After seeing Bullfrog, Origin, Westwood, and Mythic, all game companies I enjoyed the products of, get destroyed by EA, this comes as no surprise. It really is a shame.
Ten years ago, I was a huge fan of Bioware games: the BG series was one of the funnest AD&D RPGs ever released on the computer, and that is after having played many of the SSI ones. Then there was NWN. I did not like the original campaign that much, but the expacs were all great. I of course loved the GM tools and the modability of the game.
KoToR was great, though slightly flawed in execution. The last decent RPGs they released were DA Origins and ME1.
As OP says, they paved the way to other studios making great games on their engines as well. For the Infinity engine, there was Torment, the IWD series, and for the Aurora engine, there was NWN2 and KoToR2.
But even DA Origins and ME1 started showing lesser quality, so unfortunately this studio has been really going down the pan for a long time, even before EA got on board. EA is just helping to accelerate it.
I am starting to think that it is virtually impossible to make a good RPG with exclusively making money as the main objective. BG1 and 2 were made with such love, the sort of love I have only been seeing in indie-developed games recently. What would have been wrong with Bioware going the non-movie route and sticking to their old premise of using 2D or simple 3D graphics?
I think the move to make RPGs more like interactive movies is the wrong route and is costing us players really great games because it is obvious that the movie-making aspect is what is so costly. I would prefer simpler graphics, less cutscenes and blah blah, and better storylines, more challenging play, and better choices. Less flash and more bang!
"game development and it comes down to profit vs. art. According to Mr. Pachter, some developers, including many Japanese developers, or even American developers such as Rockstar, will take their time developing their game until they feel it is essentially as perfect as can be. As awesome as these games often end up being, the potential return-on-investment is not nearly as strong as it would be had those developers stuck to shorter development cycles and produced more titles in the same period of time, but that's fine with these developers."
This has also resulted in many Pc gamers staying away from anything EA even more now, you can put the Dice Pc gamers with them now, they'll not be stung again by buying BF4 now that Dice has suffered the same death at the hands of EA. This will affect EA in the long run. They have two decades of eating up single successful game development companies and spitting out what's left. Now EA fast food game development is in overdrive. Best thing Pc gamers can do for their hobby is when it comes to EA close your wallet!
"In short, I’m confident in the talent at BioWare to continue making games worthy of the BioWare brand"
When the inspiration that drew the talent to Bioware is gone, they'll slowly disappear one by one to other opportunities where their talents can take their time and be better respected and their creativity breath, instead of the suffocation EA is on their ability to manoeuvre and apply their talents imho.
I loved BioWare with all my heart. Thier games made you feel so invested. Mass Effect, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, NWN2, all beautiful. Mass Effect 2 was ok. But it showed with Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3, and SWTOR that EA has poisoned and is now killing yet another company.
I hate to say this, and this is my own personal opinion, I speak for no one else here at MMORPG.com, but to me, BioWare is now officially dead. Destroyed like Westwood Studios was destroyed. Thank you, EA, you greedy bastards. You just killed another company for your lust of money. Go burn in hell.
Personally did I think NWN2 was trash compared to the first game but it really doesnt matter here since it was made by Obsidian after Atari bought the Forgotten realms license.
As I see it Bioware started falling after KOTOR so I dont think it is just EAs fault here, even if they have a lot of the blame. But this sounds a lot like the nast nail in the coffin.
Originally posted by chryses I have first hand experience of two cultures like this not mixing. I worked for many years in large financial organisations. The 1st one was all about the 'Art' side and would take a long time to ensure everything was just right and any financial software release was on a 6 month cycle.
I then went to the other side where the organisation knew it was putting out crap code but they made a ton of cash quick. Their development cycyle was 6 weeks. Developers who wanted the 'Art' type of environment left and those that just wanted the cash stayed. Interestingly their methodology was, 'we will release crap code for trading platforms then scrap it 2 months later'.
I enjoyed success at both organisations but its amazing to see the differences in the same industry. I personally feel Bioware is just a name now with EA trying to maximise any cash from its goodwill. Once that is gone the name will go with it.
That's basically a good analysis on nearly every major company around the globe is like now. Even good automobile companies are doing it, Honda for eg sends their parts to China, Canada and Mexico to have them manufactured and assembled because it's cheaper than having it all done in Japan and they can mass produce more.
For big businesses, it's quantity that makes money, quality are more for the small (local) businesses and those are disappearing.
PS- I hate to say it but I think Dice is next on EA's "companies to destroy" list, all the good companies that were with EA has been done in (I miss Maxis) and Bioware is the latest victim. I think it's smart of these two Docs to bail while they can.
That's all they had, huh? Oh well. Good luck with your future endeavors. BioWare was good at telling stories but not that hot at making worlds of their own. Dragon Age is a boring world. Mass Effect had potential but now I don't give a damn about the IP. Star Wars and Forgotten Realms is all they had going for them really.
