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Originally posted by Sylvarii
This and EQ was even more extreame,If you wanted to get to a certain destination then you paid a player who played one of the porting classes to take you...ie wizard or druid.That still happens in lotro,sometimes it was quicker to ask a hunter to port you instead of a horse ride.
...and the next non-kin player to ask for a ride to Rivendell without AT LEAST covering the cost of my travel rations is gonna be the last one I help.
But on topic... in the case of a game like DCUO which is pathetically content lite, yes, it would bother me.
But if there's at least 80 hours of "main playthrough" in a game with a number of other things to do as well, including a solid crafting system, then no. That doesn't bother me.
Aside from DCUO, I've yet to see an MMO where you can come close to completing the content in a couple days.
Now, should I choose to scrape away the coyness surrounding the question and understand it's a thinly veiled criticism of GW2 and the fact that some folks manage to craft much of their way to 80, I say, I absolutely do not give a crap due to the way the game is designed.
Originally posted by CalmOceansHey,Does it bother anyone that people reach "endgame" so fast in MMO nowadays.
It bothers me when they then take to the message boards and complain about being bored. Well... DUH! You blew through the game! What do you expect? I really do question some people's intelligence at times like those. Especially when they skip over half of the content offered by the game.
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I don't care if they get there within the first hour. My problem is with them and the developers who think that those players must be catered to. They got there first not because they played the game but because they wanted to beat the game and other players to the end.
They didn't care about the content in the game. Only in finishing the game. These people are not game players. They are game beaters.
I don't care what these game beaters do. I care about what the developers do in response.
Maybe some people enjoy endgame. Endgame is where the game start for me.
I have a few thousands playing hours in wow, atlantica online, diablo 3. And the only way I have that many playing hours is because of the endgame. Not because of the pre endgame.
It doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as the min/max metagame exploit game mechanics overly competitive PvP crowd acts once they reach "PvP endgame" (finding and abusing the most overpowered builds, winning gold in tournaments due to the fact their opponents don't take it as seriously, etc.).
I love competition. I love PvP. I am great at PvP and rarely find someone better than me, and it's very uncommon to find someone even equal in any game I play due to my experience in competitive gaming (any genre). I am not whining or complaining...it's something else that bothers me, but I don't know what exactly. Maybe it's the fact I am usually "the best" alone, so I cannot compete no matter how good I am because I don't have a guild? Perhaps I just can't play as much even when I have endless free time because I want to do other things besides compete in PvP? Idk.
End game PvE players who act like reaching it ASAP is a competition does bother me.
"Pro" PvP players who spend all their time scoring thousands of hours of time in the game within a week for the sole reason of getting a better advantage and more experience than others and claiming their "player skill" (not time learning the game mechanics) makes them the best...or the arrogance of higher tier competitive players vs. newbies, er whatever...the PvP version of the PvE end-gamer rushers...those bother me far, far more.
Of course, that makes sense doesn't it? They actually ruin my game by zerging me with their guild in what is inevitably a 1 vs X (1 being me, usually the only good player on my team, and X being the entire guild on the enemy team). Although having that guild on MY team makes it so boring I literally log off out of boredom. I play games to compete...not to get facerolled by a zerg in a one-sided game, and most certainly NOT to faceroll other players without any sort of challenge.
Perhaps that is why I never play competitively in arena tournaments in MMORPG's. When you're facerolling the enemy (excluding those few matches where you actually get a challenge because it's a serious tournament which happens on a single weekend for a few matches the entire month) it just isn't fun. I don't play competitively to win, I play competitively for fun.
Props to the RTS genre for always having spectacular 1v1 - 5v5 matches of *sometimes* (but far more often than MMORPG'S) equally skilled opponents vying in an extremely challenging (and thus ridiculously fun) match.
Sometimes I wonder if I don't enjoy competitive play in most video games (FPS and MMO mostly) because I am so good I rarely find a challenge, and when I do it's typically a faceroll challenge (by an aimbotter or unbalanced, broken game mechanics). Like in Champions Online shortly after release, anyone with Ego Blades would faceroll you due to how broken the OPness of it was. I quit because of that. Or in FPS games when I get bored because no matter how spectacular my score is- my team is so bad it makes me frustrated. (I'm talking matches where I'm 10:1 and everyone else on my team is 1:3 or worse, and we lose bc of that. Or the GW2 matches which end in 100:500 and I'm the only one with points).
