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I'm pretty much done.

HrimnirHrimnir Qeynos, COPosts: 1,597Member Uncommon

I can honestly say i've never been this confused by an MMO.  And i don't mean actually confused, im not a bumpkin, i mean confused by design decisions, etc.  Too many things just felt like they were change for the sake of change, and not because they actually came up with a better method.

For example.  The whole "we got rid of trinity" thing.  OK, we've well established lots of people hate Trinity, and i'm fine with getting rid of it IF you have something better to replace it with.  Or at least equal.  In this case, the replacement is far FAR FAR FAR FAR stupider.  The whole grouping dynamic in this game is just quirky and retarded and doesn't work for shit.  Its like replacing a steering wheel with an acceleration/brake lever and a joystick for steering.  Can it work? yes, is it better than a steering wheel and brake/gas pedals.  Not by a long shot.  I did story mode Arah with a surprisingly competent pug last night, and i was ready to start punching kittens by the time i was halfway through it.

Second thing.  I'm tired of being constantly on the verge of being broke.  This game has been a lesson in frustration on the aspect of money.  Everything in the game is designed to nickle and dime you to hell and back, and frankly its bullshit.  Repair costs, especially once you hit 80 and have rare or better armor, are through the friggin roof.  Transport costs are even more bullshit.  Let me give a point of reference.  Doing a level 80 event in one of the high end zones nets you something on the order of 1.75s.   In my current setup 1 death costs me 1s34c.  One port in the very same zone, if im super close to the node is about 1.5s but sometimes close to 2s.   Lets say i wanna go back to a city for some reason.  3s24c.

Now, you say, "oh well sell your blues and loot and crafting mats and you'll be fine!"  Well, thats partially true except the botters which are utterly rampant now, have saturated the market so much that things which you rarely see, like say orichalcum nodes, are basically worthless now.  2 weeks ago you would have netted 7-10s, now, its more like 1-2s for 3 orichalcum ores.  The game literally punishes you, or at least makes you feel like your being punished for trying to push harder and try more difficult stuff.  IMO its actually worse than a heavy XP penalty (and im an EQ vet so i know full well what im saying right now).  I would rather lose 1/5 of a level's worth of XP every death than have to spend 4-5s per death.

Other things.  I'm actually a fairly intelligent guy, and i have mucho experience in MMO's as i've been playing them extensively for the last 13 years.  I've never had an MMO that had so much random stupid shit that you pretty much can't figure out without extensive googling.  Mystic Forge recipes for weapons, etc?  Ha.  I'm guessing the only reason people even had a slight idea what to do with it is because of GW1 players?  Anyways.

Whats by FAR the most frustrating thing about the whole game is the fact that they did so much of it SO BRILLIANTLY.  The world is fucking AMAZING.  One of the coolest places i've ever set foot into as far as MMOs go.  The combat is smooth and fluid (although i could go for a bit more complexity).   The number of different armor sets once you hit 80 is awesome.  The character models are great. Etc.  I love that there are multiple massive cities instead of one major city where everyone congregates.  I love that you have pretty much seperate leveling paths for every race.  The heart system is pretty cool, makes things feel less restrictive than the whole questing hub thing.  I love that crafting actually rewards you with a non-trivial amount of XP, though again i could go for a much longer leveling time.

Anyways, i just can't bring myself to give a shit anymore.  I log and i don't actually feel like im progressing anything, and to me, thats what the point of an MMO is.  I've hit max level, so i cant progress levels.  Dungeon gear is the same stats as what im wearing so i just get some cool looking armor from it.  And i can't go make money because there is no viable way to do it.  Whether thats by design or just a result of botters fucking the game up, i dont know.

Either way all i can be is happy as hell that storm legion is coming out soon.

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

«134

Comments

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,816Member Uncommon

    Pro tip:

    Orr is not solo friendly.

    If you dying anywhere else well..

     

    Now I'm waiting for the posts stating GW2 PvE is easy, waypoints make the world so small ans the game hand held you at every step.

    And it is not botters - it is the difference between a TP of about 2 million vs a trade post of tens of thousands.

    On the plus side equipment is cheap.

    And going to a city is free. Returning not so much.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • SteeJanzSteeJanz Gladstone, MOPosts: 332Member Uncommon

    Yet another post completely hampered by misinformation. 

    ArenaNet never said they were getting rid of the trinity, only the hard-set roles of the "Holy Trinity".   The trinity still exists and is a must for a group to be successful in running dungeons.  The groups that are not using the trinity are the ones that are having the most problems.   I posted these tips in another thread and I think I will start posting them in all "GW2 got rid of the trinity and I don't like it threads". 

    1. You can't run a holy trinity dungeon with 5 DPS so don't expect to be able to run a soft trinity dungeon with 5 dps.
    2. Bring support oriented skills and traits that help your team.  If your utility bar is full of damage skills that only help you, cross your fingers that the other 4 people brought skills to cover your weakness.
    3. This goes with #2,  remember your a tank, healper ,and dps.  Weapon swapping can switch your role instantly when the situation calls for it.  
    4. You can change you skills and weapons during the dungeon.  If you went through the whold dungeon and never adjusted your skills or build, that's a shame because you could have been much more affective.  There are times when the group should be DPS heavy or condition removal heavy, etc....
    5. Try to learn the bosses.  Bosses aggro for different reasons, learning them will help you understand what you should do.  Sometimes, you have aggro so it's your job to avoid the boss, yes that's right, run away.  Move to avoid the heavy damage that they do, it's your turn to control the boss and your main focus should be that and not dps.  I know you didnt ask for it but it's ok you can do it.  Knowing the boss and what they will do, makes the fight much less hectic.  Pulling the boss to a good spot can help make a fight managable.  You know that same stuff you did in the holy trinity dungeons, they work in soft trinity dungeons as well.
    6. Don't let people get defeated.  It takes less then half the time to get a downed player up from a downed state then it does to get them up from a defeated state.  In hard fights you will not be able to get a defeated player up.  If someone goes down get them back up before they are defeated.  It happens in a fight, get used to it.  People keep making the charge that some fights are a rez zerg.  If you notice most the time, it's because one or  two people seem to not get defeated while the rest keep going down.  If you keep running back and the fight is still going because some other guy keeps the fight going, you should be wondering what that guy is doing and what you are not.
    7. Use a tank.  Treating the dungeon like a holy trinity run helps alot.  Having one person that can mitigate some damage early should be your tank.  Their role may change a few seconds into the fight but having some one running point and pulling and starting the fights help the team be more organized.  And you don't get 4 different people opening the pods in TA.  This also helps establish a rule that is followed in the holy trinity runs that I don't see people doing in the soft trinity runs.  When everyone runs point in the a holy trinity based dungeon you get the same chaos.
    8. Gear matters.  Sorry but it does and I know that you got to level 35 so your ready to run AC explorable mode, but I can guarantee that your party will appreciate the fact that you upgraded your level 22 armor to 35 armor before you started the dungeon.  Also, if your gear is spec'ed for power and crit's, your support skills will be less effective.  If your going support, spec that way.  Once again, the rules of the Holy trinity says that a healer doesn't heal wearing tank gear.  One maybe two people can be spec'ed for DPS, the rest need to be spec'ed for support.  Well that is if you don't want to die alot.  Think of it this way, do we want to die more or less, then spec for your answer.
    9. Use your skills wisely.  I am an engineer and I use the elixir gun because it provides alot of group support.  During condition damage heavy fights I used to throw down my super elixir so that everyone could stand in the circle so that their attacks could removed conditions.  However, it's hard for the others in the party  to notice in the fight because they have to pay attention to other things.  So now I throw it down on the boss so that others just get the benefit without having to stand any place special.  The combo happens because they attack through it not in it.
    10. Don't stand in stuff.
     
