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I love that dungeons are truly challenging for the first time since EQ in MMOGs. So many people have been facerolling through raiding for SO many years now that when they try out GW2 dungeons and get hit by the truck that is their difficulty, they come to uttery HATE them.
To me, they are crazy fun but then again I really enjoy a true challenge (I remember the days of EQ where you one wrong slip and you were f*cked in high end dungeons). With a good guild or group that has solid communication, with skilled players who build around control and support, with good use of combos, and a tactical mindset makes doing the dungeons (especially explorable mode) a lot more fun while still being challenging as hell.
Wow, after reading the posts in this thread you would think I have been playnig a different game all together. I regularly get into dungeons, I regularly get asked to be on dungeon runs, and most of the invites aren't even guildies.
I play a guardian, 'self-reliant' spec if you want to call it that. I build on my symbols, heals tick on my entire team all the time when they are around me, my virtues passives follow through to them as well, and the actives are always popping up when needed to help the team. In multiple mob encounters I play mostly an off-tank/kiter role since i have enough toughness, vitality, and healing power to keep myself up while holding 2 or 3 off the team while they concentrate on buring the one down before grabbing another one off me. There isnt a taunt, but if you play it smart, and be the only one dishing damage to a target, you will maintain a reliable 'follow' on you. Notice how I said follow and not tank there, if you try and tank 2 or 3 by yourself, you will die, dont be stupid...move.
Sure I have been on runs where we got in way over our head, where the off-tank/kite didnt take because someone jumped the gun and topped a few AoE on them before I could get them split. It takes good communication between everyone on the team, at every encounter to get it right. After a couple of runs with the same people it all goes rather smooth, and this is without vent or any type of voice chat too. If you are getting nothing but wipes and 'chaos' at every turn, you need to think better, plan better, and I'm not just talking about who gets what mob in what order. You need to plan your skills, your traits, what weapons you use at what time and against what. You will need to swap your primary and secondary weapon sets around many times in a single dungeon depending on what your going after at that particular time. You can't just walk in the door with your staff up all the time and expect to be useful.
I'm sorry, but honestly I have to agree with the people here that say everyone has gotten too used to the faceroll mechanics of raiding in other games. Time to learn again, or....continue to get wiped I guess.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Originally posted by Jetrpg Originally posted by Kumate This game by far has blown me away in almost every category, the gameplay is fun and the world is bueatiful. The Dynamic events are a great way to level because there is no go fletch quest hubs and so on, but last night I tried a dungeon for the first time. I was a a level 50 Ranger doing a level 40 CM story mode. I had heard the horror stories of how unorganized, zerg fest they were but I kept telling myself I've played MMO's for so long that it can't be that bad. It was, the lack of a trinity was clear right away. When entering the zone we started thru the story. First mob is a Golem, solo, and didn't go to bad. One death by a warrior but we got him up fast. I'm thinking ok, not to shabby. Second group of mobs is where it all went downhill. Your first pull there is about 4-5 mobs. Each one of them are "elite" which means even if all 5 of us are attacking it, it takes about 45-60 seconds to burn it down. Except there is no way to do ANYTHING about the other 4 beating on you. There is no tanking, no offtanking, no CC that is worth it. Most CC in this game last 3 seconds maybe. So needless to say, nearly every pull was a wipe. We spent as much time rezing people as we did fighting. We beat the dungeon, but our strat was to all attack one mob, burn it down hopefully before we wiped, and come back and do it again. We would burn the barrel placers first and so on. I know that CM was made harder recenetly, but this was just storymode. I felt like I didn't learn anything from the story because I was to busy cringing at this system. There was NOTHING FUN about this dungeon. We also had a person quit and we had to replace them during this dungeon because he said (sorry guys..this dugeon system is horrible..I am going to uninstall). My character was setup for PVE and grouping. I had healing spring with some points into healing, search and rescue to help with rezing and the healing spirit. There was no way to heal thru that damage. We also had a guardian and that helped some but just prolonged how long it took us to wipe. I miss my healers, tanks, and true CC. I lost motivation to level now because I do enjoy PVE more then PVP and knowing that is all I have to look forward to in dungeons is quite dishearting. I love every other aspect of this game, crafting, quest, pvp, graphics, but this is to core of a system for me to overlook. There is a difference between core mehanics and difficulty. The core mechanics on dungeons is just broke. Even if they made it super easy and a zerg fest, there would still be no "skill" to the system. It is either boring no pay attention killing, or just a wipe and res as fast as you can event. I miss strategy.
Whats even wrost is dungeons exp IS NOW NOT WORTH ANYTHING. eASILY THE HARDEST CONTENT WITH NO REWARD.... FAIL.
