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Trent Oster Thinks Fans Negativity and EA Drove Muzyka and Zeschuk from Bioware

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Comments

  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Vancouver, WAPosts: 781Member Common
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    EA, EA, EA, blame EA, derp

     

    Did EA create the railshooter? Did EA chose the Hero Engine? Did EA think it's a cool idea to have planets frozen in time with stiff NPCs?

     

    Get over it, BW dropped the ball, EA is a freakin' publisher and not the game developer

     As easy as it is to blame EA, this post is exactly right.

     

    EA gave Bioware plenty of TIME and MONEY to create a great MMO, Bioware just royally crapped the bed on this one. If anything the Doctors were asked to leave not the other way around.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    EA, EA, EA, blame EA, derp

     

    Did EA create the railshooter? Did EA chose the Hero Engine? Did EA think it's a cool idea to have planets frozen in time with stiff NPCs?

     

    Get over it, BW dropped the ball, EA is a freakin' publisher and not the game developer

     As easy as it is to blame EA, this post is exactly right.

     

    EA gave Bioware plenty of TIME and MONEY to create a great MMO, Bioware just royally crapped the bed on this one. If anything the Doctors were asked to leave not the other way around.

    That's nice, except BioWare is a subsidary of EA.  So when you say BioWare crapped the bed .. you mean EA crapped the bed .. all the people working in BioWare since 2007 were under the payroll of EA.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Vancouver, WAPosts: 781Member Common
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    EA, EA, EA, blame EA, derp

     

    Did EA create the railshooter? Did EA chose the Hero Engine? Did EA think it's a cool idea to have planets frozen in time with stiff NPCs?

     

    Get over it, BW dropped the ball, EA is a freakin' publisher and not the game developer

     As easy as it is to blame EA, this post is exactly right.

     

    EA gave Bioware plenty of TIME and MONEY to create a great MMO, Bioware just royally crapped the bed on this one. If anything the Doctors were asked to leave not the other way around.

    That's nice, except BioWare is a subsidary of EA.  So when you say BioWare crapped the bed .. you mean EA crapped the bed .. all the people working in BioWare since 2007 were under the payroll of EA.

     You can't argue that EA didn't give Bioware plenty of time and tons of money to create what EA thought would be a winning MMO. I'm not arguing that EA paid the bills, because they did. What I'm saying is the Devs and the uppermanagement of Bioware are directly to blame for the failure of SWTOR, EA's portion of the blame is less in this case.

     

    Most Developers would shine with the budget and time Bioware had to create SWTOR, unfortunately Bioware completely dropped the ball and are now suffering from the coorporate wrath of EA.

  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Vancouver, WAPosts: 781Member Common

    Imagine what Trion would be able to create with 5 years and a $200+ million dollar budget.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    EA, EA, EA, blame EA, derp

     

    Did EA create the railshooter? Did EA chose the Hero Engine? Did EA think it's a cool idea to have planets frozen in time with stiff NPCs?

     

    Get over it, BW dropped the ball, EA is a freakin' publisher and not the game developer

     As easy as it is to blame EA, this post is exactly right.

     

    EA gave Bioware plenty of TIME and MONEY to create a great MMO, Bioware just royally crapped the bed on this one. If anything the Doctors were asked to leave not the other way around.

    That's nice, except BioWare is a subsidary of EA.  So when you say BioWare crapped the bed .. you mean EA crapped the bed .. all the people working in BioWare since 2007 were under the payroll of EA.

     You can't argue that EA didn't give Bioware plenty of time and tons of money to create what EA thought would be a winning MMO. I'm not arguing that EA paid the bills, because they did. What I'm saying is the Devs and the uppermanagement of Bioware are directly to blame for the failure of SWTOR, EA's portion of the blame is less in this case.

     

    Most Developers would shine with the budget and time Bioware had to create SWTOR, unfortunately Bioware completely dropped the ball and are now suffering from the coorporate wrath of EA.