    Not sure about the next point, I couldn't get past the frist one without replying.
  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Pro tip:

    Orr is not solo friendly.

    If you dying anywhere else well..

     

    Now I'm waiting for the posts stating GW2 PvE is easy, waypoints make the world so small ans the game hand held you at every step.

    And it is not botters - it is the difference between a TP of about 2 million vs a trade post of tens of thousands.

    On the plus side equipment is cheap.

    And going to a city is free. Returning not so much.

    Orr is not solo friendly because the whole zone is littered with risen and respawn rates are crazy. Anet alreay said that they are looking into this. For me difficulty is in encounter iteself and not how many risen you can sprinkle like salt on the maps.

    However, no matter how broken or buggy ORR is, it is still my favorite zone. Even though i have been reading on official forums that a lot of players hate ORR because of mob density.

  • kluukluu san jose, CAPosts: 46Member
    Originally posted by SteeJanz

    Yet another post completely hampered by misinformation. 

    ArenaNet never said they were getting rid of the trinity, only the hard-set roles of the "Holy Trinity".   The trinity still exists and is a must for a group to be successful in running dungeons.  The groups that are not using the trinity are the ones that are having the most problems.   I posted these tips in another thread and I think I will start posting them in all "GW2 got rid of the trinity and I don't like it threads". 

    1. You can't run a holy trinity dungeon with 5 DPS so don't expect to be able to run a soft trinity dungeon with 5 dps.
    2. Bring support oriented skills and traits that help your team.  If your utility bar is full of damage skills that only help you, cross your fingers that the other 4 people brought skills to cover your weakness.
    3. This goes with #2,  remember your a tank, healper ,and dps.  Weapon swapping can switch your role instantly when the situation calls for it.  
    4. You can change you skills and weapons during the dungeon.  If you went through the whold dungeon and never adjusted your skills or build, that's a shame because you could have been much more affective.  There are times when the group should be DPS heavy or condition removal heavy, etc....
    5. Try to learn the bosses.  Bosses aggro for different reasons, learning them will help you understand what you should do.  Sometimes, you have aggro so it's your job to avoid the boss, yes that's right, run away.  Move to avoid the heavy damage that they do, it's your turn to control the boss and your main focus should be that and not dps.  I know you didnt ask for it but it's ok you can do it.  Knowing the boss and what they will do, makes the fight much less hectic.  Pulling the boss to a good spot can help make a fight managable.  You know that same stuff you did in the holy trinity dungeons, they work in soft trinity dungeons as well.
    6. Don't let people get defeated.  It takes less then half the time to get a downed player up from a downed state then it does to get them up from a defeated state.  In hard fights you will not be able to get a defeated player up.  If someone goes down get them back up before they are defeated.  It happens in a fight, get used to it.  People keep making the charge that some fights are a rez zerg.  If you notice most the time, it's because one or  two people seem to not get defeated while the rest keep going down.  If you keep running back and the fight is still going because some other guy keeps the fight going, you should be wondering what that guy is doing and what you are not.
    7. Use a tank.  Treating the dungeon like a holy trinity run helps alot.  Having one person that can mitigate some damage early should be your tank.  Their role may change a few seconds into the fight but having some one running point and pulling and starting the fights help the team be more organized.  And you don't get 4 different people opening the pods in TA.  This also helps establish a rule that is followed in the holy trinity runs that I don't see people doing in the soft trinity runs.  When everyone runs point in the a holy trinity based dungeon you get the same chaos.
    8. Gear matters.  Sorry but it does and I know that you got to level 35 so your ready to run AC explorable mode, but I can guarantee that your party will appreciate the fact that you upgraded your level 22 armor to 35 armor before you started the dungeon.  Also, if your gear is spec'ed for power and crit's, your support skills will be less effective.  If your going support, spec that way.  Once again, the rules of the Holy trinity says that a healer doesn't heal wearing tank gear.  One maybe two people can be spec'ed for DPS, the rest need to be spec'ed for support.  Well that is if you don't want to die alot.  Think of it this way, do we want to die more or less, then spec for your answer.
    9. Use your skills wisely.  I am an engineer and I use the elixir gun because it provides alot of group support.  During condition damage heavy fights I used to throw down my super elixir so that everyone could stand in the circle so that their attacks could removed conditions.  However, it's hard for the others in the party  to notice in the fight because they have to pay attention to other things.  So now I throw it down on the boss so that others just get the benefit without having to stand any place special.  The combo happens because they attack through it not in it.
    10. Don't stand in stuff.
     
    Not sure about the next point, I couldn't get past the frist one without replying.

    what the hell?

  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,873Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kluu
    Originally posted by SteeJanz

    Yet another post completely hampered by misinformation. 

    ArenaNet never said they were getting rid of the trinity, only the hard-set roles of the "Holy Trinity".   The trinity still exists and is a must for a group to be successful in running dungeons.  The groups that are not using the trinity are the ones that are having the most problems.   I posted these tips in another thread and I think I will start posting them in all "GW2 got rid of the trinity and I don't like it threads". 

