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See-ya trinity....see-ya grouping...

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  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
     

     You expected anything less?

    obviously not.. although was hoping on the eve of MoP some of them would of moved on to those forums.. although looking at the overall numbers for the unique post count for today doesn't seem to be the case at all

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member
    Originally posted by Lathial
    If 99.999% of the content can be zerged or kited I feel comfortable clasifying it as such.  But just to be clear and so you dont get all bunched up down there- I will change my coment to: 99.9999% of the content can be zerged or kited.

    Lath

     

    Well, it can't be.   There are tons of DEs that can't be soloed.   And we all know it.   There are lots of mission where people cry and cry and cry because they're too hard to solo.   Well, duh, you're supposed to GROUP.

     

    You do that by saying "HEY, can I get some help with XYZ?"  in map chat.  Or hang out at the entrance and when someone comes PM them!  Or use 'Say!"

     

    And people, surprisingly, will help you!    Seriously, people need to stop being wall-flowers and wailing that they have to be social in a social game!!!    Really, it is YOUR OWN FAULT if you can't/don't group.   ASK.   MAKE FRIENDS.   JOIN  A GUILD.   

  • GamerUntouchGamerUntouch smithville ON, ONPosts: 488Member
    Originally posted by GamerUntouch

    You know if you zerg, boss events take like twice as long.

     

    It's really unreliable.

    Actually, most events that aren't time limit based.

     

    It just so happens to be that 90% of Orr are those events.

  • TerrorizorTerrorizor Red Beer, ABPosts: 326Member
    Originally posted by Lathial

     

    GW2 tried to get rid of the trinity...unfortunately what they got rid of was grouping. My first character I tried to make a support role and none of them are set up to be support.  Just plain DPS and your own heal works better in world and dungeons.

    This is a solo game with a-sorta-blitz-kiteing-group content.  And, the 'Events' get old just like rifts did.  World events get old really fast- how could we have fallen for this again?  I mean there is no different between rifts in Rift and events in GW2.

    It’s really a bummer cause I like the game and the pace of combat.  However, I have 8 toons, one of each class and, most of them post 40, and I have never talked to anyone in the game.  I don’t even really remember any person’s name that I have seen or grouped with for dungeons. Its interesting cause this is the first game that I have not joined a guild / group of people and had tons of fun.  Its like im playing a single player game with some goofy AI named "deesnutz" and "drizzt" who will occasionally join me for a veteran or champion kill.  

    I like playing the game and I like the world its unfortunate that the PvE game is just a single player game.

    Honestly, everyday I think about going back to TSW, EQ2, WoW, Rift, or something where you play with other people- I may not make it a month.  It’s too bad.  I have a feeling - and from reading all the new comments from these and other boards- the complaints are starting to roll in and the "fan-boys" are starting to feel it too- that after a month or two this game will end up in the same boat as The Secret World: After a month everyone will be done with the game- and move to something else.

    Lath

     

    So you choose to blame the environment for your actions (or lack of action).

    Time to move on, watch the door on the way out.

     

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by MosesZD
    Originally posted by Lathial
    If 99.999% of the content can be zerged or kited I feel comfortable clasifying it as such.  But just to be clear and so you dont get all bunched up down there- I will change my coment to: 99.9999% of the content can be zerged or kited.

    Lath

     

    Well, it can't be.   There are tons of DEs that can't be soloed.   And we all know it.   There are lots of mission where people cry and cry and cry because they're too hard to solo.   Well, duh, you're supposed to GROUP.

     

    You do that by saying "HEY, can I get some help with XYZ?"  in map chat.  Or hang out at the entrance and when someone comes PM them!  Or use 'Say!"

     

    And people, surprisingly, will help you!    Seriously, people need to stop being wall-flowers and wailing that they have to be social in a social game!!!    Really, it is YOUR OWN FAULT if you can't/don't group.   ASK.   MAKE FRIENDS.   JOIN  A GUILD.   

    he did say zerged or kited not soloed.. but there are plenty of bosses in dungeons and story quests that will heal to full on death so rez  zerging just does not work. In this aspect it's pretty much on par with every other themepark MMO out there

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • Neo_LibertyNeo_Liberty Lufkin, TXPosts: 429Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JimmyYO
    [mod edit]

    It is nothing like a single player game. and there is a point to this game just like every other game... its to play and have fun.. if your not having fun, its not the game for you.... so move on... why rant and complain and cry. play another game.

    image
  • scotty899scotty899 townsvillePosts: 166Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    I think the DEs in GW2 are in ways worse than the rifts in Rift.