    When you sell a company, you (in this case the doctors) might want your company to do well by you, but company morale is way low at this point.  If you were ever in a small company compassionate about your work then you would know what they felt .. there is no reason to continue the passion .. Going to work is more about just showing up and performing.  If your heart isn't into it then it simply isn't in to it.  I see no reason why the original BioWare would keep their same passion for gaming once some conglomorate like EA took over and started telling how things should be really done.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • jerlot65jerlot65 Lake Mary, FLPosts: 788Member
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61

    Link

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/09/28/trent-oster-thinks-fans-negativity-and-ea-drove-muzyka-and-zeschuk-from-bioware/

     

    I would say I am not surprised that they would want to quit because of fan negativity. SWTOR "fans" venom could kill every body.

    If that were true. the only thing proven is MMO fans are the crappiest fans for anything.  Problem with the cry babys, they dont know technical limitations, they have no patience, and all want something different,

    image
  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Vancouver, WAPosts: 781Member Common
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    EA, EA, EA, blame EA, derp

     

    Did EA create the railshooter? Did EA chose the Hero Engine? Did EA think it's a cool idea to have planets frozen in time with stiff NPCs?

     

    Get over it, BW dropped the ball, EA is a freakin' publisher and not the game developer

     As easy as it is to blame EA, this post is exactly right.

     

    EA gave Bioware plenty of TIME and MONEY to create a great MMO, Bioware just royally crapped the bed on this one. If anything the Doctors were asked to leave not the other way around.

    That's nice, except BioWare is a subsidary of EA.  So when you say BioWare crapped the bed .. you mean EA crapped the bed .. all the people working in BioWare since 2007 were under the payroll of EA.

     You can't argue that EA didn't give Bioware plenty of time and tons of money to create what EA thought would be a winning MMO. I'm not arguing that EA paid the bills, because they did. What I'm saying is the Devs and the uppermanagement of Bioware are directly to blame for the failure of SWTOR, EA's portion of the blame is less in this case.

     

    Most Developers would shine with the budget and time Bioware had to create SWTOR, unfortunately Bioware completely dropped the ball and are now suffering from the coorporate wrath of EA.

    When you sell a company, you (in this case the doctors) might want your company to do well by you, but company morale is way low at this point.  If you were ever in a small company compassionate about your work then you would know what they felt .. there is no reason to continue the passion .. Going to work is more about just showing up and performing.  If your heart isn't into it then it simple isn't in to it.  I see no reason why the original BioWare would keep their same passion for gaming once some conglomorate like EA took over and started telling how things should be really done.

     Company morale was not that low right before launch, I seem to remember overbearing cockiness coming out of Bioware. I'm not saying there is no blame to EA, thier history of destroying developers is quite well known. But in this case, I fail to see how EA is entirely to blame considering the budget and time they gave to make this mmo.

     

    If the entire failure is because of "morale" then they deserved to fail imo, sometimes you have to man up or shut up and do your job.

  • KakkzookaKakkzooka Waterbury, CTPosts: 591Member
    They should stop shining themselves (and us) on and own up to making a piece of shit game.

    Re: SWTOR

    "Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"

  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Vancouver, WAPosts: 781Member Common
    Originally posted by jerlot65
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61

    Link

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/09/28/trent-oster-thinks-fans-negativity-and-ea-drove-muzyka-and-zeschuk-from-bioware/

     

    I would say I am not surprised that they would want to quit because of fan negativity. SWTOR "fans" venom could kill every body.

    If that were true. the only thing proven is MMO fans are the crappiest fans for anything.  Problem with the cry babys, they dont know technical limitations, they have no patience, and all want something different,

     This is the only thing I can remotely agree with in your post. Consumers in general get testy when they are promised the world and receive a keychain globe. If SWTOR was good, the doctors would be swimming in praise. As far a technical limitations, why isn't every game bad then? Why are some games fun without amazing graphics.

     

    SWTOR failure was well beyond "technical limitations".

  • UkiahUkiah Austin, TXPosts: 273Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Biowares arrogance is to blame.

