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Why do People Hate OWPVP?

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  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member
    people don't like greifing? I like getting attacked from behind from time to time, makes the game fun...I like sneaking up on other people too.

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  • dumbo11dumbo11 GuildfordPosts: 134Member
    Originally posted by Jonoku
    people don't like greifing? I like getting attacked from behind from time to time, makes the game fun...I like sneaking up on other people too.

    o_O that sounds cool.  It also doesn't sound remotely like open-pvp in practice.

    Open pvp is:

    - getting attacked during recovery after killing a mob.

    - getting attacked by 4+ players.

    - getting attacked by players dozens of levels higher than you.

    - having your pve objective camped by some of the above.

    - being perma-mezzed/stunlocked.

    - being corpse-camped.

    - doing the above to someone else.

    - watching the above happen to someone else without any way to help them.

    ---

    Some people like owpvp, most don't.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by dumbo11
    Originally posted by Jonoku
    people don't like greifing? I like getting attacked from behind from time to time, makes the game fun...I like sneaking up on other people too.

    o_O that sounds cool.  It also doesn't sound remotely like open-pvp in practice.

    Open pvp is:

    - getting attacked during recovery after killing a mob.

    Don't "recover" in the open. Getting attacked whilst fighting a mob though can occur as you are not always able to "keep and eye out". Still does not occur very often unless on major mobs and there you should be taking more care or more friends.

    - getting attacked by 4+ players.

    Can happen, but looking around and moving tends to massively reduce this from happening. You can get "ganked" in lake and other forms of non OPvP, in fact it occurs more in other forms.

    - getting attacked by players dozens of levels higher than you.

    The main OPvP games on the market don't have levels.

    - having your pve objective camped by some of the above.

    Can be a pain, bring friends or move to another objective for a while.

    - being perma-mezzed/stunlocked.

    Happens in all forms of pvp when the combat system is bad. Not really a complaint that can be leveled purely at OPvP.

    - being corpse-camped.

    Can happen in some games, in most there is an easy work around or it simply is not applicable in the first place.

    - doing the above to someone else.

    - watching the above happen to someone else without any way to help them.

    Both are down the the individual players, not the system. People run past and ignore people in need in GW2 or ninja skill points leaving you to fight the mobs before leaving you on your tod. Others help out.

    ---

    Some people like owpvp, most don't.

    True and that will probably always be the case. But alot either have zero real experience of it from the start, or buy into alot of the negative (and uninformed) hyperbole that gets spouted about it.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,198Member Uncommon
    Open world pvp just turns into nothing but a gank fest with max level charas picking on lower levels that have no chance, its just not any fun in general due to the assholeish nature of the pvp player in general. Its why games like darkfall and such keep failing, because of that plus the fact there is full looting. ruining someones day can be fun but people will only put up with so much before they just give up and quit the game.

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  • tixylixtixylix gfff, TNPosts: 1,207Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bijou

     


    Originally posted by Drachasor
    When a level 50 guy shows up in the level 10 zone, you can't defend yourself.  You're dead.  It's not about being "too much of a challenge", but rather open world PvP encourages people to behave like jerks.  I don't like that kind of "gameplay."

     

    This.

     

    No this makes no sense, it's easy to fix....... oh yeah WoW had it so you couldn't be attacked until level 20+ zones.

  • tixylixtixylix gfff, TNPosts: 1,207Member Uncommon

    I love open world PVP, sadly people join a PVP server and then whine about it........ if you don't like it then JOIN A FUCKING PVE SERVER!

     

    But no they get their way and developers turn their games into Battleground PVP and worlds don't exist any more.

  • tixylixtixylix gfff, TNPosts: 1,207Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dumbo11
    Originally posted by Jonoku
    people don't like greifing? I like getting attacked from behind from time to time, makes the game fun...I like sneaking up on other people too.

    o_O that sounds cool.  It also doesn't sound remotely like open-pvp in practice.

    Open pvp is:

    - getting attacked during recovery after killing a mob.

    - getting attacked by 4+ players.

    - getting attacked by players dozens of levels higher than you.

    - having your pve objective camped by some of the above.

    - being perma-mezzed/stunlocked.

    - being corpse-camped.

    - doing the above to someone else.

    - watching the above happen to someone else without any way to help them.

