone will eventually pick the flavor of the month, and the system will be no different than the one that ails Darkfall currently.

     

    So, you want to be a dark knight?  Pick the Warrior class and spec your character in unholy magic, curses, heavy armor and melee weapons.  You want to be a ranger?  Spec yourself in the Archer class and get a pet, is that even possible?  Spec yourself in archery and melee skills with some sort of nature or earth based magic.  Do you want to be a Swashbucker?  Sword/shield, self buffs, group buffs, medium armor and utility spells.  Necromancer?  Mage class, unholy magic, water magic, knives, drain life, raise dead, etc.  

     

    There will be plenty of selections within any given class.  I think too many people get caught up in what selecting a class has meant in the past and dismiss the concept entirely.  All that selection will do is limit certain aspects that would push you too far into another classes specs.  

     

    Ultimately, picking a class and playing what you want to play is literally, exactly the same.

  • GreymoorGreymoor ManchesterPosts: 801Member

    Quiet a few posters in this thread are really far off what we've been told...

    To put it as simple as possible;

    - 4 Classes

    - Each class has 4 ability sets, you're only allowed to choose two, making 8 classes (no hybrids allowed)

    - The new gui shot also showed a limited number of ability slots per school, varying people even more

    - You may swap between classes often and don't lose any progress you've made in your current class

    - Each class is restricted to certain armour and weapon types, there will be no heavily armoured mages

     

    SPECULATION;

    Everyone will still be using melee, archery, magic HOWEVER will probably be limited to lower rank weapons or just greater/lesser magic unless they specc the appropiate role.

    So you could go toe to toe with the warrior class as a mage but he would have immensly higher melee protections AND have a much stronger melee weapon. The warrior would also have a range of close range abilities too.

    You could decide to use a bow as a mage but the archer class again would have heavier armour, a better bow and abilities.

     

  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member
    Originally posted by DAS1337

    I always found it amusing when people try and shoot down classes in sandbox games as a non-sandbox feature.

     

    Let me explain.  What is the difference between a Warrior in a sandbox and a Warrior in a themepark?

     

    As far as skills go and melee effectiveness, nothing.  The only thing that is different in a sandbox is that you generally have the option of tweaking the effectiveness of your class in other areas to gear the character more to your playstyle.  Generally a themepark will give you certain abilities or skills and if you want that self buff from another class, too bad, you have what you are given by the developers.

     

    Why can't there be a middle ground?  Who cares what class you choose, as long as you have many options within that class that can make your character unique.  The key in a system like this is to not allow too many options outside of your class though.  Otherwise, as previously stated, everyone will eventually pick the flavor of the month, and the system will be no different than the one that ails Darkfall currently.

     

    So, you want to be a dark knight?  Pick the Warrior class and spec your character in unholy magic, curses, heavy armor and melee weapons.  You want to be a ranger?  Spec yourself in the Archer class and get a pet, is that even possible?  Spec yourself in archery and melee skills with some sort of nature or earth based magic.  Do you want to be a Swashbucker?  Sword/shield, self buffs, group buffs, medium armor and utility spells.  Necromancer?  Mage class, unholy magic, water magic, knives, drain life, raise dead, etc.  

     

    There will be plenty of selections within any given class.  I think too many people get caught up in what selecting a class has meant in the past and dismiss the concept entirely.  All that selection will do is limit certain aspects that would push you too far into another classes specs.  

     

    Ultimately, picking a class and playing what you want to play is literally, exactly the same.

    well put

  • redman875redman875 illinois, ILPosts: 230Member

    I think the game will paly out more or less the same as the first, except with magic of course.

    You will be limited in what magic you use, unlike now where theres no limit and everyone rolls with everything in every encounter and if you dont your toast.

    I just hope they dont make magic too strong, else it will be a requirement like it is now (destructo is semi-viable now but way more expensive and you need to be seriously good to do decent with it)

     

    My biggest peeve with DF was that you really had no choice. You HAD to be competant with magic, melee was reserved for the last couple shots, also armor didnt seem to have tne inteded effect, which is why most used the same setup of featherd heavy helmets, a few pieces of bone and studded to get the best armor to encumberance value so they could be good mages.  All the other various forms of armor sets only had value back when everyone was noob and no one could make better. 

    Cloth, Padded, Leather, Banded, Plate are all noob gear and pointless..people would rather roll out in all bone armor or the mix of heavyhelmet and light for seiges.

    You still can be it all in 2.0 but what you wear is going to determine what your good with.  Heavy plate players are suppose to be restricted to the most basic lesser magic ect....choosing magic is going to have opposing magic school.

