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[Preview] MechWarrior Online: The Legend Returns

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  • StizzledStizzled Springfield, MOPosts: 1,264Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    Originally posted by Stizzled

    Your still confusing convenience with advantage. An advantage would be obtaining something that I as a free player cannot attain. That's not possible to do in WoT, except for the premium tanks. But, as a WoT player yourself, I think you would agree that premium tanks offer no advantage, just convenience.

     

    The problem is with the players. It's those people who don't play games to have fun, they play them to compete. They have to win, they have to be the best. For me, if I get blown up in a match I shrug it off and get into another match. It never crosses my mind that the person who killed me might have a premium account, or be using gold ammo, it just doesn't matter.

     

    There's a difference between F2P and P2W. F2P means that I can jump in the game, play as much as I want and if there is something that I think I want to buy then I can purchase it. P2W forces you to purchase things, it means that you literally cannot progress or compete without spending money. I respect your opinion and I understand your position, but I just don't agree. WoT never forces you to pay a dime, and because of that it isn't P2W at all.

     

    I have direct knowledge of MWO, and from what I've seen so far, it's not P2W. Now, someday it might be. I can see several ways that they could go down that road, but they havn't yet.

     

    And yet, if people buy their way to advanced mechs by way of the cashshop, on the first day, they can start advancing their skills with the mech they will end up using, right away.

    And THAT is a worthwhile advantage, as well as say Ultra auto-cannons vs normal ones, and the eventuality of Clan weapons, which are, in fact better. Pay the money, get the better stuff first (which is better than the base mechs/weapons) and be able to build you edge faster.

    That is possible with how they have MWO laid out and how the cash shop will work. Some people will pay the money to dominate off the bat,  and that is the P2W Mel is talking about.

    And again, it is only because this is PvP centric that it is a problem.

     

    There's really no buying your way into advanced mechs. There are just mechs, and they each excel at different things. There is no real mech progression, you just purchase, upgrade and pilot mechs you enjoy. Player skill and knowledge plays a much larger role than the amount of money spent. A person is either going to be good at this game or they aren't, no amount of money is going to save them from dumb weapon loadouts or poor teamwork.


  • treysmoothtreysmooth Martinsville, INPosts: 626Member
    Originally posted by Stizzled
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    Originally posted by Stizzled

    Your still confusing convenience with advantage. An advantage would be obtaining something that I as a free player cannot attain. That's not possible to do in WoT, except for the premium tanks. But, as a WoT player yourself, I think you would agree that premium tanks offer no advantage, just convenience.

     

    The problem is with the players. It's those people who don't play games to have fun, they play them to compete. They have to win, they have to be the best. For me, if I get blown up in a match I shrug it off and get into another match. It never crosses my mind that the person who killed me might have a premium account, or be using gold ammo, it just doesn't matter.

     

    There's a difference between F2P and P2W. F2P means that I can jump in the game, play as much as I want and if there is something that I think I want to buy then I can purchase it. P2W forces you to purchase things, it means that you literally cannot progress or compete without spending money. I respect your opinion and I understand your position, but I just don't agree. WoT never forces you to pay a dime, and because of that it isn't P2W at all.

     

    I have direct knowledge of MWO, and from what I've seen so far, it's not P2W. Now, someday it might be. I can see several ways that they could go down that road, but they havn't yet.

     

    And yet, if people buy their way to advanced mechs by way of the cashshop, on the first day, they can start advancing their skills with the mech they will end up using, right away.

    And THAT is a worthwhile advantage, as well as say Ultra auto-cannons vs normal ones, and the eventuality of Clan weapons, which are, in fact better. Pay the money, get the better stuff first (which is better than the base mechs/weapons) and be able to build you edge faster.

    That is possible with how they have MWO laid out and how the cash shop will work. Some people will pay the money to dominate off the bat,  and that is the P2W Mel is talking about.

    And again, it is only because this is PvP centric that it is a problem.