    They saw EA bend over and abuse amongst many great dev teams - origin, bullfrog, mythic, firaxis,maxis, westwood etc.

    And thought "yeah but that's them guys, we're better than that, we can take EAs 50 pieces of silver and still keep or integrity"

    Now THERE is a statement that's a probably 100% accurate representation of the good Dr's thoughts...

  • UkiahUkiah Austin, TXPosts: 273Member
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    EA, EA, EA, blame EA, derp

     

    Did EA create the railshooter? Did EA chose the Hero Engine? Did EA think it's a cool idea to have planets frozen in time with stiff NPCs?

     

    Get over it, BW dropped the ball, EA is a freakin' publisher and not the game developer

     As easy as it is to blame EA, this post is exactly right.

     

    EA gave Bioware plenty of TIME and MONEY to create a great MMO, Bioware just royally crapped the bed on this one. If anything the Doctors were asked to leave not the other way around.

    When I worked for IBM many, many years ago, they called this "Empowering the employees", which was commonly/colloquially translated as "give them enough rope to hang themselves".

  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Vancouver, WAPosts: 781Member Common
    Originally posted by cahenderson
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    EA, EA, EA, blame EA, derp

     

    Did EA create the railshooter? Did EA chose the Hero Engine? Did EA think it's a cool idea to have planets frozen in time with stiff NPCs?

     

    Get over it, BW dropped the ball, EA is a freakin' publisher and not the game developer

     As easy as it is to blame EA, this post is exactly right.

     

    EA gave Bioware plenty of TIME and MONEY to create a great MMO, Bioware just royally crapped the bed on this one. If anything the Doctors were asked to leave not the other way around.

    When I worked for IBM many, many years ago, they called this "Empowering the employees", which was commonly/colloquially translated as "give them enough rope to hang themselves".

     Well, they certainly hung themselves. When you mess up a $200 million dollar project, someone will have to hang for it.

  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Centreville, VAPosts: 1,690Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by jerlot65
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61

    Link

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/09/28/trent-oster-thinks-fans-negativity-and-ea-drove-muzyka-and-zeschuk-from-bioware/

     

    I would say I am not surprised that they would want to quit because of fan negativity. SWTOR "fans" venom could kill every body.

    If that were true. the only thing proven is MMO fans are the crappiest fans for anything.  Problem with the cry babys, they dont know technical limitations, they have no patience, and all want something different,

     This is the only thing I can remotely agree with in your post. Consumers in general get testy when they are promised the world and receive a keychain globe. If SWTOR was good, the doctors would be swimming in praise. As far a technical limitations, why isn't every game bad then? Why are some games fun without amazing graphics.

     

    SWTOR failure was well beyond "technical limitations".

    SWTOR is fun for many people. Please do not generalize.

    image
    Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
    Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
    Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Vancouver, WAPosts: 781Member Common
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by jerlot65
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61

    Link

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/09/28/trent-oster-thinks-fans-negativity-and-ea-drove-muzyka-and-zeschuk-from-bioware/

     

    I would say I am not surprised that they would want to quit because of fan negativity. SWTOR "fans" venom could kill every body.

    If that were true. the only thing proven is MMO fans are the crappiest fans for anything.  Problem with the cry babys, they dont know technical limitations, they have no patience, and all want something different,

     This is the only thing I can remotely agree with in your post. Consumers in general get testy when they are promised the world and receive a keychain globe. If SWTOR was good, the doctors would be swimming in praise. As far a technical limitations, why isn't every game bad then? Why are some games fun without amazing graphics.

     

    SWTOR failure was well beyond "technical limitations".

    SWTOR is fun for many people. Please do not generalize.

     And SWTOR was a failure to many, including myself. Don't take it personal.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    EA, EA, EA, blame EA, derp

     

    Did EA create the railshooter? Did EA chose the Hero Engine? Did EA think it's a cool idea to have planets frozen in time with stiff NPCs?

     

    Get over it, BW dropped the ball, EA is a freakin' publisher and not the game developer

     As easy as it is to blame EA, this post is exactly right.

