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[Interview] Darkfall: Unholy Wars: Reshaping Darkfall's Sandbox

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  • MetsisMetsis TamperePosts: 66Member
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    I am confused, are they basically saying Darkfall was just one big beta test?

    As much as Warhammer Online was a beta test for SWTOR or Guild Wars 1 for Guild Wars 2... It was a game that has been online now for 3+ years... If you were totally ignorant you could claim EverQuest 1 was beta test for WoW.

    Online games come and go. If it was easier to create a new game than to mold the old one, then more power to them. We will get all sorts of new bells and whistles along with it. DF graphics were never that top notch, so an upgrade there is more than welcome etc.

  • egotripegotrip Banana rep.Posts: 875Member
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    I am confused, are they basically saying Darkfall was just one big beta test?

    Nope !

     

    What they basically are saying is that it was just a big PAID beta test.

     

    So long ,buy Darkfall 2.0 and thanks for all the fi$h

    Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*

  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member
    to be fair, Tasos himself has mentioned in an interview that DF1 was a "proof of concept", however one may interpret this...
  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member
    Originally posted by Metsis
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    I am confused, are they basically saying Darkfall was just one big beta test?

    As much as Warhammer Online was a beta test for SWTOR or Guild Wars 1 for Guild Wars 2... It was a game that has been online now for 3+ years... If you were totally ignorant you could claim EverQuest 1 was beta test for WoW.

    Online games come and go. If it was easier to create a new game than to mold the old one, then more power to them. We will get all sorts of new bells and whistles along with it. DF graphics were never that top notch, so an upgrade there is more than welcome etc.

    In the end this doesn't affect me. I wasn't paying 15 bucks a month to play Darkfall.

    I am just curious is all. When CCP was taking the money they were making from EVE subscriptions and using it to invest in two new games, Dust and World of Darkness. The EVE players got mad.

    They told the company they had to stop ignoring EVE and re-invest in the game.

    Now we have a company that was taking 15 bucks a month, knowing for a couple years, they weren't going to improve the game or give it any new updates. Instead they used the money they were making from the subsriptions to create a new game.

    I am surprised there isn't as big an uproar is all. 

     

  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by Metsis
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    I am confused, are they basically saying Darkfall was just one big beta test?

    As much as Warhammer Online was a beta test for SWTOR or Guild Wars 1 for Guild Wars 2... It was a game that has been online now for 3+ years... If you were totally ignorant you could claim EverQuest 1 was beta test for WoW.

    Online games come and go. If it was easier to create a new game than to mold the old one, then more power to them. We will get all sorts of new bells and whistles along with it. DF graphics were never that top notch, so an upgrade there is more than welcome etc.

    In the end this doesn't affect me. I wasn't paying 15 bucks a month to play Darkfall.

    I am just curious is all. When CCP was taking the money they were making from EVE subscriptions and using it to invest in two new games, Dust and World of Darkness. The EVE players got mad.

    They told the company they had to stop ignoring EVE and re-invest in the game.

    Now we have a company that was taking 15 bucks a month, knowing for a couple years, they weren't going to improve the game or give it any new updates. Instead they used the money they were making from the subsriptions to create a new game.

    I am surprised there isn't as big an uproar is all. 

     

    That "new game" you mention is an extreme remake of the original game, so moot point.

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member
    Originally posted by Galadourn
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by Metsis
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    I am confused, are they basically saying Darkfall was just one big beta test?

    As much as Warhammer Online was a beta test for SWTOR or Guild Wars 1 for Guild Wars 2... It was a game that has been online now for 3+ years... If you were totally ignorant you could claim EverQuest 1 was beta test for WoW.

    Online games come and go. If it was easier to create a new game than to mold the old one, then more power to them. We will get all sorts of new bells and whistles along with it. DF graphics were never that top notch, so an upgrade there is more than welcome etc.

    In the end this doesn't affect me. I wasn't paying 15 bucks a month to play Darkfall.

    I am just curious is all. When CCP was taking the money they were making from EVE subscriptions and using it to invest in two new games, Dust and World of Darkness. The EVE players got mad.

    They told the company they had to stop ignoring EVE and re-invest in the game.

    Now we have a company that was taking 15 bucks a month, knowing for a couple years, they weren't going to improve the game or give it any new updates. Instead they used the money they were making from the subsriptions to create a new game.

    I am surprised there isn't as big an uproar is all. 