     

    There's really no buying your way into advanced mechs. There are just mechs, and they each excel at different things. There is no real mech progression, you just purchase, upgrade and pilot mechs you enjoy. Player skill and knowledge plays a much larger role than the amount of money spent. A person is either going to be good at this game or they aren't, no amount of money is going to save them from dumb weapon loadouts or poor teamwork.

    This, the mechs all have upsides and downsides.  Each type of weapon has upsides and downsides.  There is currently nothing in the game that can't be achieved simply by playing the game.  MWO is how f2p should be done, the game will have a large player base due to being free and is like others have said a convience thing not pay to win.

    Wot's is a different animal.  It is pay for convience to a point, if you want to play clan wars you are goin to have to buy gold to fire gold rounds or find a clan that will give you some to begin with if they have some stockpiled.  In pug games I don't really notice anyone fire gold rounds other than the odd guy who forgot to change out his ammo after clan wars(I've done this myself once).

    The fact that the premium stuff isn't used in pug games for the most part, I'd say Wot's is mostly pay for convience but thats not to say if a moron with to much money couldn't tip the scales toward pay to win if they spent enough.  This coming from someont that has a few tier 10's and various other tanks along with 8 months of play time.

  • ScribbleLay1ScribbleLay1 Mt Pleasant, SCPosts: 177Member
    Did I miss the free-roaming exploration of the game?
  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,134Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    More mechs and further customizations can be purchased through the use of C-Bills, the game’s currency. Interestingly, C-Bills can be earned through game play or can be purchased with real-world dollars.

    Players can then use earned currency to purchase buffs for mechs. A nice touch that Piranha has added is that buffs purchased by players are account wide and can be used on any mech.

     

    This right here is the big problem. (And, as usual, the MMORPG.com author skips right over it.)

    This is pure, unadulterated Pay to Win. In a PvP game.

    And the company is not even trying to hide it.

    Want upgraded mechs?Full Repairs? Want superior mechs? Buffs? Pay more real world cash. Or Suffer.

     

    I will not play any PvP game that is so unabashedly P2W, and a lot of others won't either.

    And I notice that point is mentioned no where in the article.

     

     

     

    It is pay-2-get-varies, not so much pay-2-win.

    Because if you played Mechwarrior series you will know that knowledge of equipment, heat management and use of terrain trumps everything else.

    You can kill a heavies easily if you deck out your light mech with 2 AC10s and know how to use it properly (leg humpers are hell of difficult to deal with for heavies and assaulters).

  • ReesRacerReesRacer Dallas, TXPosts: 155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    Originally posted by mmorpgdooder
    [mod edit]

    So on day one of Live, someone that logs on and blows $200 on buying better classes of mechs and weapons, and buffs, is not going to kick the ass of every player that doesn't, at anything approaching the same skill level?

    You know that is going to happen, and saying otherwise does not make it true.

    Like many others, I do not find this to be a good thing for a PvP-centric game.

     

    too bad the NDA is still in tact, or you wouldn't have a leg to stand on, pal. don't make accusations about what P2W mechanics you assume will be in place when the game goes live. the developers have made it perfectly clear that absolutely no special extra awesome mechs or ammo (or buffs) are avalable only for real money, and if you'd carefully read Suzi's article, you would see that mechs have to be leveled independently to attain certain skill increases. additionally, anyone on day 1 who wants to spend cash on a mech will still likely have no clue how to pilot it without having spent hours learning it's strengths and weakenesses as well as the particulars of all the maps. i know most current beta players want to PLAY the game and earn their mechs.  and finally, learn what P2W actually means...otherwise you are just trolling.

  • ThanosxpThanosxp floripaPosts: 168Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by 9reesracer9
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    Originally posted by mmorpgdooder
    [mod edit]

    So on day one of Live, someone that logs on and blows $200 on buying better classes of mechs and weapons, and buffs, is not going to kick the ass of every player that doesn't, at anything approaching the same skill level?

    You know that is going to happen, and saying otherwise does not make it true.

    Like many others, I do not find this to be a good thing for a PvP-centric game.