     

    EA gave Bioware plenty of TIME and MONEY to create a great MMO, Bioware just royally crapped the bed on this one. If anything the Doctors were asked to leave not the other way around.

    That's nice, except BioWare is a subsidary of EA.  So when you say BioWare crapped the bed .. you mean EA crapped the bed .. all the people working in BioWare since 2007 were under the payroll of EA.

     You can't argue that EA didn't give Bioware plenty of time and tons of money to create what EA thought would be a winning MMO. I'm not arguing that EA paid the bills, because they did. What I'm saying is the Devs and the uppermanagement of Bioware are directly to blame for the failure of SWTOR, EA's portion of the blame is less in this case.

     

    Most Developers would shine with the budget and time Bioware had to create SWTOR, unfortunately Bioware completely dropped the ball and are now suffering from the coorporate wrath of EA.

    When you sell a company, you (in this case the doctors) might want your company to do well by you, but company morale is way low at this point.  If you were ever in a small company compassionate about your work then you would know what they felt .. there is no reason to continue the passion .. Going to work is more about just showing up and performing.  If your heart isn't into it then it simple isn't in to it.  I see no reason why the original BioWare would keep their same passion for gaming once some conglomorate like EA took over and started telling how things should be really done.

     Company morale was not that low right before launch, I seem to remember overbearing cockiness coming out of Bioware. I'm not saying there is no blame to EA, thier history of destroying developers is quite well known. But in this case, I fail to see how EA is entirely to blame considering the budget and time they gave to make this mmo.

     

    If the entire failure is because of "morale" then they deserved to fail imo, sometimes you have to man up or shut up and do your job.

    I remember that cockiness too, and I now see it as a pack of lies, somewhat .. EA did deliver on story for sure.  I sort of feel like I saw a trailer for a movie where the best 2 minutes were put in the trailer and the rest of the movie stunk.  It's kind of hard, and like I said story (also music) were good, but what a letdown overall.

     

    Was there someone else to blame?  You can't blame BioWare because they are a subsidery of EA .. EA already tried multiple times to blame the fans ..who else can you blame?

     

    It might be sound, morale can be the death of any person, group, or even country.  If your hearts not in it, there is no reason to perform above anyone else.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • jerlot65jerlot65 Lake Mary, FLPosts: 788Member
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by jerlot65
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61

    Link

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/09/28/trent-oster-thinks-fans-negativity-and-ea-drove-muzyka-and-zeschuk-from-bioware/

     

    I would say I am not surprised that they would want to quit because of fan negativity. SWTOR "fans" venom could kill every body.

    If that were true. the only thing proven is MMO fans are the crappiest fans for anything.  Problem with the cry babys, they dont know technical limitations, they have no patience, and all want something different,

     This is the only thing I can remotely agree with in your post. Consumers in general get testy when they are promised the world and receive a keychain globe. If SWTOR was good, the doctors would be swimming in praise. As far a technical limitations, why isn't every game bad then? Why are some games fun without amazing graphics.

     

    SWTOR failure was well beyond "technical limitations".

    Listen, I'm not saying SWTOR is a great game and the fans are wrong.  What i am saying is in general, MMO fans, at least teh one who cant find a mmo they like, exxagerate how bad games are.  They cite bugs/graphics/ and all other kinds of stuff and the only solutions they give are mostly ones that cannot be done because of technical limitations. 

    Is SWTOR a failure?  Yes, because they set such high expectations on the game and did not meet those expectations, in my eyes, they failed.  But would I call the game horrible?  No.  Would I call the game a completed disaster, No.

    The graphics are fine, the gameplay is fine.  If you  took  the hype and scope of this game away and compared it to other video games, this game rocks.  But because of the expectations and just based on the fans of this genre, this game appears to be the worst game ever made.

    So to say the two docs may have left due to fan negativity is very possible.  But not because of how crappy SWTOR, but because it wasnt popular and that the fans are so bitter.