     

    That "new game" you mention is an extreme remake of the original game, so moot point.

    So players will keep their old character and not have to pay a "New Game" price for Unholy Wars? (39$ is an expansion price; 59$ is a new game price)

     

    Or is it a new game: You will have to buy the new game and start a new character in the new game?

     

    When Sony created EQ2 they still continued to update and put out expansions for EQ1.  Are there still going to be expansions and updates for Darkfall: the original?

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by Metsis
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
     

    In the end this doesn't affect me. I wasn't paying 15 bucks a month to play Darkfall.

    I am just curious is all. When CCP was taking the money they were making from EVE subscriptions and using it to invest in two new games, Dust and World of Darkness. The EVE players got mad.

    They told the company they had to stop ignoring EVE and re-invest in the game.

    Now we have a company that was taking 15 bucks a month, knowing for a couple years, they weren't going to improve the game or give it any new updates. Instead they used the money they were making from the subsriptions to create a new game.

    I am surprised there isn't as big an uproar is all. 

     

    They did update the game quite extensively over the course of its life cycle. Those updates stopped when it had already become common knowledge that DF2010 was going to be a new game and not a patch. They also reduced the sub fees (now whilst people might say "they should have made it free", the fact of the matter is this is a small company trying to operate in, lets face it, not the best economic conditions).

     

    They originally (if you take them at their word) planned for the whole thing to be a patch and not a new game. The reasons people got pissed off was because this "patch" seemed to be taking forever.

     

    The fact of the matter is that it became clear that to present the game vision that the devs and the players wanted, it was simply more viable to create a new game as opposed to ram in so many new features and changes onto an existing amount of code. I recall all the legacy issues the change to NGE had for SWG as they piled code on top of code.

     

    Has it all been planned and executed as well as possible? Nope.

    Do I think it has been some kind of elaborate scam to con money out of players in order to fund a second game? Nope.

     

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • XAleX360XAleX360 PescaraPosts: 397Member
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by Galadourn
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by Metsis
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    I am confused, are they basically saying Darkfall was just one big beta test?

    As much as Warhammer Online was a beta test for SWTOR or Guild Wars 1 for Guild Wars 2... It was a game that has been online now for 3+ years... If you were totally ignorant you could claim EverQuest 1 was beta test for WoW.

    Online games come and go. If it was easier to create a new game than to mold the old one, then more power to them. We will get all sorts of new bells and whistles along with it. DF graphics were never that top notch, so an upgrade there is more than welcome etc.

    In the end this doesn't affect me. I wasn't paying 15 bucks a month to play Darkfall.

    I am just curious is all. When CCP was taking the money they were making from EVE subscriptions and using it to invest in two new games, Dust and World of Darkness. The EVE players got mad.

    They told the company they had to stop ignoring EVE and re-invest in the game.

    Now we have a company that was taking 15 bucks a month, knowing for a couple years, they weren't going to improve the game or give it any new updates. Instead they used the money they were making from the subsriptions to create a new game.

    I am surprised there isn't as big an uproar is all. 

     

    That "new game" you mention is an extreme remake of the original game, so moot point.

    So players will keep their old character and not have to pay a "New Game" price for Unholy Wars? (39$ is an expansion price; 59$ is a new game price)

     

    Or is it a new game: You will have to buy the new game and start a new character in the new game?

     

    When Sony created EQ2 they still continued to update and put out expansions for EQ1.  Are there still going to be expansions and updates for Darkfall: the original?

    Darkfall will cease to exist, and the characters likely will be wiped, but people won't have to buy the game again if they already bought Darkfall.

    Founder, CEO & Editor in Chief of Worlds Factory, a brand new videogame and entertainment online publication.

  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by Galadourn
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by Metsis
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    I am confused, are they basically saying Darkfall was just one big beta test?

    As much as Warhammer Online was a beta test for SWTOR or Guild Wars 1 for Guild Wars 2... It was a game that has been online now for 3+ years... If you were totally ignorant you could claim EverQuest 1 was beta test for WoW.

    Online games come and go. If it was easier to create a new game than to mold the old one, then more power to them. We will get all sorts of new bells and whistles along with it. DF graphics were never that top notch, so an upgrade there is more than welcome etc.

    In the end this doesn't affect me. I wasn't paying 15 bucks a month to play Darkfall.

    I am just curious is all. When CCP was taking the money they were making from EVE subscriptions and using it to invest in two new games, Dust and World of Darkness. The EVE players got mad.