PS i love gw2 but anet messed up bad on this one.
You might want to look at the newest patch notes, me thinks your entire basis on NO REWARD is... put to rest.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Originally posted by Wolvards Whats even wrost is dungeons exp IS NOW NOT WORTH ANYTHING. eASILY THE HARDEST CONTENT WITH NO REWARD.... FAIL. PS i love gw2 but anet messed up bad on this one.
Dungeon RewardsWe’ve made some significant updates to dungeon rewards. I wanted to try and clarify them here. All of these changes have been the result of an original exploit which was letting players receive upwards of 20 levels by completing a single dungeon run. We initially closed this exploit, which caused some new problems. The result is this new system which should increase dungeon rewards for players who play though them normally but help curb inflation of rewards for those who are using exploitative methods to farm them.
1) Dungeon tokens are now rewarded at the end of an explorable chain. This was done to stop players from repeatedly entering a chain and farming the first boss that dropped tokens rather than playing the entire chain. At some point in the near future, we will make up for this by making dungeon tokens a rare drop so that even players who are not completing a chain can make partial progress toward the rewards. 2) Dungeons reward 20 tokens for completion and now reward an additional 40 tokens for the first time they are completed each day. This means that if players can complete all 3 chains of a dungeon in a day, they’ll receive a total of 180 tokens, which is enough to purchase some of the smaller rewards.3) Dungeon tokens should be account bound. This will allow players to have a single character farm tokens for their other characters.4) Last week, to limit the most extreme cases of dungeon speed-clearing, we introduced a system to limit rewards for rapidly repeating dungeon clears. However, a bug in that system caused it to impact more players than intended. This week, we’re updating the system to not impact clearing different chains of the same dungeon. We’ll continue to evaluate this system in coming weeks.
sounds reasonable to me
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
This is exactly my take of the situation with dungeons in this game and with every single piece of PVE in this game. I play MMOs for PVE not PVP. If i want to PVP ill play something like Dota 2 or DayZ. I stopped playing GW2 because it got boring really fast. The dungeon system just felt like a zerg feast as well. And it was all a problem for me. I used ot love being a healer in every and any game i could get my hands on. I started doing this in Everquest and even in some ways in Asherons call, but in GW its litterally impossible to spec into a support class and be useful. I played a guardian to lvl 80 and an elementalist to lvl 80 as well. Once i hit lvl 80 as my guardian i decided to do my first dungeon with my guild. It wasnt pretty. even with the class combos and all the different trait skills we had unlocked we failed at every boss fight to the point where we would try to make sure each person would die one after the other so that we could keep the boss at its current HP, essentually what would happen is we would go in do damage, die, rez, run in do damage die... etc etc.
While, i think healing needed to be redisigned because staring at a UI thats just HP meters isnt exactly the most exciting thing in the world, i dont think it needed to be done away with. Everything in this game is so smashed up that it just feels disjointed and boring as hell. If you like it, more power to you, but arenanet, you failed in my eyes.... Hard.
Originally posted by abeltensor This is exactly my take of the situation with dungeons in this game and with every single piece of PVE in this game. I play MMOs for PVE not PVP. If i want to PVP ill play something like Dota 2 or DayZ. I stopped playing GW2 because it got boring really fast. The dungeon system just felt like a zerg feast as well. And it was all a problem for me. I used ot love being a healer in every and any game i could get my hands on. I started doing this in Everquest and even in some ways in Asherons call, but in GW its litterally impossible to spec into a support class and be useful. I played a guardian to lvl 80 and an elementalist to lvl 80 as well. Once i hit lvl 80 as my guardian i decided to do my first dungeon with my guild. It wasnt pretty. even with the class combos and all the different trait skills we had unlocked we failed at every boss fight to the point where we would try to make sure each person would die one after the other so that we could keep the boss at its current HP, essentually what would happen is we would go in do damage, die, rez, run in do damage die... etc etc. While, i think healing needed to be redisigned because staring at a UI thats just HP meters isnt exactly the most exciting thing in the world, i dont think it needed to be done away with. Everything in this game is so smashed up that it just feels disjointed and boring as hell. If you like it, more power to you, but arenanet, you failed in my eyes.... Hard.
I think this game is the hardest on those who liiked playing healers in other games. I dont think that support is particularly effective in the dungeons.
Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Originally posted by maskedweasel Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Originally posted by maskedweasel Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Originally posted by TsaboHavoc Originally posted by GrayGhost79
I think that would be contradictory... if I thought Guardians were so overpowered, then I wouldn't have offered to face you in PvP. Its no lie that Guardians are known for their survivability, especially in PvE -- and how is that an excuse for anything? If nothing else it would prove me wrong if you were able to get through a dungeon or a PvP match completely unscathed.
