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Dont come back yet: Cross Realm Zones (CRZ)

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  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    it's like players don't remember the rush of 24 hour open world PvP we had back then with TM vs. SS.

    That's because most players wernt around pre 1.5 to appreciate open world pvp at its finest.

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  • JenosydeJenosyde belzoni, MSPosts: 100Member Uncommon
    There next bg should be tarren mill and southshore since we will clearly never see that again
  • Xstatic912Xstatic912 New York, NYPosts: 365Member

    I personally love the thing.. Here's why

     

     WoW have far too long have there outdoor area feeling empty and not alive... and as such most of the person playing have grown to love such feeling {a vast land for me to explore uninterrupted, with the sense of no one to bother you..)  That goes against what mmo feel blizzard was aiming for when they made WoW.. This tech wasn't needed back then as the WoW engine couldn't handle it and there was no need for it because most person where out in the world etc etc..

      Fast forward to present day.. What has the majority of wow population come to do? They all hit max level then just sit in captial cities looking for group etc, with only a few going out to do dailies.. 

      CRZ was implemented to give the outside unpopulated zone that feeling of being alive again, it wasn't implemented in hoping person would form group and quest together (they can do that if there choose to)..  If a zone is populated on which ever server you play CRZ doesn't affect that zone to that simple...  

     Now for persons moving to low popluation servers with the hope of better farming and a better chance to get rares etc, CRZ will affect that but try to remember its an mmo and as such you should expect competition on any level weather its picking nodes or plants..

     On my Pvp server (SpineBreaker) im very glad to see WOrld pvp rising again.. Nagrand where 85's have no point being was hectic this past week, Person leveling and all got dragged into it..

     Yes the system isn't perfect, but its doing what it was meant to for the most part.. letting the world seem alive.. Im sure Blizzard saw all this before releasing it but they have stated they intended on the horde and alliance war to heat up and CRZ is a way to get person angry at the other faction (and at blizzard no less)..  

     CRZ won't cause major drop in sub but a few will leave and bliizard was willing to risk that to let there vision and tech get a chance... Heck, on my server they were pissed at first but once most on the server started saying your on a PVP server, tought it out or ask for help, then most seem to be coming out of there soft comfort zone they have been stuck in since BG & LFD was implemented...

     

    PS.. To ease the node and plant picking, blizzard has increased the spawn rate of these nodes/plants...

  • NemajnebNemajneb Joppatowne, MDPosts: 12Member
    Originally posted by Wicoa

    They have implemented a technology that allows 5 servers or more to share 1 zone.  So when you exit your city and enter the starter zone instead of being able to duel properly or gather at the main town with friends.  You will be placed in a zone with 5 other servers.

    At the least trying to gather is very difficult low levels levelling their professions have no chance against the 85s of all the other servers.  At the most pvp gankers have ganged up together from different realms and are exploiting every weakness they can, right now you will not be able to level on a pvp server, you can forget it.  Griefers are causing mayhem.  There is also lag and the world is not seamless.

    This has hurt low pop realms even more as they cant even produce things for their AH everything goes back to single server structure, including guilds.  So you can meet someone and make a friend and then never see them again.

    I am against it, I think its a terrible feature. I advise anyone who wants to start  the game from scratch to stay away for a while with MOP about to launch the problems are going to be compounded.

    I would like to add if this feature was in a group levelling game like city of heroes then it could possibly work well.  In a single player self sufficient levelling mmorpg it sucks balls.

    This is going to make levelling a monk or your new panda class  the normal way a little tricky to say the least and gives those who have bought a 2nd account to grant levels an even better advantage which I find disgusting.

    The forums have exploded in the US and EU regarding this. I am not hyperboling and I am not a special snowflake many people are upset, I want to carry on playing my game and hope they put in a feature to switch it off.

    This post about this subject is on the MMORPG.com MOP forums http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/792/view/forums/thread/355733/CrossRealm-zones-Another-Blizzard-fail.html

    My post is about warning folks, if I wanted to come back right now and I wasn't already subscribed I myself would like to be warned.

    Instead of a "world" feeling you are forced into what seems like a bad asian f2p game that is instanced and you have no choice of your "world" server.  But you pay a subscription.