     

    too bad the NDA is still in tact, or you wouldn't have a leg to stand on, pal. don't make accusations about what P2W mechanics you assume will be in place when the game goes live. the developers have made it perfectly clear that absolutely no special extra awesome mechs or ammo (or buffs) are avalable only for real money, and if you'd carefully read Suzi's article, you would see that mechs have to be leveled independently to attain certain skill increases. additionally, anyone on day 1 who wants to spend cash on a mech will still likely have no clue how to pilot it without having spent hours learning it's strengths and weakenesses as well as the particulars of all the maps. i know most current beta players want to PLAY the game and earn their mechs.  and finally, learn what P2W actually means...otherwise you are just trolling.

    SO in fact it's kinda like League of Legends? You can get in game everything you need? I mean, even a professional player don't have to spend a dime. Putting it better: If a pro player doesn't spend a dime, not even bill gates can get an advantage over him, small or big. Is that the case?

  • 3-4thElf3-4thElf Elftown, MEPosts: 489Member
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    More mechs and further customizations can be purchased through the use of C-Bills, the game’s currency. Interestingly, C-Bills can be earned through game play or can be purchased with real-world dollars.

    Players can then use earned currency to purchase buffs for mechs. A nice touch that Piranha has added is that buffs purchased by players are account wide and can be used on any mech.

     

    This right here is the big problem. (And, as usual, the MMORPG.com author skips right over it.)

    This is pure, unadulterated Pay to Win. In a PvP game.

    And the company is not even trying to hide it.

    Want upgraded mechs?Full Repairs? Want superior mechs? Buffs? Pay more real world cash. Or Suffer.

     

    I will not play any PvP game that is so unabashedly P2W, and a lot of others won't either.

    And I notice that point is mentioned no where in the article.

     

     

     

    You play tic tac toes exclusivly? Or is paying for a pencil too far out there?

    Sounds to me like you can earn in game currancy at a rate (probably a slow one), but at a rate anyway to earn freebies.

    Then there's paying to access more of the game. Ever play miniatures? If I buy my Atlas, pimp it with some paint and mods, then yeah I'll make you cry if you play.

    BUT it doesn't sound like you can handle a MW game so; thanks for stopping by.

    a yo ho ho

  • ReesRacerReesRacer Dallas, TXPosts: 155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Thanosxp
    Originally posted by 9reesracer9
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    Originally posted by mmorpgdooder
    [mod edit]

    So on day one of Live, someone that logs on and blows $200 on buying better classes of mechs and weapons, and buffs, is not going to kick the ass of every player that doesn't, at anything approaching the same skill level?

    You know that is going to happen, and saying otherwise does not make it true.

    Like many others, I do not find this to be a good thing for a PvP-centric game.

     

    too bad the NDA is still in tact, or you wouldn't have a leg to stand on, pal. don't make accusations about what P2W mechanics you assume will be in place when the game goes live. the developers have made it perfectly clear that absolutely no special extra awesome mechs or ammo (or buffs) are avalable only for real money, and if you'd carefully read Suzi's article, you would see that mechs have to be leveled independently to attain certain skill increases. additionally, anyone on day 1 who wants to spend cash on a mech will still likely have no clue how to pilot it without having spent hours learning it's strengths and weakenesses as well as the particulars of all the maps. i know most current beta players want to PLAY the game and earn their mechs.  and finally, learn what P2W actually means...otherwise you are just trolling.

    SO in fact it's kinda like League of Legends? You can get in game everything you need? I mean, even a professional player don't have to spend a dime. Putting it better: If a pro player doesn't spend a dime, not even bill gates can get an advantage over him, small or big. Is that the case?

    that is, if fact, absolutely the case...exactly. (and well-stated as well) 

    cheers!

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,942Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by 9reesracer9
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    Originally posted by mmorpgdooder
    [mod edit]

    So on day one of Live, someone that logs on and blows $200 on buying better classes of mechs and weapons, and buffs, is not going to kick the ass of every player that doesn't, at anything approaching the same skill level?

    You know that is going to happen, and saying otherwise does not make it true.

    Like many others, I do not find this to be a good thing for a PvP-centric game.