    1. You can't run a holy trinity dungeon with 5 DPS so don't expect to be able to run a soft trinity dungeon with 5 dps.
    2. Bring support oriented skills and traits that help your team.  If your utility bar is full of damage skills that only help you, cross your fingers that the other 4 people brought skills to cover your weakness.
    3. This goes with #2,  remember your a tank, healper ,and dps.  Weapon swapping can switch your role instantly when the situation calls for it.  
    4. You can change you skills and weapons during the dungeon.  If you went through the whold dungeon and never adjusted your skills or build, that's a shame because you could have been much more affective.  There are times when the group should be DPS heavy or condition removal heavy, etc....
    5. Try to learn the bosses.  Bosses aggro for different reasons, learning them will help you understand what you should do.  Sometimes, you have aggro so it's your job to avoid the boss, yes that's right, run away.  Move to avoid the heavy damage that they do, it's your turn to control the boss and your main focus should be that and not dps.  I know you didnt ask for it but it's ok you can do it.  Knowing the boss and what they will do, makes the fight much less hectic.  Pulling the boss to a good spot can help make a fight managable.  You know that same stuff you did in the holy trinity dungeons, they work in soft trinity dungeons as well.
    6. Don't let people get defeated.  It takes less then half the time to get a downed player up from a downed state then it does to get them up from a defeated state.  In hard fights you will not be able to get a defeated player up.  If someone goes down get them back up before they are defeated.  It happens in a fight, get used to it.  People keep making the charge that some fights are a rez zerg.  If you notice most the time, it's because one or  two people seem to not get defeated while the rest keep going down.  If you keep running back and the fight is still going because some other guy keeps the fight going, you should be wondering what that guy is doing and what you are not.
    7. Use a tank.  Treating the dungeon like a holy trinity run helps alot.  Having one person that can mitigate some damage early should be your tank.  Their role may change a few seconds into the fight but having some one running point and pulling and starting the fights help the team be more organized.  And you don't get 4 different people opening the pods in TA.  This also helps establish a rule that is followed in the holy trinity runs that I don't see people doing in the soft trinity runs.  When everyone runs point in the a holy trinity based dungeon you get the same chaos.
    8. Gear matters.  Sorry but it does and I know that you got to level 35 so your ready to run AC explorable mode, but I can guarantee that your party will appreciate the fact that you upgraded your level 22 armor to 35 armor before you started the dungeon.  Also, if your gear is spec'ed for power and crit's, your support skills will be less effective.  If your going support, spec that way.  Once again, the rules of the Holy trinity says that a healer doesn't heal wearing tank gear.  One maybe two people can be spec'ed for DPS, the rest need to be spec'ed for support.  Well that is if you don't want to die alot.  Think of it this way, do we want to die more or less, then spec for your answer.
    9. Use your skills wisely.  I am an engineer and I use the elixir gun because it provides alot of group support.  During condition damage heavy fights I used to throw down my super elixir so that everyone could stand in the circle so that their attacks could removed conditions.  However, it's hard for the others in the party  to notice in the fight because they have to pay attention to other things.  So now I throw it down on the boss so that others just get the benefit without having to stand any place special.  The combo happens because they attack through it not in it.
    10. Don't stand in stuff.
     
    Not sure about the next point, I couldn't get past the frist one without replying.

    what the hell?

    I laughed out loud to your response.

    The game definitely has starch defenders, I will say that.

  • HrimnirHrimnir Qeynos, COPosts: 1,597Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Pro tip:

    Orr is not solo friendly.

    If you dying anywhere else well..

     

    Now I'm waiting for the posts stating GW2 PvE is easy, waypoints make the world so small ans the game hand held you at every step.

    And it is not botters - it is the difference between a TP of about 2 million vs a trade post of tens of thousands.

    On the plus side equipment is cheap.

    And going to a city is free. Returning not so much.

    You would have a valid point except that your SOLO storyline quest makes you travel through supposedly not intended for solo areas.  Personally i call bullshit, i think they just screwed the pooch.

    As for GW2 PVE, it is easy.  There is a difference between cheap and difficult.  Putting 9 million mobs in a zone and having them respawn 5 seconds after you kill them is cheap.  Hvaing little stalk things scattered around that fire a 1000 round per minute barrage of projectiles that kill you in under 1 second, is cheap.  i could go on but you get my point.  Or you dont, whatever /shrug

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member

    GW2 is pretty much a single player game, converted into an MMO.  Everyone, every player is pretty much anonymous, outside of the people you see directly in front of you, or the folks in a localized chat window.  Even then with the people in front of you, it's impossible to inspect their gear or achievements.

     

    It just lacks the social elements of other games .. /who command? inspect upgrade choices? .. for instance.

     

    It's OK just to log into once in a while because it's B2P (and P2P would have been the death of this game).  But everything is focused around the individual player, and not other players.  Why would I care if I get a legendary armor set?  Who would notice?

     

    As for the removal of the trinity, that might be OK for a light casual game, but not for an RPG.  Everyone has the same cookie cutter class .. everyone can tank, heal, and dps .. yay?  There is no importance to any role any longer .. nobody feels important in the end, they are just "another" player.

     

    I feel for you too, because I also see GW2 as having an amazing graphics engine with core ideas that are simply the best.  I only wish I felt more a part of the GW2 world whenever I log in.  As it is, nobody knows I exist, and it's a lonely experience, even if I'm in a guild.  Do they even notice when I log on?  Since everything outside of dungeons is soloable it's just bland (with dungeons why care since you can get equal gear via solo) ... It's just such an empty empty game world ..

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by kluu
     

    what the hell?

    Hahaa..exactly my thoughts after reading thtat un necessary long winded reply.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Karteli

    GW2 is pretty much a single player game, converted into an MMO.  Everyone, every player is pretty much anonymous, outside of the people you see directly in front of you, or the folks in a localized chat window.  Even then with the people in front of you, it's impossible to inspect their gear or achievements.

     

    It just lacks the social elements of other games .. /who command? inspect upgrade choices? .. for instance.

     

    It's OK just to log into once in a while because it's B2P (and P2P would have been the death of this game).  But everything is focused around the individual player, and not other players.  Why would I care if I get a legendary armor set?  Who would notice?

     

    As for the removal of the trinity, that might be OK for a light casual game, but not for an RPG.  Everyone has the same cookie cutter class .. everyone can tank, heal, and dps .. yay?  There is no importance to any role any longer .. nobody feels important in the end, they are just "another" player.