     

     

     

    I don't understand this, don't join a pvp server?

  • Xstatic912Xstatic912 New York, NYPosts: 365Member
    Originally posted by Jenosyde
    There next bg should be tarren mill and southshore since we will clearly never see that again

    LOL, just as you said that we had a barrens (whats left of it) battle yesterday.. It like person are trying to re-live what they enjoyed in Vanilla...

  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Fresno, CAPosts: 615Member

    They would avoid 99% of the complaints/issues/lost subs against CRZ if they'd only apply CRZ ro PvP realms, since PvP'ers are really just about the only ones who enjoy it.

    But they won't, so enjoy the turmoil. I expect the road ahead to get bumpier because of this crap.

     

    Edit: Or they could just merge the servers instead of thinking people are too stupid to realize that's what CRZ is trying to hide.

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  • expressoexpresso mePosts: 2,183Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

    They would avoid 99% of the complaints/issues/lost subs against CRZ if they'd only apply CRZ ro PvP realms, since PvP'ers are really just about the only ones who enjoy it.

    Why not make PvE servers 1 player only? 

    But they won't, so enjoy the turmoil. I expect the road ahead to get bumpier because of this crap.

     Yes how dare a dev try and make their game better, how dare they!

    Edit: Or they could just merge the servers instead of thinking people are too stupid to realize that's what CRZ is trying to hide.

     

      

    You've not really thought about that have you?

     

     

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member
    Originally posted by expresso
    Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

    They would avoid 99% of the complaints/issues/lost subs against CRZ if they'd only apply CRZ ro PvP realms, since PvP'ers are really just about the only ones who enjoy it.

    Why not make PvE servers 1 player only? 

    But they won't, so enjoy the turmoil. I expect the road ahead to get bumpier because of this crap.

     Yes how dare a dev try and make their game better, how dare they!

    Edit: Or they could just merge the servers instead of thinking people are too stupid to realize that's what CRZ is trying to hide.

     

      

    You've not really thought about that have you?

     

     

    Hee hee, good points Expresso. I actually like having some people around now. It really was a ghost town in most places. Sure I might have peace picking flowers or killing a quickly spawning quest mob, but it was not really fun to play by myself all the time. There were no groups going for group content. Yes, maybe I can solo most it, but it is funner in a group.

    But in the case of my server cluster, it really is only one or two people. It is still pretty much low population, even when I play at a more friendly hour for the US East Coast. I am not complaining, just noting... I knew what I was getting into when I got the US version of the game. So the vast droves of angry people picking flowers and mining all the nodes has not really happened on all clusters.

    I am on a PvE server but I might roll on a PvP server as well because the world PvP was what I liked in old WoW.

    What I hope Blizzard implements is some way to befriend people on other servers, heck maybe even be able to guild up with them. The company needs to acknowledge that social games require friendships and right now it is very hard to build friendships between servers. I met some really nice folks in PuGs that I would have loved to team up with on a more consistant basis but couldn't because they were not on my server. Such a shame.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • krakra70krakra70 karakas, IDPosts: 122Member
    This feature alone is about to bring me back to azeroth after almost 2 years of inactivity. Active world PvP, people everywhere, no more playing a single player game, possible wintergrasp and tol barad ressurection, kicking players off flying mounts, world bosses. If it is as good as it sounds this might actually be WoW's best expansion.
  • eldariseldaris LondonPosts: 349Member


    Originally posted by Nitth
    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    it's like players don't remember the rush of 24 hour open world PvP we had back then with TM vs. SS.

    That's because most players wernt around pre 1.5 to appreciate open world pvp at its finest.


    That was the best part from original WOW, Southshore vs Taren Mill battles going until 4-5 in the morning together with players raids on enemy towns or camps,not only on pvp servers but on pve ones too.
    Now no one seems to care about this,just interested in raiding same dungeons or grinding old bgs.If crz can bring back part of that feeling back ,then I hope blizz keeps it and don't change it because some people think they should have all ore nodes for them.

  • SeshLowSeshLow NürnbergPosts: 2Member

    What people fail to see is, that this is NOT really bringing back the social aspect of WoW. At least, not in a proper way.

