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Is Blizzard just that damn good, or are the rest of the developers just that bad?

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  • CerebralMCerebralM Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 21Member

    Is this an Everquest 1 redux thread with Warcraft in the Title? 

     

    When WoW was first on the horizon... everrrybody at that time was saying the same crap about Immortal EQ Behemoth. 

  • MMORPDEATHMMORPDEATH College Park, MDPosts: 414Member
    WOW was an MMO by a MAJOR game designer. Everyone who loved Warcraft 1-3 wanted to play it even if they had never played MMO's before.

    Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice.

  • Lethargic_SynapseLethargic_Synapse Kissimmee, FLPosts: 67Member
    Originally posted by MMORPDEATH
    WOW was an MMO by a MAJOR game designer. Everyone who loved Warcraft 1-3 wanted to play it even if they had never played MMO's before.

    There's more involved than just that.  Replace WoW with SWTOR and Warcraft 1-3 with anyone who'd played a SW game or enjoyed the movies, and you can see what I mean.

  • NephaeriusNephaerius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,539Member Uncommon

    Blizzard can put it's name on an empty box and sell 5 million copies.  They're only going to get by on name recognition alone for so long though.  Just this year we have the D3 debacle and repeated attempts to sell the company. 

    The other factor is they have a large built in playerbase that has already invested hundreds and thousands of hours into the title.  Those folks will never jump ship due to the loss and will always pick up the latest X-Pac to stay up to date.  The other titles you mention are basically starting from scratch.  This makes the whole thing an inaccurate comparison.

    Steam: Neph

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,171Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    edit - and an "e" to the "on" in the pole....

     

    Blizzard is good in offering people stuff that makes them feel good for a little while, then they want more.....

    Often people that quit wow -or their parents forbid them playing it- experience side effects, like mood changes, shivering, sweating....it makes them feel real bad and sick untill they resub again for a bit and feel like they are in heaven again...it makes them feel good again.....for a little while.

     

    That...in a nutshell is the story behind a game called wow.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • HrimnirHrimnir Qeynos, COPosts: 1,597Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Let me start by sayin I played WoW for five years, with an embarrassing amout of time  /played on just my main not to mention my 8 alts. I stopped playing about a year and a half ago, and have no plans to go back. WoW is dated, and was taken in a direction that I could not agree with. Which brought a level of distrust for Blizzard that hasn't eased yet. 

     

    With that said, how is it possible that Blizzard can take this old game with an older engine and probably sell more copies of it's 4th expansion than GW2, SwTOR, TSW and RIFT combined?! What does this say about the rest of the developers out there? How is it that Blizzard can make a game where millions of people play for years and these other developers can't make a game where most people want to play 6 months?  To be far I did play RIFT for ten months. I tip my hat to the TRION team, but that's a far cry from years. 

     

    So which one is it? Blizzard is that good, or does the rest of the industry suck that bad? It's either more of one or the other.

     

    edit - and an "e" to the "on" in the pole....

    You know what cracks me up, the amount of players has very little to do with blizzard's continued machinations, and very much to do with human psychology.

    Humanity ALWAYS flocks to things that are popular, simply because they are popular.

    That is why you get stupid fads that 10 years later you look back and go "what the hell was everyone thinking?"

    Thats the problem, they werent thinking, they were acting on a flawed human emotion.

    Do you really think pet rocks were that cool or innovative.  Or shoulderpads in clothes?  Stonewashed jeans?  Using the word "TURBO" to describe anything good?

    No, its all stupid, ridiculous shit perpetuated because of humanities need for inclusion within a group.

    Did blizzard make a good product? Yes. But the sub numbers from now have little to do with anything blizzard has done as a company in the last 4-6 yrs

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hrimnir
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Let me start by sayin I played WoW for five years, with an embarrassing amout of time  /played on just my main not to mention my 8 alts. I stopped playing about a year and a half ago, and have no plans to go back. WoW is dated, and was taken in a direction that I could not agree with. Which brought a level of distrust for Blizzard that hasn't eased yet. 

     

    With that said, how is it possible that Blizzard can take this old game with an older engine and probably sell more copies of it's 4th expansion than GW2, SwTOR, TSW and RIFT combined?! What does this say about the rest of the developers out there? How is it that Blizzard can make a game where millions of people play for years and these other developers can't make a game where most people want to play 6 months?  To be far I did play RIFT for ten months. I tip my hat to the TRION team, but that's a far cry from years. 