    In Rift everyone was placed in a group, no one talks and everyone just drops group immediately after the rift is down but you were part of a group.

    In GW2 you are doing a DE with 20 other people but you are by yourself the entire time. You're not part of a group, no one talks and people walk away after the DE even though there are more parts to it.

    In GW2 you might as well be doing DEs with a bunch of NPCs because thats what this system has turned other people into.

    The one shining example of people supporting each other: reviving others that are Downed, happens less and less the higher level you are. People begin to realize that participation credit for all DEs is based on damage done only so taking a couple seconds to revive someone that couldnt be bothered to dodge out of the AoE could mean a drop a Bronze. Or worse yet, to no credit at all. This can happen when you have 40 people zerging their way to victory in the Orr DEs.

    as necro i throw down an aoe heal, and rez ppl during DE's whilst dealing damage. i joined a guild from my country and its mature and plenty social. if you want to be more part of a group then help out instead of sitting back and spamming skills. dungeons are different to the old trinity but it works (my opinion). 

     

    what else do you expect besides a thanks and see ya later? their phone number? lol

     

  • KalmarthKalmarth Lake Havasu City, AZPosts: 443Member

    Lose a Star for Talking bad against the game that is the new god! shhhh you will anger it and its minions will come to take you way!  They mostly come at night....mostly!

     

  • cybersurfrcybersurfr ParadisePosts: 168Member Uncommon

    Although I agree that the dungeons are lackluster and somewhat chaotic, I have the exact opposite experience regarding grouping. The world events are free for all and easy enough that you do not need much communication to accomplish any thing. For the solo player, this is a good thing at the beginning which slowly turns to a negative - at least for DEs. Why would people communicate for something easy and mundane?

    For everything else, I disagree. In reality, you would want to be in a guild to enjoy every thing the game has to offer. That will be your foundation. You will be free to offer help to any one outside. This is apparent in the more difficult parts of the game.

    As an example In WvWvW - you can join in a zerg or the militia and have fun, but it will get old to have no general direction. If you were playing with a guild/group of friends, you can move away from the zerg and form a roaming group to capture key points. You can disrupt their supplies and their stragglers/reinforcements. While doing so, you'd also be laughing it off in vent/TS/mumble/etc.

    Against competitive servers, you would need to cooperate with your server to accomplish any thing. It's a good thing people actually communicate in WvWvW giving off commands and notifying of enemy positions/numbers.

    In the end, I wouldn't enjoy this game at all if I played "alone" like you do. You don't stare at your monitor playing an MMO like a single player game and complain about the lack of community. You are part of that community and if you wish to enjoy it, you'd have to act like you are part of it. Unfortunately for you (you don't sound like you enjoy PVP) you'd find it in WvWvW, not in PVE.

     

     

     

     

  • Ubel12Ubel12 Clarksville, TNPosts: 153Member
    You got it right there =) I think the game is excellent, and the way they handel group content is most excellent as well. But like always, it's in the Eye of the Beholder.
  • Size-TwelveSize-Twelve Lansing, MIPosts: 494Member


    Originally posted by Clocksimus
    Originally posted by Aerowyn Originally posted by Thorbrand You can enjoy the game solo but your topic is off. I think GW2 proved that there needs to be a trinity and there needs to be grouping. There is no socialization to the game outside Hi Thank you and have a good day. I hate playing solo even if I can play solo and given this game is all about soloing most people don't want to group and a lot of players are not doing dungeons becuase they find it to hard without roles in the party.
    that's WAY more than I get in most themeparks these days.. at least GW2 has a system to bring people together and actually want to fight along side eachother in every quest. Lack of communication is soley on the person behind the keyboard.. sure you could make a game with tons of group only content but as long as there's a route you can take without much interaction a good number of people will go that route.. just how these games are these days
    The social in older MMO's  were often bad.

    The social in GW2 is a different kind of bad.

    Bad is still bad. GW2 community  imo is actually worse than any MMO out currently but the difference is, no one talks in GW2 so it defaults to the illusion of a nice community. In reality it should default to it has none. Lack of social doesn't make social better or good.



    This is just wrong. People /map chat in Lion's Arch all freakin day. My guild talks in /guild all the time. Have you ever been to WvW? The /team and /map chats are always active. I feel like there's too much chatter sometimes.

    What exactly are you looking for? You don't "need" to group DE's since everyone is already on your team. You can though, if you want to go off and tackle higher level stuff. Nothing is forced on you; make of it what you will.

  • khamul787khamul787 Garland, TXPosts: 193Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    I think the DEs in GW2 are in ways worse than the rifts in Rift.