    I couldn't care less about gankers on PvP-realms or people "stealing" my nodes and mobs. Heck, I'd even like that. The problem is: The social aspect of an MMORPG is heavily connected to some sort of community. Gankers will be hunted, lootstealers will be blacklisted, unfriendly people will be avoided, friendly players will be liked and good players will be sought after by groups, guilds and raids. Back in the good old days (not just EQ etc, but also Vanilla WoW & BC), you just KNEW the people on your server. You knew who was really good at pvp, you had a list of great tanks and healers you could ask for groups and raids, you made friends while leveling and you could just hang out with them afterwards or go do other quests.

    With CRZ this sense of community is mainly lost. Sure, you can still make friends and add them to your Blizzard-ID-friends-list. But the chances of meeting them in an instance of some zone or your capital city are slim. Gankers and lootstealers couldn't care less about their reputation, as they most likely never meet the same person twice. And even if they do, they can't be blacklisted in a whole cluster of servers. The same issues I have with the dungeon finder btw. Sure, it takes longer to form a group by hand and then voyage to the dungeon, but it felt way more social. I think in all of Cataclysm I had maybe six people answer me in a random group at ALL. Aside of the obligatory "Hello" and "Bye" of course.

    So, to make the world more populated AND social, I think Blizzard would have to do the following:

    1. Get rid of the dungeonfinder. Maybe replace it with a LFG-Tool, that sends you names of people LFG as well. So you can whisper them, then form a group, then visit the dungeon. Instead of porting everyone there magically.

    2. Merge low-pop-servers. Yeah, I know. It's "bad" PR, but it's the best solution for the playerbase.

    3. Add stuff to do in old zones for players of ALL levels. Be it some fishing contest, rare creatures to tame, stuff like the Pandaria-farm, zone-specific tradeskill-items, open-PvP-areas, long world-wide quest lines for mounts & pets,heroic modes of low level dungeons or rare mobs that drop fun items, which are even useful for high levels. All of these would lead to people venturing through the world.

    4. Re-Add group quests. Don't make them count for any achievements maybe, so anti-social people don't whine, but add them. They don't have to lead to other quests, as well.

    5. Make leveling last longer, open up new character slots -> more people might twink, and they stay longer in the low-level-zones.

     

    TL;DR: I like cats.

  • thanoskkkthanoskkk AthensPosts: 229Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by expresso
    Originally posted by Wicoa
    Coming from my perspective the majority are negative very few positive, including from people I speak to ingame, in my guild and viewing the forums.

    People will yell when they're not happy and say nothing when they are, a vocal loud minority on a forum is not an indication of the overall player base.

    So true.

    He that lives upon Hope dies farting.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    I think the only legitimate complaint here is the PvP flagging, but only if people are being flagged on PvE servers.

    The other stuff though...it's just people who want to play the game outside of the game's design. However, it's something Blizzard might want to consider. "Private" crafting resources in GW2 seem to be a big hit. Not sure Blizzard can implement that, but it's something they might want to consider.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • ZezdaZezda Posts: 685Member Uncommon

    I wonder if anyone stopped to think about the fact that multiple servers are now sharing the same resources (gathering) even though the auction houses are seperate.

    That reason, right there, in itself is enough for blizzard to shelve CRZ until they patch the stuff it's going to mess with. Basically you are going to have the same amount of gatherable resources now split across multiple servers.. gg economy.

  • MrTastixMrTastix AucklandPosts: 2Member

    Not sure if this was posted yet but here's some decent reasons why CRZ can be bad:

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6521292325

    But that's not why I made an account to respond, I made one to educate people on the confusion of a "vocal minority".

     

    Vocal minorities, as some of us know, are a group of people who all share an opinion that is not widely shared by their peers. That is to say that if Group A of 10 people complain about something and Group B of 100 people say it's fine, then Group A is the minority group.

    If they're the vocal minority then they're a minority group that also happens to thrust their opinion quite openly in the public eye, as is the case with most complaints on an MMO forum.

    The thing that should be noted, however, is that whilst many complaint groups on the WoW forums are indeed the minority, that doesn't mean they're wrong. Being apart of the minority group means your views are either not shared or not known by the general populace, but that does not mean they're wrong.