     

    I feel for you too, because I also see GW2 as having an amazing graphics engine with core ideas that are simply the best.  I only wish I felt more a part of the GW2 world whenever I log in.  As it is, nobody knows I exist, and it's a lonely experience, even if I'm in a guild.  Do they even notice when I log on?  Since everything outside of dungeons is soloable it's just bland (with dungeons why care since you can get equal gear via solo) ... It's just such an empty empty game world ..

     Nah, GW2 is the Lorena Bobbitt of MMOs. It lops off your ePeen and leaves it flopping on the floor like a goldfish after you knock the fishbowl over. There's no need for gear-checking and other trivialities that denigrate the game into a competition over whose guppy is bigger than whose.

    The fact that you're still thinking about roles demonstrates that you haven't been able to understand the combat system. You need to think about it differently than a trinity based game. Each skill has various aspects of damage, control and support tied to them and you need to use the right skills for the right situations rather than try and pigeonhole yourself into a set role. Balance and versatility will do you wonders.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • SteeJanzSteeJanz Gladstone, MOPosts: 332Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by kluu
    Originally posted by SteeJanz

    Yet another post completely hampered by misinformation. 

    what the hell?

    I laughed out loud to your response.

    The game definitely has starch defenders, I will say that.

    Maybe I should apologize for not being specific enough.  It may not have worked to get my point across.  I guess I give people too much credit for what they claim to know about.   I posted the tips because the complaint about no trinity is basically based around the dungeons and how choatic they are and that it is false to say that GW2 lacks the trinity.  The truth is, that it is incorrect.  I can say for certain that if you don't heal, do dps, or control (Trinity) you will not only not be able to complete a dungeon, you will not be able to get past the first mob.  You must do all three in GW2 just like in other trinity based games.  GW2 is a trinity based games.    The truth is that people are confusing the "Trinity" with the "Holy Trinity" or hard-set roles.  If you are going to make an arguement about a game being bad, then it should be based in fact.  You should be able to get your message across on factual information and not hope everyone "knows what you mean." 

    I thought that my points did a good job in introducing people to the fact that people are stuggling with dungeons because they are not applying the core rules they apply to the holy trinity.  For example, people expect the healers not to heal in tank gear.  People expect the healer to bring heal skills.  People put together trinity based groups in Holy Trinity runs but expect to walk into GW2 dungeons (a trinity based game,  heal, dps, control) without any rules.  It is false and ArenaNet never said it would be possible.   Players follow rules when the run the holy trinity yet expect their to be none for a soft trinity game?  Why?  As I made in my points, if you did the same thing in a Holy trinity based game, you would get the same results. 

    The "The fanboy defenders won't let you talk about criticisms of their game" is most over used response on this site and itshow cases the fact that people have nothing to provide to the conversation.  I don't care if you play GW2 or not.  i would prefer you play what ever honks your hooter.   I was merely replying to misinformation.

    What the OP should have said is that hey doenst like games without the hard-set roles of the holy trinity.   To say that GW2 lacks heals, DPS, and control (tank), is wrong.  

    Now if either or you have some disagreements to some of the points or don't understand what I was trying to say, just ask and we can discuss. 

  • eggy08eggy08 erie, PAPosts: 525Member
    Originally posted by SteeJanz

    Yet another post completely hampered by misinformation. 

    ArenaNet never said they were getting rid of the trinity, only the hard-set roles of the "Holy Trinity".   The trinity still exists and is a must for a group to be successful in running dungeons.  The groups that are not using the trinity are the ones that are having the most problems.   I posted these tips in another thread and I think I will start posting them in all "GW2 got rid of the trinity and I don't like it threads". 

    1. You can't run a holy trinity dungeon with 5 DPS so don't expect to be able to run a soft trinity dungeon with 5 dps.
    2. Bring support oriented skills and traits that help your team.  If your utility bar is full of damage skills that only help you, cross your fingers that the other 4 people brought skills to cover your weakness.
    3. This goes with #2,  remember your a tank, healper ,and dps.  Weapon swapping can switch your role instantly when the situation calls for it.  
    4. You can change you skills and weapons during the dungeon.  If you went through the whold dungeon and never adjusted your skills or build, that's a shame because you could have been much more affective.  There are times when the group should be DPS heavy or condition removal heavy, etc....
    5. Try to learn the bosses.  Bosses aggro for different reasons, learning them will help you understand what you should do.  Sometimes, you have aggro so it's your job to avoid the boss, yes that's right, run away.  Move to avoid the heavy damage that they do, it's your turn to control the boss and your main focus should be that and not dps.  I know you didnt ask for it but it's ok you can do it.  Knowing the boss and what they will do, makes the fight much less hectic.  Pulling the boss to a good spot can help make a fight managable.  You know that same stuff you did in the holy trinity dungeons, they work in soft trinity dungeons as well.
    6. Don't let people get defeated.  It takes less then half the time to get a downed player up from a downed state then it does to get them up from a defeated state.  In hard fights you will not be able to get a defeated player up.  If someone goes down get them back up before they are defeated.  It happens in a fight, get used to it.  People keep making the charge that some fights are a rez zerg.  If you notice most the time, it's because one or  two people seem to not get defeated while the rest keep going down.  If you keep running back and the fight is still going because some other guy keeps the fight going, you should be wondering what that guy is doing and what you are not.
    7. Use a tank.  Treating the dungeon like a holy trinity run helps alot.  Having one person that can mitigate some damage early should be your tank.  Their role may change a few seconds into the fight but having some one running point and pulling and starting the fights help the team be more organized.  And you don't get 4 different people opening the pods in TA.  This also helps establish a rule that is followed in the holy trinity runs that I don't see people doing in the soft trinity runs.  When everyone runs point in the a holy trinity based dungeon you get the same chaos.
    8. Gear matters.  Sorry but it does and I know that you got to level 35 so your ready to run AC explorable mode, but I can guarantee that your party will appreciate the fact that you upgraded your level 22 armor to 35 armor before you started the dungeon.  Also, if your gear is spec'ed for power and crit's, your support skills will be less effective.  If your going support, spec that way.  Once again, the rules of the Holy trinity says that a healer doesn't heal wearing tank gear.  One maybe two people can be spec'ed for DPS, the rest need to be spec'ed for support.  Well that is if you don't want to die alot.  Think of it this way, do we want to die more or less, then spec for your answer.
    9. Use your skills wisely.  I am an engineer and I use the elixir gun because it provides alot of group support.  During condition damage heavy fights I used to throw down my super elixir so that everyone could stand in the circle so that their attacks could removed conditions.  However, it's hard for the others in the party  to notice in the fight because they have to pay attention to other things.  So now I throw it down on the boss so that others just get the benefit without having to stand any place special.  The combo happens because they attack through it not in it.
    10. Don't stand in stuff.
     