     

    too bad the NDA is still in tact, or you wouldn't have a leg to stand on, pal. don't make accusations about what P2W mechanics you assume will be in place when the game goes live. the developers have made it perfectly clear that absolutely no special extra awesome mechs or ammo (or buffs) are avalable only for real money, and if you'd carefully read Suzi's article, you would see that mechs have to be leveled independently to attain certain skill increases. additionally, anyone on day 1 who wants to spend cash on a mech will still likely have no clue how to pilot it without having spent hours learning it's strengths and weakenesses as well as the particulars of all the maps. i know most current beta players want to PLAY the game and earn their mechs.  and finally, learn what P2W actually means...otherwise you are just trolling.

    Ah yes, the apologists are out in force I see...

    Yes, none of them will be RM cash shop exclusive... BUT every single one of them can be puchased on day one, minute one, with C-bills bought from the cash shop. No grinding required.

    And you don't think, some of the beta players are going to do exactly that?

    Play beta, figure out EXACTLY what build they want, and what works and what doesn't, the load out and customized bits, and then, as soon as things go live, buy that exact setup with real money? And no grinding?

    You know they will. They want the edge. And they will get it, paying cash.

     

    In the end, it does not matter much, the mix of how the cash shop will work, and the "community" of yet another F2P title, only this one even "better" from the heavy PvP focus, are enough to keep me, and others, away from this title.

    No matter how much we love the IP.

     

  • ReesRacerReesRacer Dallas, TXPosts: 155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    Originally posted by 9reesracer9
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    Originally posted by mmorpgdooder
    [mod edit]

    So on day one of Live, someone that logs on and blows $200 on buying better classes of mechs and weapons, and buffs, is not going to kick the ass of every player that doesn't, at anything approaching the same skill level?

    You know that is going to happen, and saying otherwise does not make it true.

    Like many others, I do not find this to be a good thing for a PvP-centric game.

     

    too bad the NDA is still in tact, or you wouldn't have a leg to stand on, pal. don't make accusations about what P2W mechanics you assume will be in place when the game goes live. the developers have made it perfectly clear that absolutely no special extra awesome mechs or ammo (or buffs) are avalable only for real money, and if you'd carefully read Suzi's article, you would see that mechs have to be leveled independently to attain certain skill increases. additionally, anyone on day 1 who wants to spend cash on a mech will still likely have no clue how to pilot it without having spent hours learning it's strengths and weakenesses as well as the particulars of all the maps. i know most current beta players want to PLAY the game and earn their mechs.  and finally, learn what P2W actually means...otherwise you are just trolling.

    Ah yes, the apologists are out in force I see...

    Yes, none of them will be RM cash shop exclusive... BUT every single one of them can be puchased on day one, minute one, with C-bills bought from the cash shop. No grinding required.

    And you don't think, some of the beta players are going to do exactly that?

    Play beta, figure out EXACTLY what build they want, and what works and what doesn't, the load out and customized bits, and then, as soon as things go live, buy that exact setup with real money? And no grinding?

    You know they will. They want the edge. And they will get it, paying cash.

     

    In the end, it does not matter much, the mix of how the cash shop will work, and the "community" of yet another F2P title, only this one even "better" from the heavy PvP focus, are enough to keep me, and others, away from this title.

    No matter how much we love the IP.

     

    you can't pilot the mechs effectively...no matter how much they cost...without earning the experience to unlock the requisite skills necessary by actually playing.  this is a F2P title done right and complaining about a game in which you can be guaranteed to never be at a disadvantage if you actually spend the time to PLAY it (and never spend a dime) is just petty. please go troll elsewhere if you can't speak intelligently and with any authority on the subject.

    your presence on the field won't be missed, but i suspect you will be playing regardless of the protestations.

  • StarCykeStarCyke singaporePosts: 43Member
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

    World of Tanks IS definately Pay 2 Win.  You may not NEED to pay in order to Win...but paying real world cash gives you a mechanical advantage in gameplay over a player that has put a similar ammount of effort/time into the game. That IS the very definition of Pay 2 Win.

     

    People can try to SPIN it to sound like something else...but that's what it is.

     

    QFT.

    This is the core of it, and even proponents of this and similar games can not say it isn't so.