    In Rift everyone was placed in a group, no one talks and everyone just drops group immediately after the rift is down but you were part of a group.

    In GW2 you are doing a DE with 20 other people but you are by yourself the entire time. You're not part of a group, no one talks and people walk away after the DE even though there are more parts to it.

    In GW2 you might as well be doing DEs with a bunch of NPCs because thats what this system has turned other people into.

    The one shining example of people supporting each other: reviving others that are Downed, happens less and less the higher level you are. People begin to realize that participation credit for all DEs is based on damage done only so taking a couple seconds to revive someone that couldnt be bothered to dodge out of the AoE could mean a drop a Bronze. Or worse yet, to no credit at all. This can happen when you have 40 people zerging their way to victory in the Orr DEs.

    Interesting, considering you are blatantly wrong. DE participation includes everything from DPS to rezzing, to healing of your allies, and the application of boons and conditions. I constantly see people rezzing in events, people thanking each other and grouping up to go do something else. The game is what you make of it, but just because you want to play alone does not mean that you can come in here and pretend that everyone else in the game is.

    image

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    The comments in red demonstrates an anti social behaviour that is elf defeating ultimately. Ofc people are not going to be social if they have the attitude that I'm not helping someone if they died by their own mistake or because you only get a bronze lol. That is a very tellng self centred approach to gaming that has been cultivated elsewhere.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,041Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Thorbrand
    You can enjoy the game solo but your topic is off. I think GW2 proved that there needs to be a trinity and there needs to be grouping. There is no socialization to the game outside Hi Thank you and have a good day. I hate playing solo even if I can play solo and given this game is all about soloing most people don't want to group and a lot of players are not doing dungeons becuase they find it to hard without roles in the party.

    I usually chat a lot when Im not in combat, so I cant really agree with that.

    I think it more proved that trinity thinking is hard to get out of once you got used to them.

    As for dungeons hard without a party I think it is more that people havnt learned how to play them and it seems many are afraid to mess up. Join up with a few other new people and learn together, or join a nice guild that will teach you the basics.

    Maybe it is also that people are used to that all dungeons under levelcap shouldnt be challenging at all, just a walk in the park as in most modern MMOs. Here you actually need the right specc, good gear and have to work together to beat it, unless you plan to walk out of the dungeon naked or play extremely well. We older MMO players are rather used to this from pre Wow MMOs where actually having updated good gear before levelcap more or less made all the difference.

    Relearning how to play combat might be hard, but the trinity needs to go. And GW2s mechanics are not perfect there, but it is the best improvement to MMO combat I seen since I first saw the trinity combat in Meridian 59, that was a huge step back in 1996.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,041Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by khamul787
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    I think the DEs in GW2 are in ways worse than the rifts in Rift.


    In Rift everyone was placed in a group, no one talks and everyone just drops group immediately after the rift is down but you were part of a group.

    In GW2 you are doing a DE with 20 other people but you are by yourself the entire time. You're not part of a group, no one talks and people walk away after the DE even though there are more parts to it.

    In GW2 you might as well be doing DEs with a bunch of NPCs because thats what this system has turned other people into.

    The one shining example of people supporting each other: reviving others that are Downed, happens less and less the higher level you are. People begin to realize that participation credit for all DEs is based on damage done only so taking a couple seconds to revive someone that couldnt be bothered to dodge out of the AoE could mean a drop a Bronze. Or worse yet, to no credit at all. This can happen when you have 40 people zerging their way to victory in the Orr DEs.

    Interesting, considering you are blatantly wrong. DE participation includes everything from DPS to rezzing, to healing of your allies, and the application of boons and conditions. I constantly see people rezzing in events, people thanking each other and grouping up to go do something else. The game is what you make of it, but just because you want to play alone does not mean that you can come in here and pretend that everyone else in the game is.

    Dont forget kiteing. But I agree, as a thief I often use my AoE stealth in combat so I can rezz a downed or dead player while someone else get the point and kite away the boss for the few seconds I need.

  • PilnkplonkPilnkplonk zagrebPosts: 1,532Member

    [mod edit]

    i totally welcome gw2's take on social aspects of mmos. it frees me to join guilds according to how much i like their members and the vibe of the guild rather than forcing me to hang out with people i'd never have any contact with just because i want to see the full content. it broke my heart when i had to leave a friendly guild full of people i knew in WoW to join a revolting raiding behemoth just so i could play some crummy endgame raids. balls to you, sir and thank you anet for finally giving the players a choice on how much to socialize and with whom.