Me playing my mesmer, I have damn good survivability, I stay at range, and all my pets do the damage, I can go invisible, reflect ranged damage, and put out so much condition damage its staggering. It pairs well with a guardian, and guardians are some of the toughest to kill in PvP for a mesmer due to the high heal/defense ratio and the mesmers traditionally low DPS and even lower defensive ability. The only thing worse than running a mesmer would be if you wanted me to run an elementalist in PvP, it would be all DPS on defense.
Just for you this is what I did. I joined a pug and sat my daughter down who has never done a dungeon in GW2. I coached her while she did the run. The pug had zero deaths, and zero repair bills. Took all of 20 minutes. She did hit my fraps button a few times because shes not use to my setup so it did cut off here and there but not durring any of the fights I think. She's been playing MMO's for years so don't think she is a complete newb.
In any case, it's gonna take hours to finish uploading the videos but when they are ready I will post links here.
So, story mode is cake for me and apparently CM story mode is cake for my daughter who hasn't done a single dungeon. Videos to follow...
My 17 year old daughter doing CM story mode for the first time.
Not to nitpick on it, but you didn't show the first door pull after the robot boss who is extremely easy post patch, but that first door pull is usually the toughest pull in that dungeon, and its conspicuously missing from this video. Secondly, you had a team of 3 guardians and a warrior, its not unheard of to find a PUG like that, but not a single light armored character and 4 heavy armored characters 3 of which that can heal on a Dungeon that requires you to stand and fight then run (snipers deal substantially more damage on moving targets).
Regardless, no players went down in the parts of the video that you showed, and I honestly don't care that much to delve any deeper into it. I offered to see things first hand instead of a second hand video and you declined, and thats fine.
As I said shes not use to my setup so hit the fraps button here and there in the beginning. The rest goes on uninterupted after I showed her which button not to mess with. I've done this story mode with 2 mesmers, 2 elementalists and a rouge + me with the same results as well as several other profession combinations. Hell once I ran through with 4 engineers and myself.
Pre-patch and Post-patch CM story mode is cake. I simply provided proof of it. As I said, it's cake and I proved my point so... not really much else to say lol.
All I was saying is that if all the dungeons are so easy, you could have grouped with me just as easily, instead of showing a video of your "daughter" playing and cutting out the toughest pull in the dungeon.... but again, it really doesn't matter. Whether a dungeon is cake for you or not doesn't change the poor rewards you get, or the fact that you still declined my invitation to play with you in either PvE or PvP. I think thats the real tragedy.
Originally posted by maskedweasel Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Originally posted by maskedweasel Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Originally posted by maskedweasel Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Originally posted by TsaboHavoc Originally posted by GrayGhost79
But they changed the rewards drastically... I get 60 tokens for 1 run now a day. Thats rediculous compared to before...
I know... its going to be one excuse or another regardless of what I did or do lol. The rewards have been upped btw. And no, as I said before you have shown a unwillingness to learn and you find something my daughter did on the first try with ease to be difficult. Why in the world would I group with someone like that? lol ...
Originally posted by GrayGhost79 All I was saying is that if all the dungeons are so easy, you could have grouped with me just as easily, instead of showing a video of your "daughter" playing and cutting out the toughest pull in the dungeon.... but again, it really doesn't matter. Whether a dungeon is cake for you or not doesn't change the poor rewards you get, or the fact that you still declined my invitation to play with you in either PvE or PvP. I think thats the real tragedy.
Simply put, because you are either scared I'm actually a good player, or that you aren't as good as you think you are. That would be my guess on why you wouldn't group with someone "like me". This is the world of anonymity, you can say your daughter did this or that, and you can say it was a cakewalk when you cut out the toughest part of the dungeon from an otherwise mostly complete video and easily blame it on your daughter, or you could have just taken 30 minutes of your time to group with me, or fight against me in PvP.
I just brought a group of players.. all level 80 through AC Path3 - I was the only one who had done it before, on my level 40 elementalist. I don't need a selective group of 80% heavy armors to do it either... I ran with a thief, another elementalist, a mesmer, and 1 warrior.. all new to the dungeon, all failed it before at the graveling site. It took an hour and a half start to finish of going over and regoing over tactics, but they did it, and I didn't turn tail and run because they didn't know what they were doing. Theres the difference, you sit here telling me I have no willingness to learn... theres just nothing you can teach me, and you won't even group with me or have a PvP match with me because you think I might make you look bad.
We might as well just agree to disagree on this one, my offer stands, and it stands for everyone, not just you. Hell I'd like to find players that are better than me anyways, I'd rather play up, lose and learn something new then talk a big game and have nothing to show for it.