    By paying real money, you CAN get significant advantages over people that do not. Period.

    That happened in World of Tanks and is happening here.

    Buffs, advanced mechs, better weapons, full repairs, the works, all can be bought with C-bills, which are also for sale for real money.

    You can say that you can get many of the same rewards just by grinding in the game, and that is true. But it is also true that you can slap down that CC and get them instantly.

    And that is a big problem for some of us in an PvP heavy game: paying cash for player advantages.

     

    You can try to argue that the advantages are not gamebreaking, but even the boosters of this game can not argue they are not there and not for sale for real money.

     

     

     

    That is why I hate people like you. You are not in beta and assume a lot of things which are wrong. Actually on hindsight I don't really blame you, as the only information you have is from the article. Whoever wrote the article needs to fact check as the important parts of it are really wrong & you will only create a controversy where there is none.

    I believe that in the future, with more customizable implementations of matchmaking where every variable can be considered, there will be no or negligible advantages to be had when 2 teams face off.

    The future implementation of matchmaking will solve all of your presumed bugbears & boogeymens.

    I think I have said more than I should, and I shall leave it at that.

     

     

  • sadeyxsadeyx leicesterPosts: 1,553Member

    open your eyes people, all online games have cash shops now.

     

    And not all of them alow to to earn cash in-game either.

  • KinjiruKinjiru Airway Heights, WAPosts: 25Member

    The interesting thing here is the correlation between MWO and WoT:

     

    WoT: Cash shop with  Premium Ammo, Premium Tanks and  Premium Player Membership, all of which do confer some kind of bonus, be it better penetration in the case of ammo, or a credit/XP bonus for Premium Membership and Premium Tanks, all only purchaseable for the game's premium currency, which is only available for cash. (And don't get me wrong, I love WoT, and play it virtually every day.) It cannot be earned ingame.

     

    MWO:  Premium Currency available which can be earned ingame. All perks, bonuses etc. can therefore be earned without spending a cent. 

     

    As far as I'm concerned, while based on similar market strategies, this point separates the two and pushes MWO firmly out of the Pay to Win category.  If someone wants to spend their beta time working on the "perfect build" (which seems to be moot, since all of them have strengths and weaknesses), then purchase thier way to that build on day one, so what? There is always someone who's outleveled, out grinded (ground?) or just plain risen higher, faster than I have. It's the nature of the beast. I mean, put another way, who's the top player in WoW right now? Who cares?  :)

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,134Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    And yet, if people buy their way to advanced mechs by way of the cashshop, on the first day, they can start advancing their skills with the mech they will end up using, right away.

    And THAT is a worthwhile advantage, as well as say Ultra auto-cannons vs normal ones, and the eventuality of Clan weapons, which are, in fact better. Pay the money, get the better stuff first (which is better than the base mechs/weapons) and be able to build you edge faster.

    That is possible with how they have MWO laid out and how the cash shop will work. Some people will pay the money to dominate off the bat,  and that is the P2W Mel is talking about.

    And again, it is only because this is PvP centric that it is a problem.

     

    You really haven't play anything Mechwarrior or Battletech haven't you?

    There is NO such thing as "more advanced mechs" in mechwarrior universe if you play for example Mechwarrior 4: Mercenary. There is only loadouts and hardpoints. And no matter what you do Inner Sphere mechs (the settings of MWO is in the 3rd War of Succession so there is none of that clans crap) have quite specific loadouts and hardpoints and armor and internal types.

    Also there is NO such thing as "more advance weapons". AC20 is NOT better than PPC. Yes AC20 does more damage and generate almost no heat, but it only works with 300-400m and needs ammo storage which might explode if hit. PPC generates a lot of heat but can short out/overheat enemy mech's system and has great range.

    It sounded like you really know nothing about any Mechwarrior games before you whine.

  • scotty899scotty899 townsvillePosts: 166Member

    im in beta and havin a blast. wish i had a joystick.

    im a mechwarrior fan so im not fussed over the whole real money thing. if you like something you will spend what ever you want on it

     

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    More mechs and further customizations can be purchased through the use of C-Bills, the game’s currency. Interestingly, C-Bills can be earned through game play or can be purchased with real-world dollars.