  • HadentHadent TrnavaPosts: 2Member

    Well this topic finally made me to register.

    First, english is not my native language so sorry fo typos, etc.

    Second, i do not play GW2, althrough i must admit im planing to play it in future eventually (following it to see how it will do in long term).

    Now on topic, i really dont understand people saying game is antisocial, or how grouping is great for socialization.

    Im playing LOTRO curently and i must say that like 90% of talking in global chat are either spam or looking for fellowship messages and i know people who are not using that chanel because of that. As for socialization in groups, well most of the talking/typing is done while we are desperatly trying to find tank or healer and everyone is bored, so with lack of trinity this should be no more in GW2 i guess and i must say i can live with that. Really what socialization are you expecting when you are fighting? "Oh you are swinging really nice with that sword, upss i just died cos i was typing?".

    Also most ppl playing todays mmos are not so social persons, heck why most games are so solo-friendly these days, i must admit im also not that type, who just send message to every stranger i met in game.

    So really i dont know what do you people expect how should game FORCE players to socialize? Its not possible to send message/group with others in GW2? I dont think so, so if you really are in such bad need of typing/grouping with other ppl why dont you just do it? Most of my socialization in LOTRO is done in kinship (their version of guild) and hope there is no problem in this aspect in GW2.

    So if you really need to socialize so much, either type to others, group with others, or better, go out and meet people in real.

  • LathialLathial Denver, COPosts: 173Member Common
    Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

    [mod edit]

    i totally welcome gw2's take on social aspects of mmos. it frees me to join guilds according to how much i like their members and the vibe of the guild rather than forcing me to hang out with people i'd never have any contact with just because i want to see the full content. it broke my heart when i had to leave a friendly guild full of people i knew in WoW to join a revolting raiding behemoth just so i could play some crummy endgame raids. balls to you, sir and thank you anet for finally giving the players a choice on how much to socialize and with whom.

    [mod edit]  If you re-read my post I didnt say i have not joined a guild / group- i say that I have not joined one and had fun.  

    [mod edit]

     

    Lath

  • adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,036Member Uncommon
    pretty sure whatever side of an argument has the most meme regurgitators is the wrong one.
  • ChrisReitzChrisReitz Newport, KYPosts: 115Member
    Im glad you like the game I can tell you will be playing this along time. Its fun playing a game you can enjoy. If you dont like it you could always quit playing <.<
  • redman875redman875 illinois, ILPosts: 230Member
    Originally posted by Lathial

     

    GW2 tried to get rid of the trinity...unfortunately what they got rid of was grouping. My first character I tried to make a support role and none of them are set up to be support.  Just plain DPS and your own heal works better in world and dungeons.

    This is a solo game with a-sorta-blitz-kiteing-group content.  And, the 'Events' get old just like rifts did.  World events get old really fast- how could we have fallen for this again?  I mean there is no different between rifts in Rift and events in GW2.

    It’s really a bummer cause I like the game and the pace of combat.  However, I have 8 toons, one of each class and, most of them post 40, and I have never talked to anyone in the game.  I don’t even really remember any person’s name that I have seen or grouped with for dungeons. Its interesting cause this is the first game that I have not joined a guild / group of people and had tons of fun.  Its like im playing a single player game with some goofy AI named "deesnutz" and "drizzt" who will occasionally join me for a veteran or champion kill.  

    I like playing the game and I like the world its unfortunate that the PvE game is just a single player game.

    Honestly, everyday I think about going back to TSW, EQ2, WoW, Rift, or something where you play with other people- I may not make it a month.  It’s too bad.  I have a feeling - and from reading all the new comments from these and other boards- the complaints are starting to roll in and the "fan-boys" are starting to feel it too- that after a month or two this game will end up in the same boat as The Secret World: After a month everyone will be done with the game- and move to something else.

    Lath

     

     

    You guys keep falling for the hyper, over and over and over again. Been happening since AoC.

     

    People over hype a game based on developer info and playing the starting areas in beta.

    Marketing department just has to keep dropping silly buzzwords like "revolutionary" "innovative" "game-changing" and people get all giddy and try to force their limited experience in beta to conform to make it true.

     

    Then after launch, after the honeymoon period ends, it becomes a problem with you not the game, that your not enjoying it.  "You sound like your just burned out on mmorpgs in general" "your just not playing the game right" "you cant play this game like wow you noob" ect

     

    Its funny that people did think that the makers of a shallow co-op mmo would make a sequil that was deep and meaningfull.  They were very smart to make the game f2p witha box sale, game would be in serious trouble if they had a sub.  And the games going to be in trouble if they try to sell another box.  Im guess this game goes full f2p no box, cash shop dependant shortly.