    Many of the arguments against CRZ are extremely valid, from gameplay and immersion issues to just general faults and bugs. They might only be shared by a very minor part of the entire WoW population but their arguments are valid, none the less.

    Another very important thing to note is that nearly half (if not over) of the players are Asian based, meaning they not only play different versions of the game (not all parts of Asia get the patches as soon as the US/UK do) but also tend to post on local forums, meaning you can't go around saying "10m players are happy with CRZ!".

    The other issue is that just because someone doesn't complain doesn't mean they don't have a problem with something. I don't voice my opinion on a lot of forums or tell people I have problems with them. According to some of the logic found in this topic that would mean I clearly think CRZ is awesome, when I don't.

     

    Most of the people against CRZ have no big issue with the concept in general, they take issue with how it's currently implemented, which is to say, pretty damn horridly.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by MrTastix

    Another very important thing to note is that nearly half (if not over) of the players are Asian based, meaning they not only play different versions of the game (not all parts of Asia get the patches as soon as the US/UK do) but also tend to post on local forums, meaning you can't go around saying "10m players are happy with CRZ!".

    I'm still waiting for people to show me some figures that demonstrate half of wows subscribers are from Asia.

    They may well be but at the moment it's purely speculative, if you knew the figures then you wouldn't say "if not over" you would state a literal.

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  • MrTastixMrTastix AucklandPosts: 2Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by MrTastix

    Another very important thing to note is that nearly half (if not over) of the players are Asian based, meaning they not only play different versions of the game (not all parts of Asia get the patches as soon as the US/UK do) but also tend to post on local forums, meaning you can't go around saying "10m players are happy with CRZ!".


     

    I'm still waiting for people to show me some figures that demonstrate half of wows subscribers are from Asia.

    They may well be but at the moment it's purely speculative, if you knew the figures then you wouldn't say "if not over" you would state a literal.

    You may be right, of course, but you completely skipped over the meat of my post to pinpoint one thing I may be incorrect about. Think less about one paragraph and more about what I'm arguing as a whole.

    Does this one minor detail completely detract from my point, making it less valid? I don't believe so.

    Even if all ~10 million players reside in the US (which we know isn't true) that still wouldn't devalidate my argument.

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wicoa

    They have implemented a technology that allows 5 servers or more to share 1 zone.  So when you exit your city and enter the starter zone instead of being able to duel properly or gather at the main town with friends.  You will be placed in a zone with 5 other servers.

    At the least trying to gather is very difficult low levels levelling their professions have no chance against the 85s of all the other servers.  At the most pvp gankers have ganged up together from different realms and are exploiting every weakness they can, right now you will not be able to level on a pvp server, you can forget it.  Griefers are causing mayhem.  There is also lag and the world is not seamless.

    This has hurt low pop realms even more as they cant even produce things for their AH everything goes back to single server structure, including guilds.  So you can meet someone and make a friend and then never see them again.

    I am against it, I think its a terrible feature. I advise anyone who wants to start  the game from scratch to stay away for a while with MOP about to launch the problems are going to be compounded.

    I would like to add if this feature was in a group levelling game like city of heroes then it could possibly work well.  In a single player self sufficient levelling mmorpg it sucks balls.

    This is going to make levelling a monk or your new panda class  the normal way a little tricky to say the least and gives those who have bought a 2nd account to grant levels an even better advantage which I find disgusting.

    The forums have exploded in the US and EU regarding this. I am not hyperboling and I am not a special snowflake many people are upset, I want to carry on playing my game and hope they put in a feature to switch it off.

    This post about this subject is on the MMORPG.com MOP forums http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/792/view/forums/thread/355733/CrossRealm-zones-Another-Blizzard-fail.html

    My post is about warning folks, if I wanted to come back right now and I wasn't already subscribed I myself would like to be warned.

    Instead of a "world" feeling you are forced into what seems like a bad asian f2p game that is instanced and you have no choice of your "world" server.  But you pay a subscription.

     

     

     

     

    And BoA gear is still to hard to figure out being able to send across realms on the same account.

     

    Right?