I dont have these frustrations or annoyance in RTS genre because I'm always 1v1, making the fights fair for me and thus happy. 2v2, or 3v3 with family/friends and thus I'm okay with losing because I know the player doesn't have as much experience with the game as me and we tried our best, or 5v5 with strangers but it's extremely fun to do awesome tactics like paradrop troops in their base and omgwtbbq their resources and do great things for the team in what would be an impossible tactic in a smaller game.
~The only opinion that matters is your own.Everything else is just advice,~
Originally posted by GetzMango Make leveling too slow people call it a grind, make it too quick and people are bored. There is no way to satisfy the content locusts. For them "winning" is reaching max level at all costs. That's how everyone knows you're PRO.
Agree I do not want a game that is a grind. Agree I do not want to get to top level and find nothing to do.
I used to hate the speeders because I thought they were all buying gold or using a bot. My cousin leveled fast by making guild buddies who were powerful and just because that was his playing style. He said he did not mean to. Then much later someone accuses me of leveling to fast and I thought I was slow. I realize games just got so predictable that I know what to do without barely looking at the screen. I'm not using gold or botting. I'm not a great player. I don't like to speed. I've just been there, done that, seen it all and it's predictable so I seem faster than those who just signed on to the mmo world.
It doesn't bother me that *they* do it in a couple of days but generally it means the game will be too fast for *me*. Who knows what the general rule of thumb is for this but if the average player levels say 30 times slower than the fastest then if the fastest take 1-2 days then for the average player the levelling game will only last 1-2 months. In that case the game either has to have a lot of endgame content or a lot of replayability or it will bleed players very rapidly. As it's almost impossible to add endgame content fast enough that really means a long-running game has to have a lot of replayability.
Originally posted by CalmOceans Hey, Does it bother anyone that people reach "endgame" so fast in MMO nowadays. Endgame was never what I enjoyed most about games, the journey is the most fun part for me. But nowadays many games allow you to reach endgame in a matter of days. Someone would say "why do you care, play your own game", I guess they have a point. But it's often akin to someone who already saw the movie and is telling you everything about it before it even starts. Zoning into a zone where there are already 200 players when you enter the first time is no fun either, people talking on the forum about endgame after a couple of days, opening youtube and seeing videos about zones you still need to explore takes away some of the mystery. In groups those people are often also on edge, quick to drop your group when the slightest thing goes wrong, they are just there to level as fast as humanly possible, no time for socialising, no time for fun. You can just put your fingers in your ears and pretend you don't see or hear anything, but it really bothers me that games let players reach endgame so fast. "there will always be players reaching endgame faster than you" you could argue. Well, yes and no, it kind of depends if the game lets them or not also, some games do not let you powerlevel through the content without breaks. Does it bother you at all?
If the journey is what you are so interested in why does it bother you that someone else enjoys the endgame more? I enjoy the Journey as well, but only ONCE, I think rerolling alts is sort of silly considering the idea of an MMO world is supposed to be a world to live in and not a game to play and I consider the journey more akin to the single player RPG experience.
To answer the question, no it doesnt bother me, although personally I would like to see a game made that takes months if not years to progress to the final level (such as Asherons Call) but the endgame starts at level 1. Hence my love of GW2.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2Waiting on: TESONext Flop: Planetside 2Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Originally posted by CalmOceans Hey, Does it bother anyone that people reach "endgame" so fast in MMO nowadays. Endgame was never what I enjoyed most about games, the journey is the most fun part for me. But nowadays many games allow you to reach endgame in a matter of days. .....
Agree completely with you. I have barely left i.e. starting areas in MOP (85 content) ... yet I'm already close to half level.
Part of problem is bonus XP 200%. As altholic I'm nearly constantly under this bonus, but even without leveling is to fast. With my new alt monk I'm already lv. 23 and have skipped many quests in Westfall, I'm already overpovered for areas yet have to start and have not yet left Redridge Mountains.
Partially I think this is purposely done so players that are only starting in wow could buy asap all expansions, but in meantime will be subscribed less time. Not sure what to say or think, but i personaly do not like it. I also never liked grind to next level as all quests were finished, but neither is good have left behind half quests untouched.
Yes, even though I think it takes 2 weeks for a normal person to reach endgame even with a lot of playtime.
Still, 90% of the games content is the rest of the world so you spend almost allyour time gaming in 10% of the game and that is indeed a problem.
It it time to get rid of levels and everything that isnt endgame, and to severly lessen the gap between new players and vets. Making leveling longer again is really a waste of time, leveling is more and more a thing of the past and I think it is smarter to invent something newer instead.