    Not sure about the next point, I couldn't get past the frist one without replying.

    God, its like reading a pamphlet. And no pictures... Forget that.

    tl;dr learn to play. Absense of trinity is a myth.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Volkon
     

     Nah, GW2 is the Lorena Bobbitt of MMOs. It lops off your ePeen and leaves it flopping on the floor like a goldfish after you knock the fishbowl over. There's no need for gear-checking and other trivialities that denigrate the game into a competition over whose guppy is bigger than whose.

    The fact that you're still thinking about roles demonstrates that you haven't been able to understand the combat system. You need to think about it differently than a trinity based game. Each skill has various aspects of damage, control and support tied to them and you need to use the right skills for the right situations rather than try and pigeonhole yourself into a set role. Balance and versatility will do you wonders.

    HAHAHA:)

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • MothanosMothanos ArnhemPosts: 1,860Member Uncommon

    Dont like it dont play it ?
    You can always come back when things have changed for the better.

    I remember Warhammer / Aion / SWTOR and even WoW in 2004 that was in a much worse state then GW2 now walking a month old.

    Give Anet time to smooth out the bumbs and improve stuff people have problems with.
    They seem to be on the ball with alot of community posts and asking information about specific stuff.

    For tme thats a clear indication that they still care ALOT about the game even when they have your money.

    But no1 can make you love a game if you dont like it bro :)

    I have some complaints also like WvW and free transfers, people jumping the bandwagon to servers that do well in pvp making it a endless long queue.
    And the amount of silver for repairs in WvW - 18 silver repairs...i need to spend money on sieges 12 silver a catapult or balista etc etc :)

    making money in WvW is damn hard to ^^


    But i know things will improve over time, just give it time.


    Best option is play something else and come back in awhile ?


  • CoatedCoated Woodside, CAPosts: 339Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli

    GW2 is pretty much a single player game, converted into an MMO.  Everyone, every player is pretty much anonymous, outside of the people you see directly in front of you, or the folks in a localized chat window.  Even then with the people in front of you, it's impossible to inspect their gear or achievements.

     

    It just lacks the social elements of other games .. /who command? inspect upgrade choices? .. for instance.

     

    It's OK just to log into once in a while because it's B2P (and P2P would have been the death of this game).  But everything is focused around the individual player, and not other players.  Why would I care if I get a legendary armor set?  Who would notice?

     

    As for the removal of the trinity, that might be OK for a light casual game, but not for an RPG.  Everyone has the same cookie cutter class .. everyone can tank, heal, and dps .. yay?  There is no importance to any role any longer .. nobody feels important in the end, they are just "another" player.

     

    I feel for you too, because I also see GW2 as having an amazing graphics engine with core ideas that are simply the best.  I only wish I felt more a part of the GW2 world whenever I log in.  As it is, nobody knows I exist, and it's a lonely experience, even if I'm in a guild.  Do they even notice when I log on?  Since everything outside of dungeons is soloable it's just bland (with dungeons why care since you can get equal gear via solo) ... It's just such an empty empty game world ..

    This pretty much sums up how I feel.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,816Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hrimnir
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Pro tip:

    Orr is not solo friendly.

    If you dying anywhere else well..

     

    Now I'm waiting for the posts stating GW2 PvE is easy, waypoints make the world so small ans the game hand held you at every step.

    And it is not botters - it is the difference between a TP of about 2 million vs a trade post of tens of thousands.

    On the plus side equipment is cheap.

    And going to a city is free. Returning not so much.

    You would have a valid point except that your SOLO storyline quest makes you travel through supposedly not intended for solo areas.  Personally i call bullshit, i think they just screwed the pooch.

    As for GW2 PVE, it is easy.  There is a difference between cheap and difficult.  Putting 9 million mobs in a zone and having them respawn 5 seconds after you kill them is cheap.  Hvaing little stalk things scattered around that fire a 1000 round per minute barrage of projectiles that kill you in under 1 second, is cheap.  i could go on but you get my point.  Or you dont, whatever /shrug

    Mobs are harder as well and have better skills.

    AI Mobs always get to the point they are piss easy, they have a trick or they have big stats. No way around it.

    Stil, 3 or 4 people have a much interesting experience - that is what I've been doing with guildies.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • KareliaKarelia HeraklionPosts: 668Member
    Originally posted by Karteli

    GW2 is pretty much a single player game, converted into an MMO.  Everyone, every player is pretty much anonymous, outside of the people you see directly in front of you, or the folks in a localized chat window.  Even then with the people in front of you, it's impossible to inspect their gear or achievements.

     

    It just lacks the social elements of other games .. /who command? inspect upgrade choices? .. for instance.

     

    It's OK just to log into once in a while because it's B2P (and P2P would have been the death of this game).  But everything is focused around the individual player, and not other players.  Why would I care if I get a legendary armor set?  Who would notice?

     

    As for the removal of the trinity, that might be OK for a light casual game, but not for an RPG.  Everyone has the same cookie cutter class .. everyone can tank, heal, and dps .. yay?  There is no importance to any role any longer .. nobody feels important in the end, they are just "another" player.

     

    I feel for you too, because I also see GW2 as having an amazing graphics engine with core ideas that are simply the best.  I only wish I felt more a part of the GW2 world whenever I log in.  As it is, nobody knows I exist, and it's a lonely experience, even if I'm in a guild.  Do they even notice when I log on?  Since everything outside of dungeons is soloable it's just bland (with dungeons why care since you can get equal gear via solo) ... It's just such an empty empty game world ..

    this is GW2 indeed. nicely said

  • eggy08eggy08 erie, PAPosts: 525Member
    Originally posted by SteeJanz
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by kluu
    Originally posted by SteeJanz

    Yet another post completely hampered by misinformation. 

    what the hell?

    I laughed out loud to your response.

    The game definitely has starch defenders, I will say that.