     

    So which one is it? Blizzard is that good, or does the rest of the industry suck that bad? It's either more of one or the other.

     

    edit - and an "e" to the "on" in the pole....

    You know what cracks me up, the amount of players has very little to do with blizzard's continued machinations, and very much to do with human psychology.

    Humanity ALWAYS flocks to things that are popular, simply because they are popular.

    That is why you get stupid fads that 10 years later you look back and go "what the hell was everyone thinking?"

    Thats the problem, they werent thinking, they were acting on a flawed human emotion.

    Do you really think pet rocks were that cool or innovative.  Or shoulderpads in clothes?  Stonewashed jeans?  Using the word "TURBO" to describe anything good?

    No, its all stupid, ridiculous shit perpetuated because of humanities need for inclusion within a group.

    Did blizzard make a good product? Yes. But the sub numbers from now have little to do with anything blizzard has done as a company in the last 4-6 yrs

    The flaw in your reasoning is that it must become popular before the people will flock to it because it is popular.

    Generally things get popular because people like them, not always but usually.

    The sub numbers show that people like the game enough to continue with it.  Innovation has little to do with it.  People like them.  People liked the pet rocks, shoulderpads and stone washed jeans. 

    The company made a product people like, just like blizzard, thats how they became popular.  They stayed popular because the company continued to make a product people like. 

    Stone washed jeans left because people no longer liked them, however the companies making them supplied another product that again people like. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • HrimnirHrimnir Qeynos, COPosts: 1,597Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Hrimnir
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Let me start by sayin I played WoW for five years, with an embarrassing amout of time  /played on just my main not to mention my 8 alts. I stopped playing about a year and a half ago, and have no plans to go back. WoW is dated, and was taken in a direction that I could not agree with. Which brought a level of distrust for Blizzard that hasn't eased yet. 

     

    With that said, how is it possible that Blizzard can take this old game with an older engine and probably sell more copies of it's 4th expansion than GW2, SwTOR, TSW and RIFT combined?! What does this say about the rest of the developers out there? How is it that Blizzard can make a game where millions of people play for years and these other developers can't make a game where most people want to play 6 months?  To be far I did play RIFT for ten months. I tip my hat to the TRION team, but that's a far cry from years. 

     

    So which one is it? Blizzard is that good, or does the rest of the industry suck that bad? It's either more of one or the other.

     

    edit - and an "e" to the "on" in the pole....

    You know what cracks me up, the amount of players has very little to do with blizzard's continued machinations, and very much to do with human psychology.

    Humanity ALWAYS flocks to things that are popular, simply because they are popular.

    That is why you get stupid fads that 10 years later you look back and go "what the hell was everyone thinking?"

    Thats the problem, they werent thinking, they were acting on a flawed human emotion.

    Do you really think pet rocks were that cool or innovative.  Or shoulderpads in clothes?  Stonewashed jeans?  Using the word "TURBO" to describe anything good?

    No, its all stupid, ridiculous shit perpetuated because of humanities need for inclusion within a group.

    Did blizzard make a good product? Yes. But the sub numbers from now have little to do with anything blizzard has done as a company in the last 4-6 yrs

    The flaw in your reasoning is that it must become popular before the people will flock to it because it is popular.

    Generally things get popular because people like them, not always but usually.

    The sub numbers show that people like the game enough to continue with it.  Innovation has little to do with it.  People like them.  People liked the pet rocks, shoulderpads and stone washed jeans. 

    The company made a product people like, just like blizzard, thats how they became popular.  They stayed popular because the company continued to make a product people like. 

    Stone washed jeans left because people no longer liked them, however the companies making them supplied another product that again people like. 

    Its not a Flaw.  I never said blizzard didnt make a good product OR a popular product.  What i was saying is that the fact that it is so wildly popular has little to do with blizzard.  If you look at when it came out it took over a year for it to breach a couple of million subs.  So it was like it just came out and suddenly had 9 or 10 million subs right off the bat, it took several years for it to reach the state its been in.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Exactly. It took time to get the millions which means that people liked it fir a long period of time. It became popular because they liked and generated positive word of mouth.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Lethargic

    Simple - swtor is really really bad. Wow is slightly above average. You can hype the slightly above average, you can't polish a turd
  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    what I think is it is really hard for people to play the same game for a long period of time.