    They told the company they had to stop ignoring EVE and re-invest in the game.

    Now we have a company that was taking 15 bucks a month, knowing for a couple years, they weren't going to improve the game or give it any new updates. Instead they used the money they were making from the subsriptions to create a new game.

    I am surprised there isn't as big an uproar is all. 

     

    That "new game" you mention is an extreme remake of the original game, so moot point.

    So players will keep their old character and not have to pay a "New Game" price for Unholy Wars? (39$ is an expansion price; 59$ is a new game price)

     

    Or is it a new game: You will have to buy the new game and start a new character in the new game?

     

    When Sony created EQ2 they still continued to update and put out expansions for EQ1.  Are there still going to be expansions and updates for Darkfall: the original?

    Last we heard from the devs they had said that existing DF players (that is, those that have already purchased the game) would not be required to pay for the new game.

    Migration of old characters is still unclear, with regards to what features you can keep. Probably the name of the character, but I would assume that'd be all.

    So it's a new game, coming either free or at a reduced price (29.99 EUR/USD if you read the press release), meant to replace the old game.

    You definitely can't say that AV used the subscription money for a different purpose other than improving the game...

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by Metsis
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
     

    In the end this doesn't affect me. I wasn't paying 15 bucks a month to play Darkfall.

    I am just curious is all. When CCP was taking the money they were making from EVE subscriptions and using it to invest in two new games, Dust and World of Darkness. The EVE players got mad.

    They told the company they had to stop ignoring EVE and re-invest in the game.

    Now we have a company that was taking 15 bucks a month, knowing for a couple years, they weren't going to improve the game or give it any new updates. Instead they used the money they were making from the subsriptions to create a new game.

    I am surprised there isn't as big an uproar is all. 

     

    They did update the game quite extensively over the course of its life cycle. Those updates stopped when it had already become common knowledge that DF2010 was going to be a new game and not a patch. They also reduced the sub fees (now whilst people might say "they should have made it free", the fact of the matter is this is a small company trying to operate in, lets face it, not the best economic conditions).

     

    They originally (if you take them at their word) planned for the whole thing to be a patch and not a new game. The reasons people got pissed off was because this "patch" seemed to be taking forever.

     

    The fact of the matter is that it became clear that to present the game vision that the devs and the players wanted, it was simply more viable to create a new game as opposed to ram in so many new features and changes onto an existing amount of code. I recall all the legacy issues the change to NGE had for SWG as they piled code on top of code.

     

    Has it all been planned and executed as well as possible? Nope.

    Do I think it has been some kind of elaborate scam to con money out of players in order to fund a second game? Nope.

     

    Well like I said, I'm not in any way mad about it since I tried the game but did not stick with it.

    I hope they let the players that were subscribers, at the time of the announcement, buy the game at a discount (39$) and make the rest up us pay for it like a new game. I think that would be a good reward for those who stuck with Darkfall through think and thin.

  • MetsisMetsis TamperePosts: 66Member
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

     

    Or is it a new game: You will have to buy the new game and start a new character in the new game?

     

    When Sony created EQ2 they still continued to update and put out expansions for EQ1.  Are there still going to be expansions and updates for Darkfall: the original?

    That is something that has not been mentioned anywhere... What exactly will happen with the original DF? I would expect to close it down since they are essentially making a sequel to the original. New and improved. And it is not like they have millions of subs active at the moment.

    Why would people be upset that their money is used to do something totally different. Once you give your cash to someone else, you no longer control what is done with it. I don't think the EULA etc. have anything about the cash being used only to fuel the game that earned it. Any sort of logic still states that some of the cash will be going to upkeeping the game and hopefully on patching the game in progress, which is most likely true in any case. I don't think CCP dropped the ball on EvE and left it to rot without any upkeep... Further development is a whole other matter. Sure online games need to evolve if they are to survive for extended periods of time, but when MMOs start to hit that 3-4 year mark, they are getting old. As is any old game. The graphics are no longer top notch, someone has come along and improved on what you've done already etc. So I hope the companies are not just pocketing the cash for one quick payday down the line and sticking it up to us players.

    And why DF2.0 isn't causing such an uproar is probably the fact that the players have known for a while that something "major" is in the works... Exactly what it was, was only revealed a few weeks ago.