    ---

    Some people like owpvp, most don't.

     

    That isn't a complaint about open world PVP but the game mechanics.... mostly down to level/turn based MMO combat.

    Play Dayz and all that goes away and it turns to being about skill, sadly hackers have over run the game though.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by Vunak23

    Sounds like you got owned pretty hardcore by somebody, and no need for insults either bud, very childish. You can stick to your easy scripted fights, I like challenge and as do most PvPers. Thats why we do it, because humans are unpredictable, while an AI isn't. Go through a PVE fight once and it isn't going to change the next time around. 

    Where as fighting the same class/skill set of one player is gonna differ from anothers even though they are playing the same class/skillset. 

    What part of "I don't play PvP" don't you get?  I've never been "owned" by anyone because I've never wasted my time playing that way.

    And I don't care if you want to go voluntarily kick the crap out of each other, have your arenas or battlegrounds or whatever.  That's not what we're talking about here.  I don't want to take part in your grief-fest, where you get to attack anyone playing the game, just because you've got a sword and they look vulnerable, and that's exactly what happens in OWPvP.  You want to attack others?  Knock yourself out.  I want to be able to completely opt out of it so you couldn't attack me if you wanted to.

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  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by dumbo11
    Originally posted by Jonoku
    people don't like greifing? I like getting attacked from behind from time to time, makes the game fun...I like sneaking up on other people too.

    o_O that sounds cool.  It also doesn't sound remotely like open-pvp in practice.

    Open pvp is:

    - getting attacked during recovery after killing a mob.

    - getting attacked by 4+ players.

    - getting attacked by players dozens of levels higher than you.

    - having your pve objective camped by some of the above.

    - being perma-mezzed/stunlocked.

    - being corpse-camped.

    - doing the above to someone else.

    - watching the above happen to someone else without any way to help them.

    ---

    Some people like owpvp, most don't.

     of course your listing  examples of open world pvp from days gone by..usually the free for all games. It doesnt have to be remotely anything like this.

     and i certainly wouldnt want to attack you. I would defend you, though im not sure you would deserve it :)

     

  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by dumbo11
    Originally posted by Jonoku
    people don't like greifing? I like getting attacked from behind from time to time, makes the game fun...I like sneaking up on other people too.

    o_O that sounds cool.  It also doesn't sound remotely like open-pvp in practice.

    Open pvp is:

    - getting attacked during recovery after killing a mob.

    - getting attacked by 4+ players.

    - getting attacked by players dozens of levels higher than you.

    - having your pve objective camped by some of the above.

    - being perma-mezzed/stunlocked.

    - being corpse-camped.

    - doing the above to someone else.

    - watching the above happen to someone else without any way to help them.

    ---

    Some people like owpvp, most don't.

    I don't think you have the same experience I have. You can simply toggle on or off for pvp so you don't have to worry about getting ganked and laughed at unless your on a pvp server. What you listed isn't the main point for open world pvp either, the main point is for a conflict and to fight for a faction with pride in non-instanced pvp, preferably ranged classes are good.(in a zerg vs zerg battle. Target of target is your friend.) Being hardcore camped? This is why people need good guilds that will back you up......common sense, I love getting camped with my guild flanking the enemy from behind, such a great distraction......gotta love it.

    Back to me talking about the main point for open world pvp, we can discuss it for 1,000 years and never agree what exactly it is for, one of the big topics.

    Also, note that there is always a counter for every single thing in life and virtual life/gaming. If you still see that nothing can be done to stop the ganking while on a pvp server I don't think you played long enough to realize.

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  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by Siveria
    Open world pvp just turns into nothing but a gank fest with max level charas picking on lower levels that have no chance, its just not any fun in general due to the assholeish nature of the pvp player in general. Its why games like darkfall and such keep failing, because of that plus the fact there is full looting. ruining someones day can be fun but people will only put up with so much before they just give up and quit the game.

    You guys are either not hardcore, or not smart enough to come up with a counter. The old days you use to be able to loot all the person's stuff when you kill them in PvP, those were the best days and not part of a failure because majority of the people loved that aspect of the game, part of it being hardcore.