    Players can then use earned currency to purchase buffs for mechs. A nice touch that Piranha has added is that buffs purchased by players are account wide and can be used on any mech.

     

    This right here is the big problem. (And, as usual, the MMORPG.com author skips right over it.)

    This is pure, unadulterated Pay to Win. In a PvP game.

    And the company is not even trying to hide it.

    Want upgraded mechs?Full Repairs? Want superior mechs? Buffs? Pay more real world cash. Or Suffer.

     

    I will not play any PvP game that is so unabashedly P2W, and a lot of others won't either.

    And I notice that point is mentioned no where in the article.

     

     

     

    It would only be pay to win if it really gave you an advantage....  So you can falk out some cash and buy a mech.. said mech will not make you win a fight so you get no advantage... The buffs are mainly XP and cash buffs from what i know.

  • ToothmanToothman Greenfield, WIPosts: 72Member
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    Originally posted by agnostic4eve
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    --- C-Bills can be earned through game play ---

     

    This right here is the big problem. (And, as usual, the MMORPG.com author skips right over it.)

    This is pure, unadulterated Pay to Win.

    And the company is not even trying to hide it.

    Want upgraded mechs?Full Repairs? Want superior mechs? Buffs? Pay more real world cash. Or Suffer.

     

    I will not play any PvP game that is so unabshedly P2W, and a lot of others won't either.

    And I notice that point is mentioned no where in the article.

     

     

     

    You seem to have done the same.

     

    The amount of C-bills earned through game play is actually quite considerable. However, if you would prefer not to wait until you have earned a sufficient amount, you can buy your way into a really nice mech, then have it destroyed.

     

    Playing the game for the currency is really the best option in this game, trust me. It will provide enough for repairs and new mechs with a little patience. Oh and skill, don't forget skill, it kind of counts in this title.

    More mechs and further customizations can be purchased through the use of C-Bills, the game’s currency. Interestingly, C-Bills can be earned through game play or can be purchased with real-world dollars.

    Players can then use earned currency to purchase buffs for mechs. A nice touch that Piranha has added is that buffs purchased by players are account wide and can be used on any mech.

     

    No, I didn't forget that, but maybe in your hurry to flame, you missed it.

    The truth is, you cannot say how fast currency will or will not be earned at launch, as adjustments like that are typically made right up until launch, and none of that changes the fact that you can BUY as much currency as you want.

    And there is every incentive for the company running a so-called "F2P" game to make players use the cash shop as much as possible, or suffer.

    Nor does that change the fact that buffs, new mechs, weapons upgrades, full repairs, and all the rest ARE a significant advantage in gameplay, that you can straight-up buy.

    And that is the heart of it: you can buy significant advantages with real cash, in this PvP-centric game (were this a PvE centered game, no one would care much), which is a huge turn off for me, and many others.

     

     Actually you'll be able to buy chassis with real money but to equip it you'll have to play and save up.  Its not in any way play to win but you are right.  You shouldn't play it.

     

  • AladranAladran Longueuil, QCPosts: 1Member

    Define Pay to Win, because, here you definitely don't have to pay to win...

    All what paying will give you is an XP or Credit Boost, Plus you can also buy some MC (In game money) Which is used to unlock mech (if you are too impatient to buy them with credits) or to unlock more MechLab thing, alternate Decals or other stuff.

     

    But in MWO, Skills are even more important that gear, so a non paying skilled player wil totally dominate a noob that just bought a Mech with his own money.

     

    And be prepare for that kind of systeme because lots of game or going in that way, free to play. Pay if you want to: Encourage the Dev team to continue (yep developping a game cost money, and since the game is free, they need an income from some where),  Don't to wait for a Mech, you have many days off and want to play a lot (pay for an XP / Cred boost).

     

    And why do you complain about paying a little 15 or 20 buck for a game you enjoy, while you'll go waste even more for, Beer, Bars, Movies, etc...that will not last more than few hours ;)

     

     

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