    Maybe I should apologize for not being specific enough.  It may not have worked to get my point across.  I guess I give people too much credit for what they claim to know about.   I posted the tips because the complaint about no trinity is basically based around the dungeons and how choatic they are and that it is false to say that GW2 lacks the trinity.  The truth is, that it is incorrect.  I can say for certain that if you don't heal, do dps, or control (Trinity) you will not only not be able to complete a dungeon, you will not be able to get past the first mob.  You must do all three in GW2 just like in other trinity based games.  GW2 is a trinity based games.    The truth is that people are confusing the "Trinity" with the "Holy Trinity" or hard-set roles.  If you are going to make an arguement about a game being bad, then it should be based in fact.  You should be able to get your message across on factual information and not hope everyone "knows what you mean." 

    I thought that my points did a good job in introducing people to the fact that people are stuggling with dungeons because they are not applying the core rules they apply to the holy trinity.  For example, people expect the healers not to heal in tank gear.  People expect the healer to bring heal skills.  People put together trinity based groups in Holy Trinity runs but expect to walk into GW2 dungeons (a trinity based game,  heal, dps, control) without any rules.  It is false and ArenaNet never said it would be possible.   Players follow rules when the run the holy trinity yet expect their to be none for a soft trinity game?  Why?  As I made in my points, if you did the same thing in a Holy trinity based game, you would get the same results. 

    The "The fanboy defenders won't let you talk about criticisms of their game" is most over used response on this site and itshow cases the fact that people have nothing to provide to the conversation.  I don't care if you play GW2 or not.  i would prefer you play what ever honks your hooter.   I was merely replying to misinformation.

    What the OP should have said is that hey doenst like games without the hard-set roles of the holy trinity.   To say that GW2 lacks heals, DPS, and control (tank), is wrong.  

    Now if either or you have some disagreements to some of the points or don't understand what I was trying to say, just ask and we can discuss. 

    Lol, first point: so basically if you don't do any of these 3 things... your standing there doing nothing then? Not much else to do besides those 3 things, so I can imagine why you can't get through the first mobs of the dungeon.

    I don't know if you can really call it a "heal, dps and control" trinity. dps and control fit, healing does not. Support I'd argue for, but even that is more or less not entirely necessary. Saying that a class is a support because it brings buffs isn't entirely true. Saying a person is a control since he has an interrupt/stun/knockdown in his bar that he uses occassionally, isn't entirely a control class. People are basically a mixup of all 3 things, or at least can be, not set to that specific role. If you only do one, then your not playing your class effectively.

    And I have run many instances (including explorer) where these roles had no real bearing. I have never said nor has anyone really taken upon themselves to play only one specific role. Sometimes we have no roles at all and can still take down the dungeon. Control is a hard to master role for most. And saying that someone MUST be that role, is like saying that someone must always take the damage. Well of course people are going to take damage, but that doesn't mean that they are a control class. They aren't taking upon themselves to tank the boss, they are just trying to keep themselves alive. It's not a role, unless you specifically roll only tanking and cc abilities.

    GW2 is a very soft trinity, but there are not specific roles that certain classes must abide to. Its bogus to say that a class must follow a certain role and that the group must abide to these roles exclussively. That will make the dungeon seem worse than it is. You don't play a specific role, you play them all. Thats what GW2 gave to you. If you want to force roles on people, then it's going to take the game back to every other MMO, where individuality is shunned and the only thing your going to be asking for all day is for "a control warrior or guardian". If everyone can properly play every "role" rather than only doing one, your group will work out 10x better than the latter.

  • xDracxDrac HamburgPosts: 183Member

    Well I feel like GW2 is just pretty..... "casual"? I mean its a great freaking game, no doubt. But I just don't feel enough "progression"? I just don't feel like the shit I do matters AT ALL. 

    I just, I don't know. The game is great, but no more. It kind of feels like there's just so much you can achieve and that just doesn't seem to be enough for me. And I agree with a lot of the points the OP made.

    Lineage 3 - www.lineage3-online.com
    Web & Graphic Design - www.xdrac.com

  • gessekai332gessekai332 New York City, NYPosts: 877Member Common

    The combat and the lack of trinity system is really a love it or hate it kind of thing. Some people get it, some don't. I find that you get to see this system at its best in explorable dungeons with a group that is actually willing to cooperate with each other (which is how I spend most of my time in game currently). However, with these kind of things its hard to argue about. They do a lot of unconventional things in this game, but to me everything seems OK and adaptable, but thats probably b/c i've been playing anything that resembles an mmo for the past 10 years.

     

    It sucks that you ended up not liking in the end even though you kept at it for the past month. If its any consolation, i've always known arenanet to be very creative and diligent about getting you to like their game. I actually didnt like GW1 when it first came out, thought it was boring and when the 2nd expansion came out i thought that it was a fast cash grab and all the new stuff they added would ruin the game balance and everything would go to hell. however, i discovered that they were spot on with the new features and i liked the game even more. this trend continued for the remaining expansions until gw2. so now its just best to move on to your other mmo's for the time being and keep your hopes up. When you come back all your characters will be in tact, no pressure, no subscription fee, and a whole ton of things will have changed-maybe this time to your liking.

    Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  • Sp!k3Sp!k3 SzczecinPosts: 60Member

    It's my personal opinion.

    The game is shallow and fells like a browser game without a meaning. I tried hard to give the game a chance but I found Warhammer Online much more attractive. Crafting is soulless, combat at first dynamic fells ridicules with it's dumbed down controls. It's not a FPS that requires skill and it's not an mmorpg that require brain - it's a random modern browser gaming style game. Silly, easy, meaningless, lacking any signs of originality - perfect for the majority of our  modern society. MMOs are what we make them and with many people now days who simply can not play complex games that take time and require the player to make their own decisions rather than follow the thempark style  gamestyle we won't see anything else anytime soon.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by xDrac

    Well I feel like GW2 is just pretty..... "casual"? I mean its a great freaking game, no doubt. But I just don't feel enough "progression"? I just don't feel like the shit I do matters AT ALL. 

    I just, I don't know. The game is great, but no more. It kind of feels like there's just so much you can achieve and that just doesn't seem to be enough for me. And I agree with a lot of the points the OP made.

    I can see your point.. like many games people see progression as differn't things.. for me collecting cool looking gear getting to mix and match builds and just get better at combat is all the "progression" i need to enjoy a MMO.. others need constant stat gear progression forever to feel like the game has progression.. just differn't game styles for differn't mindsets.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • SteeJanzSteeJanz Gladstone, MOPosts: 332Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eggy08
    Originally posted by SteeJanz
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by kluu
    Originally posted by SteeJanz

    Yet another post completely hampered by misinformation. 

    what the hell?

    I laughed out loud to your response.