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  • Vunak23Vunak23 In your house eatin'' your cookies, FLPosts: 635Member
    Originally posted by dumbo11
    Originally posted by Jonoku
    people don't like greifing? I like getting attacked from behind from time to time, makes the game fun...I like sneaking up on other people too.

    o_O that sounds cool.  It also doesn't sound remotely like open-pvp in practice.

    Open pvp is:

    - getting attacked during recovery after killing a mob.

    - getting attacked by 4+ players.

    - getting attacked by players dozens of levels higher than you.

    - having your pve objective camped by some of the above.

    - being perma-mezzed/stunlocked.

    - being corpse-camped.

    - doing the above to someone else.

    - watching the above happen to someone else without any way to help them.

    ---

    Some people like owpvp, most don't.

    Ahh the age old arguement against OWPvP. When someone comes up with a list like this they are not from the older generation or are completely antisocial gamers. Everyone has this illusion that MMO's are meant to be some massive single player game, when they are not. 

    NONE of those would be an issue if you would get into a guild or get some people on your friends list to play with. Stop being so antisocial with an experience that is supposed to be social. 

    Hell when I was running around by myself (if ever) in OWPvP games and I got jumped or ganked, yea I would die. But I would figure out where I was at on the map, who killed me and grab my own buddies and hunt him down and take revenge. Above is where the term carebear came from...perfect example. Bitch and whine until things conform to you instead of taking action yourself. 

     

    Not to mention some of those on that list aren't even OWPvP exclusive. Stunlocking happens in all forms of PvP, its bad game design as a whole. Corpse Camped happens in all forms. Getting attack by 4+ players happens in all forms of PvP. Getting attacked after finishing a fight, happens in all forms of PvP. 

    "In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Why is it so hard to understand?

    Most players don't like pvp except as a form of e-sport in an arena. It is just a preference. Look at LOL .. #1 online game. Played more than WOW.

     

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,578Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vunak23
    Originally posted by dumbo11
    Originally posted by Jonoku
    people don't like greifing? I like getting attacked from behind from time to time, makes the game fun...I like sneaking up on other people too.

    o_O that sounds cool.  It also doesn't sound remotely like open-pvp in practice.

    Open pvp is:

    - getting attacked during recovery after killing a mob.

    - getting attacked by 4+ players.

    - getting attacked by players dozens of levels higher than you.

    - having your pve objective camped by some of the above.

    - being perma-mezzed/stunlocked.

    - being corpse-camped.

    - doing the above to someone else.

    - watching the above happen to someone else without any way to help them.

    ---

    Some people like owpvp, most don't.

    Ahh the age old arguement against OWPvP. When someone comes up with a list like this they are not from the older generation or are completely antisocial gamers. Everyone has this illusion that MMO's are meant to be some massive single player game, when they are not. 

    NONE of those would be an issue if you would get into a guild or get some people on your friends list to play with. Stop being so antisocial with an experience that is supposed to be social. 

    Hell when I was running around by myself (if ever) in OWPvP games and I got jumped or ganked, yea I would die. But I would figure out where I was at on the map, who killed me and grab my own buddies and hunt him down and take revenge. Above is where the term carebear came from...perfect example. Bitch and whine until things conform to you instead of taking action yourself. 

    Not everyone wants to play a pointless game of revenge.  So the "hardcore" just bitch and whine that their games die because a game of revenge is boring.

  • Vunak23Vunak23 In your house eatin'' your cookies, FLPosts: 635Member
    Originally posted by Horusra
    Originally posted by Vunak23
    Originally posted by dumbo11
    Originally posted by Jonoku
    people don't like greifing? I like getting attacked from behind from time to time, makes the game fun...I like sneaking up on other people too.

    o_O that sounds cool.  It also doesn't sound remotely like open-pvp in practice.

    Open pvp is:

    - getting attacked during recovery after killing a mob.

    - getting attacked by 4+ players.

    - getting attacked by players dozens of levels higher than you.

    - having your pve objective camped by some of the above.

    - being perma-mezzed/stunlocked.

    - being corpse-camped.

    - doing the above to someone else.

    - watching the above happen to someone else without any way to help them.

    ---

    Some people like owpvp, most don't.

    Ahh the age old arguement against OWPvP. When someone comes up with a list like this they are not from the older generation or are completely antisocial gamers. Everyone has this illusion that MMO's are meant to be some massive single player game, when they are not. 