     

    Best bet is that when i game get ridiculous hype, and it becomes obvious when you look for it, to just avoid it.  When fans go into every other game subforum bash the game and tout their game as the next big thing...you know its reached that level.

     

    Its sad to see how easily people will beilieve thing they want, no matter how realistic it is.  Marketing departments have become that good or people have become gullible and willing to belive anything they are told, so long as it makes them feel good to belive it....makes you wonder about other more serious issues and how people get manipulated.

     

    *its alsways good to see someone who finally gets it, perhaps enough peoples eyes become open the less we will see cheap reskins and shallow mmo's and start seeing more deep MMORPGs like the old days.

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,609Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by khamul787
    Originally posted by Xiaoki I think the DEs in GW2 are in ways worse than the rifts in Rift. In Rift everyone was placed in a group, no one talks and everyone just drops group immediately after the rift is down but you were part of a group. In GW2 you are doing a DE with 20 other people but you are by yourself the entire time. You're not part of a group, no one talks and people walk away after the DE even though there are more parts to it. In GW2 you might as well be doing DEs with a bunch of NPCs because thats what this system has turned other people into. The one shining example of people supporting each other: reviving others that are Downed, happens less and less the higher level you are. People begin to realize that participation credit for all DEs is based on damage done only so taking a couple seconds to revive someone that couldnt be bothered to dodge out of the AoE could mean a drop a Bronze. Or worse yet, to no credit at all. This can happen when you have 40 people zerging their way to victory in the Orr DEs.
    Interesting, considering you are blatantly wrong. DE participation includes everything from DPS to rezzing, to healing of your allies, and the application of boons and conditions. I constantly see people rezzing in events, people thanking each other and grouping up to go do something else. The game is what you make of it, but just because you want to play alone does not mean that you can come in here and pretend that everyone else in the game is.

    Um, no.

    For a kill DE, only damage gives you participation. Rezzing, healing, boons and conditions gives you no participation credit at all.

    This is another area of contention with many fans but ArenaNet wont comment on it, they've even closed a couple topics about it on the official message boards.

  • PilnkplonkPilnkplonk zagrebPosts: 1,532Member
    Originally posted by Lathial
    Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

    balls to the OP

    GW2 is a game without forced grouping, not without grouping per-se

    first you whine how you want to group and then you admit you haven't even bothered to join a guild.

    you mad, bro?

    i totally welcome gw2's take on social aspects of mmos. it frees me to join guilds according to how much i like their members and the vibe of the guild rather than forcing me to hang out with people i'd never have any contact with just because i want to see the full content. it broke my heart when i had to leave a friendly guild full of people i knew in WoW to join a revolting raiding behemoth just so i could play some crummy endgame raids. balls to you, sir and thank you anet for finally giving the players a choice on how much to socialize and with whom.

    Ahh another reading comprehension problem.  If you re-read my post I didnt say i have not joined a guild / group- i say that I have not joined one and had fun.  

    Next time read or ask someone who can read and comprehend to explain before you go all cheesey on someone.  Thanks have a nice day.

     

    Lath

    ahh, all those different letters and words sometimes do prove to be too much for me... anywayz, the rest of my post still stands. imo guilds should be social tools, first and foremost. i join guilds in mmos to chat up with interesting people and go off on adventures together. imo your problems are not due to the game but the simple fact that you haven't found people that interest you yet ingame.

  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Calgary, ABPosts: 2,156Member

    So you chose not to group? I grouped while leveling and now I am on some of those players' friends list, and doing quests and events with a group goes by so much faster and is more fun.


    Like the second post said, the game is what you make it.

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  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Calgary, ABPosts: 2,156Member


    Originally posted by redman875
    Then after launch, after the honeymoon period ends, it becomes a problem with you not the game, that your not enjoying it.  "You sound like your just burned out on mmorpgs in general" "your just not playing the game right" "you cant play this game like wow you noob" ect

    I didn't follow GW2 at all before launch, but I went and got it as did most of my guild because of the pvp system, I didn't get it to grind for gear or to pve all day. So far I'm very satisfied and am still having fun, it is a much much much much better game than SWTOR and most other MMO's out right now.


    And I have to agree with the quotes you said, some people ARE playing GW2 wrong, I have a guildmate that cares far too much about gear and is always broke (he spent 10 points into all the traits and haven't even trained the 2nd and 3rd tier traits yet because he has no gold to buy the books!) and I keep telling him he's doing it wrong.

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