  • FelixMajorFelixMajor London, ONPosts: 576Member

    My only issue with this is there is still all the attached CR bullshit left over from when you do CR dungeons and such.  You can't befriend the people you meet, rarely you will ever see them again and you can't trade items.  If they are going to do this they should do it properly because while I disagree that it feels like an asian mmo, it definitely feels cheap and insulting to a paying subscriber base.

    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  • FelixMajorFelixMajor London, ONPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by Zezda

    I wonder if anyone stopped to think about the fact that multiple servers are now sharing the same resources (gathering) even though the auction houses are seperate.

    That reason, right there, in itself is enough for blizzard to shelve CRZ until they patch the stuff it's going to mess with. Basically you are going to have the same amount of gatherable resources now split across multiple servers.. gg economy.

    Yeah, you can tell they didn't put too much deep thought into this, like I said..it is cheap and insulting to us paying subscribers.

    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  • FullmoonfeverFullmoonfever Mineola, TXPosts: 5Member
    Pretty much solo players and farmers hate it,but people who like to group up and do group things are loving it especially those altaholics out there actually see people running around the only thing I have against it is I will most certainly never EVER have a chance at the Time-Lost Proto Drake now:P
  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member

    I'll add my 2 cents, which I originally posted as a reply to this article

     

    I haven't played WoW in about 2 and a half years, so I have no idea what the community vibe is like, but I do know 2 things.  First, the vocal portion of gaming communities are critical first and foremost.  There is a tremendous inclination to hone in on the cons of a system while disregarding the pros.  Game companies tend to know this and thus weather the storm of initial backlash, after which said features become generally accepted and well-received.  I'm sure it's a real challenge on the developer's part to discern true critical feedback from hasty mob hyperbole.  From the objective outsider's perspective, there is some easily identifiable hyperbole in your own post, such as saying, "CRZ solves none of the problems of a low population server while introducing the overcrowding of a high pop server."  The goal is obviously not to overcrowd underpopulated zones, but to populate them. If some zones do feel a bit crowded, the level of population can always be tweaked until it reaches a healthy level.  

    Second, from the objective outsider's perspective, this system does undeniably have some real benefits.  For one, it can help put the "massive" back into the MMO during the leveling experience.  Last I Played, even on a high pop server, I would run into one person every 10 levels or so.  Combined with phasing, leveling in WoW became a very solo experience.  This can help alleviate that.  This is also a *step* toward making the leveling experience more social.  If you wish to enjoy a quiet time questing alone without talking to anyone, you should still be able to do so, but it will no longer be forced upon those who would prefer otherwise.  

    I think concerns about negative community behavior are originated from many of WoW's other competition-oriented systems, not the CRZ.  Though it's likely true that the increased population of each zone due to the CRZs has made the social griefing problems inherent in WoW's other systems more prevalent.  WoW's node system allows for stealing.  Mob kills are only credited to the person who first tags them.  Open world PvP allows higher level players in all their increased statistical might to venture through low level zones and prey upon helpless lowbies.  Every one of these can be made more user friendly on their own.  Nodes can be individually spawned instead of shared and stealable.  Players can be encouraged to help other players kill mobs already tagged by being rewarded for those kills themselves with credit.  This can extend to quest mobs that have quest drops.  Make quest drops individual instead of shared and split among group members (one mob drops a quest reward, everyone can loot it.)  This way instead of thinking, "Oh man, I'll never get this quest done..." when you see a bunch of *friendly* players at your quest hub, you'll start to think, "Nice, this will be a breeze with all these players around!"  And lastly, I'd personally suggest a down-leveling/down-scaling feature when higher level players enter lower level zones.  I love open world PvP.  I love when the adrenaline gets pumping when you see a member of the opposite faction questing alongside you.  And I love when those fair fights break out.  Same-level ganks and counter ganks.  Coordination and communication with other players questing through the zone to help combat the enemy faction can provide an intriguing mini-game and be a nice change of pace from the standard quest grind.  But having high levels come in and one-shot camp lowbies does nothing to increase the fun and thrill of open world pvp for anyone, in my opinion.  If someone can enlighten me, please do so!

    Until these problems grounded in player competition are converted into cooperation, I'd expect to see more of the griefing people are talking about.  The CRZ does nothing to promote this kind of griefing (I don't even think the concern about added anonymity is apt--players could always act however they please during the leveling process, certain they would never run into anyone they encounter again, especially concerning lowbie camping); it just makes it more prevalent due to consistently more player encounters.