    NONE of those would be an issue if you would get into a guild or get some people on your friends list to play with. Stop being so antisocial with an experience that is supposed to be social. 

    Hell when I was running around by myself (if ever) in OWPvP games and I got jumped or ganked, yea I would die. But I would figure out where I was at on the map, who killed me and grab my own buddies and hunt him down and take revenge. Above is where the term carebear came from...perfect example. Bitch and whine until things conform to you instead of taking action yourself. 

    Not everyone wants to play a pointless game of revenge.  So the "hardcore" just bitch and whine that their games die because a game of revenge is boring.

    Its not pointless if your fighting over resources or Elite Mobs and such and push a guild off it so your PvE crew can take it out. 

    Also stop playing by yourself and you dont have to  worry about geting revenge. Static encounters are boring thats why so many people are holding out for a game like ArcheAge or the updated Darkfall...Repopulation etc. 

    Why do you think they are trying to bring OWPvP back in a massive game like WoW? Because there is a high demand for it. 

    "In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,578Member Uncommon
    So I can only play the game when other people are on that are friendly to me.  Another reason why EQ style group forced games fail.  My game time should not be dependant on other people being there and in most OWPvP the only thing you can do alone is run or gank most of the time.  Not that exciting.
  • nickster29nickster29 Holmen, WIPosts: 486Member
    I personally have never had a problem with open world PvP, I actually tend to enjoy it in some cases (latest one being Rift).  I have never really gotten bothered by getting killed by a higher level ganking lowbies, but I don't enjoy doing it myself.  I follow one simple rule:  If you are lower level than me, I will generally not attack you unless you attack me.  There are some exceptions to the rule of course, such as if you belong to a guild that I am KoS with.
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Vunak23
    Originally posted by Horusra Originally posted by Vunak23 Originally posted by dumbo11 Originally posted by Jonoku people don't like greifing? I like getting attacked from behind from time to time, makes the game fun...I like sneaking up on other people too.
    o_O that sounds cool.  It also doesn't sound remotely like open-pvp in practice. Open pvp is: - getting attacked during recovery after killing a mob. - getting attacked by 4+ players. - getting attacked by players dozens of levels higher than you. - having your pve objective camped by some of the above. - being perma-mezzed/stunlocked. - being corpse-camped. - doing the above to someone else. - watching the above happen to someone else without any way to help them. --- Some people like owpvp, most don't.
    Ahh the age old arguement against OWPvP. When someone comes up with a list like this they are not from the older generation or are completely antisocial gamers. Everyone has this illusion that MMO's are meant to be some massive single player game, when they are not.  NONE of those would be an issue if you would get into a guild or get some people on your friends list to play with. Stop being so antisocial with an experience that is supposed to be social.  Hell when I was running around by myself (if ever) in OWPvP games and I got jumped or ganked, yea I would die. But I would figure out where I was at on the map, who killed me and grab my own buddies and hunt him down and take revenge. Above is where the term carebear came from...perfect example. Bitch and whine until things conform to you instead of taking action yourself. 
    Not everyone wants to play a pointless game of revenge.  So the "hardcore" just bitch and whine that their games die because a game of revenge is boring.
    Its not pointless if your fighting over resources or Elite Mobs and such and push a guild off it so your PvE crew can take it out. 

    Also stop playing by yourself and you dont have to  worry about geting revenge. Static encounters are boring thats why so many people are holding out for a game like ArcheAge or the updated Darkfall...Repopulation etc. 

    Why do you think they are trying to bring OWPvP back in a massive game like WoW? Because there is a high demand for it. 




    Blizzard implemented CRZ just to bring back open world PvP? Really? Silly me, I thought it was so that there would be more people in the world and people would quest together. Silly me.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,849Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vunak23
    /snip

    Its not pointless if your fighting over resources or Elite Mobs and such and push a guild off it so your PvE crew can take it out. 

    Also stop playing by yourself and you dont have to  worry about geting revenge. Static encounters are boring thats why so many people are holding out for a game like ArcheAge or the updated Darkfall...Repopulation etc. 

    Why do you think they are trying to bring OWPvP back in a massive game like WoW? Because there is a high demand for it. 