  • MetsisMetsis TamperePosts: 66Member

    Still about the uproar about sub fees going to new games, I'd be more upset to realize who pays for the CEO 2 million dollar annual bonus :)

    Now that is something to be upset about!

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member
    Originally posted by Metsis
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

     

    Or is it a new game: You will have to buy the new game and start a new character in the new game?

     

    When Sony created EQ2 they still continued to update and put out expansions for EQ1.  Are there still going to be expansions and updates for Darkfall: the original?

    That is something that has not been mentioned anywhere... What exactly will happen with the original DF? I would expect to close it down since they are essentially making a sequel to the original. New and improved. And it is not like they have millions of subs active at the moment.

    Why would people be upset that their money is used to do something totally different. Once you give your cash to someone else, you no longer control what is done with it. I don't think the EULA etc. have anything about the cash being used only to fuel the game that earned it. Any sort of logic still states that some of the cash will be going to upkeeping the game and hopefully on patching the game in progress, which is most likely true in any case. I don't think CCP dropped the ball on EvE and left it to rot without any upkeep... Further development is a whole other matter. Sure online games need to evolve if they are to survive for extended periods of time, but when MMOs start to hit that 3-4 year mark, they are getting old. As is any old game. The graphics are no longer top notch, someone has come along and improved on what you've done already etc. So I hope the companies are not just pocketing the cash for one quick payday down the line and sticking it up to us players.

    And why DF2.0 isn't causing such an uproar is probably the fact that the players have known for a while that something "major" is in the works... Exactly what it was, was only revealed a few weeks ago.

    Tell that to the EVE players. They were not happy at all that their money was going to build new games, not re-invested in EVE.

  • ZheketriZheketri Edmonton, ABPosts: 22Member Uncommon
    Waiting patiently, name the day and I'll be there.
  • jakojakojakojako warrnville, ILPosts: 332Member

    "The User Interface was one of the more criticized features of Darkfall Online; we believe it will be one of the most preferred features of Unholy Wars."

     

    God i hope not

  • Belly1974Belly1974 RedcarPosts: 20Member
    I'd never heard of either of them until today... *hangs head in shame*
  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,189Member Uncommon

    Of all the comments this one really cracked me up:

    "no more Heavily armoured super archer melee crafter mages"

    And people question why they are making a new game?  The original game was very broken, they tried fixing it, but realized there was too much to fix, hence the new game.  I give them credit, they made a difficult decision, but it was the right one.

    I am looking forward to giving the new game a whirl.

  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member
    Originally posted by Karahandras
    Originally posted by raistlinm

    I think journalists need to really start to take a look at how to make their craft "pop" more, this article seemed to be a waste of space and words maybe it was my lack of immersion in the orignal Darkfall but nothing said in this article gave me a sense that I would want to play this game especially when considered against the information about the original DF.

    Is this new game supposed to recapture the feeling that this is a true sandbox and not just some FFA PVP?!?!

    What exactly is different in this game from the original DF?  Maybe it isn't the interviewers fault because Tasos seemed to dance around giving a clear answer that conveyed what this game is about.

    image

    Journalists? Where?!

    image
  • DeathageDeathage charlotte, NCPosts: 146Member
    Originally posted by Tamanous

    I still hope to hear word about mob AI and the pve element to the game. If that is fleshed out along side the pvp system the game will take off. If mobs are nothing more than a grind tool to level in order to do nothing else later but pvp the game will still be a barren wasteland and nothing more than a massive battleground disguised as an mmo.

     

    The pve element to an mmo is critical. It's creates a living world and creates cause for war. Mobs should be a resource worth fighting over just like land and harvesting points. It of course interests those who think an mmo is more than just ganking people 24/7. The first Darkfall was just slightly more exciting than pong when fighting npc's.

    Totally agreed. In the several months I played, I found that the biggest breaker of immersion and fun was the lack of what felt like a fleshed out, living world. Yes, the creatures had some interesting AI, but PVP can sustain the average player for only so long. You need open world zones with monsters and bosses that players want to kill for reasons other than the furthering of PVP. Maybe mob levels need to be maintained- for example, a newly established goblin village would, if unaddressed, grow in number until they start attacking neighboring npc-towns or utilizing resources that are valuable to players. Players would then need to trim their numbers in order to gain access to the towns or villages.

    Another great game that had good open world PVP was Vanguard:SOH. The impetus of most major pvp encounters was guilds fighting for open world spawns and dungeons.The same concept could be applied to a world such as DF's in which all items are craftable. Make certain zones/dungeons where a special reagent is dropped by specific mobs, or a rare mob boss that would spawn after the occupying guild/group could kill after farming so many mobs.