     

    Also i hope they get rid of knockups and WOF.

  • GreymoorGreymoor ManchesterPosts: 801Member
    Originally posted by redman875

    You still can be it all in 2.0 but what you wear is going to determine what your good with.  Heavy plate players are suppose to be restricted to the most basic lesser magic ect....choosing magic is going to have opposing magic school.

     

    Also i hope they get rid of knockups and WOF.

    Wrong.....

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Kitchener, ONPosts: 1,971Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Greymoor
    Originally posted by redman875

    You still can be it all in 2.0 but what you wear is going to determine what your good with.  Heavy plate players are suppose to be restricted to the most basic lesser magic ect....choosing magic is going to have opposing magic school.

     

    Also i hope they get rid of knockups and WOF.

    Wrong.....

    Zebra.....?

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • JakdstripperJakdstripper logan lake, BCPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ashlura

    Thats it?

    Why cant we just make UO two and be done with all this cookie cutter garbage?

     

    Sorry. Im done whining

     that is sort of like asking "why don't we just make Duck Hunt 2 and be done with it?".

    the sad truth is that games have come a long way from UO and there is just no going back. However, more games should take the good features of UO and expand on them.

  • BizkitNLBizkitNL NetherlandsPosts: 2,280Member Common

    As great as "no classes" sounds, eventually people will realize that everyone will be the same in the end.

    In my opinion, it's better to have classes, but with HUGE specialization as to make no 2 warriors the same.

    But that's me?

    10
  • JakdstripperJakdstripper logan lake, BCPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BizkitNL

    As great as "no classes" sounds, eventually people will realize that everyone will be the same in the end.

    In my opinion, it's better to have classes, but with HUGE specialization as to make no 2 warriors the same.

    But that's me?

     i am actually in favour of a limited ammount of skills that you choose from a very large selection of possible skills. much like Mortal did or even GW2 does.

    so besically for example your character can have only 20 "fighting" skills, but the total fighting skills aveilable are 100. you can change your skills at any time, by readinb books or preforming those actions, but you can only have a max of 20 at one time.

    of the 100 total skills 20 could be mage like offencive spells, 20 rouge like abilities, 20 tank like abilities like armor and protection, 20 like "ranger abilities, and 20 healing/buffing abilities.

    that way people pretty much have to specilize but they can change their specialization if they so wish. it just takes a bit of time to level the new specilization.

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,289Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aethaeryn
    Originally posted by Greymoor
    Originally posted by redman875

    You still can be it all in 2.0 but what you wear is going to determine what your good with.  Heavy plate players are suppose to be restricted to the most basic lesser magic ect....choosing magic is going to have opposing magic school.

     

    Also i hope they get rid of knockups and WOF.

    Wrong.....

    Zebra.....?

    Xylophones FTW!

    but only if you can dual wield image

  • BizkitNLBizkitNL NetherlandsPosts: 2,280Member Common
    Originally posted by Jakdstripper
    Originally posted by BizkitNL

    As great as "no classes" sounds, eventually people will realize that everyone will be the same in the end.

    In my opinion, it's better to have classes, but with HUGE specialization as to make no 2 warriors the same.

    But that's me?

     i am actually in favour of a limited ammount of skills that you choose from a very large selection of possible skills. much like Mortal did or even GW2 does.

    so besically for example your character can have only 20 "fighting" skills, but the total fighting skills aveilable are 100. you can change your skills at any time, by readinb books or preforming those actions, but you can only have a max of 20 at one time.

    that way people pretty much have to specilize but they can change their specialization if they so wish. it just takes a bit of time to level the new specilization.

    Indeed, you're right. I was talking from an unlimited skillpoint type of system.

    That actually sounds pretty good too. Well, whatever the case, what DF had just didn't cut it for me.

    10
  • GreenishBlueGreenishBlue Baltimore, MDPosts: 263Member
    fire mage or I won't play, simple as that lol

    image
  • FluteFlute WellingtonPosts: 434Member
    Originally posted by GreenishBlue
    fire mage or I won't play, simple as that lol

    Oh there will be, whoever designed the original Darkfall 1.0 loved fire magic (it was the best of the elementals from day 1), it's simply not plausible it won't be in there.  *whoooosh* *crispy*

     

    If you think of classes or roles, all you need to do is remember EVE ends up with roles as well - logistics pilot, cap pilot, black ops pilot, roqual pilot, JF pilot etc.  The skill system was so long term it forces choices.  While it remains to be seen how well (or not) the new system works, it has potential to be very good and is not without precedent in other FFA skill games.  

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