    And for me, I could never be a game developer.  Becuase to spend years of my life dedicated to creating something.  And then haev that something be crapped on by people who are so bitter as to exaggerate the negatives and be so disrepctful to teh devs.  i couldnt handle it.  i would want to jump thru the screnn.

    image
  • mxbxmxbx Honolu, HIPosts: 42Member
    As someone who really doesn't care either way, I think SWG really was a far better game (even post-NGE) for its time than TOR is in its time.  Several hundred million dollars for wow-clone combat is embarrassing for Bioware as a gaming company, I think.  
  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Vancouver, WAPosts: 781Member Common
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    EA, EA, EA, blame EA, derp

     

    Did EA create the railshooter? Did EA chose the Hero Engine? Did EA think it's a cool idea to have planets frozen in time with stiff NPCs?

     

    Get over it, BW dropped the ball, EA is a freakin' publisher and not the game developer

     As easy as it is to blame EA, this post is exactly right.

     

    EA gave Bioware plenty of TIME and MONEY to create a great MMO, Bioware just royally crapped the bed on this one. If anything the Doctors were asked to leave not the other way around.

    That's nice, except BioWare is a subsidary of EA.  So when you say BioWare crapped the bed .. you mean EA crapped the bed .. all the people working in BioWare since 2007 were under the payroll of EA.

     You can't argue that EA didn't give Bioware plenty of time and tons of money to create what EA thought would be a winning MMO. I'm not arguing that EA paid the bills, because they did. What I'm saying is the Devs and the uppermanagement of Bioware are directly to blame for the failure of SWTOR, EA's portion of the blame is less in this case.

     

    Most Developers would shine with the budget and time Bioware had to create SWTOR, unfortunately Bioware completely dropped the ball and are now suffering from the coorporate wrath of EA.

    When you sell a company, you (in this case the doctors) might want your company to do well by you, but company morale is way low at this point.  If you were ever in a small company compassionate about your work then you would know what they felt .. there is no reason to continue the passion .. Going to work is more about just showing up and performing.  If your heart isn't into it then it simple isn't in to it.  I see no reason why the original BioWare would keep their same passion for gaming once some conglomorate like EA took over and started telling how things should be really done.

     Company morale was not that low right before launch, I seem to remember overbearing cockiness coming out of Bioware. I'm not saying there is no blame to EA, thier history of destroying developers is quite well known. But in this case, I fail to see how EA is entirely to blame considering the budget and time they gave to make this mmo.

     

    If the entire failure is because of "morale" then they deserved to fail imo, sometimes you have to man up or shut up and do your job.

    I remember that cockiness too, and I now see it as a pack of lies, somewhat .. EA did deliver on story for sure.  I sort of feel like I saw a trailer for a movie where the best 2 minutes were put in the trailer and the rest of the movie stunk.  It's kind of hard, and like I said story (also music) were good, but what a letdown overall.

     

    Was there someone else to blame?  You can't blame BioWare because they are a subsidery of EA .. EA already tried multiple times to blame the fans ..who else can you blame?

     

    It might be sound, morale can be the death of any person, group, or even country.  If your hearts not in it, there is no reason to perform above anyone else.

     The only real difference between us is I'm seperating Bioware from EA while you're not, and honestly you might be right. But the gist of what I'm saying is SWTOR should of been better considering the time they were afforded and the unprecedented budget they had.

  • TheCrow2kTheCrow2k Adelaide, AKPosts: 953Member
    Truth is those guys & Bioware were always about shipping high quality games. As soon as they got in bed with EA the quality we had come to expect started to slip. Do you really think the Bioware of old would have conceived & shipped DA2 after what we got in DAO ? The answer is no.

    The Bioware brand has diminished & I suspect those guys are no longer proud to be a part of it so they left.
  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Vancouver, WAPosts: 781Member Common
    Originally posted by jerlot65
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by jerlot65
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61

    Link

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/09/28/trent-oster-thinks-fans-negativity-and-ea-drove-muzyka-and-zeschuk-from-bioware/

     

    I would say I am not surprised that they would want to quit because of fan negativity. SWTOR "fans" venom could kill every body.