And just for the record, NWN 2 was way better than NWN. Mask of the Betrayer was a great game, and the keep building in NWN 2 felt like it actually mattered.
I lost faith in any Bioware production the moment they sold out to the dark side. The funeral was SWTOR and any fallout that remains is just what EA leaves in its wake. I wonder if any of the originals like the Doctors, feel remorse for how far their vision may have fallen?
EA and any other studio they plan on absorbing into their grey gelatinous mass has been and will remain on my boycott list.
I loved BioWare with all my heart. Thier games made you feel so invested. Mass Effect, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, NWN2, all beautiful. Mass Effect 2 was ok. But it showed with Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3, and SWTOR that EA has poisoned and is now killing yet another company.
I hate to say this, and this is my own personal opinion, I speak for no one else here at MMORPG.com, but to me, BioWare is now officially dead. Destroyed like Westwood Studios was destroyed. Thank you, EA, you greedy bastards. You just killed another company for your lust of money. Go burn in hell.
Getting DAO at all felt like we were being given a last chance for a real RPG. I sort of had this sinking feeling that I was seeing the end of an era and DA2 justified those fears. It is nice to see I am not alone in lamenting the passing of PC based RPGs made with depth and style. My money will be going to indi developers like Aventurine who are willing to take a risk at making a game they would want to play. At least for now.
I really didint hold out much hope for DA3 and even less with this news.
Bioware was spiraling the drain for a long time. I'm glad to see this to be honest. The days of Bioware making a good game are long since gone. I haven't played a good game from them since Mass Effect 2. Everything else is absolute garbage. I hope this time the doctors both stay gone. Not interested in their interjecting politics into every single game that they make. As far as I am concerned they earned this in spades. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Banegrivm Leader of the 1st Fist of Light www.1stfistoflight.com
It is sad to see the news, but not surprising. They made thier mark and now have no way to influence the game market at EA so it was time to move on.
EA is still in business because they make fast food games that sell "EA Sports" and they have tons of money from the Sim franchises they exploited. This is just the sign that Bioware is finished. EA should have left well enough alone and the desission makers at Bioware should never have allowed this sale. Sony would have even been better that EA. (shutters at the thought) but there are how many large gaming companies out there, someone would have gladdly grabbed up Bioware and kept it original. As for SWTOR I blame EA for shotening the timeline on the release of the game, it was well on its way to being great and then EA said we want it out for this christmas not next one. Whats next on EA's agenda... Nintendo, Activision, NCSoft or maybe Steam. You know they are looking for the next great thing to destroy.
These guys started making games because they loved 'em - and nothing gets that point across more than people who are already making a great salary (as doctors), that decide to switch careers to doing what they love.
The only reason I am watching Bioware for the moment is because I believe Casey Hudson (Mass Effect creator) is a visionary developer, and has a great passion for the games he makes. I think when he finally leaves, that company will finally be kaput.
"However, Valve company president Gabe Newell said the company would "disintegrate" if it was purchased by another company.
"It's way more likely we would head in that direction than say, 'Let's find some giant company that wants to cash us out and wait two or three years to have our employment agreements terminate,' " he said."
Wow look at that photo of Peter Moore in that article. Complete with red shirt shitting in a red chair he looks like one of Satan's diciples. If you zoom in you can see the horns.
That explains alot. Maybe the anti-christ is the EA CEO..
Since Bioware is now owned by EA , I don't blame them for leaving. EA destoryed BW's reputation and following. If had know EA was pulling the strings on SWTOR I NEVER would have bought it. (and now its going f2p)
You (The Doctors, NOT EA) will always be forever remembered here for allowing me to build my huge Drangonlance NWN1 World and the best toolset and scripting around.
Aparently the reason for their leaving is fan negativity towards Mass Effect 3 and SWTOR. Can't blame them, there was a lot of unfair negative criticsm of both games.
Comments
After seeing Bullfrog, Origin, Westwood, and Mythic, all game companies I enjoyed the products of, get destroyed by EA, this comes as no surprise. It really is a shame.
Ten years ago, I was a huge fan of Bioware games: the BG series was one of the funnest AD&D RPGs ever released on the computer, and that is after having played many of the SSI ones. Then there was NWN. I did not like the original campaign that much, but the expacs were all great. I of course loved the GM tools and the modability of the game.
KoToR was great, though slightly flawed in execution. The last decent RPGs they released were DA Origins and ME1.
As OP says, they paved the way to other studios making great games on their engines as well. For the Infinity engine, there was Torment, the IWD series, and for the Aurora engine, there was NWN2 and KoToR2.
But even DA Origins and ME1 started showing lesser quality, so unfortunately this studio has been really going down the pan for a long time, even before EA got on board. EA is just helping to accelerate it.
I am starting to think that it is virtually impossible to make a good RPG with exclusively making money as the main objective. BG1 and 2 were made with such love, the sort of love I have only been seeing in indie-developed games recently. What would have been wrong with Bioware going the non-movie route and sticking to their old premise of using 2D or simple 3D graphics?