     

    On PvP servers yes.  Those that already wanted OWPvP are wanting more of it this is true.  I thought it was brilliant on Blizzards part but does not mean more people want OWPvP that didn't before.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member
    Originally posted by Parasitenoir

    Hey guys - (just to start so no flaming occurs) i will be playing gw2 so I am not a hater.  I just have a more general question.

     

    Why is it that people do not like true open world pvp, where you can gank anyone while they are questing etc.  I enjoyed it in wow while it existed (vanilla-slightly BC), Rift was good, and currently gaming in Tera.

    Is it the annoyance of being ganked and not being able to defend yourself.  Does it provide to much of a challenge.  Or is our generation just lazy and prefer to sit in a town and just que for stuff.

     

    I personally like the OWPVP and being able to mess with someones day while there gathering, questing whatever there doing .

     

    what are peoples thoughts on this?

    Because it is pointless?

     

    Take Rift as an example since you mentioned it. If 3 guys ran up and started to attack me while I qas questing/hunting I simply did the dance emote while they killed me, went back to my spawn point, paid a couple of silver to get rid of the penalty and went back on my way. What did they gain and what did I lose? Nothing at all.

     

    Now let's say you add a serious penalty to dying so open world PvP can really cause some havoc. Well then people just won't play the game. When people want to log in to get some quests done but can suffer serious consequences when some guy and his 5 friends pop out and kill him, he gets frustrated that his gaming time was wasted and that he is now worse off then when he logged in and he quits the game. For most people, PvP has to be something they're in the mood for and they aren't always in the mood for it. So you can't just say it will happen anytime at all. On top of that you have the immature who instead of just killing a guy, will then hunt out/camp/harass that same guy for the humor of it which is even more likely to make people quit.

     

    You just can't create a system where open world PvP is interesting enough to get involved in, yet not severe enough that that mainstream audience (instead of the niche audience that loves PvP all the time) will want to play on a server/in a world that has it. Also the mainstream audience tends to prefer a fair fight, where as most open world PvP is a group running around ganking solo people and that group runs off as soon as an opposing group shows up. They then find another area without a big group and pick on solo people again. Overall that isn't a fun gaming experience.

  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member

    It's turning into a flame war of course, using the word hardcore players are bitching about games not being what it use to be of OPvP. Like I said before, read my previous post, we can talk about this for a thousand years and not agree or make no progress of agreement.

    We can always say that players that hate getting ganked bitch about it. Solution: Leave the game/join a pve server. Simple as shit really.

    Look everyone, it's just like arguing over which is better pve or pvp for example. No progress of agreement at all.

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  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,578Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jonoku

    It's turning into a flame war of course, using the word hardcore players are bitching about games not being what it use to be of OPvP. Like I said before, read my previous post, we can talk about this for a thousand years and not agree or make no progress of agreement.

    We can always say that players that hate getting ganked bitch about it. Solution: Leave the game/join a pve server. Simple as shit really.

    They do...and the OPvP servers are the smallest and OPvP games dwindle to niche status.

  • ZigZagsZigZags Modesto, CAPosts: 328Member

    Most people are cry babies and casuals who dont want to lose something they spent hours or days going after. Plus it would be against their Dr.'s orders because of the increase in blood pressure that is associated with the adrenalin rush of actual excitement.

     

    That's why games like WoW and GW2 exist, so people like that have somewhere safe to play.

     

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  • mastersomratmastersomrat Saint Charles, MOPosts: 368Member
    Because most of the time PvP in a game a lvl based.  PvP should always be skill based.
  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by Horusra
    Originally posted by Jonoku

    It's turning into a flame war of course, using the word hardcore players are bitching about games not being what it use to be of OPvP. Like I said before, read my previous post, we can talk about this for a thousand years and not agree or make no progress of agreement.

    We can always say that players that hate getting ganked bitch about it. Solution: Leave the game/join a pve server. Simple as shit really.

    They do...and the OPvP servers are the smallest and OPvP games dwindle to niche status.

    nowadays, PvP servers aren't worth mentioning because the quality of it is just terrible nowadays(so just say all the servers are pve basically). Some company will be smart enough to bring the quality back just takes time, majority are still waiting on that quality sandbox game, not to bring sandbox vs themepark discussion up either, just an example of bringing it back.

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