    The game definitely has starch defenders, I will say that.

    Maybe I should apologize for not being specific enough.  It may not have worked to get my point across.  I guess I give people too much credit for what they claim to know about.   I posted the tips because the complaint about no trinity is basically based around the dungeons and how choatic they are and that it is false to say that GW2 lacks the trinity.  The truth is, that it is incorrect.  I can say for certain that if you don't heal, do dps, or control (Trinity) you will not only not be able to complete a dungeon, you will not be able to get past the first mob.  You must do all three in GW2 just like in other trinity based games.  GW2 is a trinity based games.    The truth is that people are confusing the "Trinity" with the "Holy Trinity" or hard-set roles.  If you are going to make an arguement about a game being bad, then it should be based in fact.  You should be able to get your message across on factual information and not hope everyone "knows what you mean." 

    I thought that my points did a good job in introducing people to the fact that people are stuggling with dungeons because they are not applying the core rules they apply to the holy trinity.  For example, people expect the healers not to heal in tank gear.  People expect the healer to bring heal skills.  People put together trinity based groups in Holy Trinity runs but expect to walk into GW2 dungeons (a trinity based game,  heal, dps, control) without any rules.  It is false and ArenaNet never said it would be possible.   Players follow rules when the run the holy trinity yet expect their to be none for a soft trinity game?  Why?  As I made in my points, if you did the same thing in a Holy trinity based game, you would get the same results. 

    The "The fanboy defenders won't let you talk about criticisms of their game" is most over used response on this site and itshow cases the fact that people have nothing to provide to the conversation.  I don't care if you play GW2 or not.  i would prefer you play what ever honks your hooter.   I was merely replying to misinformation.

    What the OP should have said is that hey doenst like games without the hard-set roles of the holy trinity.   To say that GW2 lacks heals, DPS, and control (tank), is wrong.  

    Now if either or you have some disagreements to some of the points or don't understand what I was trying to say, just ask and we can discuss. 

    Lol, first point: so basically if you don't do any of these 3 things... your standing there doing nothing then? Not much else to do besides those 3 things, so I can imagine why you can't get through the first mobs of the dungeon.

    I don't know if you can really call it a "heal, dps and control" trinity. dps and control fit, healing does not. Support I'd argue for, but even that is more or less not entirely necessary. Saying that a class is a support because it brings buffs isn't entirely true. Saying a person is a control since he has an interrupt/stun/knockdown in his bar that he uses occassionally, isn't entirely a control class. People are basically a mixup of all 3 things, or at least can be, not set to that specific role. If you only do one, then your not playing your class effectively.

    And I have run many instances (including explorer) where these roles had no real bearing. I have never said nor has anyone really taken upon themselves to play only one specific role. Sometimes we have no roles at all and can still take down the dungeon. Control is a hard to master role for most. And saying that someone MUST be that role, is like saying that someone must always take the damage. Well of course people are going to take damage, but that doesn't mean that they are a control class. They aren't taking upon themselves to tank the boss, they are just trying to keep themselves alive. It's not a role, unless you specifically roll only tanking and cc abilities.

    GW2 is a very soft trinity, but there are not specific roles that certain classes must abide to. Its bogus to say that a class must follow a certain role and that the group must abide to these roles exclussively. That will make the dungeon seem worse than it is. You don't play a specific role, you play them all. Thats what GW2 gave to you. If you want to force roles on people, then it's going to take the game back to every other MMO, where individuality is shunned and the only thing your going to be asking for all day is for "a control warrior or guardian". If everyone can properly play every "role" rather than only doing one, your group will work out 10x better than the latter.

    I absolutely still stand by what I said.  All three of them are required.  I never said that the each of those must be provided by an individual.  On the contrary, what people struggle with is the fact that everyone has to actively participate in all three to be successful (enjoyable dungeon runs).  But I can absolutely say that if heals are not used, you won't make it through the dungeon.  I can absolutely say that if you don't dps, you won't make it through a dungeon.  I can absolutely say that if you don't find a way to control the boss, you may not make it through the dungeon.  If a group has all three and everybody actively participates in facilitating each one, then dungeons go much smoother.  The problem is that people don't do that and then complain.  The advantage to the Holy Trinity is that people understand what their role is and what is expected of them.  It is harder to determine that in GW2, especially when it happens on the fly.    It's a bit of a stretch on my part say that you wouldn't make it through the first mob but, it certainly wouldn't go as smoothly.  :)

     

  • eggy08eggy08 erie, PAPosts: 525Member
    Originally posted by SteeJanz
    Originally posted by eggy08
    Originally posted by SteeJanz
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by kluu
    Originally posted by SteeJanz

    Yet another post completely hampered by misinformation. 

    what the hell?

    I laughed out loud to your response.

    The game definitely has starch defenders, I will say that.

    Maybe I should apologize for not being specific enough.  It may not have worked to get my point across.  I guess I give people too much credit for what they claim to know about.   I posted the tips because the complaint about no trinity is basically based around the dungeons and how choatic they are and that it is false to say that GW2 lacks the trinity.  The truth is, that it is incorrect.  I can say for certain that if you don't heal, do dps, or control (Trinity) you will not only not be able to complete a dungeon, you will not be able to get past the first mob.  You must do all three in GW2 just like in other trinity based games.  GW2 is a trinity based games.    The truth is that people are confusing the "Trinity" with the "Holy Trinity" or hard-set roles.  If you are going to make an arguement about a game being bad, then it should be based in fact.  You should be able to get your message across on factual information and not hope everyone "knows what you mean." 

    I thought that my points did a good job in introducing people to the fact that people are stuggling with dungeons because they are not applying the core rules they apply to the holy trinity.  For example, people expect the healers not to heal in tank gear.  People expect the healer to bring heal skills.  People put together trinity based groups in Holy Trinity runs but expect to walk into GW2 dungeons (a trinity based game,  heal, dps, control) without any rules.  It is false and ArenaNet never said it would be possible.   Players follow rules when the run the holy trinity yet expect their to be none for a soft trinity game?  Why?  As I made in my points, if you did the same thing in a Holy trinity based game, you would get the same results. 

    The "The fanboy defenders won't let you talk about criticisms of their game" is most over used response on this site and itshow cases the fact that people have nothing to provide to the conversation.  I don't care if you play GW2 or not.  i would prefer you play what ever honks your hooter.   I was merely replying to misinformation.