    Of the criticisms of the CRZ, the one that does strike me as plausible is the lack of *meaningful* community building.  Surrounding you with players that you cannot befriend and group up with again or join guilds with may actually discourage communication.  This is a criticism I had for the dungeon finder as well, or at least the cross realm grouping aspect of it.  I got along quite well with some of my initial group members, but that was that.  We were doomed to never see each other again.  I think players quickly realized this and stopped caring about trying to form positive relationships in groups.  All that was left were the asshats who reveled in making people miserable.  Instead of randomized positive and negative player interactions, almost all positive interactions vanished while the negative ones remained.  Soon, if you were lucky, you'd get that neutral silent group who didn't give anyone shit.  Very unfortunate.  

    I think back to moments where I've made some of my greatest MMO friends and joined my favorite guilds, and I can confidently say that in today's WoW environment, those moments would never have came to pass.  And that's sad. I do think there are ways WoW can promote community building and friendly player interactions in cross realm dungeons and zones, but they would involve some sacrifices on Blizzard's part. 

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by FelixMajor
    Originally posted by Zezda

    I wonder if anyone stopped to think about the fact that multiple servers are now sharing the same resources (gathering) even though the auction houses are seperate.

    That reason, right there, in itself is enough for blizzard to shelve CRZ until they patch the stuff it's going to mess with. Basically you are going to have the same amount of gatherable resources now split across multiple servers.. gg economy.

    Yeah, you can tell they didn't put too much deep thought into this, like I said..it is cheap and insulting to us paying subscribers.

    I came back under a Res Scroll, went out to Hjyal on my space goat mage to herb, realized I was in a bird aviary with all the druids and left the game.

  • MikkelBMikkelB SteenwijkPosts: 240Member
    Originally posted by FelixMajor
    Originally posted by Zezda

    I wonder if anyone stopped to think about the fact that multiple servers are now sharing the same resources (gathering) even though the auction houses are seperate.

    That reason, right there, in itself is enough for blizzard to shelve CRZ until they patch the stuff it's going to mess with. Basically you are going to have the same amount of gatherable resources now split across multiple servers.. gg economy.

    Yeah, you can tell they didn't put too much deep thought into this, like I said..it is cheap and insulting to us paying subscribers.

    Since the implementation of the CRZ, prizes at my server (EU-Stormreaver) of the basic materials (ore, leather and cloth) haven't deviated much from before the CRZ. Low level materials are still overpriced and fluctuate daily. The high level materials don't even matter, because Pandaria isn't included in the CRZ.

    Asides from the bugs, the CRZ is a good thing. Low level zones feel more populated, plus I like it to group up with strangers. To the people who say that grouping isn't necessary because the content is "way to easy", what do you think that I did before 2.3 (when leveling was made easier)? I followed a guide, called "Jame's Horde/Alliance leveling guide". It was pretty much the best solo leveling guide from 1-70. No need for grouping, because those quests were skipped. Grouping was never necessary, only if you wanted to do specific quests.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by MrTastix

    Originally posted by Nitth  

    Originally posted by MrTastix Another very important thing to note is that nearly half (if not over) of the players are Asian based, meaning they not only play different versions of the game (not all parts of Asia get the patches as soon as the US/UK do) but also tend to post on local forums, meaning you can't go around saying "10m players are happy with CRZ!".
      I'm still waiting for people to show me some figures that demonstrate half of wows subscribers are from Asia. They may well be but at the moment it's purely speculative, if you knew the figures then you wouldn't say "if not over" you would state a literal.
    You may be right, of course, but you completely skipped over the meat of my post to pinpoint one thing I may be incorrect about. Think less about one paragraph and more about what I'm arguing as a whole.

    Does this one minor detail completely detract from my point, making it less valid? I don't believe so.

    Even if all ~10 million players reside in the US (which we know isn't true) that still wouldn't devalidate my argument.


    Your argument or "education" has a whole paragraph that is not factually correct, or cannot be validated. I'm sorry you cant mix fact and fiction and say "Im going to educate you".

    How can i validate the integrity on other points if the point in question not grounded in fact?

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