Originally posted by eggy08 All I was saying is that if all the dungeons are so easy, you could have grouped with me just as easily, instead of showing a video of your "daughter" playing and cutting out the toughest pull in the dungeon.... but again, it really doesn't matter. Whether a dungeon is cake for you or not doesn't change the poor rewards you get, or the fact that you still declined my invitation to play with you in either PvE or PvP. I think thats the real tragedy.
You are right, I actually got full rewards on the two runs I ran tonight. Full XP, Full Money, and 60 tokens on both runs I did (separate paths). I'll see what happens tomorrow when I run those same paths again, but I was really happy with the 60 tokens.. thats a hell of a lot better than before.
omg did you follow any strategy ???
i run eysterday the same dungeon yesterday for first time with my engi and i had too healing build (elixir gun and elixir healing, spammign aoe healing) but everywhere there you should follow a strategy, we died too a lot of times, but after we realised that if we had pulled the boss away from his snipers we, if we waited the boss or if we where focusing the same mob, etc the dungeon would be much easier ..!
the holy trinity is noob friendly, in GW2 the dungeons are hard cause you have to follow/create a plan and not run !
the basic different the GW2 system forces you to think
the holy trinity is just a "robotic" gameplay ...
personally i prefer to think, but i can accept that some people want to relax and sit deep in their sofas xD
lets look at other game with trinity
dungeons are boring tank just stand and rest is smashing thiers keys theres no moving and any 3y old kid could play it
and in the end the warrior tank done the most damage?
Originally posted by GrayGhost79 *snip*
Since you can do that dungeon with 4 more or less skilled players, your video only proves that's it's quite feasable, even with 4 players in case one of the original 5 drops out. So is there any problem here? It's story mode, it's supposed to be relatively easy.
Originally posted by Wendetta Originally posted by Omnifish
I do love how you and Korrigan seem to jump on that guy, over he's, '600 hour', statement, because really that's all the pair of you have to go on isn't?
And if he had said that he had got 600+ hours on his account, and the game is..."GREAT!!! Dying in dungeons means you are playing it wrong!!!! Its all working well, unless you are a WoW scrub so go back to WoW and dont call this game flawed in any way you hater", then those 2 posters would have readily quoted him as 'an experienced GW2 player' to further their points and used his posts as proof that the OP is wrong.
Double standards of the poorest kind. And ofcourse that other poster might come back with another condescendingly smug drivel about what he would have done, but thats just the nature of petty people to act ignorant when called out on their BS.
For as much as I like GW2, I feel the game fell short on having worthwhile dungeons by a long shot...Its "different" by ANet's point of view but IMHO its just a bad kind of unbalanced 'different'.
'if he had said' then I 'would have readily quoted him as....' would I?
You must think you know me better than I do!
Fabricating what Korrigan and I think or' would say' and then criticising THAT *as if it were gospel* makes you look far more bias that you would paint us.
Criticise what we have done or said, not your weak conclusions about what you need us to have sais to justify yourself.
Originally posted by Aerowyn gotta learn combo fields.. if you get a group together that knows how to utliize combo fields well dungeons can be a blast
combos CAN be a BLAST quite literally
too many trashmobs and no trinity, got bored and left the first dungeon after 10 minutes.felt like snoozefest .
Games:Currently playing:NothingWill play: Darkfall: Unholy WarsPast games:Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher DuminousXpiher's GW2GW 1 - Xpiher DuminousDarkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retiredAoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retiredWarhammer - Xpiher
I start to dislike the dungeons, because peole skip a lot of the content. The linear design is the main reason for that. I miss the "more open" design of the dungeons in GW1. Think they made bad choice in that direction
I only hope they see this and make future dungeons better.
I like the dungeons to some extent. Especially AC on explorable is so much fun and skill-based. Seeing literally 60 mobs running after you while you desperately try to keep them away from an NPC is just fun. They have some flaws though. Some fights are just boring because of insane health pools on the opponents.
The biggest problem that the removal of holy trinity brings is a skill difference. Because they're skill-based, you'll find that 5 people that know what they're doing can blast through every single one of them without much of a challenge once they learn it. 5 average players though, might be in for the greatest wipefest of their lives. Utility skills, combo fields, dodging and traits are insanely important, and a large portion of the MMO crowd will simply fail at dungeons and complain about their difficulty, where the remaining people will complain that it's too easy as they clear it in less than an hour.
Interesting to see what they'll do. Right now, I don't think the dungeons appeal to anyone. I run them for gear mainly. They pose no challenge, whereas to some groups they pose too much of a challenge, making nobody happy in the process.