  • FluteFlute WellingtonPosts: 434Member

    Go on Garrett, get Tasos to give you a remote login to their closed beta.  We want screenshots and gameplay thoughts!  As far as first interviews go, this is pretty *meh*, however it's great to see you starting the ball rolling, and I look forward to a more in-depth report!

     

    Paragus should also be unleashed on Df:UW beta - at the end of the day, what everyone is fying to know is what is it really like?  People with such extensive knowledge of MMOS would be very well placed to let us have their thoughts!

  • FluteFlute WellingtonPosts: 434Member

    Oh it's on the Darkfall forum (or was that the Df:UW facebook page?)  - if you are a Darkfall 1.0 subscriber when Df:UW launches, then you do not need to buy the new game.  So my understanding is that subscription wise, if you are a paid subscriber of Darkfall 1.0 at launch you get Df:UW as if it was a free upgrade (you don't have to rebuy "the game"), if you are totally new then you would buy the game as you would for any other game.  Darkfall 1.0 has always used the old EVE Online billing model, you buy the game and game time, but never had to pay for updates or expansions (Darkfall 1.0 did have a couple expansions).

     

    "There were also questions about having to pay for the relaunch version, and the answer is no if you’ve already bought Darkfall." Tasos from http://www.darkfallonline.com/blog/?p=2102    That quote is from a little while ago, not sure if there is a more recent confirmation.

     

    So ... simple logic really for all players who had a DF 1.0 subscription before - October/early November is the time to go back to Agon, and get the new game as a free upgrade to your monthly subscription.  Besides, people are going to be fighting like there is no tomorrow ... knowing Darkfall players, they will want to close out DF1.0 with a festival of utter carnage!

     
     
  • FluteFlute WellingtonPosts: 434Member
    Originally posted by Stravas
    TBH DarkFall as it exists right now has the most interesting mob AI that I've seen . . . creatures actually flee from combat and then counterattack instead of mindlessly fighting to the death against even ridiculous odds as in 99.9% of MMOs.
     

    ^ that.  It felt like the AI got upgraded on a lot of mobs about a year and a half ago, right up to some of the caster mobs dynamically using crowd control on players.  You haven't really had a good pve experience until you have been sniping at an undead mage with a bow, only to have it unexpectedly use magic to pull you off the cliff you were on down into the waiting melee minions!   And it was always trouble when a wounded goblin would flee, hide behind a tree, then come back after you - with his buddies.  Seriously, Darkfall 1.0 was one of the few games I have ever encountered where the Mob AI worked off sound as well as visual line of sight.  You could sneak past a mob on the other side of a rock, but if you were not sneaking many mobs would hear you and go after you.  Of course the red dragons just skipped that sublety entirely, if you were in their domain they would cry, circle around, and nuke you.  Nothing quite like being roasted by a red dragon in Darkfall.... although Frosty (the ice dragon) had a whole new twist on munching down players and their ships!

     

    Anyone who says "Darkfall 1.0 had no pve content" is simply blind.  That many players enjoyed pvp so much that they never bothered with the pve content does not mean it was not there, only that Darkfall never forced people to do X, Y, Z, pve as a pre-requisite to pvp.

  • William12William12 Saint paul, MNPosts: 680Member
    Guess I will continue to wait for a sandbox PVE game with raids and dungeons.  I love PVP but i hate the forced aspect of it.  I pvp when I want to I dont wanna be forced into it.
  • gordiflugordiflu BarcelonaPosts: 757Member
    Originally posted by William12
    Guess I will continue to wait for a sandbox PVE game with raids and dungeons.  I love PVP but i hate the forced aspect of it.  I pvp when I want to I dont wanna be forced into it.

    +1

    The only thing that is making me hesitate about getting or not getting this game is beeing forced into pvp. I do plenty of pvp, but I want to choose when to do so.

     

  • happyfartshappyfarts bzPosts: 85Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mifun
    It's pretty strange that no one ask the most important question, are d0rfs still in game? Agon's dwarf community demands the pic!

    They're probably still designing the beards :P

    I've been disappointed by DF the first time I signed up. I'm really torn on whether to try UW or not. My main issue was that though they do give all the attention needed for PvP, other elements like the economy or other non-PvP activities were not getting enough limelight

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