    If that were true. the only thing proven is MMO fans are the crappiest fans for anything.  Problem with the cry babys, they dont know technical limitations, they have no patience, and all want something different,

     This is the only thing I can remotely agree with in your post. Consumers in general get testy when they are promised the world and receive a keychain globe. If SWTOR was good, the doctors would be swimming in praise. As far a technical limitations, why isn't every game bad then? Why are some games fun without amazing graphics.

     

    SWTOR failure was well beyond "technical limitations".

    Listen, I'm not saying SWTOR is a great game and the fans are wrong.  What i am saying is in general, MMO fans, at least teh one who cant find a mmo they like, exxagerate how bad games are.  They cite bugs/graphics/ and all other kinds of stuff and the only solutions they give are mostly ones that cannot be done because of technical limitations. 

    Is SWTOR a failure?  Yes, because they set such high expectations on the game and did not meet those expectations, in my eyes, they failed.  But would I call the game horrible?  No.  Would I call the game a completed disaster, No.

    The graphics are fine, the gameplay is fine.  If you  took  the hype and scope of this game away and compared it to other video games, this game rocks.  But because of the expectations and just based on the fans of this genre, this game appears to be the worst game ever made.

    So to say the two docs may have left due to fan negativity is very possible.  But not because of how crappy SWTOR, but because it wasnt popular and that the fans are so bitter.

    And for me, I could never be a game developer.  Becuase to spend years of my life dedicated to creating something.  And then haev that something be crapped on by people who are so bitter as to exaggerate the negatives and be so disrepctful to teh devs.  i couldnt handle it.  i would want to jump thru the screnn.

     And what I'm saying it is not just MMO players, go read reviews of your local resturants or pretty much any product review. If the product is bad, people will not hold back and will bash it to oblivion, if it is good they will praise it as the second coming. You read a lot of MMO negativity because you're on an MMO forum. Saying MMO players are the scum of the earth or the crappiest fans because they are vocal with thier displeasure is inaccurate and a little offensive to me personally.

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    Has the 200m dollar budget ever be confirmed? From what I recall, it was mentioned once, in a newspaper as some figure and there was no real source mentioned in that article. In this age of Fox News style of journalism and generally sloppy news reporting (too many examples to mention), I am quite sceptical.


    As for EA, maybe it was BW's fault, maybe it was EA's fault. But it's hard to deny the fact that all game companies that were great when they joined EA, deteriorated quickly. That's simpluy too much of a coincidence. It isn't also limited to EA btw. Companies falling under Activision like Infinity Ward and Blizzard also become prone to a mentality and culture shift, although maybe not that evident. But still. I think it's simply because those big gaming corporations have a different rank of their priorities, which can have pervasive and big consequences in the long term: less fanservice that aren't maybe directly and concretely translatable into money generation, and more focus on production and financial results.




    SWTOR wasn't a bad product as an MMO. It just wasn't one that a lot of hardcore SW/SWG fans or BW fans wanted. And (some) sandbox fans will ofc burn any AAA themepark MMO to the ground in their boredom, in the mindset of 'if I can't have any fun, then no one should have any fun and the MMO genre as it is may burn to the ground for all I care' >.>


    Like some have said, I think indeed that it was a combination of things that all added up that led to their leaving. I also think that compared to 10-15 years ago there has been a hardening of the mentality of gamers. More boredom, more viciousness and entitlement. I can recall that in earlier years of gaming there was generally a far higher acceptance of features or flaws in games, many of which were far simpler in their gameplay; mechanics, features and flaws that would be burnt to ashes in the current player base atmosphere but were overall accepted or tolerated back then while people still had fun.
  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    EA, EA, EA, blame EA, derp

     

    Did EA create the railshooter? Did EA chose the Hero Engine? Did EA think it's a cool idea to have planets frozen in time with stiff NPCs?

     

    Get over it, BW dropped the ball, EA is a freakin' publisher and not the game developer

     As easy as it is to blame EA, this post is exactly right.