    What the OP should have said is that hey doenst like games without the hard-set roles of the holy trinity.   To say that GW2 lacks heals, DPS, and control (tank), is wrong.  

    Now if either or you have some disagreements to some of the points or don't understand what I was trying to say, just ask and we can discuss. 

    Lol, first point: so basically if you don't do any of these 3 things... your standing there doing nothing then? Not much else to do besides those 3 things, so I can imagine why you can't get through the first mobs of the dungeon.

    I don't know if you can really call it a "heal, dps and control" trinity. dps and control fit, healing does not. Support I'd argue for, but even that is more or less not entirely necessary. Saying that a class is a support because it brings buffs isn't entirely true. Saying a person is a control since he has an interrupt/stun/knockdown in his bar that he uses occassionally, isn't entirely a control class. People are basically a mixup of all 3 things, or at least can be, not set to that specific role. If you only do one, then your not playing your class effectively.

    And I have run many instances (including explorer) where these roles had no real bearing. I have never said nor has anyone really taken upon themselves to play only one specific role. Sometimes we have no roles at all and can still take down the dungeon. Control is a hard to master role for most. And saying that someone MUST be that role, is like saying that someone must always take the damage. Well of course people are going to take damage, but that doesn't mean that they are a control class. They aren't taking upon themselves to tank the boss, they are just trying to keep themselves alive. It's not a role, unless you specifically roll only tanking and cc abilities.

    GW2 is a very soft trinity, but there are not specific roles that certain classes must abide to. Its bogus to say that a class must follow a certain role and that the group must abide to these roles exclussively. That will make the dungeon seem worse than it is. You don't play a specific role, you play them all. Thats what GW2 gave to you. If you want to force roles on people, then it's going to take the game back to every other MMO, where individuality is shunned and the only thing your going to be asking for all day is for "a control warrior or guardian". If everyone can properly play every "role" rather than only doing one, your group will work out 10x better than the latter.

    I absolutely still stand by what I said.  All three of them are required.  I never said that the each of those must be provided by an individual.  On the contrary, what people struggle with is the fact that everyone has to actively participate in all three to be successful (enjoyable dungeon runs).  But I can absolutely say that if heals are not used, you won't make it through the dungeon.  I can absolutely say that if you don't dps, you won't make it through a dungeon.  I can absolutely say that if you don't find a way to control the boss, you may not make it through the dungeon.  If a group has all three and everybody actively participates in facilitating each one, then dungeons go much smoother.  The problem is that people don't do that and then complain.  The advantage to the Holy Trinity is that people understand what their role is and what is expected of them.  It is harder to determine that in GW2, especially when it happens on the fly.    It's a bit of a stretch on my part say that you wouldn't make it through the first mob but, it certainly wouldn't go as smoothly.  :)

     

    I still vote support over heals. Heals is far too vague, mainly since most classes can only really heal themselves. But, removing conditions, buffs and some occassional heals for the team would fit in a support role over heals. And I have yet to really see any class that I would say fits a healer in any of the runs I have experienced. So I can honestly say that heals is not necessary in a group, but support can be.

  • drakaenadrakaena Posts: 488Member Uncommon

    You are playing it wrong! 

    But seriously, gear progression is ingrained into our nerdy DNA. Wasn't it cool when Bilbo discovered Sting in a Troll cave or The Ring in the escape from the Goblins by Golems lake. What about when Gandalf returned with White robes or Aragon forged the Kings sword. Those were all gear upgrades! And memorable ones at that. We like this sort of thing. We really do.

    That, and social connections are what keep people playing these types of games longterm.

    GW2 is sorely lacking in these two areas IMO. 

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by SteeJanz
    Originally posted by eggy08
     

    Lol, first point: so basically if you don't do any of these 3 things... your standing there doing nothing then? Not much else to do besides those 3 things, so I can imagine why you can't get through the first mobs of the dungeon.

    I don't know if you can really call it a "heal, dps and control" trinity. dps and control fit, healing does not. Support I'd argue for, but even that is more or less not entirely necessary. Saying that a class is a support because it brings buffs isn't entirely true. Saying a person is a control since he has an interrupt/stun/knockdown in his bar that he uses occassionally, isn't entirely a control class. People are basically a mixup of all 3 things, or at least can be, not set to that specific role. If you only do one, then your not playing your class effectively.

    And I have run many instances (including explorer) where these roles had no real bearing. I have never said nor has anyone really taken upon themselves to play only one specific role. Sometimes we have no roles at all and can still take down the dungeon. Control is a hard to master role for most. And saying that someone MUST be that role, is like saying that someone must always take the damage. Well of course people are going to take damage, but that doesn't mean that they are a control class. They aren't taking upon themselves to tank the boss, they are just trying to keep themselves alive. It's not a role, unless you specifically roll only tanking and cc abilities.

    GW2 is a very soft trinity, but there are not specific roles that certain classes must abide to. Its bogus to say that a class must follow a certain role and that the group must abide to these roles exclussively. That will make the dungeon seem worse than it is. You don't play a specific role, you play them all. Thats what GW2 gave to you. If you want to force roles on people, then it's going to take the game back to every other MMO, where individuality is shunned and the only thing your going to be asking for all day is for "a control warrior or guardian". If everyone can properly play every "role" rather than only doing one, your group will work out 10x better than the latter.

    I absolutely still stand by what I said.  All three of them are required.  I never said that the each of those must be provided by an individual.  On the contrary, what people struggle with is the fact that everyone has to actively participate in all three to be successful (enjoyable dungeon runs).  But I can absolutely say that if heals are not used, you won't make it through the dungeon.  I can absolutely say that if you don't dps, you won't make it through a dungeon.  I can absolutely say that if you don't find a way to control the boss, you may not make it through the dungeon.  If a group has all three and everybody actively participates in facilitating each one, then dungeons go much smoother.  The problem is that people don't do that and then complain.  The advantage to the Holy Trinity is that people understand what their role is and what is expected of them.  It is harder to determine that in GW2, especially when it happens on the fly.    It's a bit of a stretch on my part say that you wouldn't make it through the first mob but, it certainly wouldn't go as smoothly.  :)

     

    more i play more game seems to rely on more of a dual role system as opposed to trinity.. if you can run good control and dps you can get by in most encounters I have been though unless you count your self heal as "support".. support obviously helps and makes things much easier but hasn't seemed to been a required component as much as dps and control are essential in most group conflicts I have experienced.. I haven't experienced a good portion of the dungeons though so support may be more necessary in others.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

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