Instead of levels I rather have players getting new specc options, skills and small stat increases as they play, with no cap and no HP increase.
I think its the gaming mechanic that is wrong.
I have always enjoyed the journey in "skill progression" games. But levels create that journey for people to hit end game.
Its "catch up" or "wait" like gaming. You cant play with your peers if you dont keep up and you are bored if you surpass them. it's a shitty way to play a game. I refuse to play games that have levels anymore because of it. But..... so many people love the leveling system that they will always create games with this leveling system that has end game for those wanting to place roots in the game.
I personally want to play games like:
Old Star Wars Galaxies
Vanguard (because of the botherhood system)
Those games will or were be about the journey and experience rather than the levels. I have bought in to games that have levels for years, but I refuse to play them now. I find them lack luster and boring. "Rush to end game to claim a first!" Who cares?
I will be content playing FPS games until a real MMO is released that I will enjoy. Im not giving my money away anymore. No more rotten fruit for this guy.
Originally posted by Loke666 Originally posted by CalmOceans Hey, Does it bother anyone that people reach "endgame" so fast in MMO nowadays. Endgame was never what I enjoyed most about games, the journey is the most fun part for me. But nowadays many games allow you to reach endgame in a matter of days. Someone would say "why do you care, play your own game", I guess they have a point. But it's often akin to someone who already saw the movie and is telling you everything about it before it even starts. Zoning into a zone where there are already 200 players when you enter the first time is no fun either, people talking on the forum about endgame after a couple of days, opening youtube and seeing videos about zones you still need to explore takes away some of the mystery. In groups those people are often also on edge, quick to drop your group when the slightest thing goes wrong, they are just there to level as fast as humanly possible, no time for socialising, no time for fun. You can just put your fingers in your ears and pretend you don't see or hear anything, but it really bothers me that games let players reach endgame so fast. "there will always be players reaching endgame faster than you" you could argue. Well, yes and no, it kind of depends if the game lets them or not also, some games do not let you powerlevel through the content without breaks. Does it bother you at all?
Exactly as I said before. Get rid of the leveling alltogether and let's have a system like old pen and paper Shadowrun RPG where you create a character, choose your skills and stats and simply start playing without ever increasing your stats and skills afterwards.
The endgame itself bothers me,take it 1 week or 1 year
Thats why i play sandbox,waiting for archeage now
WoW 4ys,EVE 4ys,EU 4ysFH1942 best tanker for 4yearsPlaying WWII OL for some years untill nowmany other for some months
Originally posted by sirphobos I do miss when reaching max level in an MMO took time and having a max level character was rare.
Yeah me too....WUick leveling does nothing for me....IT meant alot more when there were very few high level players and each level was like an achievement.....Now it almost seems like these MMOs are just a race to hit end game on opening weekend and I just dont see how that is fun.
No as it is a clear indication of how unsustainable the Themepark model has been for the past 8years.
Gnome Wankers two.After the events of 18/07/2015 i fucking hate anyone that has anything to do with skyforge
It completely depends on the game. Raiding games typically its fine for me if they do let you get to the end relatively quick, the biggest thing I see with it would be making sure you have stuff to do. One way I do really like in some games like EQ2 and Rift is alternate leveling (Planar attunement in rift) which provides extra leveling. It adds into the game and lets you feel like your achieving something while you can be casually playing the game. Its a good alternative and it gives something else to work for while playing.
Still, I do miss it being around at all. One of my favorite MMos was Ragnarok Online and it was practically all just 'farm one zone for a long time" type deal but I still had such a blast with it. Each time you leveled it felt like an accomplishment and it would just build up more and more as you not only gained levels but your character actually felt stronger as you did it. Transing in that game is such a rewarding feeling and hitting cap is just such an awesome feeling (low rate of course, not any high rate stuff). I really wish more games were able to give such a feeling of advancement. The closest thing we have to this is dungeon crawlers and fortunately games like Torchlight 2 or Path of Exile exist to continue this to a certain degree (D3 unfortunately taking a steep nosedive off a bridge on this )
Thanks,MikeWorking on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com
Originally posted by worldalpha It amazes me that gamers can dedicate such huge amounts of time in a short time to get to the endgame so quickly.
Dude, that's when you get really powerful! Having hundreds of thousands of HP and glowing pauldrons means you're having more fun, that's just science.
Originally posted by Eir_S Originally posted by worldalpha It amazes me that gamers can dedicate such huge amounts of time in a short time to get to the endgame so quickly.
Am I wrong in thinking that people who do this are internet bullies because the main reason is to beat up less stat padded players?