    Take diablo 3 for example.  I don't think it is the greatest of all game.  I dont' think it have longevity for most gamer.  But my guess is 5 years from now, there will be more diablo 3 player than say TL2, Grim Dawn, or whatever other arpg is on the market.

    One is simply brand loyalty.  I believe diablo franchise will last forever and will keep getting patched and I dont' have as much faith compare to other arpg.  The other is Blizzard know how to make their game last forever.  I won't say wow is the most fun mmorpg I ever played.  But it is one of the few mmorpg I say I can play it forever.  Blizzard's game may be grindy, but that is the only way to play a game forever, enjoy the grind.

  • MMORPDEATHMMORPDEATH College Park, MDPosts: 414Member
    Originally posted by Lethargic_Synapse
    Originally posted by MMORPDEATH
    WOW was an MMO by a MAJOR game designer. Everyone who loved Warcraft 1-3 wanted to play it even if they had never played MMO's before.

    There's more involved than just that.  Replace WoW with SWTOR and Warcraft 1-3 with anyone who'd played a SW game or enjoyed the movies, and you can see what I mean.

    Well, it was polished and ran on anything. The classic Blizzard traits. It also appealed to kids. I thought EQ2 was better at the time and still do, but it was not as marketable.  Too difficult and a hardware hog. A HUGE part of it is the loyal Blizzard following though. All the l00t grinders from Diablo 2 just transferred to WOW, hence the trashy community. Also hence the loyalty by the fanboys here.

    Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member

    WoW succeeds now simply because of momentum. Their game design is uninspired. It's a toddler version of EverQuest and it has never once contributed a unique idea to the MMO space.

    The reason WoW took off was because it was the first MMO to have a year long million dollar ad campaign behind it, with an established company and Ip aimed at casual gamers.

    That's about it.

     

    Blizzard has shown time and time again they have no idea how to design a good MMO. It's the name that carries them through. This is why games that are total clones of WoW don't do well, because they don't have the momentum.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,942Member Uncommon
    If that was true everyone would have stopped playing wow a month into it. The problem with wow is the lack of investment and their practice of simplifying the game instead of expanding it.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    If that was true everyone would have stopped playing wow a month into it.

    The vast majority of core MMORPG gamers did stop playing a month into it. WoW found its audience with casual non MMO gamers from Starcraft and beyond, with their huge ad campaign. Even non gamers were aware of it.

    There's really almost no other MMOs to play though due to the huge imposion of the genre following WoW's success.

  • ruonimruonim DGPosts: 251Member
    You didnt add option : blizzard was good. After activision take over it become another ea like studio.
  • VolenibbletsVolenibblets London, LAPosts: 212Member Uncommon

    The reason for their success is simple, market research. They cleverly managed to blend a serious of features of previously established hardcore games that had turned a lot of people off because of the time invenstment required to get anywhere, the fact that they took themselves too seriously and consequently that they were stigmatized as 'nerdy'. Wow was a diluted version of these games that didn't take itself too seriously, had cross-generational appeal, was ingeniously cartoonish (therefore able to work on crap machines at low settings and still look relatively good/stylish) and had an acheiveable sense of progression that gave people that warm fuzzy dopamine fix as they levelled. 

    The only problem is that, since it was so successful at blending all these features its become difficult to make any future 3rd person RPG game without them drawing obvious comparisons...or risking not attracting players who played that format to death and back.

     

  • atuerstaratuerstar melbournePosts: 234Member

    Tamagotchi

    Pokemon

    Swatch

    Levi

    Yo-yo's

     

    People are stupid and they jump on fads faster than lemmings jumping off cliffs. It really is that painfully simple.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by bcbully

    How is it that Blizzard can make a game where millions of people play for years and these other developers can't make a game where most people want to play 6 months?  

    The same way that McDonalds can sell the most food, when my local pizza store won a prize for making the best pizza in the world but still has only has one outlet. Selling more does not equal higher quality.

    People stick together like a flock of sheep. Most people in the world are not gamers, they just dabble with them casually, and that is what WoW latched onto. Casual gaming. There isnt going to be another WoW because the casual gamers and the sheep already have a home in WoW with established social groups.

    Also your poll is lacking a 'Neither, Blizzard got lucky by being first to target the lowest common denominator in gaming'

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