     

    EA gave Bioware plenty of TIME and MONEY to create a great MMO, Bioware just royally crapped the bed on this one. If anything the Doctors were asked to leave not the other way around.

    That's nice, except BioWare is a subsidary of EA.  So when you say BioWare crapped the bed .. you mean EA crapped the bed .. all the people working in BioWare since 2007 were under the payroll of EA.

     You can't argue that EA didn't give Bioware plenty of time and tons of money to create what EA thought would be a winning MMO. I'm not arguing that EA paid the bills, because they did. What I'm saying is the Devs and the uppermanagement of Bioware are directly to blame for the failure of SWTOR, EA's portion of the blame is less in this case.

     

    Most Developers would shine with the budget and time Bioware had to create SWTOR, unfortunately Bioware completely dropped the ball and are now suffering from the coorporate wrath of EA.

    When you sell a company, you (in this case the doctors) might want your company to do well by you, but company morale is way low at this point.  If you were ever in a small company compassionate about your work then you would know what they felt .. there is no reason to continue the passion .. Going to work is more about just showing up and performing.  If your heart isn't into it then it simple isn't in to it.  I see no reason why the original BioWare would keep their same passion for gaming once some conglomorate like EA took over and started telling how things should be really done.

     Company morale was not that low right before launch, I seem to remember overbearing cockiness coming out of Bioware. I'm not saying there is no blame to EA, thier history of destroying developers is quite well known. But in this case, I fail to see how EA is entirely to blame considering the budget and time they gave to make this mmo.

     

    If the entire failure is because of "morale" then they deserved to fail imo, sometimes you have to man up or shut up and do your job.

    I remember that cockiness too, and I now see it as a pack of lies, somewhat .. EA did deliver on story for sure.  I sort of feel like I saw a trailer for a movie where the best 2 minutes were put in the trailer and the rest of the movie stunk.  It's kind of hard, and like I said story (also music) were good, but what a letdown overall.

     

    Was there someone else to blame?  You can't blame BioWare because they are a subsidery of EA .. EA already tried multiple times to blame the fans ..who else can you blame?

     

    It might be sound, morale can be the death of any person, group, or even country.  If your hearts not in it, there is no reason to perform above anyone else.

     The only real difference between us is I'm seperating Bioware from EA while you're not, and honestly you might be right. But the gist of what I'm saying is SWTOR should of been better considering the time they were afforded and the unprecedented budget they had.

    Agree on everything but I'm wondering about the portion in red.  Would a new thread about the buyout of BioWare by EA help?  Just wondering because I see many people confused about the non-existance of BioWare and their parent company EA.

    ..And the more and more I communicate, the more it becomes evidant that people still blame BioWare for everything. (BioWare was sold in 2007 and ceased to exist, only by name)

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Vancouver, WAPosts: 781Member Common
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SuperDonk
     

     The only real difference between us is I'm seperating Bioware from EA while you're not, and honestly you might be right. But the gist of what I'm saying is SWTOR should of been better considering the time they were afforded and the unprecedented budget they had.

    Agree on everything but I'm wondering about the portion in red.  Would a new thread about the buyout of BioWare by EA help?  Just wondering because I see many people confused about the non-existance of BioWare and their parent company EA.

     The ONLY reason I have been seperating Bioware from EA in this case is the reports before SWTOR launched that EA was being very hands-off for the project. Of course those reports might not of been true and might of been a tactic of EA's to seperate thier bad name from what was a good name for Bioware.

  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Vancouver, WAPosts: 781Member Common

    ..And the more and more I communicate, the more it becomes evidant that people still blame BioWare for everything. (BioWare was sold in 2007 and ceased to exist, only by name)

     And now you're confusing me. Did EA fire every single dev who worked for Bioware before the purchase? Did the doctors have zero say in the developement of SWTOR? Please enlighten me.

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SuperDonk

    Imagine what Trion would be able to create with 5 years and a $200+ million dollar budget.

    A bigger clone with even more quest hubs close to each other?

    You stay sassy!

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