I think the move to make RPGs more like interactive movies is the wrong route and is costing us players really great games because it is obvious that the movie-making aspect is what is so costly. I would prefer simpler graphics, less cutscenes and blah blah, and better storylines, more challenging play, and better choices. Less flash and more bang!
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
"game development and it comes down to profit vs. art. According to Mr. Pachter, some developers, including many Japanese developers, or even American developers such as Rockstar, will take their time developing their game until they feel it is essentially as perfect as can be. As awesome as these games often end up being, the potential return-on-investment is not nearly as strong as it would be had those developers stuck to shorter development cycles and produced more titles in the same period of time, but that's fine with these developers."
This has also resulted in many Pc gamers staying away from anything EA even more now, you can put the Dice Pc gamers with them now, they'll not be stung again by buying BF4 now that Dice has suffered the same death at the hands of EA. This will affect EA in the long run. They have two decades of eating up single successful game development companies and spitting out what's left. Now EA fast food game development is in overdrive. Best thing Pc gamers can do for their hobby is when it comes to EA close your wallet!
"In short, I’m confident in the talent at BioWare to continue making games worthy of the BioWare brand"
When the inspiration that drew the talent to Bioware is gone, they'll slowly disappear one by one to other opportunities where their talents can take their time and be better respected and their creativity breath, instead of the suffocation EA is on their ability to manoeuvre and apply their talents imho.
Personally did I think NWN2 was trash compared to the first game but it really doesnt matter here since it was made by Obsidian after Atari bought the Forgotten realms license.
As I see it Bioware started falling after KOTOR so I dont think it is just EAs fault here, even if they have a lot of the blame. But this sounds a lot like the nast nail in the coffin.
For big businesses, it's quantity that makes money, quality are more for the small (local) businesses and those are disappearing.
PS- I hate to say it but I think Dice is next on EA's "companies to destroy" list, all the good companies that were with EA has been done in (I miss Maxis) and Bioware is the latest victim. I think it's smart of these two Docs to bail while they can.
I lost faith in any Bioware production the moment they sold out to the dark side. The funeral was SWTOR and any fallout that remains is just what EA leaves in its wake. I wonder if any of the originals like the Doctors, feel remorse for how far their vision may have fallen?
EA and any other studio they plan on absorbing into their grey gelatinous mass has been and will remain on my boycott list.
nothing was wrong with me3 except the ending
FIXED!
Yep... Hope that kinds of inExile and Obsidian can make new games to genre...
Getting DAO at all felt like we were being given a last chance for a real RPG. I sort of had this sinking feeling that I was seeing the end of an era and DA2 justified those fears. It is nice to see I am not alone in lamenting the passing of PC based RPGs made with depth and style. My money will be going to indi developers like Aventurine who are willing to take a risk at making a game they would want to play. At least for now.
I really didint hold out much hope for DA3 and even less with this news.
Banegrivm
Leader of the 1st Fist of Light
www.1stfistoflight.com
EA kills yet another great company.
BW died the day EA bought them or as spin doctors would say, these two great companies merged into single more competative entity.
It is sad to see the news, but not surprising. They made thier mark and now have no way to influence the game market at EA so it was time to move on.
EA is still in business because they make fast food games that sell "EA Sports" and they have tons of money from the Sim franchises they exploited. This is just the sign that Bioware is finished. EA should have left well enough alone and the desission makers at Bioware should never have allowed this sale. Sony would have even been better that EA. (shutters at the thought) but there are how many large gaming companies out there, someone would have gladdly grabbed up Bioware and kept it original. As for SWTOR I blame EA for shotening the timeline on the release of the game, it was well on its way to being great and then EA said we want it out for this christmas not next one. Whats next on EA's agenda... Nintendo, Activision, NCSoft or maybe Steam. You know they are looking for the next great thing to destroy.
It's not Bioware without the Docs.
These guys started making games because they loved 'em - and nothing gets that point across more than people who are already making a great salary (as doctors), that decide to switch careers to doing what they love.
The only reason I am watching Bioware for the moment is because I believe Casey Hudson (Mass Effect creator) is a visionary developer, and has a great passion for the games he makes. I think when he finally leaves, that company will finally be kaput.
Wow look at that photo of Peter Moore in that article. Complete with red shirt shitting in a red chair he looks like one of Satan's diciples. If you zoom in you can see the horns.
That explains alot. Maybe the anti-christ is the EA CEO..
NCSoft is already intent on self-destruction, so I doubt they are next up. Borg don't infect suicidal hosts, only useful and healthy ones.
Since Bioware is now owned by EA , I don't blame them for leaving. EA destoryed BW's reputation and following. If had know EA was pulling the strings on SWTOR I NEVER would have bought it. (and now its going f2p)
You (The Doctors, NOT EA) will always be forever remembered here for allowing me to build my huge Drangonlance NWN1 World and the best toolset and scripting around.